How Jesus ended up as God

[JohnTan]

I heartily disagree. What else do you need to know other than forgiveness which he taught? About how if you look back at your home you will get turned into salt pillars?

About how too much knowledge will lead you to being cast out? Oh wait, how about if your wife can't have a kid, both of you should ask the maid instead? A lot of interesting Jewish folk stories there for sure.

You need to know the 10 Commandments. Not that you are saved by following them religiously though. It's a good reflection of how inadequate we are, as no one is able to follow all 10 Commandments 24/7.

Most people don't like smart alecs, so they are likely to be cast out, even from their own social circles. In the ancient times, having a kid to continue to family line is of grave importance. People have been banging their maids or getting concubines.

Of course, if you choose to believe in prophecies, who am I to discourage you? Freedom to you to do so.

I encourage freedom of choice of religion and freedom of questioning the religion you are in. After all, I'm not moslem.

 

[Patriot]

Show your proof.

Where does the Old Testament predict the coming of Jesus Christ?

Question: "Where does the Old Testament predict the coming of Jesus Christ?"

Answer: There are many Old Testament prophecies about Jesus Christ. Some interpreters place the number of Messianic prophecies in the hundreds. The following are those that are considered the clearest and most important.

Regarding Jesus’ birth—Isaiah 7:14: “Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.” Isaiah 9:6: “For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.” Micah 5:2: “But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times.”

Concerning Jesus’ ministry and death—Zechariah 9:9: “Rejoice greatly, O Daughter of Zion! Shout, Daughter of Jerusalem! See, your king comes to you, righteous and having salvation, gentle and riding on a donkey, on a colt, the foal of a donkey.” Psalm 22:16-18: “Dogs have surrounded me; a band of evil men has encircled me, they have pierced my hands and my feet. I can count all my bones; people stare and gloat over me. They divide my garments among them and cast lots for my clothing.”

Likely the clearest prophecy about Jesus is the entire 53rd chapter of Isaiah. Isaiah 53:3-7 is especially unmistakable: “He was despised and rejected by men, a man of sorrows, and familiar with suffering. Like one from whom men hide their faces he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Surely he took up our infirmities and carried our sorrows, yet we considered him stricken by God, smitten by him, and afflicted. But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed. We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all. He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth.”

The “seventy sevens” prophecy in Daniel chapter 9 predicted the precise date that Jesus, the Messiah, would be “cut off.” Isaiah 50:6 accurately describes the beating that Jesus endured. Zechariah 12:10 predicts the “piercing” of the Messiah, which occurred after Jesus died on the cross. Many more examples could be provided, but these will suffice. The Old Testament most definitely prophesies the coming of Jesus as the Messiah.

Recommended Resource: God the Son Incarnate: The Doctrine of Christ by Stephen Wellum

 

[Leckmichamarsch]

MUSLIM PSEUDO MELAYU HAS NOT RIGHT COMMENTING ON JESUS
PLAIN RACIST AND DISRESPECTFUL.............MUSLIM MINDSET LIDDAT??

 

[whoami]

says the people who wrote the Koran. If god says it himself, I will believe it. Until then it's their word vs mine. Ownself say ownself is message of god is definitely NOT proof by god / of god / from god.

Until the day god says the Koran is his message, the only people saying it are the self-serving priests and whoever follows them. In short, you are not following god, but you are following people who insist they are the ones with god's message without proof. Only pompous boasters will claim they know god when it is unknowable. I'm not following pompous boasters. In fact, I think they will have to answer to god when they pass on why they keep using his name. Good luck to all of them. I don't want to spend all eternity answering for leading people without the right to do so. It's not their right to claim god's anything.

I see no god in religion only self-interest. Self-interest from the leaders who want followers who give them money and whatever else another human can give. Self-interest from followers who don't want to be left out of the good side of something all-powerful as they describe it. Nothing godly about religion. ok, ok. I will concede a few moral things here and there, but it's nowhere near god. Also because it was written by men a few non-moral things here and there too. Humans are capable of beauty, but they are not capable of being perfect. The Koran is a product of that.

Self interest? Do u know the state the Prophet, pbuh, lived during his life time? When he passed away, rich or poor? He did not ask for any recognition...no picture or statue of him. If ownself praised ownself, then u can say its his product. But no, his only mission is to spread the message of Allah azzawajal i.e. Quran.

God spoken to the Prophet, pbuh, thru the archangel Jibrail a.s. HIS message is in the Quran. And the Quran is a miracle cos it wont be perished till kingdom come. U can burn all the Quran. But the Quran will not perish. 114 surah, in the hearts of the Muslims, i.e. Hafiz. Allah had promised in the Quran tat HE will protect it. Aint it a miracle? Anyway, side note, the Quran is unique, such a way its primary mode of transmission is verbal tawatur. Not manuscript. Not dependent on physical/written text.

 

[whoami]

MUSLIM PSEUDO MELAYU HAS NOT RIGHT COMMENTING ON JESUS
PLAIN RACIST AND DISRESPECTFUL.............MUSLIM MINDSET LIDDAT??

So xtians can 24/7 comment and criticise the Prophet? Xtian pseudo cheena has no right commenting on the Prophet, pbuh. Plain racist and disrespectful.....xtians mindset liddat?

 

[syed putra]

Most people don't like smart alecs, so they are likely to be cast out, even from their own social circles. In the ancient times, having a kid to continue to family line is of grave importance. People have been banging their maids or getting concubines.

Like ceasar and Cleopatra? Eventually the kid was slaughtered i think.

 

[JohnTan]

"If Jesus had not been declared God by his followers, his followers would've remained a sect within Judaism, a small Jewish sect," says historian Bart Ehrman.

22 One day Jesus said to his disciples, “Let us go over to the other side of the lake.” So they got into a boat and set out. 23 As they sailed, he fell asleep. A squall came down on the lake, so that the boat was being swamped, and they were in great danger.

24 The disciples went and woke him, saying, “Master, Master, we’re going to drown!”

He got up and rebuked the wind and the raging waters; the storm subsided, and all was calm. 25 “Where is your faith?” he asked his disciples.

In fear and amazement they asked one another, “Who is this? He commands even the winds and the water, and they obey him.”

Luke 8:22-25


A Lame Man Healed
3 Now Peter and John went up together to the temple at the hour of prayer, the ninth hour. 2 And a certain man lame from his mother’s womb was carried, whom they laid daily at the gate of the temple which is called Beautiful, to [a]ask alms from those who entered the temple; 3 who, seeing Peter and John about to go into the temple, asked for alms. 4 And fixing his eyes on him, with John, Peter said, “Look at us.” 5 So he gave them his attention, expecting to receive something from them. 6 Then Peter said, “Silver and gold I do not have, but what I do have I give you: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, rise up and walk.” Acts 3 : 1- 6

I haven't come across anyone healing sick people in the name of Moses, King David, Adam, etc. No record of any OT prophets commanding the weather by fucking it for being a nuisance.

 

[nightsafari]

Self interest? Do u know the state the Prophet, pbuh, lived during his life time? When he passed away, rich or poor? He did not ask for any recognition...no picture or statue of him. If ownself praised ownself, then u can say its his product. But no, his only mission is to spread the message of Allah azzawajal i.e. Quran.

that's exactly it. he did not ask for any recognition. If I remember correctly, at first his wife said that he's messenger of god, but he said no he's not. He's not an attention seeking man who claim this and claim that from all that I could find. I dunno about anything else, but the only document I found is peace, peace, peace.

God spoken to the Prophet, pbuh, thru the archangel Jibrail a.s. HIS message is in the Quran. And the Quran is a miracle cos it wont be perished till kingdom come. U can burn all the Quran. But the Quran will not perish. 114 surah, in the hearts of the Muslims, i.e. Hafiz. Allah had promised in the Quran tat HE will protect it. Aint it a miracle? Anyway, side note, the Quran is unique, such a way its primary mode of transmission is verbal tawatur. Not manuscript. Not dependent on physical/written text.

This part is so counter to what Mohammed ownself say in his own produced document I don't even know what to say. I never found anything about Mohammed say promise god this or that or angels. That one so closely related to the Jewish origin and Christian version more like copy, edit, paste.

The Koran is not unique. It seems to be a derivative of the original Jewish stories. Names and angels and promises all similar, just adapted. If you believe in this, I'm sorry to say their god has specifically stated there is no place in heaven for non-Jews. And Mohammed himself said he is not the messenger of god, but Islam says he is. If you wish to take Islamic clerics word over Mohammed's that's up to you lah bang. But with a clear mind I humbly won't.

Also verbal transmission is so subject to corruption. Don't need to wait 2 centuries for the story to change. 2 days also stories change. Sorry if my opinion disagrees with you.

 

[nightsafari]

You need to know the 10 Commandments. Not that you are saved by following them religiously though. It's a good reflection of how inadequate we are, as no one is able to follow all 10 Commandments 24/7.

Most people don't like smart alecs, so they are likely to be cast out, even from their own social circles. In the ancient times, having a kid to continue to family line is of grave importance. People have been banging their maids or getting concubines.



I encourage freedom of choice of religion and freedom of questioning the religion you are in. After all, I'm not moslem.

I find the commandments useful, but limited to their time in history. By the way since you know so much of the Koran, is Moses' commandments in there?

 

[Loofydralb]

Prophecy:
"Then God said, 'Yes, but your wife Sarah will bear you a son, and you will call him Isaac. I will establish my covenant with him as an everlasting covenant for his descendants after him'" (Genesis 17:19).

Jesus the decendent of Isaac? I thought you guys called him son of god? So isaac is now a god?

Fulfillment:
"Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham's children. On the contrary, 'It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned'” (Romans 9:7).

"They" means Jesus? Is Jesus of miraculous birth or you bible lying. Or Joseph is the father. You guys getting more confusing.

Prophecy:
"Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel" (Isaiah 7:14).

So now Jesus is Immanuel? Getting convoluted now...

Fulfillment:
"The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God" (Luke 1:35).

Oh great. I would expect a prophecy about Jesus coming from the Old Testament, not the new Testament. Its like the Diciples writing their own prophecy of Jesus' coming, no?

Prophecy:
"But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah,
though you are small among the clans of Judah,
out of you will come for me
one who will be ruler over Israel,
whose origins are from of old,
from ancient times." (Micah 5:2).

Jesus never ruled Jerusalem. The Romans did. Prophecy failed.

Fulfillment:
"When he had called together all the people's chief priests and teachers of the law, he asked them where the Messiah was to be born. 'In Bethlehem in Judea,' they replied, 'for this is what the prophet has written:

"'But you, Bethlehem, in the land of Judah,
are by no means least among the rulers of Judah;
for out of you will come a ruler
who will shepherd my people Israel.'" (Matthew 2:4–6).

Again Jesus did not rule, in fact the Jews rejected him.

Prophecy:
"The animals you choose must be year-old males without defect, and you may take them from the sheep or the goats" (Exodus 12:5).

??????????????????????? WTF is this? Jesus is a goat now?

Fulfillment:
"How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God!" (Hebrews 9:14)

Again new testament prophesizing Jesus coming. Jesus disciples wrote the new testament after Jesus left the scene. How can that be a prophecy?

 

[Loofydralb]

22 One day Jesus said to his disciples, “Let us go over to the other side of the lake.” So they got into a boat and set out. 23 As they sailed, he fell asleep. A squall came down on the lake, so that the boat was being swamped, and they were in great danger.

24 The disciples went and woke him, saying, “Master, Master, we’re going to drown!”

He got up and rebuked the wind and the raging waters; the storm subsided, and all was calm. 25 “Where is your faith?” he asked his disciples.

In fear and amazement they asked one another, “Who is this? He commands even the winds and the water, and they obey him.”

Luke 8:22-25


A Lame Man Healed
3 Now Peter and John went up together to the temple at the hour of prayer, the ninth hour. 2 And a certain man lame from his mother’s womb was carried, whom they laid daily at the gate of the temple which is called Beautiful, to [a]ask alms from those who entered the temple; 3 who, seeing Peter and John about to go into the temple, asked for alms. 4 And fixing his eyes on him, with John, Peter said, “Look at us.” 5 So he gave them his attention, expecting to receive something from them. 6 Then Peter said, “Silver and gold I do not have, but what I do have I give you: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, rise up and walk.” Acts 3 : 1- 6

I haven't come across anyone healing sick people in the name of Moses, King David, Adam, etc. No record of any OT prophets commanding the weather by fucking it for being a nuisance.

So did the lame man walk?

Then now Peter can do miracles too? Damn. He is another son of god?

 

[JohnTan]

I find the commandments useful, but limited to their time in history. By the way since you know so much of the Koran, is Moses' commandments in there?

No it's not. Individual verses may appear here and there in the moslem quran, but the 10 commandments do not appear together. The pillars of the OT religious laws are the 10 commandments. The pillars of the moslem religion, equivalent of the 10 Commandments, traces its origins not in the koran, but in the hadith attributed to an angel. It wasn't even directly attributed to their moon god allah.

 

[whoami]

This part is so counter to what Mohammed ownself say in his own produced document I don't even know what to say. I never found anything about Mohammed say promise god this or that or angels. That one so closely related to the Jewish origin and Christian version more like copy, edit, paste.

The Koran is not unique. It seems to be a derivative of the original Jewish stories. Names and angels and promises all similar, just adapted. If you believe in this, I'm sorry to say their god has specifically stated there is no place in heaven for non-Jews. And Mohammed himself said he is not the messenger of god, but Islam says he is. If you wish to take Islamic clerics word over Mohammed's that's up to you lah bang. But with a clear mind I humbly won't.

Also verbal transmission is so subject to corruption. Don't need to wait 2 centuries for the story to change. 2 days also stories change. Sorry if my opinion disagrees with you.

Sorry. I dont ustand ur post? Highlighted in red.

Quran is unique cos its the only Holy book in this world that the whole 114 chapter of the Quran is being stored in Muslims heart. Letter by letter, word by word. And tere are million of hafiz four corners of the world. Nothing surprising if teres similarities between the Quran and the OT. To me is the same God, different name. But not jesus pbuh ya. The Prophet was a humble man. How could he proclaimed himself to be a King or a Prophet?

Yes. The Prophet experience is mentioned in the Quran. Read the whole context.

“It is no less than inspiration sent down to him:
He was taught by one Mighty in Power,
Endued with Wisdom: for he appeared (in stately form);
While he was in the highest part of the horizon:
Then he approached and came closer,
And was at a distance of but two bow-lengths or (even) nearer;” [Quran 53:4–9]

Also mentioned in the hadiths... Tabari and Ibn Ishaq write that Muhammad told Zubayr:

“When I was midway on the mountain, I heard a voice from heaven saying “O Muhammad! you are the apostle of Allah and I am Gabriel.” I raised my head towards heaven to see who was speaking, and Gabriel in the form of a man with feet astride the horizon, saying, “O Muhammad! you are the apostle of Allah and I am Gabriel.” I stood gazing at him moving neither forward nor backward, then I began to turn my face away from him, but towards whatever region of the sky I looked, I saw him as before.”

When we say the message is in manuscript u say written by human. Corrupted. When we say its by verbal transmission, u also say corruption. Like tat head or tail u win leow lah. C'mon lah.

Again in the Quran...prophethood mentioned:

O you who believe, obey Allah, the Messenger, and those in command among you. If you disagree about something, refer it back to Allah and the Messenger, if you believe in Allah and the Last Day. That is the best thing to do and gives the best result. (Surat an-Nisa`: 59)


وَمَا مُحَمَّدٌ إِلَّا رَسُولٌ قَدْ خَلَتْ مِنْ قَبْلِهِ الرُّسُلُ

Muhammad is not but a messenger. [Other] messengers have passed on before him. So if he was to die or be killed, would you turn back on your heels [to unbelief]? And he who turns back on his heels will never harm Allah at all; but Allah will reward the grateful. [Q3:144]


مَا كَانَ مُحَمَّدٌ أَبَا أَحَدٍ مِنْ رِجَالِكُمْ وَلَٰكِنْ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ

Muhammad is not the father of [any] one of your men, but [he is] the Messenger of Allah and last of the prophets. And ever is Allah , of all things, Knowing. [Q33:40]

 

[JohnTan]

Prophecy:
"Then God said, 'Yes, but your wife Sarah will bear you a son, and you will call him Isaac. I will establish my covenant with him as an everlasting covenant for his descendants after him'" (Genesis 17:19).

Jesus the decendent of Isaac? I thought you guys called him son of god? So isaac is now a god?

If you have no idea what 'Son of God' or 'Son of Man' means, better to do some reading instead of talking like an idiot.

6 As soon as the chief priests and their officials saw him, they shouted, “Crucify! Crucify!”

But Pilate answered, “You take him and crucify him. As for me, I find no basis for a charge against him.”

7 The Jewish leaders insisted, “We have a law, and according to that law he must die, because he claimed to be the Son of God.” - John 19 : 6 - 7

Prophecy:
"Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel" (Isaiah 7:14).

So now Jesus is Immanuel? Getting convoluted now...

You should check out what 'Immanuel' means.

Again Jesus did not rule, in fact the Jews rejected him.

Peter and the other disciples were Jews.

 

[JohnTan]

So did the lame man walk?

Then now Peter can do miracles too? Damn. He is another son of god?

muhammad made no lame person walk again. Yet you think that pedo was a prophet. Different strokes for different folks.

 

[Loofydralb]

If you have no idea what 'Son of God' or 'Son of Man' means, better to do some reading instead of talking like an idiot.

That is why the term son of god appears so many times to people other than Jesus, that makes it no longer a trinity but polytheistic religion.

You should check out what 'Immanuel' means.

Immanuel means messiah. But here is the catch. It is written in the new testament by Jesus' disciple. Its like football kelong right?

Peter and the other disciples were Jews.

And 99.99999% of Jews at that time rejected Jesus.

 

[Loofydralb]

muhammad made no lame person walk again. Yet you think that pedo was a prophet. Different strokes for different folks.

No one can do miracle on their own except thru the will of God, including Jesus. All miracles are for the people of that specific time for them to see it themselves.

Muhammad (pbuh) was given a miracle for all mankind that will last for eternity. That is the Quran. Word of God, unchanged even when gone through man's hands. For everybody. Not only for a specific people or time. That is why he is the FINAL prophet.

 

[JohnTan]

Peter and the other disciples were Jews.

And 99.99999% of Jews at that time rejected Jesus.

Wrong. Many in the early churches were Jews, including in places like Jerusalem.

Peter and the other disciples were Jews.
Immanuel means messiah. But here is the catch. It is written in the new testament by Jesus' disciple. Its like football kelong right?

If you want kelong, look at islam. Your so-called prophet is full of character flaws, but hey, you are okay with all of them, right?

 

[JohnTan]

Muhammad (pbuh) was given a miracle for all mankind that will last for eternity.

Which in simple english, means muhammad performed no miracles. His only so-called miracle was to emerge from his mother's vagina alive, like billions of other people.
Thanks for your admission.

That is the Quran. Word of God, unchanged even when gone through man's hands. For everybody. Not only for a specific people or time.

Wrong. It has already been established long ago that the quran has been edited and changed. moslems are just brainwashed into thinking that it hasn't been changed. And moslems will stage riots and looting under the excuses of blasphemy when presented with the evidence. So people refrain from doing so just to preserve the peace.

 

[Loofydralb]

Wrong. Many in the early churches were Jews, including in places like Jerusalem.

In his lifetime, it is on record he had 12. Its in your bible.

If you want kelong, look at islam. Your so-called prophet is full of character flaws, but hey, you are okay with all of them, right?

Which flaws?