Which is the most significant dialect group in china and is there a ranking?

[sleaguepunter]

Re: Song = Shang

[COLOR="blue"]The state of 宋 Song was actually a small 商 Shang state given out of courtesy by the Chou king.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

the state maybe small when compare to Jin, Chu or Qi but the Duke of Song was one of the five "Ba" of the period. But the Duke not worldly enough and was defeat in a battle against chu because he allow the chu army to ford the river and asemble into formation before making his move.

 

[sleaguepunter]

Re: Song = Shang

All Spring & Autumn states were conferred by Zhou under 裂土分封 except Chu, Wu and Yue in the south 自立为王。

while chu and yue are self impose kingdoms but state of wu was enfeoffered by zhou wen wang to his uncle's descendents. Wu share the same ji surname as the king of zhou. but wu court rank was small that why when Fuchai attend the conference to nominate a new "Ba", he want to based on military might instead of duke of jin propose according to rank.

 

[Ramseth]

Re: Song = Shang

while chu and yue are self impose kingdoms but state of wu was enfeoffered by zhou wen wang to his uncle's descendents. Wu share the same ji surname as the king of zhou. but wu court rank was small that why when Fuchai attend the conference to nominate a new "Ba", he want to based on military might instead of duke of jin propose according to rank.

Thanks for the info. I wasn't aware of the uncle relationship to Zhou, but I understand that Wu had always claimed the title of King above Duke which was unacceptable to Zhou hierarchy. Duke was supposed to be the highest rank under Zhou, hence the saying against the southerners, 真公对假王。By the time Qin overran Zhou and China entered the 7 states warring era, all claimed to be kings. The winner of course was Qin Shihuang who upped his title to Emperor.

 

[eatshitndie]

Re: Song = Shang

Thanks for the info. I wasn't aware of the uncle relationship to Zhou, but I understand that Wu had always claimed the title of King above Duke which was unacceptable to Zhou hierarchy. Duke was supposed to be the highest rank under Zhou, hence the saying against the southerners, 真公对假王。By the time Qin overran Zhou and China entered the 7 states warring era, all claimed to be kings. The winner of course was Qin Shihuang who upped his title to Emperor.

old harry upped his title to senile emperor mentor extraordinaire noncompare (semen).

 

[Fook Seng]

根据徐旭生等学者的研究，华夏的各支祖先，最初包括传说时代的三大集团。这三大集团主要分布在黄河领域，即中原的华夏和东方的东夷，以及分布在长江领域或南方的苗蛮。其中，华夏集团主要有姬姓的黄帝、姜姓的炎帝，东夷集团主要有嬴姓的太昊、少昊。后来的夏商周三族以及秦、赵等等，似乎都是这两集团的后裔。例如，周人为姬姓，秦人为嬴姓。

As you can see, it went far beyond Xia ? Not more than 7000 but at least more than 4000 years ago.

I am not disputing the fact that 性 existed at least 5000 years ago. I was only pointing out the fact that it was transmitted down the maternal side until the end of the Autumn-Spring Warring Period in the Zhou Dynasty roughly 2,500 years ago when transmission down the lineage switched to the paternal side. Whilst first it was a tradition only for the royalty, eventually it became also the customs of the common people. My key point is that it did not stay matrilineal throughout. It is quite obvious that today it is patrilineal as we follow our fathers' surnames.

 

[Ramseth]

old harry upped his title to senile emperor mentor extraordinaire noncompare (semen).

LOL no wonder he likes swimming that much even in his old and frail body.

I am not disputing the fact that 性 existed at least 5000 years ago. I was only pointing out the fact that it was transmitted down the maternal side until the end of the Autumn-Spring Warring Period in the Zhou Dynasty roughly 2,500 years ago when transmission down the lineage switched to the paternal side. Whilst first it was a tradition only for the royalty, eventually it became also the customs of the common people. My key point is that it did not stay matrilineal throughout. It is quite obvious that today it is patrilineal as we follow our fathers' surnames.

Chinese surnames predated the foundation of Chinese civilization. 黄帝 姓 公孙 名 轩辕。It was matrilineal until Huangdi outlawed incest, institutionalized marriage, families and clans and made it patrilineal. The early Chinese kings and dukes and lords weren't supposed to have surnames. They were supposed to be higher than families and clans, the name of their fiefdom represents them. Even the British practise that until today. The royal family surname is Windsor but never used.

 

[Jah_rastafar_I]

Oh please, I live in Singapore because I'm born here. Serving Singaporeans? Oh please, wait till death do us part. These are people calling me chup cheng. Serve them? I'd rather cremate a million dollar notes with them to make sure that they're cremated to ashes. Not all, some are very nice Chinese friends, but too few, the majority are like that, as even sampled in this forum as you can well read for yourself.

Facts are facts. It's just calling a spade a spade. The one thing about sinkess especially minorities is that they are too sensitive. There's nothing insulting about the term chup cheng. It's not offensive at all, it's just simply what you are.

 

[sleaguepunter]

Re: Song = Shang

Thanks for the info. I wasn't aware of the uncle relationship to Zhou, but I understand that Wu had always claimed the title of King above Duke which was unacceptable to Zhou hierarchy. Duke was supposed to be the highest rank under Zhou, hence the saying against the southerners, 真公对假王。By the time Qin overran Zhou and China entered the 7 states warring era, all claimed to be kings. The winner of course was Qin Shihuang who upped his title to Emperor.

it not fuchai that claim king above duke, at least not the first. it was King Zhuang of Chu who use it first.

 

[Ramseth]

Re: Song = Shang

it not fuchai that claim king above duke, at least not the first. it was King Zhuang of Chu who use it first.

Oh that guy, 三年不鸣，一鸣惊人。

 

[chonburifc]

Re: Song = Shang

Wah. Dialect thread become a serious discussion of Chinese history. Did we study this during secondary school? Cannot remember studying all about these Zhou Wen Wang. Only remember the covers of my sec 1 and sec 2 history book are orange and green.

Also thanks those who provide inputs on the Hokkien and Cantonese dialects. Did not know so much before that.

 

[Forvendet]

Facts are facts. It's just calling a spade a spade. The one thing about sinkess especially minorities is that they are too sensitive. There's nothing insulting about the term chup cheng. It's not offensive at all, it's just simply what you are.

Oh, is it nothing insulting or offensive? Last I checked, I means bastard. I'm what I am, that's true. But I'm no bastard regardless of the mix of my racial lineage. You Chinese have a gift of insulting and offending others just for being not pure Chinese or non-Chinese. I'm used to it anyway.

 

[HedgeTrader]

Hokkien dialect is the best. We invented the most power vulgar words LOL

 

[Jah_rastafar_I]

Oh, is it nothing insulting or offensive? Last I checked, I means bastard. I'm what I am, that's true. But I'm no bastard regardless of the mix of my racial lineage. You Chinese have a gift of insulting and offending others just for being not pure Chinese or non-Chinese. I'm used to it anyway.

Does it? Therefore how then do we call you eurasians? Btw ang moh means red haired barbarian but then again that's how locals call them in local dialect.

You see the point of the matter is most of these terms aren't said with any intention of insulting anyone. There's no underlying malice in them. Therefore how should you be addressed in dialect?

How about this? Ang moh kia? Oh i'm sure you would be happy to the skies! A half ang moh being regarded as a pure breed!

 

[Forvendet]

Does it? Therefore how then do we call you eurasians? Btw ang moh means red haired barbarian but then again that's how locals call them in local dialect.

You see the point of the matter is most of these terms aren't said with any intention of insulting anyone. There's no underlying malice in them. Therefore how should you be addressed in dialect?

How about this? Ang moh kia? Oh i'm sure you would be happy to the skies! A half ang moh being regarded as a pure breed!

Actually, I feel no flattering when called ang moh kia too. But I understand that those Chinese aunties and uncles who call me that mean well without anything derogatory. However, if you look at how Windows call me chup cheng kia, if you don't understand the menace and insult, you need help in language and dialect.

 

[Fook Seng]

Hokkien dialect is the best. We invented the most power vulgar words LOL

When you pick up a fight use Hokkien. When you get into a quarrel do it in Cantonese.

 

[jw5]

When you pick up a fight use Hokkien. When you get into a quarrel do it in Cantonese.

When you want to speak words of endearment, use Thai.
When you want to moan in esctacy, use Japanese.

 

[Ramseth]

When you pick up a fight use Hokkien. When you get into a quarrel do it in Cantonese.

When you fight, shut the fuck up and deliver your blows.

 

[Fook Seng]

When you want to speak words of endearment, use Thai.
When you want to moan in esctacy, use Japanese.

Must definitely learn these two languages.

 

[Ramseth]

Must definitely learn these two languages.

Best to learn five languages.

 

[jw5]

Best to learn five languages.

Yes, tryto bea cunninglinguist.
The penis mightier than thesword.
Something iswrong withmy keyboard. :o