What has Chee Soon Juan acheieved

[twochan]

Chee Soon Juan should learn from Anwar Ibrahim.

 

[chinkangkor]

No use having weak and open societies

An open society is strong and vibrant as it is tolerant of diverse views and is able to absorb shocks much better than a close society.

Open societies foster creativity, innovations and critical thinking skills, all of which are essential ingredients for a knowledge base economies.

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

Yes that is quite obvious. But what is also plainly obvious is the fact that this has now become a predictable zero sum game with Dr Chee appearing to get unnecessary free publicity for his cause. I would have thought that the PAP government would have by now come up with a fresh nuanced and sophisticated novel strategy to deal with Dr Chee instead of the same old same old.

Anyway it is also quite clear that barring some unforseen circumstances in the near to mid future, Dr Chee shall probably still not get much traction with the majority of Singaporeans based on his current stratgey because of the current socio/economic/political ground realities in Singapore. In a nutshell, Dr Chee appears to paint LKY and the PAP government as black/bad/evil when in fact this is not necessarily true. The ground reality is more grey and nunaced. LKY and the PAP government appear to be pro biz, pro $$$, greedy, elitist, pragmatic, utilitarian, cold, calculative and stingy but they have still on balance provided quite good governance. This is the realpolitik in Singapore that Dr Chee fails or does not want to understand.

The way I see it, unless Dr Chee can actually provide some concrete proof smoking guns i.e. real factual skeletons in PAPs closet as opposed to the usual baseless, unfounded assumptions, speculations and conjecture, then his political strategy shall probably not succeed even in the long run after LKY has passed on.

What we shall probably see though is the slow but eventual opening up and liberalisation of the political system no doubt assisted in some way by Dr Chee's present activism.

LKY has always been giving S'poreans a message that he will exact a heavy price on those who refuse to play by his unspoken and written rules of political engagement. Chee has broken those rules and if he is not taken to task, others will soon follow suit.

It is for the purpose of maintaining the political status quo that, even if it meant giving Chee publicity, LKY will still want to make Chee pay a price.

 

[chinkangkor]

Anyway it is also quite clear that barring some unforseen circumstances in the near to mid future, Dr Chee shall probably still not get much traction with the majority of Singaporeans based on his current stratgey because of the current socio/economic/political ground realities in Singapore. In a nutshell, Dr Chee appears to paint LKY and the PAP government as black/bad/evil when in fact this is not necessarily true. The ground reality is more grey and nunaced. LKY and the PAP government appear to be pro biz, pro $$$, greedy, elitist, pragmatic, utilitarian, cold, calculative and stingy but they have still on balance provided quite good governance. This is the realpolitik in Singapore that Dr Chee fails or does not want to understand.

It is pretty clear that it depends on how far Chee is able to push his reform agenda. Once the external political environment changes, Chee will respond with a different strategy as can be seen from his past political activities.

Chee is putting on records things which the public may be interested to know and does not shy away from exercising his right as a citizen and politician to criticise what he feels is wrong with the ways LKY and the PAP govt run S'pore, particularly the non-transparent and non-accountability aspects. PAP govt has gone to great length to discredit Chee and even to the extent of painting him as mad, a psychopath.

If you had followed Chee's past activities, you would have known that Chee fully understands the realpolitick in S'pore and he has previously given credits to PAP. However, with the political system so stilted against the opposition, he is presented with two choices: contesting in the GE with his hands tied in the existing political system or attempting to reform the political system while also participating in GE.

Chee has chosen to push for reforms to the political system and at the same time, participate in the GE.

 

[chinkangkor]

The way I see it, unless Dr Chee can actually provide some concrete proof smoking guns i.e. real factual skeletons in PAPs closet as opposed to the usual baseless, unfounded assumptions, speculations and conjecture, then his political strategy shall probably not succeed even in the long run after LKY has passed on.

You may wish to elaborate for forummers here what baseless, unfounded assumptions, speculations and conjectures have been given by Dr Chee. Otherwise you are just making baseless, unfounded assumptions, speculations and conjectures that you yourself is guilty of accusing Dr Chee.

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

Yes and likewise Dr Chee has painted LKY and the PAPs as bad black and evil. So how? Has this made any traction with the all important Singaporean centre ground? No.

Dr Chee can push all he wants but again I say that his present strategy shall probaly not cut much ice with the majority of Singaporeans because the present situation in Singapore is unlike say: India under British colonial rule; USA in the 60s with White/Black segregation; Mynmar under Junta rule or even softer positions like in say Malaysia of today or Thailand of today.

Furthermore if you look at Dr Chee's latest policy papers, with due respect it is generally soft weak and lacks depth. At the end of the day Dr Chee makes for quite a good activist but not for a successful politician, he appears too idealistic.

. PAP govt has gone to great length to discredit Chee and even to the extent of painting him as mad, a psychopath.

If you had followed Chee's past activities, you would have known that Chee fully understands the realpolitick in S'pore and he has previously given credits to PAP. However, with the political system so stilted against the opposition, he is presented with two choices: contesting in the GE with his hands tied in the existing political system or attempting to reform the political system while also participating in GE.

Chee has chosen to push for reforms to the political system and at the same time, participate in the GE.

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

I suggest you and any other interested forumers read Hugo Restall's interview with Dr Chee in FEER which is presently the subject matter of a defamation suit taken out by LKY and LHL for starters.

Btw I sat in on Dr Chee's cross examination of LKY which was fascinating to say the least, generally I think a wrong move by LKY to go down this route, however I do agree with LKY when he asked for Dr Chee to come out with the 'dirt' on LKY Dr Chee appeared to have nothing concrete or of substance to pin on LKY or LHL.

You may wish to elaborate for forummers here what baseless, unfounded assumptions, speculations and conjectures have been given by Dr Chee. Otherwise you are just making baseless, unfounded assumptions, speculations and conjectures that you yourself is guilty of accusing Dr Chee.

 

[chinkangkor]

Btw I sat in on Dr Chee's cross examination of LKY which was fascinating to say the least, generally I think a wrong move by LKY to go down this route, however I do agree with LKY when he asked for Dr Chee to come out with the 'dirt' on LKY Dr Chee appeared to have nothing concrete or of substance to pin on LKY or LHL.

What is the point of being there when you brought an empty head with you there?

The article in The Democrats raised issues of accountability and transparency in the way the PAP govt runs S'pore, which are relevant and legitimate questions for a politician to ask during election, especially after what had happened to NKF.

There is no defamation and there is no case, except in PAP's court. So what 'dirt' are you talking about? Chee was hauled to court because LKY does not tolerate anyone asking him for accountability and Chee did not in anyway said that LKY is corrupt. So how could Chee produced any 'dirt' when Chee didn't say there was 'dirt'?

You may want to know that Chee was not given due process of the law and a fair trial at all and was summarily judged to be guilty in closed chamber.

 

[chinkangkor]

I suggest you and any other interested forumers read Hugo Restall's interview with Dr Chee in FEER which is presently the subject matter of a defamation suit taken out by LKY and LHL for starters.

If LKY and Son are so confident of their case, they would have sued FEER and Restall in HK court. It is telling, isn't it, when they didn't.

 

[chinkangkor]

Yes and likewise Dr Chee has painted LKY and the PAPs as bad black and evil. So how? Has this made any traction with the all important Singaporean centre ground? No.

Dr Chee can push all he wants but again I say that his present strategy shall probaly not cut much ice with the majority of Singaporeans because the present situation in Singapore is unlike say: India under British colonial rule; USA in the 60s with White/Black segregation; Mynmar under Junta rule or even softer positions like in say Malaysia of today or Thailand of today.

Furthermore if you look at Dr Chee's latest policy papers, with due respect it is generally soft weak and lacks depth. At the end of the day Dr Chee makes for quite a good activist but not for a successful politician, he appears too idealistic.

LKY and PAP government are running S'pore and have to be accountable and transparent to the public. That is an obligation they have to fulfill to have this right to rule. You need that little grey matter in order to be able to think critically and criticise. Chee has demonstrated his intellectual ability and his intelligence. Whether he cuts any traction with the all important centre ground will vary directly to the strategies he employs, which currently are to push for reforms. The only constant, my friend, is change.

Well, it is too early to draw your conclusion now as politics is highly dynamic. There are enough people who yearn for a more open political system and level playing field, particularly the younger generation, who believe in fair competitions.

What you label as idealism is what has been taken for granted as basic necessities in developed countries i.e. an independent judiciary, independent media, peaceful protests etc.

For policy papers, you may want to debate with Ng E Jay as he has put up policy discussion papers in this forum.

 

[kakowi]

LKY and PAP government are running S'pore and have to be accountable and transparent to the public. That is an obligation they have to fulfill to have this right to rule. You need that little grey matter in order to be able to think critically and criticise. Chee has demonstrated his intellectual ability and his intelligence. Whether he cuts any traction with the all important centre ground will vary directly to the strategies he employs, which currently are to push for reforms. The only constant, my friend, is change....

If CSJ hold onto to this premise, then he should also consider that the ground is only influenced by strategies when it is virgin.

Once impressions are formed, it is very difficult to change them.

If CSJ is a counselling psychologist he will not make such a mistake.

But he is making such a mistake because he is more of a clinician, a theoretician rather than a person who understands the ground.

CSJ has limited access to the media. All the more he needs to use whatever attention he gets wisely. Otherwise he only affirms the picture of ridicule painted for him and people will view him more as an entertainer than a serious politician.

 

[chinkangkor]

If CSJ hold onto to this premise, then he should also consider that the ground is only influenced by strategies when it is virgin.

Once impressions are formed, it is very difficult to change them.

If CSJ is a counselling psychologist he will not make such a mistake.

But he is making such a mistake because he is more of a clinician, a theoretician rather than a person who understands the ground.

CSJ has limited access to the media. All the more he needs to use whatever attention he gets wisely. Otherwise he only affirms the picture of ridicule painted for him and people will view him more as an entertainer than a serious politician.

Chee is getting his priorities right. The political climate and structures will be stuck in the current state if there is no one pushing for reforms. He has been in political actions for 16 years and he has a good understanding of politics here, otherwise he won't be trying to win over the younger generation of voters, who are better able to access the internet and SDP website in particular, to form their own opinions.

Chee has set out his objectives and he will be judged according to how effective he has been in contributing to the opposition cause, given the constraints and limitations he faces.

 

[Alu862]

An open society is strong and vibrant as it is tolerant of diverse views and is able to absorb shocks much better than a close society.

Open societies foster creativity, innovations and critical thinking skills, all of which are essential ingredients for a knowledge base economies.

Open societies have weak factions using persuasion and no credible policies for the country

Democracy did not work when neo liberal ideas played out in Africa.

 

[chinkangkor]

Open societies have weak factions using persuasion and no credible policies for the country

Democracy did not work when neo liberal ideas played out in Africa.

Open societies lead to prosperous societies. S'pore is moving in the right direction.

All types of political systems don't seem to work well in most Africa countries, not just democracy.

 

[kakowi]

Chee is getting his priorities right. The political climate and structures will be stuck in the current state if there is no one pushing for reforms. He has been in political actions for 16 years and he has a good understanding of politics here, otherwise he won't be trying to win over the younger generation of voters, who are better able to access the internet and SDP website in particular, to form their own opinions.

Chee has set out his objectives and he will be judged according to how effective he has been in contributing to the opposition cause, given the constraints and limitations he faces.

I was thinking about how to reply to this post. All I can say is that a second opinion, third opinion can throw new perspectives on difficult issues.

 

[chinkangkor]

I was thinking about how to reply to this post. All I can say is that a second opinion, third opinion can throw new perspectives on difficult issues.

I agree. It makes me think as well. Thanks for replying to my posts.

 

[Alu862]

Chee does not consider that voters look for tangiable needs not just promises that gays will be included, that movies will not be ceosnored and that protests will be part of one's life. He is not a credible politician wannabe.

 

[chinkangkor]

Chee does not consider that voters look for tangiable needs not just promises that gays will be included, that movies will not be ceosnored and that protests will be part of one's life. He is not a credible politician wannabe.

Chee has never fought for uncensored movies to be screened, so you better check your facts.

Peaceful protests is a tool Chee uses to press the PAP govt for political reforms. He is engaging the PAP govt on larger issues which no other opposition politicians are intelligent and courageous enough to take up.

 

[Alu862]

Chee has never fought for uncensored movies to be screened, so you better check your facts.

Peaceful protests is a tool Chee uses to press the PAP govt for political reforms. He is engaging the PAP govt on larger issues which no other opposition politicians are intelligent and courageous enough to take up.

What larger issues? Did he do a critique of the topic of low birth rates, foreign policy and other topics in the PM's speech? no all he did was give a laugh at the liberalisation the PM promised. Has he know idea that freedom will not build a country but policies do.

Chee's supporters have fought for movies to be uncensored.

 

[chinkangkor]

What larger issues? Did he do a critique of the topic of low birth rates, foreign policy and other topics in the PM's speech? no all he did was give a laugh at the liberalisation the PM promised. Has he know idea that freedom will not build a country but policies do.

Chee's supporters have fought for movies to be uncensored.

Those who favoured looser movie censorship consisted supporters of all political colours.

The larger issues are the future of S'pore politics, how to fine tune the political system so that it is sustainable, stable, vibrant, self-rejuvenating etc. That is why political reforms come into the big picture.