How good is RSAF ?

[Sideswipe]

That is why I keep telling people that the PAP will never allow itself to lose power legitimately inan election. Thenew incoming govt. will find all the rotten eggs and we will have to end up executing elites for economic crimes.

I think the new govt would find PAP outside lobangs too attractive and now it's theirs.

 

[eatshitndie]

What I've read differs, and what I read came from US fighter pilots. Most of them agreed that their aircrafts at that time were technically inferior due to complacency in technical deveopment between WW1 and WW2 years.

The high kill ratios were due to superior intelligence and superior strategic command and planning, not due to technical superiority of the aircrafts. A troop of elite commandoes led by Guan Yu could also be cornered and captured by Lu Meng when pride and complacency blinded the strategic requirements.

you've gotta look at the progression of planes coming out of design, test and manufacturing timelines, facts and stats. when the pacific war started, the u.s. had a bunch of brewster f2a buffaloes and grumman f4f wildcats which were totally outclassed by the zeros. of course, airmen piloting these "deathtraps" would whine and complain. when the f6f hellcat replaced the wildcat, praises started pouring in. same pilots, different planes. even more so, young navy pilots who just graduated from training flew and fought better than veteran pilots from the ijn. there were also other factors, such as better training, better organization, better strategy, better command, better recruitment, better this better that. but you cannot deny the obvious - better planes. also contributing to this was the u.s. navy's vital need to rescue and save pilots who were shot down in the sea. this increased the total veteran experience in the (valuable and limited) pool of pilots, while the ijn were losing their veteran stock cumulatively... and quickly when better planes were flown by the usn. the u.s. has a knack of improving technology, equipment and weapons on the fly so to speak when push comes to shove. the japanese were slow to adapt. why was the hellcat so much more superior than its predecessor, the wildcat, and its direct opponent, the zero? you have to look at the specifications and facts. it was the first naval fighter to incorporate design lessons from battle losses incurred by its predecessor. besides engine performance, maneuverability, and a better rate of climb, the hellcat continued one advantage that the wildcat had over the zero. the pilot compartment and fuel tank section were heavily armored, ensuring high survivability of the most important resource of a fighter aircraft - the pilot.

 

[Ramseth]

I agree, and we're in agreement. Note that I said technical complacency between the years of WW1 and WW2. After WW2 started, US woke up.

you've gotta look at the progression of planes coming out of design, test and manufacturing timelines, facts and stats. when the pacific war started, the u.s. had a bunch of brewster f2a buffaloes and grumman f4f wildcats which were totally outclassed by the zeros. of course, airmen piloting these "deathtraps" would whine and complain. when the f6f hellcat replaced the wildcat, praises started pouring in. same pilots, different planes. even more so, young navy pilots who just graduated from training flew and fought better than veteran pilots from the ijn. there were also other factors, such as better training, better organization, better strategy, better command, better recruitment, better this better that. but you cannot deny the obvious - better planes. also contributing to this was the u.s. navy's vital need to rescue and save pilots who were shot down in the sea. this increased the total veteran experience in the (valuable and limited) pool of pilots, while the ijn were losing their veteran stock cumulatively... and quickly when better planes were flown by the usn. the u.s. has a knack of improving technology, equipment and weapons on the fly so to speak when push comes to shove. the japanese were slow to adapt. why was the hellcat so much more superior than its predecessor, the wildcat, and its direct opponent, the zero? you have to look at the specifications and facts. it was the first naval fighter to incorporate design lessons from battle losses incurred by its predecessor. besides engine performance, maneuverability, and a better rate of climb, the hellcat continued one advantage that the wildcat had over the zero. the pilot compartment and fuel tank section were heavily armored, ensuring high survivability of the most important resource of a fighter aircraft - the pilot.

 

[Chau Ve Nist]

You fight the Malaysians, you fight the 200 million Indonesians. How? Anyone with non-playstation solutions?


"...The Malay obsession with political dominance is conditioned in no small measure by what has happened to the Malay minority in Singapore.

...At the same time Singapore must not hold out any hope for the Chinese for a different system in Malaysia. The position Singapore takes will affect us, and if the Malays feel further threatened, they might even consider a merger with Indonesia.

I know they are many Malays who have been telling me they would rather share poverty with Indonesia than see their political position eroded. If that happened, we will have a different ball game again in the regional politics of South-East Asia.

...Let not Singapore be the harbinger of Chinese irredentist tendencies. I say to all - the Chinese in Malaysia and to Singaporean - don't play with fire." Tan Sri Abdullah Ahmad "Malay Dominance", Institute of International Affairs, Singapore 30 August 1986

 

[Chau Ve Nist]

Forget about all this talk of war. There won't be any airstrikes let alone any war. All the warmongering talk, the black, green designations, National Service, RSAF, Army and Navy open houses and assorted rubbish are political and not military in nature. They are for domestic political consumption and not for military expeditions or fights.

Try launching the first bomb and Singapore as an independent political entity is finished. All senior military officers in the SAF, MAF and TNI and their governments know this. But appeareances have been kept up and will continue to be kept up for domestic politics and consumption. Suits the Singapore government when "threats" can be vomitted out at will when required.

The Malaysians and Indonesians just play along when their little Singapore adik want to act and talk big and show off his expensive toys. No different with older brothers in a traditional Asian family tolerating the youngest brother when he wants to brag, boast or sulk. The youngest and most vulnerable in a family is always given some leeway.

 

[Papsmearer]

Forget about all this talk of war. There won't be any airstrikes let alone any war. All the warmongering talk, the black, green designations, National Service, RSAF, Army and Navy open houses and assorted rubbish are political and not military in nature. They are for domestic political consumption and not for military expeditions or fights.

Try launching the first bomb and Singapore as an independent political entity is finished. All senior military officers in the SAF, MAF and TNI and their governments know this. But appeareances have been kept up and will continue to be kept up for domestic politics and consumption. Suits the Singapore government when "threats" can be vomitted out at will when required.

The Malaysians and Indonesians just play along when their little Singapore adik want to act and talk big and show off his expensive toys. No different with older brothers in a traditional Asian family tolerating the youngest brother when he wants to brag, boast or sulk. The youngest and most vulnerable in a family is always given some leeway.

its not as easy as that. S'pore has defence treaties with some countries, and we are legally obligated to help them militarily in the event of conflict. Whether there is political will or not, that is another question. What S'poreans do not realise is that in the event of a real conflict, S'porean men will be killed in a foreign country defending that foreign country. There is precedent for this. In the 60s, it was mentioned that some SIR units were send to brunei to help the sultan from being overthrown in a rebellion. So, I have to say that the SAF is not entirely for show. In addition, it will be needed to maintain control of the civilian population in times of unrest.

 

[Ramseth]

its not as easy as that. S'pore has defence treaties with some countries, and we are legally obligated to help them militarily in the event of conflict. Whether there is political will or not, that is another question. What S'poreans do not realise is that in the event of a real conflict, S'porean men will be killed in a foreign country defending that foreign country. There is precedent for this. In the 60s, it was mentioned that some SIR units were send to brunei to help the sultan from being overthrown in a rebellion. So, I have to say that the SAF is not entirely for show. In addition, it will be needed to maintain control of the civilian population in times of unrest.

You're right. For example, if Brunei is invaded by Indonesia, Singapore has to send troops to help defend Brunei. Ditto if Thailand is invaded by Vietnam. Malaysia knows all that and is involved too, because in both scenarios Malaysia would be in danger too.

There're all these talks about Operation Segamat to take Johor if Singapore's water supply is threatened. Malaysia knows that too, but they're not worried as they hold the key to the tap. As long as the tap is flowing, Singapore has no reason whatever to invade Johor. If they really want to off the tap, the first thing they do would be up all defences from KL all the way south to the Causeway, then off the tap.

 

[Sideswipe]

treaties don't mean much.
Stalin signed 20+ treaties with various countries from 1930-1950 and went back on his word on every treaties.

It's always necessity.
You do what is best for you at that particular time and your necessity will change.

 

[kingrant]

Assuming there are no international conventions and protocol, and it is a wild wild west scenario, if the Malaysians accepted Indonesian military assistance, they would be gobbled up in no time. Throughout history, the Malay archipelago was overrun by powerful empires from Sumatra, Java, Aceh, and Bugis. Even Siam. If the Malaysians invite them into the country, the latter will not leave and will take over control.

If Malaysia and Indonesia were indeed thicker than water Muslim blood brothers, Indonesia would not have waged Confrontasi against M'sia. M'sia would have jumped at the offer to form MAPHILINDO then, together with Philippines - a pan-Islamic alliance. You were probably too young to know that.

Post-9/11, it is even more unlikely that such an alliance is possible. Singapore has always been regarded as the lynchpin of U.S. strategic interest in the geopolitical realities of SE Asia. Besides the obvious pivotal point between East and West oil and trade flows, S'pore is seen as a strategic and convenient base to extend US reach in the region to counter China especially. The US needs it to complement bases in Subic, okinawa, Taiwan. The Americans will see to it that S'pore will never fall to any Muslim state in the region. Better if they have a defence treaty with S'pore but without one has never been nor will be a reason to stop a military intervention to protect and safeguard, not so muich S'pore's interests as their own.

So 200 million Indonesians? Be realistic. The Indonesians will find us more useful to them in the current state than if we are at war. Where and what would all the armies of maids go back to? Where will the Batam and Riau factory workers go?

You fight the Malaysians, you fight the 200 million Indonesians. How? Anyone with non-playstation solutions?


"...The Malay obsession with political dominance is conditioned in no small measure by what has happened to the Malay minority in Singapore.

...At the same time Singapore must not hold out any hope for the Chinese for a different system in Malaysia. The position Singapore takes will affect us, and if the Malays feel further threatened, they might even consider a merger with Indonesia.

I know they are many Malays who have been telling me they would rather share poverty with Indonesia than see their political position eroded. If that happened, we will have a different ball game again in the regional politics of South-East Asia.

...Let not Singapore be the harbinger of Chinese irredentist tendencies. I say to all - the Chinese in Malaysia and to Singaporean - don't play with fire." Tan Sri Abdullah Ahmad "Malay Dominance", Institute of International Affairs, Singapore 30 August 1986

 

[Ramseth]

So 200 million Indonesians? Be realistic. The Indonesians will find us more useful to them in the current state than if we are at war. Where and what would all the armies of maids go back to? Where will the Batam and Riau factory workers go?

Yes, be realistic. They don't have 200 million rifles to arm them and they don't have 1 million ships to sail them over even at 200 per ship. Even at official Indonesian army strength of more than 1 million, what's their capacity to deliver force overseas? Almost zero by modern international warfare standards. They can attack East Malaysia at most. Doesn't mean Singapore is completely out of their range, no. But it could be easily settled by bombing Jarkarta back to the stone age, win or lose. That's the deterrent.

 

[Papsmearer]

treaties don't mean much.
Stalin signed 20+ treaties with various countries from 1930-1950 and went back on his word on every treaties.

It's always necessity.
You do what is best for you at that particular time and your necessity will change.

Again, you are historically inaccurate. Right off the top of my head, I can think of one treaty that he honoured. The agreement with Germany to partition Poland. The Germans were the ones to break that treaty, not Stalin. As well, Stalin honoured his treaties with the Germans to allow the training and equipping of their air force in Russia. The Germans voluntarily terminated the agreement. And this is just off the top of my head.

 

[Papsmearer]

The US needs it to complement bases in Subic, okinawa, Taiwan. The Americans will see to it that S'pore will never fall to any Muslim state in the region. Better if they have a defence treaty with S'pore but without one has never been nor will be a reason to stop a military intervention to protect and safeguard, not so muich S'pore's interests as their own.

QUOTE]

Kingrant, are u living in a time warp? Subic closed long long ago. That is why the PAP build Changi NB to house Nimitz Class AC and above. S'pore is now even more vital to the US. Paya Lebar AB is now doing depot level servicing on USN and USAF aircraft in the region, servicing that used to be done at Clark.

 

[Papsmearer]

You're right. For example, if Brunei is invaded by Indonesia, Singapore has to send troops to help defend Brunei. Ditto if Thailand is invaded by Vietnam. Malaysia knows all that and is involved too, because in both scenarios Malaysia would be in danger too.

There're all these talks about Operation Segamat to take Johor if Singapore's water supply is threatened. Malaysia knows that too, but they're not worried as they hold the key to the tap. As long as the tap is flowing, Singapore has no reason whatever to invade Johor. If they really want to off the tap, the first thing they do would be up all defences from KL all the way south to the Causeway, then off the tap.

If Singapore's water supply is "threatened", it will be all our fault. Nothing to do with the Malaysians. The water is theirs. Its their natural resource and asset. They don't have to sell it to us, and they don't have to sell it at the price WE WANT. As far as I am concerned, they are doing us a big favour. In 20 years time, they will need the water themselves. SOuthern Johor state is growing like crazy, they will need the water for themselves and their industrial parks. Than u will see how reluctant they are to renew any water agreement. This problem has existed for 30 years. The PAP has done nothing about it. 20 years ago, there was talk about a new water source and pipeline from the Riau islands, what happened to that? Desalination technology has been around for 40 plus years, and now only the PAP looks at it? Newater? What is that crap? why haven't there be water conservation strategies in place for the last 30 years? Things like water catchment devices on the roof tops of every HDB building or recycling bath water for toilet use, etc. Why increase the population 36% without increasing the source water supply first? Worse of all, the PAP likes to boast how much money we have and how big our national reserves are. Well, the Malaysians will justifiably ask for more money or they will just keep the water for their own consumption. Than what? We invade them? Even the US will not help us, as we are the aggressors.

 

[kingrant]

My apologies..I did have a moment of hesitation there when I typed it in..

tks anyway, it doesnt change the argument..they just want us more.

Kingrant, are u living in a time warp? Subic closed long long ago. That is why the PAP build Changi NB to house Nimitz Class AC and above. S'pore is now even more vital to the US. Paya Lebar AB is now doing depot level servicing on USN and USAF aircraft in the region, servicing that used to be done at Clark.

 

[nextinfidel]

>>>If all go according to plan and scrip, SAF would overrun Johor up to Segamat within half a day if NSmen do their duty faithfully, courageously and competently. The vast majority of Malaysian troops are amassed north towards the Thai border, no south in Johor.<<<<<

so what's next after that?? think the SAF can tahan an insurgent's war??
for christ's sake, some of our aqua peng even cried when being shaved botak in BMT.

and tell me. who's gonna fight a war for the PAP and their FT lackeys and pariah dogs?

 

[Sideswipe]

and tell me. who's gonna fight a war for the PAP and their FT lackeys and pariah dogs?

He will lead us to victory...

 

[angie ll]

The Thai airforce is constrained by budget concerns & chooses to buy things they can afford such as Saab Gripen, F5, F16.

I don't really know what RSAFs mission is Why they need 143 F16/F15s. Good for show but what really is their mission

yes u are right. sin should buy affordable planes like cessna then mount missiles on the wings hor.. gosh u so clever leh. must go work in mindef ok.

 

[angie II]

yes u are right. sin should buy affordable planes like cessna then mount missiles on the wings hor.. gosh u so clever leh. must go work in mindef ok.

No you stupid dickhead, you must bow to me the clone master.

.

 

[johnny333]

yes u are right. sin should buy affordable planes like cessna then mount missiles on the wings hor.. gosh u so clever leh. must go work in mindef ok.

Where did I say they should buy Cessnas

Even if they cut the number of combat aircraft by 80% they would still have more planes than any other nation in SE Asia.

 

[johnny333]

That is why I keep telling people that the PAP will never allow itself to lose power legitimately inan election. Thenew incoming govt. will find all the rotten eggs and we will have to end up executing elites for economic crimes.

All corrupt gov'ts eventually fall: Marcos, Suharto, Thaksin,.. LKY will probably get away but not LHL.

In Spore's we are beginning to see things unravel for the PAP. Even if the PAP hangs on to power with increasing number of unemployed, poorly paid, retired,.. something will eventually give.