Serious [Wikipedia article] Northern and Southern China

[empathizerofeatshitndie]

Dear @glockman, many thanks for liking six of my posts in this thread earlier this morning!

 

[Hypocrite-The]

That's an unfortunate correlation. In parts of Malaysia which are majority Cantonese like KL and JB, they've also turned to Mandarin by default. When I was younger it was Cantonese in those enclaves 100% of the time all the way. Now every Cantonese restaurant or other business I go into is always Mandarin. Always! Only if you insist on speaking in Cantonese do they eventually switch.


As before, I hear this in bolehland too from Cantos. Maybe even more so. I can't prove 100% they're worse but my experience tells me so.


That is simply shameful. Nothing more to be said. Eliminating diversity is a tyrant's mandate.

Singapore is not entirely Hokkien. Teochew, Hakka as well. The entire populace is largely made up of PLPs. That's just how populations work. Your inference regarding Hokkiens could be just a matter of correlation and frequency of contact. i.e. living in singapore, you're going to run into PLPs just that more of them are Hokkien. I point out that Taiwan is largely anti-Chicon but is majority Hokkien. Also despite your experiences there is a stronger anti-chicon element in Singapore than Malaysia which is more Canto. In Malaysia, almost everybody is more pro-chicon. I find myself alone in Malaysia with these opinions.

But one thing that disappoints me is that Cantos in Malaysia do not seem to be share the pain of persecution their Canto brothers in HK experience and still support chicons.

The singkie cina popn is the majority. N they always talk about the big 3 cina groups which is fuckein, fuckchew n Canto. The issue is all other groups combine is still outnumbered by the fuckeins. N cina is 75%of the popn means fuckeins is nearly 50% if the popn. Tat explains the attitude of singkies when it comes to voting.

Regarding the cantos in mudland. I bet the canto speakers are actually fuckkas. Remember fuckkas are the enemies within. They speak canto is not to b identified as one. Remember fuckkas are the cina gypsies..so to avoid being ostracised have to try n blend in. Now tat. ChiCon land is on the rise...they sure will defect n collaborate with the chicons

 

[nightsafari]

The singkie cina popn is the majority. N they always talk about the big 3 cina groups which is fuckein, fuckchew n Canto. The issue is all other groups combine is still outnumbered by the fuckeins. N cina is 75%of the popn means fuckeins is nearly 50% if the popn. Tat explains the attitude of singkies when it comes to voting.

Regarding the cantos in mudland. I bet the canto speakers are actually fuckkas. Remember fuckkas are the enemies within. They speak canto is not to b identified as one. Remember fuckkas are the cina gypsies..so to avoid being ostracised have to try n blend in. Now tat. ChiCon land is on the rise...they sure will defect n collaborate with the chicons

I think you're missing the point I'm making. A lot of people willing to sell themselves in every country. You may think that Hokkiens are sellouts because you just see more of them in sinkieland.

As for malaysia, I know about the many Hakkas. In fact they should have the most reason not to learn Mandarin. It was the Mandarins who drove them out of their homeland and made them gypsies. I've personally confirmed it with the cantos I know in JB and KL. Although Cantos speak to each other in Cantonese, once doing business with the public they switch automatically to Mandarin. I've also challenged them about this and the answer is why challenge it? Go with it and it makes Chinese stronger.

So bottom line is there are sellouts everywhere. Even in HK! No reason to single out other groups who are in the same position as yours. Makes all of us weaker and distracts us from the main problem. Unless of course, you've already given up and need to pin the blame on someone...

 

[nightsafari]

dynastic hakkas were hiding in the hills in southern china after getting run over by northern barbarians. they were great fortress builders and remain so as they wall themselves in in chink communities throughout south east asia.
View attachment 130744

hakkas in sg continue to wall themselves in and live in bunker homes.
View attachment 130745
View attachment 130746
View attachment 130747
View attachment 130748

To think their fortress building mentality against the barbarians migrated with them. They must have had a tough time from the barbarians.

I think I recognize the last house, but who do the others belong to?

 

[Hypocrite-The]

I think you're missing the point I'm making. A lot of people willing to sell themselves in every country. You may think that Hokkiens are sellouts because you just see more of them in sinkieland.

As for malaysia, I know about the many Hakkas. In fact they should have the most reason not to learn Mandarin. It was the Mandarins who drove them out of their homeland and made them gypsies. I've personally confirmed it with the cantos I know in JB and KL. Although Cantos speak to each other in Cantonese, once doing business with the public they switch automatically to Mandarin. I've also challenged them about this and the answer is why challenge it? Go with it and it makes Chinese stronger.

So bottom line is there are sellouts everywhere. Even in HK! No reason to single out other groups who are in the same position as yours. Makes all of us weaker and distracts us from the main problem. Unless of course, you've already given up and need to pin the blame on someone...

The point is, fuckeins n fuckkas due to their language n culture n attitudes makes them better to being sellouts. I never say cantos are not sell outs. Just that fuckeins n fuckkas are better at it. Look at the fuckeins islanders n their attitudes towards chiconland. They say they prefer the status quo. It's like choosing between heaven n hell ...they prefer purgatory. N I bet b4 the invasion even happens they will surrender. N the fuckeins did say they prefer surrendering bcos they can benefit from ChiCon land economic growth. Are they serious? N look at the hongkies. They never had a choice ...the fuckeins do...such attitudes u see in Singkieland as well.

 

[eatshitndie]

To think their fortress building mentality against the barbarians migrated with them. They must have had a tough time from the barbarians.

I think I recognize the last house, but who do the others belong to?

must the clan head’s family fortress.

 

[nightsafari]

The point is, fuckeins n fuckkas due to their language n culture n attitudes makes them better to being sellouts. I never say cantos are not sell outs. Just that fuckeins n fuckkas are better at it. Look at the fuckeins islanders n their attitudes towards chiconland. They say they prefer the status quo. It's like choosing between heaven n hell ...they prefer purgatory. N I bet b4 the invasion even happens they will surrender. N the fuckeins did say they prefer surrendering bcos they can benefit from ChiCon land economic growth. Are they serious? N look at the hongkies. They never had a choice ...the fuckeins do...such attitudes u see in Singkieland as well.

I dunno... I'll accept your opinion.

 

[syed putra]

The fuckchews are the relatives of the fuckeins...n the fuckkas are gypsies who did not have their own lands. So the just stole canto territories..no wonder even fuckeins told my fuckkas are the worst. Nothing but thieves n cheats.

Malays cannot difirentiate between chinese clans. So to them all Chinese are thieves and cheats for taking away malay land.

 

[syed putra]

N look at fuckeins, the make up more than 50% of the singkie popn, but got their school n uni shut down by dead fart n yet they support the mandarin policy. Because they have fucked up on their own culture, they now view the cantos with great jealousy n have sold their souls to the ChiCons. That time plp pap...now plp ChiCons. N now drag n despise the cantos because the cantos have wat they don't. So they want the cantos to be dragged down to their level. The crabs in the pot scenerio. Nothing but jealousy n hate. I am poor u have to be poor with me. Typical fuckein n fuckka attitude. So with such toxic surrounds. It's much better for cantos to be independent.

The hokkien are holding out in taiwan pretty well. Independent.
They were overwhelmed by nationalist forces who brought the mandarin and all that shit from mainland. Even orang asli needed to have mandarin names and forced to speak mandarin.

 

[empathizerofeatshitndie]

is Sun Xueling Hakka too?

Dear @zhihau, because of:
straitstimes.com/politics/pap-introduces-2-new-faces-in-pasir-ris-punggol-team-ex-defence-chief-ng-chee-meng-sun


and:
wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_(surname)


I strongly suspect that "Soon Sher Rene" or:
wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Xueling
is a Hokkien Chinese Sinkie woman!

 

[zhihau]

What’s the Hakka pronounciation of 孫?
Soon?

 

[empathizerofeatshitndie]

What’s the Hakka pronounciation of 孫?
Soon?

Dear @zhihau, I'm afraid I'm not an expert in anything related to the:
wikipedia.org/wiki/Hakka_people
but, believe it or not, because both of my father's late parents were Hakka and spoke to me in Hakka since I was a baby (whereas both of my parents have been speaking to me in English/Singlish nearly all the time), I can understand some Hakka and I remember them telling my other Hakka relatives that I'm their "Soon", so your guess is probably correct!

Also, in my humble opinion, @blackmondy has been telling the truth whenever he said that he's a Hakka; and because I strongly suspect he is at least fifty years old and born in the 1960s (whereas I was born in 1982; yes, believe it or not, I'm now 39 going on 40 later this year!), I believe @blackmondy should be more qualified to answer your question!

 

[blackmondy]

What’s the Hakka pronounciation of 孫?
Soon?

Yes.
Soon zai for boys.
Soon moi for girls.

 

[Hypocrite-The]

sorry my canto not that solid. summary?

The bottom line is Canto is the preserver of middle Chinese...all other cina languages are dialects. N mandarin is a foreigner enforced language. N these others can take a long walk off a short pier.

 

[nightsafari]

The bottom line is Canto is the preserver of middle Chinese...all other cina languages are dialects. N mandarin is a foreigner enforced language. N these others can take a long walk off a short pier.

that's unfortunately not 100% accurate. In history there was no standard Chinese. Even middle Chinese. There were hundreds of languages in the country. Like the EU nowadays. Middle Chinese was a prestige language/dialect during the Tang dynasty before all the foreign barbarians invaded and took over so is the last pure Chinese language/dialect that was used by the ruling elite and so in this regard holds a special place. That's all.

Canton and Cantonese has a past that is inextricably linked with Vietnam and Vietnamese. Check this table out :

Name	Cantonese	Standard Mandarin	Zhuang	Vietnamese	Name	Cantonese	Standard Mandarin	Vietnamese
Personal Name	Reign Period	Reigned From	Other Names
趙佗/趙他	ziu6 taa4	Zhào Tuó	Ciuq Doz	Triệu Đà	武王	mou5 wong4	Wǔ Wáng	Vũ Vương	203–137 BC
趙眜	ziu6 mut6	Zhào Mò	Ciuq Huz	Triệu Mạt	文王	man4 wong4	Wén Wáng	Văn Vương	137–122 BC	趙胡
趙嬰齊	ziu6 jing1 cai4	Zhào Yīngqí	Ciuq Yinghcaez	Triệu Anh Tề	明王	ming4 wong4	Míng Wáng	Minh Vương	122–113 BC
趙興	ziu6 hing1	Zhào Xīng	Ciuq Hingh	Triệu Hưng	哀王	oi1 wong4	Āi Wáng	Ai Vương	113–112 BC
趙建德	ziu6 gin3 dak1	Zhào Jiàndé	Ciuq Gendwz	Triệu Kiến Đức	陽王	joeng4 wong4	Yáng Wáng	Dương Vương	112–111 BC

It is the ruling house of Canton about 100-200BC. Their capital was in Panyu. Qin Shi Huang sent 趙他 to go and conquer these tribes and setup the origin of Canton.

Also this table :

Ancient Yue states or groups

Chinese	Mandarin	Cantonese (Jyutping)	Vietnamese	Literal meaning
於越/于越	Yūyuè	jyu1 jyut6	Ư Việt	Yue by Wuyu (first ruler of Yue)
揚越	Yángyuè	joeng4 jyut6	Dương Việt	Yue of Yangzhou
東甌	Dōng'ōu	dung1 au1	Đông Âu	Eastern Ou
閩越	Mǐnyuè	man5 jyut6	Mân Việt	Yue of Min
夜郎	Yèláng	je6 long4	Dạ Lang
南越	Nányuè	naam4 jyut6	Nam Việt	Southern Yue
山越	Shānyuè	saan1 jyut6	Sơn Việt	Mountain Yue
雒越	Luòyuè	lok6 jyut6	Lạc Việt
甌越	Ōuyuè	au1 jyut6	Âu Việt	Yue of Ou
滇越	Dianyuè	din1 jyut6	Điền Việt	Yue of Dian

the people in Hokkien and Canto were the same as Northern Vietnamese. It can be said that the Qins came in and annexed them without warfare. The difference is that Cantos kept some of their original language. By comparison, the Minyue did not sinicize until the Tang dynasty and adopted Middle Chinese by then. It could be because there was a huge influx of Tang imperials who fled there hence Hokkien is more Middle Chinese inspired. whereas it would be more accurate to say that Cantonese retains some of its Vietnamese/Baiyue roots.

I could reproduce another table here reflecting the commonalities between Middle Chinese, Hokkien, Korean and Japanese, but I think that's too much.

But one this you said is 100% accurate is that Mandarin is a 100% foreigner enforced language.

 

[Hypocrite-The]

that's unfortunately not 100% accurate. In history there was no standard Chinese. Even middle Chinese. There were hundreds of languages in the country. Like the EU nowadays. Middle Chinese was a prestige language/dialect during the Tang dynasty before all the foreign barbarians invaded and took over so is the last pure Chinese language/dialect that was used by the ruling elite and so in this regard holds a special place. That's all.

Canton and Cantonese has a past that is inextricably linked with Vietnam and Vietnamese. Check this table out :

Name	Cantonese	Standard Mandarin	Zhuang	Vietnamese	Name	Cantonese	Standard Mandarin	Vietnamese
Personal Name	Reign Period	Reigned From	Other Names
趙佗/趙他	ziu6 taa4	Zhào Tuó	Ciuq Doz	Triệu Đà	武王	mou5 wong4	Wǔ Wáng	Vũ Vương	203–137 BC
趙眜	ziu6 mut6	Zhào Mò	Ciuq Huz	Triệu Mạt	文王	man4 wong4	Wén Wáng	Văn Vương	137–122 BC	趙胡
趙嬰齊	ziu6 jing1 cai4	Zhào Yīngqí	Ciuq Yinghcaez	Triệu Anh Tề	明王	ming4 wong4	Míng Wáng	Minh Vương	122–113 BC
趙興	ziu6 hing1	Zhào Xīng	Ciuq Hingh	Triệu Hưng	哀王	oi1 wong4	Āi Wáng	Ai Vương	113–112 BC
趙建德	ziu6 gin3 dak1	Zhào Jiàndé	Ciuq Gendwz	Triệu Kiến Đức	陽王	joeng4 wong4	Yáng Wáng	Dương Vương	112–111 BC

It is the ruling house of Canton about 100-200BC. Their capital was in Panyu. Qin Shi Huang sent 趙他 to go and conquer these tribes and setup the origin of Canton.

Also this table :

Ancient Yue states or groups

Chinese	Mandarin	Cantonese (Jyutping)	Vietnamese	Literal meaning
於越/于越	Yūyuè	jyu1 jyut6	Ư Việt	Yue by Wuyu (first ruler of Yue)
揚越	Yángyuè	joeng4 jyut6	Dương Việt	Yue of Yangzhou
東甌	Dōng'ōu	dung1 au1	Đông Âu	Eastern Ou
閩越	Mǐnyuè	man5 jyut6	Mân Việt	Yue of Min
夜郎	Yèláng	je6 long4	Dạ Lang
南越	Nányuè	naam4 jyut6	Nam Việt	Southern Yue
山越	Shānyuè	saan1 jyut6	Sơn Việt	Mountain Yue
雒越	Luòyuè	lok6 jyut6	Lạc Việt
甌越	Ōuyuè	au1 jyut6	Âu Việt	Yue of Ou
滇越	Dianyuè	din1 jyut6	Điền Việt	Yue of Dian

the people in Hokkien and Canto were the same as Northern Vietnamese. It can be said that the Qins came in and annexed them without warfare. The difference is that Cantos kept some of their original language. By comparison, the Minyue did not sinicize until the Tang dynasty and adopted Middle Chinese by then. It could be because there was a huge influx of Tang imperials who fled there hence Hokkien is more Middle Chinese inspired. whereas it would be more accurate to say that Cantonese retains some of its Vietnamese/Baiyue roots.

I could reproduce another table here reflecting the commonalities between Middle Chinese, Hokkien, Korean and Japanese, but I think that's too much.

But one this you said is 100% accurate is that Mandarin is a 100% foreigner enforced language.

One other thing about mandarin. It's basics or Essence is the English Alphabet. Don't the mandarin dictionary use the English Alphabet to decipher the cina word? And to text in cina...use the ang mor alphabet to get the cina word? Therefore it's really AMDK

 

[nightsafari]

One other thing about mandarin. It's basics or Essence is the English Alphabet. Don't the mandarin dictionary use the English Alphabet to decipher the cina word? And to text in cina...use the ang mor alphabet to get the cina word? Therefore it's really AMDK

Yes. that's again another manchu/Qing idea. hanyu pinyin. It uses their idea of how those letters should be pronounced so actually makes no sense to most Westerners.

That's why Zhang Ziyi is xang xiyi to Westerners not chang chiyi.

A better version that was in previously use but overwritten by the Qing Manchus was the Wade Giles system. The translation may not have been accurate but at least Westerners using it then didn't sound like they were sneezing all the time.

 

[syed putra]

the people in Hokkien and Canto were the same as Northern

They are different. Many who fled on boats when Vietcong won were ethnic chinese.
Those boats headed out to hong kong. Many remained. Rest tried for sinkie.but were pushed out. Only malays allowed them to stay. And were housed on pulau bidong in malaysua and galang island in indonesia.

 

[Hypocrite-The]

Mandarin is such a crude n vulgar language
..
On par with fuckein..

https://www.malaymail.com/news/life...opped-as-wordings-sound-like-vulgar-h/2034859

 

[Hypocrite-The]

that's unfortunately not 100% accurate. In history there was no standard Chinese. Even middle Chinese. There were hundreds of languages in the country. Like the EU nowadays. Middle Chinese was a prestige language/dialect during the Tang dynasty before all the foreign barbarians invaded and took over so is the last pure Chinese language/dialect that was used by the ruling elite and so in this regard holds a special place. That's all.

Canton and Cantonese has a past that is inextricably linked with Vietnam and Vietnamese. Check this table out :

Personal Name	Reign Period	Reigned From	Other Names
Name	Cantonese	Standard Mandarin	Zhuang	Vietnamese	Name	Cantonese	Standard Mandarin	Vietnamese
趙佗/趙他	ziu6 taa4	Zhào Tuó	Ciuq Doz	Triệu Đà	武王	mou5 wong4	Wǔ Wáng	Vũ Vương	203–137 BC
趙眜	ziu6 mut6	Zhào Mò	Ciuq Huz	Triệu Mạt	文王	man4 wong4	Wén Wáng	Văn Vương	137–122 BC	趙胡
趙嬰齊	ziu6 jing1 cai4	Zhào Yīngqí	Ciuq Yinghcaez	Triệu Anh Tề	明王	ming4 wong4	Míng Wáng	Minh Vương	122–113 BC
趙興	ziu6 hing1	Zhào Xīng	Ciuq Hingh	Triệu Hưng	哀王	oi1 wong4	Āi Wáng	Ai Vương	113–112 BC
趙建德	ziu6 gin3 dak1	Zhào Jiàndé	Ciuq Gendwz	Triệu Kiến Đức	陽王	joeng4 wong4	Yáng Wáng	Dương Vương	112–111 BC

It is the ruling house of Canton about 100-200BC. Their capital was in Panyu. Qin Shi Huang sent 趙他 to go and conquer these tribes and setup the origin of Canton.

Also this table :

Ancient Yue states or groups

Chinese	Mandarin	Cantonese (Jyutping)	Vietnamese	Literal meaning
於越/于越	Yūyuè	jyu1 jyut6	Ư Việt	Yue by Wuyu (first ruler of Yue)
揚越	Yángyuè	joeng4 jyut6	Dương Việt	Yue of Yangzhou
東甌	Dōng'ōu	dung1 au1	Đông Âu	Eastern Ou
閩越	Mǐnyuè	man5 jyut6	Mân Việt	Yue of Min
夜郎	Yèláng	je6 long4	Dạ Lang
南越	Nányuè	naam4 jyut6	Nam Việt	Southern Yue
山越	Shānyuè	saan1 jyut6	Sơn Việt	Mountain Yue
雒越	Luòyuè	lok6 jyut6	Lạc Việt
甌越	Ōuyuè	au1 jyut6	Âu Việt	Yue of Ou
滇越	Dianyuè	din1 jyut6	Điền Việt	Yue of Dian

the people in Hokkien and Canto were the same as Northern Vietnamese. It can be said that the Qins came in and annexed them without warfare. The difference is that Cantos kept some of their original language. By comparison, the Minyue did not sinicize until the Tang dynasty and adopted Middle Chinese by then. It could be because there was a huge influx of Tang imperials who fled there hence Hokkien is more Middle Chinese inspired. whereas it would be more accurate to say that Cantonese retains some of its Vietnamese/Baiyue roots.

I could reproduce another table here reflecting the commonalities between Middle Chinese, Hokkien, Korean and Japanese, but I think that's too much.

But one this you said is 100% accurate is that Mandarin is a 100% foreigner enforced language.

If the Cantos are really viets n not cina. All the more reason for Cantonese to go independent. That way with its own language. It can n should middle chinese. N the fuckkas n fuckeins can all be expelled to fuckein province. Cantos don't need parasites. Fuckkas are snakes where even fuckeins don't like them