How good is RSAF ?

[Papsmearer]

add to that the twin-prop p-38 lightning. but i will rank the p-51 mustang higher than the p-38. for naval fighters, the f4u would rank higher than the f6f hellcat. all of them would rank higher than zeros and prop me's (not the me 262 which was a jet fighter).

Contrary to what Ramseth says, all of the US fighters i mention will totally outclass the Zero, and only a few very late model Spits can tangle with them, and only 1 specialised version of the 109 can play with P-51.

 

[Papsmearer]

Spore is the smallest country in this region and the PAP wants Sporeans to support the USAF :p

All that world class pay is fuelling the PAPs delusions. If Spore did that it would be seen as a puppet of the US.

What happens after the hostilities are over & the american go home

LKY made a mistake with his crack about Spore being the Israel of the region. I would think that a more fitting goal is to be the Switzerland of the region: neutrality, money laundering, higher standard of living,..

yes, we should have played the neutrality card, be everyone's friend, and provide/sell them services that make us indispensable to them. Because Lee Con You got malay blood in him, if he was humble and friendly to the neighbours, he would accepted more readily than a Jew being accepted by an Arab. Instead he ostracize everyone and now we need a $5 billion a year defence budget.

 

[Papsmearer]

The question of air superiority in terms of technological advantage and quality of pilot prowess of the RSAF becomes IRRELEVANT in any hypothetical armed conflict discussion because of ONE WEAK LINK that is difficult to fix.

SINGAPORE'S small land mass makes all their military runways including the secondary ones at the EASTCOAST PARKWAY (ECP) VULNERABLE to DAMAGE which is a crippling blow that would result in warplanes not being able to take off OR being able to land after their 1st sortie.

All the locations of the RSAF airports are already known by friend and foe. The locations of potential hostile mobile SAM/artillery batteries however remains unknown. Hostile saturation artillery barrages, missile strikes etc that would surely pockmark any military runway with craters/potholes in the opening gambit to render the technologically superior RSAF an impotent force.

Close proximity of all military airports situated in the NORTHERN parts of Singapore makes even more vulnerable and also hazardous for RSAF pilots to take off to gain sufficient altitude and airspeed to perform any effective countermeasures or evasive manoeuvres against short range SAM batteries of hostile AIR DEFENCE ARTILLERIES.

To neutralise hostile threats to airport runways puts the SAF in a catch 22 position. To take out the hostile SAM batteries/Artillery to safeguard RSAF runways without prior knowledge of their location requires lots of ordnance to saturate the whole of JOHORE causing widespread collateral civilian casualties and earning international condemnation.

Moving SAF ground troops in to neutralise them cannot take place safely avoiding massive friendly forces casaulties without adequate air cover. The RSAF cannot provide that vital aircover because the RSAF planes cannot take off from damaged and inoperable runways. Taking off from secret airfields in Thailand won't be as effective to provide air cover for ground troops operating in the Johore Theatre of operations due to the distance factor. The entire SAF including the RSAF would it seems be paralysed from DAY 1 by this logistical disadvantage of time and space.

Kiwi, I can guarantee u 100% that if under your scenario, an enemy surprise attack destroyed every single air base and airport in singapore, as well as every single RSAF aircraft on the ground, the RSAF will still be a formidable force. At any one time, 1/4 to 1/3 of the RSAF combat strength is overseas. And they have the means to bring them back rapidly.

 

[Papsmearer]

hi ramseth. first of all, i have utmost respect for u. but having said that, not many military commanders in SEA have any war experience.

secondly, rsaf pilots trained with us pilots who have gone thru gulf war....and it is a fact that us pilots are impressed with the performance of rsaf pilots who are based in states.

There are lots of SEA military commanders with combat experience. As for combat experience in an all out large scale war, probably only Vietnam. They fought a large scale war with China in 1979/1980 and than skirmishes until 1990. I am sure some of their commanders were junior level officers, so if say there was a 25 year company commander during that war, he would a 55 year old general or colonel today.

For smaller scale conflicts like border wars, Thai vs Laos is an example where a junior level officer could have gotten experience in the army and is in a senior rank today. So, the Thais and the Laotians may spot a few senior officers with experience under fire.

Same goes for the Malaysians. Serving and fighting with various UN forces in Bosnia, Somalia, etc. They were in actual combat ops, and suffered casualties. I would say that qualifies them for combat experience.

As for the USAF's nice comments about the RSAF pilots, what do you expect them to say? They are the teachers. If they call their students bad, it reflects on them too. They would never say they were unimpressed by RSAF pilots. By the way, the US also trained the Argentine A-4 pilots in the Falkland wars. Would u say u were impressed by them? How about the Kuwaiti pilots in the Gulf War? Also trained by the US. Impressive bunch or chickens who cut and run? The fact is until ths shit hits the fan, we don't really know what type pilots we have, or the air commanders in charge of them. I would not rely on another country to tell me how good my pilots are.

 

[eatshitndie]

Contrary to what Ramseth says, all of the US fighters i mention will totally outclass the Zero, and only a few very late model Spits can tangle with them, and only 1 specialised version of the 109 can play with P-51.

yup. if the hellcat was already dominating the pacific theater with its introduction, one could imagine what the f4u corsair dogfighting performance was like when compared to the zero. interestingly, because the corsair was introduced much later than the hellcat, they had less dogfight contacts with the naval version of the zero, the a6m. the hellcat dominated the stats with a 13:1 kill ratio against the zero while the corsair had a 11:1 kill ratio against all ijn fighters. if the kill ratio of hellcats were to include kills against ki-84 (ijaaf) and j2m (ijn), the average would have been lower as the latter ratios are 9.5:1 and 3.7:1 respectively.

 

[ektay]

And the highly paid Generals in the SAF fought real wars?

do u want war?

 

[johnny333]

yes, they will be viewed as victorious liberators by sinkies. 2nd language will be Malay, much easier to learn than mandarin.

Not familiar with the M'ysian educ system would there even be a 2nd language requirement under Malaysia

Many are already living in JB, as econimic migrants
Just imagine cheap water, cheap utilities, cheap fuel, .....

Smokers, drinkers, cheongsters will also be much happier :p

 

[johnny333]

At any one time, 1/4 to 1/3 of the RSAF combat strength is overseas. And they have the means to bring them back rapidly.

Ehh, if all the runways are damaged, where would they land


Wouldn't be surprised if Spore has a carrier on their shopping list

 

[Ramseth]

As for the USAF's nice comments about the RSAF pilots, what do you expect them to say? They are the teachers. If they call their students bad, it reflects on them too. They would never say they were unimpressed by RSAF pilots. By the way, the US also trained the Argentine A-4 pilots in the Falkland wars. Would u say u were impressed by them? How about the Kuwaiti pilots in the Gulf War? Also trained by the US. Impressive bunch or chickens who cut and run? The fact is until ths shit hits the fan, we don't really know what type pilots we have, or the air commanders in charge of them. I would not rely on another country to tell me how good my pilots are.

Exactly. Singapore paid US truckloads of money to buy hardware, software and training. One just don't say bad things about fee-paying students and customers. I'm not saying that RSAF pilots are necessarily bad or below par, but there's no war to test that. And we don't want a war with anyone, do we?

 

[balajii]

Exactly. Singapore paid US truckloads of money to buy hardware, software and training. One just don't say bad things about fee-paying students and customers. QUOTE]

same same like when PRC chicken say "wow, u very strong, yours very long/big/thick, u last very long. :p

 

[Ramseth]

yup. if the hellcat was already dominating the pacific theater with its introduction, one could imagine what the f4u corsair dogfighting performance was like when compared to the zero. interestingly, because the corsair was introduced much later than the hellcat, they had less dogfight contacts with the naval version of the zero, the a6m. the hellcat dominated the stats with a 13:1 kill ratio against the zero while the corsair had a 11:1 kill ratio against all ijn fighters. if the kill ratio of hellcats were to include kills against ki-84 (ijaaf) and j2m (ijn), the average would have been lower as the latter ratios are 9.5:1 and 3.7:1 respectively.

What I've read differs, and what I read came from US fighter pilots. Most of them agreed that their aircrafts at that time were technically inferior due to complacency in technical deveopment between WW1 and WW2 years.

The high kill ratios were due to superior intelligence and superior strategic command and planning, not due to technical superiority of the aircrafts. A troop of elite commandoes led by Guan Yu could also be cornered and captured by Lu Meng when pride and complacency blinded the strategic requirements.

 

[johnny333]

yes, we should have played the neutrality card, be everyone's friend, and provide/sell them services that make us indispensable to them. Because Lee Con You got malay blood in him, if he was humble and friendly to the neighbours, he would accepted more readily than a Jew being accepted by an Arab. Instead he ostracize everyone and now we need a $5 billion a year defence budget.

Everyone including Indos & Malaysians need a place to chill out & gamble, after all under islam gambling is discourraged. Spore's laundry business will continue to thrive in this region as long as there money to be made.

There's a places for a Switzerland of the orient but LKY seems to be more interested in creating a polyglot nation: with 3rd world labour force led by the, worlds highest class paid crooks

 

[johnny333]

Wow your technician friend is a genius. Just about every model of aircraft has crashed on take off. lots of reasons for that. Hope your tech friend doesn't work on any aircraft I am flying in.

The point he was trying to make was that it was happening on a regular basis.

Sad thing about my friend, he was one of those technician who joined with GCE 'O levels. For anyone familaiar with SAF's history, these people were eventually discarded & replaced by poly students.

 

[johnny333]

Agree why spend so much money in weapon. Buy 50 helicopter with machine gun will be enough for patrol. What for go war?
Money better spend on transport and healthcare.

I doubt Spore needs 50 choppers, air space is so limited

It's amazing just how wealthy Spore "was"

All those billions squandered on a 3G force: all those $$$ that goes to paying those paper general, brigadiers & hardware. When you add the billions losst by Temask, multi-millions salaries paid to those PAP MP & civil servants.

The amount of $$$$ wasted is mind boggling just mid boggling

Its no wonder the peanut lady made the famous peanut statement

 

[kingrant]

Maybe 'some' Indonesians may decide to help Malaysia on a private basis, but too simplistic to think that there will be govt-to-govt alliance. In the ME, when Israel was taking out bases in Jordan, how many Muslim states in the region went in to help Hamas?

LKY's likening of Singapore to Israel is part of history, and was used as a fear-mongering tool to justify NS and the defence budget. He no longer says that nowadays.

Even the languages in both countries are differently written and pronounced -Bahasa Melayu and Bahasa Indonesia.

I know the two are not friends. They argue over illegal workers, songs, dances,...

However they are muslims. If Spore attacks Malaysia, I wouldn't be surprised if some Indonesians decide to help the Malaysians.

Just look at the middle east, there are many muslim factions which would go after each other's throat. Even with their feuds, their hatred of Israel is greater.

LKY describes Spore as the Israel of the region. He obviously fears Malaysia AND Indonesia.

 

[Sideswipe]

RSAF pilots can fight, I think so - professional afterall.

but the army confirm cannot.
we all went through reservists, we see for ourselves, be honest, I think sure die one...

 

[kingrant]

If you are wondering whether the neighbouring armies are any better, I daresay all are sama2.

But I still think that our chaps can rise to the occasion when the clarion call comes.

RSAF pilots can fight, I think so - professional afterall.

but the army confirm cannot.
we all went through reservists, we see for ourselves, be honest, I think sure die one...

 

[Ramseth]

RSAF pilots can fight, I think so - professional afterall.

but the army confirm cannot.
we all went through reservists, we see for ourselves, be honest, I think sure die one...

Yeah, RSAF pilots are all regulars.

SAF depends on NSmen, look worrying to me, like you've said, we've all seen how it is before in NS and reservist. To fight an all-regular enemy army, very worrying...very worrying indeed even if we outnumber them.

In Desert Storm, 10,000 regular US or British troops could force a surrender from 100,000 Iraqi conscripts. Iraq had more than a million. Total collapse and surrendered to less than 100,000 US/UK combined.

Also notable is that US sent practically all conscripts for Vietnam War. After the defeat, they abolished conscription.

 

[Frankiestine]

Everyone including Indos & Malaysians need a place to chill out & gamble, after all under islam gambling is discourraged

This sort of reminded me of our SAF camp in Brunei. Some of the malay population used to drive in to the camp canteen and sat down to a nice cool can of beer. Cos outside of it, they must be all holy and righteous..

 

[breakingfree]

1). In SEA, no countries hav any real air combat experience. (Vietnam limited.. mostly being shooting target for US.)

2). Pls...we are fighting a modern warfare now..no more aerial dogfight u saw in movies or historic war clips. The plane with the best avionics, radar and missiles win cos they can shoot u down before u noe it. Aerial air combat only for last resort.

3). Some 1 posted that just bombed singapore airfield and our airforce will be rendered useless. Pls if u can think of that, so can the commanders. There are already solutions for it and every SEA countries with worthy airforce already hav precautionary measures.

4) RSAF got the best maintenance team in SEA. Cos they do lesser fuckups that others. But they still fuckups sometimes. So in theory, they will be able to do turn round faster.

Conclusion: Based on plane and maintenance, RSAF best in SEA..No fight. Based on so call war experience, pls take a look at pt 1.