Serious [Wikipedia article] Northern and Southern China

[nightsafari]

in the south, chinks call themselves “t’ang” people, not “han”. in guangzhou or cantoland, it’s “tong” as in tong yan. in fuckien and teochew enclaves, it’s teng and some say tang as in tang nan. no where was “han” proudly accepted as the han dynasty hardly ventured south in governance and assimilation. the t’ang dynasty, however, established commanderies and provincial capitals and townships down south to the viet border. and t’ang was followed by the song. some of the greatest ports of trade in the world at that time were in southern provinces, of whom auntie (vir)gin’s ancestors came from. marine merchants from as far as the persian gulf and indian ocean came a calling. languages and dialects in the south were more attuned to t’ang‘s way of speech and writing than those which were bastardized by mongol and manchu barbarians. literature and poetic parlance flourished, and their styles were retained in the south much more deeply than the north as books were burned and scholars massacred in succeeding civil wars and invasions in the northern half of china. the middle imperial tongue of the t’ang and song courts were lost as survivors found refuge in the rugged terrain of southern china. but the chink psyche identifying themselves with t’ang and t’ang art, culture, literature continue in the south to this day. and the more t’ang-educated ones escaped china and maintained verbal and literary traditions in clan associations in south east asia, especially sg. if you attend a deep dive session in a clan association meeting, you’ll be amazed at the amount and depth of the oral tradition that survives centuries of wars and cultural purges in china. even jap scholars are amazed with the rich cultural and literary tradition that is kept in clan associations in sg.

and one that we hope that can be kept alive from the marauders bent on destroying and re-writing Chinese history. that was very eloquently written.

I never heard teng before. Will add it to my database.

 

[Hypocrite-The]

Basically draw a line. Northern half is half breed Mongolians and barbarian descendants. Southern half is pure blood Hakkas and half breed Min and Yue (Hokkien and Cantonese) and Chinese Imperial exiles.

you believe so too empathy?

The ChiCons always said cantos are not tiongs...so that gives the cantos legitimacy in being independent...as it's has its own race, own culture, own language

 

[eatshitndie]

and one that we hope that can be kept alive from the marauders bent on destroying and re-writing Chinese history. that was very eloquently written.

I never heard teng before. Will add it to my database.

correction. it's tng and not so much teng.

 

[nightsafari]

The ChiCons always said cantos are not tiongs...so that gives the cantos legitimacy in being independent...as it's has its own race, own culture, own language

If you actually follow history, the Vietnamese and Cantos have always been very independent. There was no dependency or authoritarian rule. Those that tried it regretted it. You can even see it today with the failed French and US occupation attempts. This tendency is not something that came out of nowhere. It's literally been there for thousands of years. Cantos are Vietnamese who chose to became sinicized. Hokkiens too, but they chose to blend in even more.

but the truth is back before the Mongolians came in and tried to "unite" China, there were a lot of unique races, cultures and languages.

 

[nightsafari]

correction. it's tng and not so much teng.

ah... thanks. never heard teng before...

made me think of Theresa Teng!!

 

[eatshitndie]

and one that we hope that can be kept alive from the marauders bent on destroying and re-writing Chinese history. that was very eloquently written.

I never heard teng before. Will add it to my database.

this post written a long time ago (august 30, 2010) summarizes what i've said about hakkas and the lost language of "middle chinese".

so called hakka chinese is a linguistic window to "middle chinese" which was the official archaic chinese language spoken in sui, tang, and song dynasties. when mongols conquered china, old mandarin was forced upon many parts of china, but southern enclaves of refugees and survivors from older chinese dynasties retained much of the original xi-an and lo-yang tongues (mostly shaanxi and henan) and southern dialects. over the centuries, middle chinese disappeared and/or it merged with southern dialects and blended into obscurity. today, there are various offshoots of hakka: for example taiwanese, fujian, guangdong, guangxi, guizhou, sichuan, and hunan. this proves that hakka was a widespread language spoken in a huge geographical part of china, mainly in the south because the north and northeast were overrun by mongols and manchus respectively separated by five hundred years of devastation. the manchus, in the qing dynasty, was responsible for the propagation of mandarin, which was the main beijing dialect, to the rest of remote china including the south. beijing was the capital of the mongols under the yuan dynasty.

if you're good with linguistics in the study of consonants and vowels and tones, you'll notice that hakka is mutually unintelligible from mandarin but is closer in many pronunciations to middle chinese. also check up the rhyme books of tang. rhymes are secret codes to breaking the language mystery.

hakka is a real survivor and descendant of the true ancient chinese language and should be taught and preserved, although the hakka of today is a far cry from the language spoken by the first survivors of sui, tang and song. mandarin is a bastardized language of invaders, traitors, arse lickers, lackeys and cowards under the mongol and manchu yoke. and hakka shouldn't be called hakka or kejia. it's a fucking shame that the original people of china are called "guests". it should be called fak-yu.

 

[Hypocrite-The]

correction. it's tng and not so much teng.

Actually ever since I was born.. I always hear the term Tong...as reference to chinese ppl....only later in school n during the speak Northern language campaign than I hear the term Hua....I believe that the latter term is an illegitimate reference to mean Chinese. Probably a chicon invention. Northerners would use the term Han....before this hua term came about

 

[nightsafari]

this post written a long time ago summarizes what i've said about hakkas and the lost language of "middle chinese".

omg... if only I read it before. Could've saved me tons of my own digging. As I've said before, I just listen and learn...

 

[syed putra]

I joke that their horses don't like hills.

Previously, the great wall did not cover the hills.
At the battle of " badgers mouth", part of the mongol archers climbed the hills and attacked from the rear.

 

[nightsafari]

Actually ever since I was born.. I always hear the term Tong...as reference to chinese ppl....only later in school n during the speak Northern language campaign than I hear the term Hua....I believe that the latter term is an illegitimate reference to mean Chinese. Probably a chicon invention. Northerners would use the term Han....before this hua term came about

Don't you find it incredible that 1000 years after the Tang dynasty was overrun that people still identify with it?

 

[nightsafari]

Previously, the great wall did not cover the hills.
At the battle of " badgers mouth", part of the mongol archers climbed the hills and attacked from the rear.

Yah... I don't even know which was the original anymore...

 

[nightsafari]

this post written a long time ago (august 30, 2010) summarizes what i've said about hakkas and the lost language of "middle chinese".

acai... anyway to preserve that post or link to it? Will save me a lot writing if I ever need to explain it again.

 

[eatshitndie]

omg... if only I read it before. Could've saved me tons of my own digging. As I've said before, I just listen and learn...

 

[nightsafari]

this post written a long time ago (august 30, 2010) summarizes what i've said about hakkas and the lost language of "middle chinese".

ah.. just saw the date. 2010 I didn't even know what sammyboy was about...

 

[Hypocrite-The]

If you actually follow history, the Vietnamese and Cantos have always been very independent. There was no dependency or authoritarian rule. Those that tried it regretted it. You can even see it today with the failed French and US occupation attempts. This tendency is not something that came out of nowhere. It's literally been there for thousands of years. Cantos are Vietnamese who chose to became sinicized. Hokkiens too, but they chose to blend in even more.

but the truth is back before the Mongolians came in and tried to "unite" China, there were a lot of unique races, cultures and languages.

I doubt viets and cantos are the same. Viet language has very few ...too few in fact to even b classified as similar. The confusion comes about is a lot of the Cina in Vietnam are Cantos...n they of course settle in D5 in Saigon. In Hanoi the cinas were repatriated back to chicon land in the 79 war. In the 75 war ....heaps of Cina viets left after the fall of the south. Another aspect of the similarities is that Viet religion (Buddhism and Taoism) n culture or rule (Confucianism, ) was inherited from Tiong land...so that is why many see it similar to Cantos...but the Viet language is very different..n why viets know canto is because the intermarriage and trade n political links..but all in all they are different.

 

[Hypocrite-The]

Don't you find it incredible that 1000 years after the Tang dynasty was overrun that people still identify with it?

Because Tiong land proper is a bit North..and because of barbarian invasions...the exiles move south...and canton during the tang was already a world crass enterpot city...so since they were conquered last..they have a stronger connection to the previous dynasty..and the Tang dynasty was tiongland true Golden age..so there is reminisce...like a lot of old farts in singkie land reminisce of dead farts rule

 

[nightsafari]

I doubt viets and cantos are the same. Viet language has very few ...too few in fact to even b classified as similar. The confusion comes about is a lot of the Cina in Vietnam are Cantos...n they of course settle in D5 in Saigon. In Hanoi the cinas were repatriated back to chicon land in the 79 war. In the 75 war ....heaps of Cina viets left after the fall of the south. Another aspect of the similarities is that Viet religion (Buddhism and Taoism) n culture or rule (Confucianism, ) was inherited from Tiong land...so that is why many see it similar to Cantos...but the Viet language is very different..n why viets know canto is because the intermarriage and trade n political links..but all in all they are different.

from wikipedia :

The Baiyue (Chinese: 百越), Hundred Yue, or simply Yue, were various ethnic groups who inhabited the regions of South China and Northern Vietnam during the 1st millennium BC and 1st millennium AD.[1][2][3][4][5][6][7] They were known for their short hair, body tattoos, fine swords, and naval prowess.

During the Warring States period, the word "Yue" referred to the State of Yue in Zhejiang. The later kingdoms of Minyue in Fujian and Nanyue in Guangdong were both considered Yue states. Meacham (1996:93) notes that, during the Zhou and Han dynasties, the Yue lived in a vast territory from Jiangsu to Yunnan,[6] while Barlow (1997:2) indicates that the Luoyue occupied the southwest Guangxi and northern Vietnam.[8] The Book of Han describes the various Yue tribes and peoples can be found from the regions of Kuaiji to Jiaozhi.[9]

The Yue tribes were gradually displaced or assimilated into Chinese culture as the Han empire expanded into what is now Southern China and Northern Vietnam.[10][11][12][13][14] Many modern southern Chinese dialects or those within Lingnan region bear traces of substrate languages[citation needed] originally spoken by the ancient Yue. Variations of the name are still used for the name of modern Vietnam, in Zhejiang-related names including Yue opera, the Yue Chinese language, and in the abbreviation for Guangdong.

interpret as you see fit.

 

[nightsafari]

Because Tiong land proper is a bit North..and because of barbarian invasions...the exiles move south...and canton during the tang was already a world crass enterpot city...so since they were conquered last..they have a stronger connection to the previous dynasty..and the Tang dynasty was tiongland true Golden age..so there is reminisce...like a lot of old farts in singkie land reminisce of dead farts rule

well, I think it's good not to forget it. don't you think you can argue they were never conquered?

 

[eatshitndie]

this video is sextremely scholarly and encapsulates the complicated search for "middle chinese". ironic that it took a swede to help uncover the mystery of middle chinese.

 

[nightsafari]

this video is sextremely scholarly and encapsulates the complicated search for "middle chinese". ironic that it took a swede to help uncover the mystery of middle chinese.

maybe sam is right. Angmoh da best! Even so much Malay scholarship came from angmoh...