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Did Low Thia Khiang backstab his mentor JBJ? (Revisited)

If that was an exception and you did not expect LTK to have a witty response all the time. Can you recall a witty or incisive comment or question from LTK in parliament ever. I bet you can't.

Though some people were seeking the sacking of a minister. Nearly everyone including WP members (in private) were stunned by the lack of a response.

At the very least, he should have engaged the PM and demanded some sort or remorse or accountability.

The intelligentsia after some thought had come to the conclusion that the PM was advised correctly that LTK was unlikely to push the envelope on any matter. I think one thing that most people would agree was that they were surprised that the PM actually asked the question in the first place.



On hindsight, I told him that he should have replied to LHL, "you're the PM, what do you think?" But yes, it was opportunity lost. We can't expect him to be perfectly witty everytime, nobody can. At least he knew that calling for WKS resignation was neither politically nor constitutionally correct. You don't sack a minister just because of a jailbreak even if under death sentence unless it's a direct ministerial policy or order that caused the lapse.
 
Hopefully this debate and the outpouring of criticism by me and some here is relayed to WP. In summary, LTK at least in my opinion has to do the following
1) improve his performance in parliament significantly.
2) he needs to pick an issue that most Singaporeans are concerned about and own it. Make it his calling card in all political engagement. GMS has chosen the HDB affordability and it augurs well with the young who are worried about owning a home and the parents of these young couples. At this stage, no one knows what LTK is exactly fighting for. I do remember he mentioned accountability, but he has not done well.
3) sending Gerald Giam instead of being there is not the smartest thing to do when all eyes are on this event. Anyone who has an inkling of opposition politics will know that it is not a fringe event. It is the largest gathering ever where attendees were allowed to ask questions to all parties in Singapore politics. PAP chose not to attend and to many it poorly reflected on the PAP.
4) Find a suitable platform or media to further their cause. SDP, RP and NSP are doing it but not WP.

There is no doubt that WP is the strongest party and one that is not driven by one identity unlike its past history or like other parties. WP and LTK in particualr have delivered a good slate of candidates over the years. I rate Sylvia highly and she has done tremendous amount of damage to the PAP in parliament. During the GE, she forced the Govt to amend the regulations on stat boards on an emergency basis and that is no mean feat. In essence WP is the only party that has the benchstrength amongst all other parties to make a significant dent in the PAP's armour.
 
Someone suggested that he is a shrewd polician but after 19 years, I am still waiting for small spark to show. Correct me unless I miss something.

Bird's view on what is a schrewd politician:

1. able to win election and retain his parliamentary seat.
2. able to retain control of his party

it has no direct relationship to performance in parliament or competency in National policies, defence, economics, foreign affairs, education, etc..

in short he can be then kuku but the fact that he retains his seat and control of his party despite his kukuness means that he is a schrew politician.

Qualification: Above is just for illustration sake and i do NOT imply that LTK is kuku.
 
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If that was an exception and you did not expect LTK to have a witty response all the time. Can you recall a witty or incisive comment or question from LTK in parliament ever. I bet you can't.

Though some people were seeking the sacking of a minister. Nearly everyone including WP members (in private) were stunned by the lack of a response.

Dear Scroobal,

ACtually, Perspective has summed up quite well the kind of strategic thinking that WP has in mind. i.e. LTK is only answerable to his party and Hougang voters. Extending this strategic thinking further, it would also mean that Sylvia and the rest of WP candidates are only trying to woo the voters in those constituencies that they are contesting.

That actually explains why WP is only working hard on their grounds.

Goh Meng Seng
 
On hindsight, I told him that he should have replied to LHL, "you're the PM, what do you think?" But yes, it was opportunity lost. We can't expect him to be perfectly witty everytime, nobody can. At least he knew that calling for WKS resignation was neither politically nor constitutionally correct. You don't sack a minister just because of a jailbreak even if under death sentence unless it's a direct ministerial policy or order that caused the lapse.

if he replied to LHL, i think that is where we will lose another opposition seat in the parliament with another out of nowhere law suit.
 
Hopefully this debate and the outpouring of criticism by me and some here is relayed to WP. In summary, LTK at least in my opinion has to do the following
1) improve his performance in parliament significantly.
2) he needs to pick an issue that most Singaporeans are concerned about and own it. Make it his calling card in all political engagement. GMS has chosen the HDB affordability and it augurs well with the young who are worried about owning a home and the parents of these young couples. At this stage, no one knows what LTK is exactly fighting for. I do remember he mentioned accountability, but he has not done well.
3) sending Gerald Giam instead of being there is not the smartest thing to do when all eyes are on this event. Anyone who has an inkling of opposition politics will know that it is not a fringe event. It is the largest gathering ever where attendees were allowed to ask questions to all parties in Singapore politics. PAP chose not to attend and to many it poorly reflected on the PAP.
4) Find a suitable platform or media to further their cause. SDP, RP and NSP are doing it but not WP.

There is no doubt that WP is the strongest party and one that is not driven by one identity unlike its past history or like other parties. WP and LTK in particualr have delivered a good slate of candidates over the years. I rate Sylvia highly and she has done tremendous amount of damage to the PAP in parliament. During the GE, she forced the Govt to amend the regulations on stat boards on an emergency basis and that is no mean feat. In essence WP is the only party that has the benchstrength amongst all other parties to make a significant dent in the PAP's armour.

1) improve his performance in parliament significantly.
how so knowing ST likes to take opposition out of context and he dont speak english well? PLUS the possibility of law suits PLUS 2-4 opposition against the whole parliament?

maybe you can give some suggestions

2) he needs to pick an issue that most Singaporeans are concerned about and own it. Make it his calling card in all political engagement.

why?

3) sending Gerald Giam instead of being there is not the smartest thing to do when all eyes are on this event.

to be frank i think its smart. now we all know another newcomer in the WP and his views. frankly speaking, i never heard of gerald untill i saw the TOC video. grooming young opposition is really important especially nowadays young people tends not to care about politics anymore

4) Find a suitable platform or media to further their cause. SDP, RP and NSP are doing it but not WP.

maybe
 
That not a strategy. Its the bare minimum one has to do as an MP. I hope you are not suggesting that it is an accomplishment.

I am sure the residents of Hougang are also hoping that he will do something in Parliament.




Dear Scroobal,

ACtually, Perspective has summed up quite well the kind of strategic thinking that WP has in mind. i.e. LTK is only answerable to his party and Hougang voters. Extending this strategic thinking further, it would also mean that Sylvia and the rest of WP candidates are only trying to woo the voters in those constituencies that they are contesting.

That actually explains why WP is only working hard on their grounds.

Goh Meng Seng
 
If you are alluding that taking a seat in parliament and retaining that seat in subsequent elections is all that is needed than he does have the winning formula. In that sense he is indeed shrewd. I think you have summed it up well and that perception is being held by some.

Bird's view on what is a schrewd politician:

1. able to win election and retain his parliamentary seat.
2. able to retain control of his party

it has no direct relationship to performance in parliament or competency in National policies, defence, economics, foreign affairs, education, etc..

in short he can be then kuku but the fact that he retains his seat and control of his party despite his kukuness means that he is a schrew politician.

Qualification: Above is just for illustration sake and i do NOT imply that LTK is kuku.
 
I've been around long enough to know what WP must do which they have not and what is a matter of expectations. The discussion point started on the wrong footing. Being memorable and TOC forum? WP is weak in several areas but this?

In general, I can assure that if WP after 2006 started like how SDP in 1991, people would shoot, then revere. CSJ got the same - he was blasted for causing the loss of 3 seats. When people no longer have expectations of you, you're a hero. But without expectations come without support to those not on your side.

The thread holds split opinion - forummers not known to expect more than what has worked for WP - and that is evident and says a lot. On another LTK vs Yaacob thread, the confrontation is not enough to the same dissents. People like you, they like you. They don't, they won't.

I think to expect LTK to account for the things he did, then now expecting Ram and I have to account for LTK's account, is getting stale. JXL is right. You are not commenting or criticising, you went further to putting people to accountability as if the world needs to answer you. For?
 
I actually stated that in the my earlier post that English is a factor. I think the ST not reporting argument needs to be looked at properly. LTK did not turn up while others had their profile in public. Its a lost opportunity. LTK does not allow engagement in the Internet and he lost 2 candidates from his last slate. Anothe3r lost opportunity. Look at SDP, RP and NSP. They are bypassing ST. The younger ones are reaching out to them. SDP has begun pre-election rallies and RP is not following suit.

As to lawsuits, I hope you do realise there is something called parliamentary privileges and it was put in there to exactly twart low flying lawsuits. I think most people will laugh if you think that politicians should not speak up because of lawsuits. Might as well not stand for elections. It also suggests that he is only there to collect the MP's salary in the main.

You are asking me to suggest improving his performance. You are obviously satisfied with his parliamentary performance. You must have seen or heard things that even LTK is not aware of, let alone me.

He is a simple suggestion - make the structural unemployment affecting locals Singaporeans who are displaced by cheap labour an issue in parliament. There only 3 opposition members in Parliament. CST is disabled and that leaves LTK and Sylvia.Sylvia is doing a really good job in catching PAP off guard every now and then. Her parliamentary questions are well thought off and not meant to be antagonistic.

Maybe the more articulate members or supporters of WP can run through mock Q&A on his subject matters so that he does do better and creates a clear profile. Mock Q&A is pretty much what is done in politics anyway.

I fail to see how sending Gerald when all other parties had sent their leaders is considered a smart one. Let me turn the argument the other way - is it a mistake sending LTK then. As a Chinese Ed and someone couched in Chinese culture it shows disrespect for following the appropriate protocol. Not to mention to raise his profile. Remember when similar forums were done by NUS Students and NUSSU, it was not an issue. The TOC event was very different - the leaders were invited. I am actually amazed that some thought it was a fringe event.

Lets put it this way - What can you remember LTK for, except for winning and retaining his seat? Despite asking this question many time in this thread only GMS attempted an answer. The rest have given attributes - shrewd, tactical, organisational ability, etc but can't seem to find anything that he accomplished except winning and retaining his seat.




1) improve his performance in parliament significantly.
how so knowing ST likes to take opposition out of context and he dont speak english well? PLUS the possibility of law suits PLUS 2-4 opposition against the whole parliament?

maybe you can give some suggestions

2) he needs to pick an issue that most Singaporeans are concerned about and own it. Make it his calling card in all political engagement.

why?

3) sending Gerald Giam instead of being there is not the smartest thing to do when all eyes are on this event.

to be frank i think its smart. now we all know another newcomer in the WP and his views. frankly speaking, i never heard of gerald untill i saw the TOC video. grooming young opposition is really important especially nowadays young people tends not to care about politics anymore

4) Find a suitable platform or media to further their cause. SDP, RP and NSP are doing it but not WP.

maybe
 
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You are struggling to even mention one accomplishment for LTK after 19 years in the field of national policies. Don't have to tell me or answer me - tell the rest. I might be completely wrong.

Remember there is difference between strategy and accomplishment.

If you can't, I suggest that you don't dig a deeper hole.


I think to expect LTK to account for the things he did, then now expecting Ram and I have to account for LTK's account, is getting stale. JXL is right. You are not commenting or criticising, you went further to putting people to accountability as if the world needs to answer you. For?
 
if he replied to LHL, i think that is where we will lose another opposition seat in the parliament with another out of nowhere law suit.

It won't happen, trust me. How to lose your opposition seat just because you answered WKS should be kicked out? It is merely one's view and that view is not criminal. Law suit? How to? Please explain? The act of speaking out on whether WKS should or shouldn't go cannot lead to a lawsuit. Any lawyers here?
 
LTK may well be a 'guided' opposition member. That will explain why he did what he did and why he didn't do as much as most of us would expect. Check his background and those au fait with such matters wll know what I mean.
 
It won't happen, trust me. How to lose your opposition seat just because you answered WKS should be kicked out? It is merely one's view and that view is not criminal. Law suit? How to? Please explain? The act of speaking out on whether WKS should or shouldn't go cannot lead to a lawsuit. Any lawyers here?

hahaha...this 1 kukubird can answer...
nothing will happen as he has parliamentary immunity when speaking in parliament.
 
LTK did mention in the parliament many years ago that we need a 4th Uni, and PAP did that few years later. That's the only thing i can recall.
 
Dear Scroobal

I would rate the following most highly what most people do not see and which is his most important legacy to his party and those under him.

1. Management of the town council, he has gotten more done for far less and that body of knowledge has been passed down and will not be destroyed.

2. Management and creation of s small grass roots movement in HG away from that of the PAP. Again quietly but effectively more done with less

3. A party with stable finances.



Locke
 
That not a strategy. Its the bare minimum one has to do as an MP. I hope you are not suggesting that it is an accomplishment.

I am sure the residents of Hougang are also hoping that he will do something in Parliament.

Dear Scroobal,

Put it in proper perspective. The reason for such strategic thinking is that WP thinks no opposition parties, including WP, can replace PAP as ruling party in the next 50 years. Thus, it basically means that LTK will not live to see the transition of power and thus, his primary role is to keep the seat/seats won and continue to win many seats as possible for the time being.

It would be natural that the strategy of playing to the "right" audience on the ground which they are contesting is the choice they are making right now.

WP is basically pursuing consistently the kind of strategy that cater to their belief. There is no right or wrong here.

It would natural mean that it is not ready to play on the "National Platform" just yet, but focusing on local ground. It would also mean that its leaders will not try to be "National Leaders".

Goh Meng Seng
 
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