What has Chee Soon Juan acheieved

[Alu862]

Those who favoured looser movie censorship consisted supporters of all political colours.

The larger issues are the future of S'pore politics, how to fine tune the political system so that it is sustainable, stable, vibrant, self-rejuvenating etc. That is why political reforms come into the big picture.

Even the NSP a now go party commented on the birth rate issue in the rally speech. Your "great" Chee has no idea on that.

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

Ad hominems does you no favours my friend. Like I said before go read Hugo's article, it is all there. Dr Chee's apparent fishing expedition alleging "skeletons" based on assumptions, speculations and conjecture, baseless and unfounded. Dr Chee and his foreign supporters play into LKY's hands time and again by making up such claims without concrete substantiation.

Oh and also in Hugo's article Dr Chee had ironically implicitly raised the same point that I made in an earlier post above i.e. the way to neutralise Dr Chee would be to "ignore" him altogether.

What is the point of being there when you brought an empty head with you there?

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[Porfirio Rubirosa]

1. Fact of the matter is that thus far Dr Chee cuts little traction with the majority of Singaporeans. It is also perhaps noteworthy that PR across the causeway won a substantial number of seats in the March Malaysian GE notwithstanding BN govt's control of the electoral commission, judiciary, civil service and mainstream media.

2. Change is the only constant, perhaps, but then what can change are Singaporeans looking for? In any event, it is clear that the PAPs themselves realise this hence the slow but inevitable opeing up and liberalisation of the system. Singaporeans need to find their own political redemption and not just keep making references to other political systems.

3. On the issue of idealism, I refer specifically to my observation on Dr Chee as a politician. He appears to lack political nous. Just one eg. over the Mas Selamat Kestari fiasco, he raises valid legitimate points in the SDP blog but then spoils the effect by questioning Mas Selamat's detention under the ISA. The problem I have with Dr Chee the politician is that he appears to see things in Black and White only when the reality of politics is grey and nuanced. That is why I say Dr Chee appears to make for quite a good activist but not a successful politician.

LKY and PAP government are running S'pore and have to be accountable and transparent to the public. That is an obligation they have to fulfill to have this right to rule. You need that little grey matter in order to be able to think critically and criticise. Chee has demonstrated his intellectual ability and his intelligence. Whether he cuts any traction with the all important centre ground will vary directly to the strategies he employs, which currently are to push for reforms. The only constant, my friend, is change.

Well, it is too early to draw your conclusion now as politics is highly dynamic. There are enough people who yearn for a more open political system and level playing field, particularly the younger generation, who believe in fair competitions.

What you label as idealism is what has been taken for granted as basic necessities in developed countries i.e. an independent judiciary, independent media, peaceful protests etc.
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[Porfirio Rubirosa]

As an activist or as a politician or as both?

Chee is getting his priorities right. .

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

Hold on there a minute my dear sir, you are sounding pretty patronising here. What about JBJ?

Peaceful protests is a tool Chee uses to press the PAP govt for political reforms. He is engaging the PAP govt on larger issues which no other opposition politicians are intelligent and courageous enough to take up.

 

[chinkangkor]

Even the NSP a now go party commented on the birth rate issue in the rally speech. Your "great" Chee has no idea on that.

Chee is tackling the bigger issues.

 

[lockeliberal]

Dear Porifirio

JBJ will engage the PAP and more strongly with better flair then either LTK or SL. He has I believed learned to attack the policy and to stop attacking the person. Good for us and Good for Singapore



Locke

 

[chinkangkor]

Ad hominems does you no favours my friend. Like I said before go read Hugo's article, it is all there. Dr Chee's apparent fishing expedition alleging "skeletons" based on assumptions, speculations and conjecture, baseless and unfounded. Dr Chee and his foreign supporters play into LKY's hands time and again by making up such claims without concrete substantiation.

Chee said that there might be "skeletons" in LKY's closet. He didn't said that there are. See the difference?

If LKY chooses to run S'pore in a non-transparent and non-accountable manners, it is therefore perfectly legitimate for Chee as a politician to raise this possibility, as this is not something altogether impossible.

LKY didn't sue Chee for that comment.

 

[chinkangkor]

1. Fact of the matter is that thus far Dr Chee cuts little traction with the majority of Singaporeans. It is also perhaps noteworthy that PR across the causeway won a substantial number of seats in the March Malaysian GE notwithstanding BN govt's control of the electoral commission, judiciary, civil service and mainstream media.

1. If you are using electoral results as a basis, then WP & SDA didn't fare much better either. Under heavy fire from PAP, SDP could still manage to get 20% of the valid votes, which was commendable considering the tremendous odds it was against.

So just because Anwar's opposition managed to overcome injustices and won five states, S'poreans should allow all these PAP nonsense to continue without demanding for change. What logic is this?

 

[Alu862]

Chee is tackling the bigger issues.

What bigger issues? For Eg, he showed an article that the Singapore Dollar is falling and an article criticising MAS monetary policy. Fine. What does he have to say about it? What is the SDP's financial and monetary plan? ALL HE KNOWS IS HOW TO CRITICISE.

 

[Alu862]

1. If you are using electoral results as a basis, then WP & SDA didn't fare much better either. Under heavy fire from PAP, SDP could still manage to get 20% of the valid votes, which was commendable considering the tremendous odds it was against.

So just because Anwar's opposition managed to overcome injustices and won five states, S'poreans should allow all these PAP nonsense to continue without demanding for change. What logic is this?

What they have manged is to win the support of people while Chee has not managed to conquer a small section since he took over. Is is so simple to blame the change of 3 seats of the SDP under Chiam to 0 seats under Chee due to the PAP?

 

[chinkangkor]

2. Change is the only constant, perhaps, but then what can change are Singaporeans looking for? In any event, it is clear that the PAPs themselves realise this hence the slow but inevitable opeing up and liberalisation of the system. Singaporeans need to find their own political redemption and not just keep making references to other political systems.

Without Chee and SDP prodding and pushing, I'm afraid you'll not see any change coming from PAP, which only acceded to lost grounds but continue to make empty promises on an open society.

The experiences of other political systems are good reference materials and there is no need to reinvent the wheel and some parts may be directly applicable, others may need modifications or be rejected.

Singaporeans need to find their own political redemption, that's why Chee, SDP and some other civil groups are coming together to act as catalysts for reforms.

 

[lockeliberal]

Dear Chin

You have to win inspite of the odds to force the change you desire. The system unfair hell yes, the system biased in favor of the PAP hell yes, but you can either compete and win against all odds like PR and winning big or you can get a hundred thousand people on the streets through civil disobedience. Choose one or the other




Locke

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

Like Dr Chee you do not appear to understand the "sting" of libel

Chee said that there might be "skeletons" in LKY's closet. He didn't said that there are. See the difference?

If LKY chooses to run S'pore in a non-transparent and non-accountable manners, it is therefore perfectly legitimate for Chee as a politician to raise this possibility, as this is not something altogether impossible.

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

I suggest you first go ask DR Chee about his logic first. Dr Chee appears to claim that but for the PAP controlled political system, he would win seats.

So just because Anwar's opposition managed to overcome injustices and won five states, S'poreans should allow all these PAP nonsense to continue without demanding for change. What logic is this?

 

[chinkangkor]

On the issue of idealism, I refer specifically to my observation on Dr Chee as a politician. He appears to lack political nous. Just one eg. over the Mas Selamat Kestari fiasco, he raises valid legitimate points in the SDP blog but then spoils the effect by questioning Mas Selamat's detention under the ISA. The problem I have with Dr Chee the politician is that he appears to see things in Black and White only when the reality of politics is grey and nuanced. That is why I say Dr Chee appears to make for quite a good activist but not a successful politician.

Oh, Chee was wearing his activist hat, so next time put on your spectacles so that you can see and interpret events more clearly.

Next time please see Chee as an activist first hor, if things fit in then you don't have to see him as a politician.

 

[chinkangkor]

As an activist or as a politician or as both?

I would put it as 70% of the time as an activist and 30% of the time as a politician.

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

Dr Chee is but just one of the factors. Do not delude yourself into thinking that Dr Chee is THE factor or the most important factor. It is probably a confluence of factors both internal and external.

Without Chee and SDP prodding and pushing, I'm afraid you'll not see any change coming from PAP, which only acceded to lost grounds but continue to make empty promises on an open society.

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[Alu862]

I would put it as 70% of the time as an activist and 30% of the time as a politician.

100% activist. He has no views on even the low birth rate issue while the NSP has. He did not even mention the by election issue while the PAP formed NMPs and evn the WP debated about it.

HAND OVER THE SDP TO A PROPER POLITICIAN

 

[chinkangkor]

Like Dr Chee you do not appear to understand the "sting" of libel

There is no case, otherwise LKY would have Chee sued again.