How good is RSAF ?

[kingrant]

Not those Apaches, but the transport heli's with two whirlies.

What enemy fire? From Malaysia? Lol.

I want to know which helo can insert a 60 ton Leo 2? Or even a fully loaded AMX-13? We use an amphibious assault to land armour not building bridges. constructing Bridges to cover 1.6km to Malaysia, under enemy fire is very hard. The SAF technology is only as good as the people using it. I don't share your confidence.

 

[kingrant]

Because throughout history, Indonesia has been the one with the potential to give surprises. They come down from a fierce stock of people. Their army generals have a long history of coups.

They have created chaos in the past thru confrontasi, they bombed MacDonald House..landed in Pasir laba , enough to tie up the security forces here.

Why watch Indonesia? what can they do to us?

 

[Chau Ve Nist]

For the jingoistic Rambos who harbour fanciful and farfetched notions that they can do as they please including blasting refugees on sea vessels, destroying at will and wrongfully or naively believe that war is a licence to do as they please, please acquaint yourselves with the Geneva Conventions and International Humanitarian law.

http://www.icrc.org/web/eng/siteeng0.nsf/html/genevaconventions

http://www.icrc.org/web/eng/siteeng0.nsf/html/ihl

Not one Scholar General and not even Little Emperor, his family, cronies and lapdogs will dare breach International law and the Geneva Conventions.

So please forget all these fanciful and testerone-laden notions. It's okay to act out these Rambostic fantasies to impress girlfriends, wives, teenage mistresses and favourite whores about what you do during NS or Reservist training or how the SAF and you will march into Johor by lunch time. But please don't allow these fantasies to take over you to the point that you actually start believing that our paper Generals and Peng Kang Hill heat stroke veterans can actually fight a war or that war accords a licence for RSAF pilots (those that have yet to emigrate or flee the country) to do anything at will from their mighty machines.

It is important for Singaporeans to realise this as it will help moderate their hubris stemming from a misplaced superiority complex and a racist assumption that the Malays are good for nothing and will not even know how to organise themselves to fight a war let alone win one

Just learn to be humble and accept that you live in a Malay world and that unlike the Chinese or Indians, the Malays, like the Jews, have no motherland to return to should they be trounced by the mighty SAF. That can only mean that they will fight to the death, subsume themselves under a greater Indonesia or seek help from the OIC and the one billion Muslim world in order to deal decisively with the Chinese and Indian pendatangs to their region. (Of course, you can expect Al Qaeda and offshoots to voluntarily enter into the equation to deal with Singapore if the Little Satan thinks she can act like a Little America and invade a Muslim country).

In summary and as I have stated before, no wars will be fought.

 

[Papsmearer]

Not those Apaches, but the transport heli's with two whirlies.

What enemy fire? From Malaysia? Lol.

Oh, I see, the transport helis with the 2 whirlies. Got it.

 

[breakingfree]

For the jingoistic Rambos who harbour fanciful and farfetched notions that they can do as they please including blasting refugees on sea vessels, destroying at will and wrongfully or naively believe that war is a licence to do as they please, please acquaint yourselves with the Geneva Conventions and International Humanitarian law.

http://www.icrc.org/web/eng/siteeng0.nsf/html/genevaconventions

http://www.icrc.org/web/eng/siteeng0.nsf/html/ihl

Not one Scholar General and not even Little Emperor, his family, cronies and lapdogs will dare breach International law and the Geneva Conventions.

So please forget all these fanciful and testerone-laden notions. It's okay to act out these Rambostic fantasies to impress girlfriends, wives, teenage mistresses and favourite whores about what you do during NS or Reservist training or how the SAF and you will march into Johor by lunch time. But please don't allow these fantasies to take over you to the point that you actually start believing that our paper Generals and Peng Kang Hill heat stroke veterans can actually fight a war or that war accords a licence for RSAF pilots (those that have yet to emigrate or flee the country) to do anything at will from their mighty machines.

It is important for Singaporeans to realise this as it will help moderate their hubris stemming from a misplaced superiority complex and a racist assumption that the Malays are good for nothing and will not even know how to organise themselves to fight a war let alone win one

Just learn to be humble and accept that you live in a Malay world and that unlike the Chinese or Indians, the Malays, like the Jews, have no motherland to return to should they be trounced by the mighty SAF. That can only mean that they will fight to the death, subsume themselves under a greater Indonesia or seek help from the OIC and the one billion Muslim world in order to deal decisively with the Chinese and Indian pendatangs to their region. (Of course, you can expect Al Qaeda and offshoots to voluntarily enter into the equation to deal with Singapore if the Little Satan thinks she can act like a Little America and invade a Muslim country).

In summary and as I have stated before, no wars will be fought.

Bro, our forces are never train for conquering and occupying countries. Our forces are trained for only 1 purpose...to deal a fast deadly strike and paralysis the enemy within a very short time frame.
We strike only when the surivial of our country men are at stake. For example....the thingy u need to have 6 times a day as told by ur doc is turned off. So accordly to the Geneva Conventions and International Humanitarian law, we do have the rights.
Thtas why we need to strike fast and hold until the UN or aillied forces to maintain the a/m laws.
Some forummers are confident that we can really strike a decisive blow to the enemy and so do i. It is not only becos our superior man and machine..it is becos most of our doctrine are geared towards our most likely enemy..which is u noe what. And i think Our enemy doctrine are geared towards their friends up north. All this point to a very likely win for us.
And i agree with u there will be no wars....But no wars doesnt mean no need preventive measures.

 

[boundThunter]

All those Starbucks' caffeines got to your heads. LOL...

Bomb them to stone age ?

One suicide jumper at MRT also kpkb liao, imagine if war breaks out, then kpkb about the traffic chaos, hahaha....The ERPs not working too.


Oh, Oh....solly, just remember this is Singapore, where time means money.:o




Agree with these statements :

Just learn to be humble and accept that you live in a Malay world and that unlike the Chinese or Indians, the Malays, like the Jews, have no motherland to return to should they be trounced by the mighty SAF. That can only mean that they will fight to the death, subsume themselves under a greater Indonesia or seek help from the OIC and the one billion Muslim world in order to deal decisively with the Chinese and Indian pendatangs to their region. (Of course, you can expect Al Qaeda and offshoots to voluntarily enter into the equation to deal with Singapore if the Little Satan thinks she can act like a Little America and invade a Muslim country).

But no wars doesnt mean no need preventive measures.

This is the proper place for all those trash talks:

 

[Papsmearer]

Bro, our forces are never train for conquering and occupying countries. Our forces are trained for only 1 purpose...to deal a fast deadly strike and paralysis the enemy within a very short time frame.
We strike only when the surivial of our country men are at stake. For example....the thingy u need to have 6 times a day as told by ur doc is turned off. So accordly to the Geneva Conventions and International Humanitarian law, we do have the rights.
Thtas why we need to strike fast and hold until the UN or aillied forces to maintain the a/m laws.
Some forummers are confident that we can really strike a decisive blow to the enemy and so do i. It is not only becos our superior man and machine..it is becos most of our doctrine are geared towards our most likely enemy..which is u noe what. And i think Our enemy doctrine are geared towards their friends up north. All this point to a very likely win for us.
And i agree with u there will be no wars....But no wars doesnt mean no need preventive measures.

Wow, what fantastic military analysis. Our forces are not trained for conquering and occupying? What does "strike fast and hold until the UN......" is? Isn't that conquering and holding? It took months to pass the UN resolutions to retake Kuwait. The UN first has to pass the resolution to condemn the malaysians and support S'pore. This will be a tough sell as S'pore is the aggressors. All the muslim countries will be opposed to aiding S'pore, who will be portrait as lackeys of the Jews and the US. U can be sure the debates will last a long time on this. Than assuming that no country vetoes the vote, you need to get an approval, which muslim countries will vote against. Than assuming everything goes in favour of S'pore, the UN has to pass another resolution asking Malaysia turn the tap back on or else. They will give Malaysia some time to comply. If Malaysia does not, than they have to pass another resolution to approve military force. Than they need to put a coalition together and find countries that are willing to sacrifice their soldiers for sinkies to have water. Than this force has to sail all the way to SE Asia and relieve the SAF in Malaysia. Can you say 10 months at the minimum, if at all? By this time, the SAF will be bled dry by guerilla warfare, IEDs, etc.

U see how unlikely your scenario is? Read my post on this subject. S'pore's army and air force is to be use to support US interests in the area and to provide assistance to friendly countries like Brunei. The whole water thing is a red herring to distract morons from the real purpose. The SAF will not go north.

By the way, if you know anything about Geneva Conventions, you will know that we have NO RIGHTS to their water. Its theirs. If they don't want to sell it to you, no international court or law can make them do it. The PAP has trumpeted Newater, desalination plants, etc. The international community will ask why do we need malaysian water when we have all this. The PAP also trumpets our huge national reserves. The International community will simply ask why not buy the water by the tanker loads from Thailand and Indonesia, since we have the money? Do you still think they will condone an occupation up north over water? You are dreaming. They will send a military force to kick us out, not relieve us.

 

[boundThunter]

SAF personel's motivation is largely a consequence of monetary rewards and good career prospects.

It is because of the extreme fragility of average Singaporean civilian morale that major efforts have been made into stiffening the backs of Singaporeans by constantly potraying in mass media, of the formidable fighting power and capabilities of the country's armed forces. Looks like all those media indoctrinisations worked really well from the responds on this thread.

Yeah, the other side will just banbantan for the twin whirlies to drop a 60 tons MBT onto them or maybe they will bring that twin whirlies down with something as stone age as a blowpipe ??



trivia: Singapore Armed Forces are empowered(by the agreement signed) to enter Johor for the purpose of liberating their water supply if someone there is stupid enough to turn the taps off.

 

[scoobyhoo]

They are elites, if there's any war, just send them and don't ask any one else to sang xi.

 

[kingrant]

Spot on. The last thing to be cowed is any Muslim nation around us. Our capabilities tell me we can take them on any time and win.

Bro, our forces are never train for conquering and occupying countries. Our forces are trained for only 1 purpose...to deal a fast deadly strike and paralysis the enemy within a very short time frame.
We strike only when the surivial of our country men are at stake. For example....the thingy u need to have 6 times a day as told by ur doc is turned off. So accordly to the Geneva Conventions and International Humanitarian law, we do have the rights.
Thtas why we need to strike fast and hold until the UN or aillied forces to maintain the a/m laws.
Some forummers are confident that we can really strike a decisive blow to the enemy and so do i. It is not only becos our superior man and machine..it is becos most of our doctrine are geared towards our most likely enemy..which is u noe what. And i think Our enemy doctrine are geared towards their friends up north. All this point to a very likely win for us.
And i agree with u there will be no wars....But no wars doesnt mean no need preventive measures.

 

[kensington]

Spot on. The last thing to be cowed is any Muslim nation around us. Our capabilities tell me we can take them on any time and win.

And then what?
Start erecting walls encircling Geylang like the Israelis do to the Arabs?
To make walls, you need sand and where are the sand coming from?


The blessings of this arms superiority is the hope as a deterrence against any stupidities from any sides because Singapore just cannot sustain a prolong war, though asymmetrical they are as on paper.

 

[kiwibird7]

I seriously wonder where all this paranoia of invasion from Malaysia comes from? LKY's psychology of fear and the use of a siege mentality is so effective that silly S'poreans succumbed to; hook, line and sinker? What gain is there for Malaysia to invade Singapore?

Military might to secure water supply? What happened to all the so called plans for desalination, newater etc? You don't invade a country just because they don't want to supply you water anymore. Would S'pore invade Indonesia if they don't want to sell sand? Clearly, if a tiny land mass does not have enough resources to sustain further population expansion, then it has no business accepting more and more immigrants to exacerbate the problem of inadequate water, power, homes etc etc!

History has shown that MORE often than NOT, the side that strikes first, far from gaining from any pre-emptive blow advantage often results in underestimating the enemy & miscalculation leading to ruin and defeat or being bogged down in an endless war.

Japan's first strike at Pearl Harbour, Hitler's disasterous invasion of Soviet Russia, Saddam's Kuwait misadventure. Russia's Afghanistan, USA's Vietnam War, Iraq, Afghanistan are good examples of what GUNGHO belief in the military and high tech hardware can lead to.

 

[Ramseth]

Japan and Germany delivered very stunningly successful first strikes in WW2. Trouble was they got carried away, lost sight of their original war objectives, overestimated and overstreched themselves, and got mired in Russia and China.

Japan's strike on Pearl Harbor was in reaction to British and US naval blockade of Japan's oil supply route. Japan's not really interested in Malaya and Singapore, but had to invade both enroute to securing Indonesia, where the oil was enough to relieve them from Middle East oil shipping, which was also blockaded by the Royal Navy and US Navy in all Indian Ocean from Homuz Straits to Malacca Straits, a part that Japanese Navy realistically calculated that they couldn't reach yet. Knocking out RN and USN on eastern Pacific and securing Indonesia was their only realistic chance at securing oil supply.

Therein lied the dilemma. Had they abandoned China and fought full force down SEA, Britain and US might be forced to sue for peace well before the atomic bomb was invented. However, all these hostilities and blockades started exactly because Japan invaded China based on the Tanaka doctrine that considered China to be central and integral to Japanese imperial expansion war objectives.

 

[kensington]

The primary objective of SAF if war breaks out is to secure its lifeline, the water supply from Southern Johore but you guys are all talking about having lunch in Segamat and onwards to Kuala Lumpoor...

Paiseh:o...So many armchair generals in here but one word of advice, don't get lost in the real jungle out there.

 

[red amoeba]

Israel often strike first tok later.

manifest in periodic incursions into Palestine and West Bank.

If i don't remember wrongly during one of the war with Middle East, Israel actually strike first and win.

But if you are talking about grab and hold then its different, you face the media and world pressure. But out of self defense, you ought to strike first to remove capability of the enemy attacking you.

Singapore cannot afford to react only after aggression commences, by that time its too late. Hence they will strike first if there are grounds to believe that an attack is imminent.

 

[red amoeba]

Japan and Germany delivered very stunningly successful first strikes in WW2. Trouble was they got carried away, lost sight of their original war objectives, overestimated and overstreched themselves, and got mired in Russia and China.

Japan's strike on Pearl Harbor was in reaction to British and US naval blockade of Japan's oil supply route. Japan's not really interested in Malaya and Singapore, but had to invade both enroute to securing Indonesia, where the oil was enough to relieve them from Middle East oil shipping, which was also blockaded by the Royal Navy and US Navy in all Indian Ocean from Homuz Straits to Malacca Straits, a part that Japanese Navy realistically calculated that they couldn't reach yet. Knocking out RN and USN on eastern Pacific and securing Indonesia was their only realistic chance at securing oil supply.

Therein lied the dilemma. Had they abandoned China and fought full force down SEA, Britain and US might be forced to sue for peace well before the atomic bomb was invented. However, all these hostilities and blockades started exactly because Japan invaded China based on the Tanaka doctrine that considered China to be central and integral to Japanese imperial expansion war objectives.

I think the Jap shld not have even invade China...left alone, they will be too occupied to interfere in the war. Instead, they should have allied with them which will leave them free to invade SEA. Of course, on hindsight of history, I hope none of it should have happened.

Likewise for Germany, they made the fatal mistake of attacking Russia without first finishing off UK. Russia was already their ally, and they have to backstab...

 

[kingrant]

Sorry, bro. I retract that. It's got to be the fixed wing aircraft. The C-17 Globemaster is capable of lifting but not too many I concede. The Russian made Antonovs have been known to airlift a substantial number to Afghanistan. The US have been working on more efficient ways to insert armour than by ships - too slow. However, I am not sure if Singapore has these. But Johore is very very close, so we may not have to use them. Just roll across. Or via LST.

Oh, I see, the transport helis with the 2 whirlies. Got it.

 

[Ramseth]

I think the Jap shld not have even invade China...left alone, they will be too occupied to interfere in the war. Instead, they should have allied with them which will leave them free to invade SEA. Of course, on hindsight of history, I hope none of it should have happened.

Yes, sigh, hindsight of history. However, Japan saw no chance of a securing a friendly Chinese government with KMT heavily pro USA and CCP heavily pro USSR. It counted on being aided by KMT and CCP internal conflict and USA and UK tied down by Germany in Europe.

Japan conducted its own counter blockade strategy too. The entire China eastern seaboard from Korea to HK was captured first and blockaded. That's why USA couldn't attack Japan mainland until they captured Okinawa, and that's why Burma Road supply line became so strategically crucial to the then ongoing war mainland and inland into China.

Likewise for Germany, they made the fatal mistake of attacking Russia without first finishing off UK. Russia was already their ally, and they have to backstab...

That was a fatal mistake Hitler made after the fustration of the failure in Battle Of Britain. No German troops could land on Britain if the RAF was still actively prowling over the skies. It's the same as the urban legend of Indonesians landing millions of troops in Singapore. They'd be bombed from the air and drowned halfway. That's one important deterrent function of RSAF for a small country. Though Germany was numerically more powerful than Britain that time, they couldn't breach this type of defence. Somehow fated to be stupid enough, they turned around to a numerically superior Russia. If they didn't attack USSR and hold western European coasts, they'd be no D-Day strikeback landing for UK and USA, but east of Austria would all fall under USSR instead of Germany.

 

[kingrant]

If there's provocation enough or to remove a real or perceived threat, then we shldnt hesitate abt attacking them . I'll turn my back on M'sia but I'll not turn mine on Indonesia. They may not have the air and sea power to pose a threat now, but with a different regime overnight, where the military captures power again, we might see a diff Indonesia. With a weak civilian govt, there is no dearth of rival military generals vying for influence to attack another country to divert the people's attention from their economic woes.

With Indonesia, there is no buffer, so you need that first strike capability to knock out their offensive capability and if nec air/sea raids to immobilise their forces on adjacent beach-heads on their islands. This will be temporary until they cease their aggression. No holding of territory beyond what's needed to act as a buffer. These days, even deep concrete underground shelters can be penetrated with Scud missiles, so sand is no use.

So you're right - it's a deterrent to others as long as we can fight the war asymmetrically.

And then what?
Start erecting walls encircling Geylang like the Israelis do to the Arabs?
To make walls, you need sand and where are the sand coming from?


The blessings of this arms superiority is the hope as a deterrence against any stupidities from any sides because Singapore just cannot sustain a prolong war, though asymmetrical they are as on paper.

 

[kensington]

If there's provocation enough or to remove a real or perceived threat, then we shldnt hesitate abt attacking them . I'll turn my back on M'sia but I'll not turn mine on Indonesia.

With Indonesia, there is no buffer, so you need that first strike capability to knock out their offensive capability and if nec air/sea raids to immobilise their forces on adjacent beach-heads on their islands.

The sea is buffer enough against any Indons' aggresions and Malaysia, with their ethnic compositions and shared history is more a friend than a foe. But as in any relationships, nothing lasts forever, a friend today could be a deadly foe tomorrow and that is the reason why good neighbourly relationship in between them are so important but the civilians mannerism of Singaporeans are really shitty and leaves much to be desired with their own brand of higher than thou mentality towards their neighbours in particular.

The rest of the neighbours are suakus and look how sucessful the current media has been in anointing and implanting a sense of invincibility amongst the majority of the populace. The SIngaporean's Government ought to start a graciousness appreciation campaign "be nice to your neighbours be them nextdoors in the HDB or across the causeway or over the seas." That will be the first step towards acceptance by the neighbours who will reciprocate with goodwill and might even lose the bogeyman tag that are so permeating in those neighbours' mentality.

It is not in the neighbours' interest to see a ruined Singapore because in SEA all the roads lead to Singapore. A fucked up Singapore is poisonous to all concerned and will set them back many years and under no circumstances would they be stupid enough to cut off their nose to spite the face, but who knows, Saddam Hussein wasn't that smart and his fault could be repeated in this region as well.

Therefore the concept of "speaks softly but carries a damn big stick" is so important because Singapore has no ability in invading and pacifying except through the usage of soft power and the doctrinal poison shrimp's strategy; you step on my head, I will poison you to dead.

A very strong deterrent is an absolute necessity.
Let those paper generals have their toys and pays.