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How Jesus ended up as God

nightsafari

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Nope. Prophet Muhammad pbuh never claimed himself to be God....God forbid!
haha. in Islam's case they never claimed him to be God but there are people who will kill for "insulting" him. From whatever I read about his life accounts, I seriously doubt that's he would've wanted for anyone to kill anybody.

The point is that the religion invariably and always strays away from what the founder wished for.
 

tanwahtiu

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More than 3000 denominations in Christianity religion and u want to add one more to the list?

They are selling Jesus love you story book these days. What do u suggest?


What say you and I start a church? Mainstream churches are a waste of time and preach the same old rubbish. We can innovate, and introduce new concepts and gospels.
 

glockman

Old Fart
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More than 3000 denominations in Christianity religion and u want to add one more to the list?

They are selling Jesus love you story book these days. What do u suggest?
self-knowledge is knowledge of God; the self and the divine are identical.

Second, the “living Jesus” of these texts speaks of illusion and enlightenment, not of sin and repentance, like the Jesus of the New Testament. Instead of coming to save us from sin, he comes as a guide who opens access to spiritual understanding. But when the disciple attains enlightenment, Jesus no longer serves as his spiritual master: the two have become equal–even identical.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/gnostic-gospels/
 

tanwahtiu

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Good luck.

self-knowledge is knowledge of God; the self and the divine are identical.

Second, the “living Jesus” of these texts speaks of illusion and enlightenment, not of sin and repentance, like the Jesus of the New Testament. Instead of coming to save us from sin, he comes as a guide who opens access to spiritual understanding. But when the disciple attains enlightenment, Jesus no longer serves as his spiritual master: the two have become equal–even identical.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/gnostic-gospels/
 

glockman

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JohnTan

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What new things did Jesus introduced?

Jesus didn't introduce jihad. Neither did Jesus endorse pedophila, slavery and banditry from his personal conduct. There's way better than your mohamet.

What new laws Jesus came with that previous prophets did not?

moslems use the term 'prophet' way loosely. Only a few Biblical characters were considered as prophets. Here are some examples.

Prophet - Elijah, Elisha, Samuel, Nathan, Jeremiah, Isaiah

Not a Prophet - Adam, Noah, David, Solomon.

In any case, there is only one real prophet in islam - mahomet. The others are just there for show. If you mention the word 'prophet' in islam, every moslem will know that you are referring to mahomet, not any other before him.
 

JohnTan

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haha. in Islam's case they never claimed him to be God but there are people who will kill for "insulting" him. From whatever I read about his life accounts, I seriously doubt that's he would've wanted for anyone to kill anybody.

In the moslem religion, the real god is muhammad. This 'allah' is but a figurehead who will endorse any of muhammad's actions. It's like the chink history of 3 kindoms. Everyone knows who the child emperor is, and everyone knows that the real power behind the throne is the fiend Cao Cao. It's the same with allah and muhammad.

I doubt that. moslems kill critics of muhammad partly because of religious precedents such as this.

SARIYYAH OF `UMAYR IBN `ADI Then (occurred) the sariyyah of `Umayr ibn `Adi Ibn Kharashah al-Khatmi against `Asma' Bint Marwan, of Banu Umayyah Ibn Zayd, when five nights had remained from the month of Ramadan, in the beginning of the nineteenth month from the hijrah of the apostle of Allah. `Asma' was the wife of Yazid Ibn Zayd Ibn Hisn al-Khatmi. She used to revile Islam, offend the prophet and instigate the (people) against him. She composed verses.

Umayr Ibn Adi came to her in the night and entered her house. Her children were sleeping around her. There was one whom she was suckling. He searched her with his hand because he was blind, and separated the child from her. He thrust his sword in her chest until it pierced up to her back. Then he offered the morning prayers with the prophet at al-Medina. The apostle of Allah said to him: "Have you slain the daughter of Marwan?" He said: "Yes. Is there something more for me to do?" He [Muhammad] said: "No two goats will butt together about her". This was the word that was first heard from the apostle of Allah. The apostle of Allah called him `Umayr, "basir" (the seeing).[8]
 

Hypocrite-The

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In the moslem religion, the real god is muhammad. This 'allah' is but a figurehead who will endorse any of muhammad's actions. It's like the chink history of 3 kindoms. Everyone knows who the child emperor is, and everyone knows that the real power behind the throne is the fiend Cao Cao. It's the same with allah and muhammad.

I doubt that. moslems kill critics of muhammad partly because of religious precedents such as this.

SARIYYAH OF `UMAYR IBN `ADI Then (occurred) the sariyyah of `Umayr ibn `Adi Ibn Kharashah al-Khatmi against `Asma' Bint Marwan, of Banu Umayyah Ibn Zayd, when five nights had remained from the month of Ramadan, in the beginning of the nineteenth month from the hijrah of the apostle of Allah. `Asma' was the wife of Yazid Ibn Zayd Ibn Hisn al-Khatmi. She used to revile Islam, offend the prophet and instigate the (people) against him. She composed verses.

Umayr Ibn Adi came to her in the night and entered her house. Her children were sleeping around her. There was one whom she was suckling. He searched her with his hand because he was blind, and separated the child from her. He thrust his sword in her chest until it pierced up to her back. Then he offered the morning prayers with the prophet at al-Medina. The apostle of Allah said to him: "Have you slain the daughter of Marwan?" He said: "Yes. Is there something more for me to do?" He [Muhammad] said: "No two goats will butt together about her". This was the word that was first heard from the apostle of Allah. The apostle of Allah called him `Umayr, "basir" (the seeing).[8]
U should also add in how Allah endorsed n allowed Mohd to marry his step sons wife. Allah endorsed.. where as Jesus never claim such things. He only claimed to fulfill God's will
 

whoami

Alfrescian (Inf)
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Demoted him from God's son to prophet, already pissed up the Christians liao. Don't want to say he was just a great teacher and a world class motivational speaker, confirm the Christians lagi hate me.

Tere are many xtian denominations tat believe Jesus, pbuh, is not god. :biggrin:
 

Hypocrite-The

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Is Jesus God? - Going Farther
Some say Jesus Christ was just a man, or maybe a great teacher. But He was and is much more than that. The Bible says Jesus is unique in both His person and His purpose. He wasn’t just some spiritual individual during His time on earth; He was both God’s Son (John 3:16) and God Himself—God in human flesh (1 Timothy 3:16). Yes, He was fully man, but He was also fully God (Colossians 2:9).

The claims

Jesus claimed to be God. It might be hard to understand how this could be true, but it’s important to remember that God is much bigger and more powerful than we can comprehend. We do know that Jesus said He existed before Abraham (John 8:58). He claimed that He and His Father are one (John 10:30), and that He is equal with the Father (John 5:17-18).

Not only did He claim to be God, but He also claimed to have the power of God. He said He has the authority to judge the nations (Matthew 25:31-46). He claims the authority to raise people from the dead (John 5:25-29) and to forgive sins (Mark 2:5-7)—things only God can do (1 Samuel 2:6; Isaiah 43:25).

Further, Jesus says He has the power to answer prayers (John 14:13-14), and that He will be with His followers always (Matthew 28:20). The New Testament equates Jesus to the creator of the universe (John 1:3), and in John 16:15, He says, “All that belongs to the Father is mine.”

But where’s the proof?

Claiming to be something, as Jesus claimed to be God, doesn’t make it true. Where’s the evidence that He is God?

Jesus’ identity isn’t based solely on what He says, but on what He does. And He has left a lot of evidence that He is God. That evidence includes fulfilled prophecy and recorded miracles in which Jesus reversed the laws of nature. He also lived a sinless life (Hebrews 4:15), something no one else has done.

The ultimate proof of His divinity, however, was His resurrection from the dead after His death on the cross. No one else has ever risen from the dead on his own.

Did Jesus ever say, ‘I am God’?

If someone said to you, “I am God,” would you believe him? Many people who believe in one God would think the person is blaspheming. Even if Jesus said the exact words, “I am God,” many people would not have believed Him or even heard what He had to say. Yet, He did give us reasons to believe such a claim without using these words.

In Luke 4:8, Jesus says, “It is written, ‘You shall worship the Lord your God and serve Him only.'” He said and showed many times that He is the Lord. Jesus says, for example, that He is “the first and the last” (Revelation 1:17, 22:13), which God the Father says in Isaiah 44:6.

But maybe you’re looking for a place in the Bible where Jesus says, “I am God; worship me” in those exact words. If we suggest that Jesus could only claim to be God by saying that one sentence, we might also ask where He says, “I am a great teacher, but not God,” or, “I am just a prophet; don’t worship me.” The Bible doesn’t say that, either.

The good news is that Jesus told us He is God in many different ways! He has made it clear that He and God the Father are one (John 10:30), and says in John 14:6, “I am the way and the truth and the life.” Who else could claim these things except God?

Does that mean there are multiple gods?

Believing Jesus is God doesn’t mean there are multiple gods. Followers of Jesus believe in one God in three persons.

As Billy Graham once explained, “God has shown Himself to us in three ways—as Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Each has a separate function—and yet they are all united as one God.

“Let me illustrate it this way. Have you ever thought of some of the things we see around us that are both three—and yet also one? Centuries ago, St. Patrick used a clover leaf to teach the Irish about this—it has three leaves, and yet is still only one leaf. Or think of water. A quart of water can be ice, water, or steam—but it’s still the same quart of water.”

How can Jesus be God if He is God’s Son?

If Jesus is God’s Son, does that mean God had a wife?

God has never had a wife. Calling Jesus God’s Son is an expression of His role in relation to God the Father. Unlike us, Jesus was not conceived by two earthly parents; He was born of a virgin through a miraculous work of God. He was born holy, without sin.

Being born of a virgin might seem impossible—even Jesus’ mother, Mary, asked, “How will this be? (Luke 1:34)—yet God is all-powerful and made a way for the holy Jesus to be born a human. In Matthew 1:20, an angel tells Mary’s fiancé, Joseph, that what is conceived in Mary “is from the Holy Spirit.” Jesus was not born out of a sexual relationship between God and Mary, but instead out of a miracle by God through the Holy Spirit. Jesus was both fully God and fully human.

It is also significant that the most thorough Gospel account of the virgin birth was written by Luke, a medical doctor. If anyone knew the impossibility of a virgin birth, it was Luke—yet, after careful research, he concluded that it was a fact. The God who was powerful enough to create the universe was also powerful enough to bring Jesus into the world without a human father. His miraculous birth is just one more testament to His deity.

Why should we care who Jesus is?

There is one way to heaven, one way to be free from your sin and to have a relationship with God. That’s through Jesus Christ. Acts 4:12 says, “Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.” To have eternal life in heaven, you must put your trust in Jesus. Here’s why:

We all sin, meaning we all fall short of God’s perfect standard. The consequence of sin is death (Romans 6:23). That means eternal separation from God. But because Jesus lived a sinless life, His death on the cross provided the perfect sacrifice for our sins. Because He defeated death by rising again, we can have eternal life in the presence of God when we put our trust in Him.

>> Learn more about how to trust Jesus.
Hundreds of people saw and believed in the risen Christ after His death and resurrection, and countless people in the past 2,000 years have discovered that only Jesus can meet the deepest longings and needs of the human heart. In Jesus Christ alone “are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge” (Colossians 2:3).

Can we trust what the Bible says about Him?

The Bible tells us that Jesus Christ is God, and there are many reasons we can trust the Bible. (Find “Is the Bible true?” under the Common Questions section for five of them.)

Not only do we have many reasons to believe that the text of the Bible is true, but many will find that reading the Bible allows God to speak to them—perhaps not audibly, but through His words.

While there are different translations of the Bible, the same core message is the same—that God loves us and freely offers us eternal life if we accept Jesus as our Savior. Different translations exist in an effort to make the Bible understandable to various audiences; however, the major doctrines—and the person of Jesus Christ—remain the same.

If you’re curious about Jesus or what the Bible says about Him, read the book of John in the Bible. It’s a great place to start.

pdf_icon
 

whoami

Alfrescian (Inf)
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haha. in Islam's case they never claimed him to be God but there are people who will kill for "insulting" him. From whatever I read about his life accounts, I seriously doubt that's he would've wanted for anyone to kill anybody.

The point is that the religion invariably and always strays away from what the founder wished for.

Its quite common such unfortunate case arises. I mean tere are 1.8 billion Muslims worldwide. Cant expert all to be 100%, no. Muslims love the Prophet wholeheartedly. If u study the life n history of the Prophet then u will understand why some Muslims reacted such. The prophet sacrificed so much for the ummah....for mankind..if only u understand.
 

whoami

Alfrescian (Inf)
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The christian god is so weak that humans nailed him to a cross?
And you worship that weak god? Might as well you worship the centurion who nailed him.

“Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:” [Acts:2:22]

My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”[ Mk 15:33–34 ]


And see wat Jesus pbuh say about the disciples. Just like those billion of xtians around us who still believe the divinity of jesus, pbuh. :roflmao:

This is why i speak to them in parables: "Though seeing, they do not see; thought hearing, they do not hear or understand. [Matt 13:13]
 
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Patriot

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“Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:” [Acts:2:22]

My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”[ Mk 15:33–34 ]


And see wat Jesus pbuh say about the disciples. Just like those billion of xtians around us who still believe the divinity of jesus, pbuh. :roflmao:

This is why i speak to them in parables: "Though seeing, they do not see; thought hearing, they do not hear or understand. [Matt 13:13]

 

whoami

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Yes. But the xtians will turn one big round, wrote 1000 pages thesis just to proof jesus pbuh is god. Ayoh....why go to so much trouble? If jesus, pbuh, is god, wat so difficult for him to say "I am God". Worship Me?


3 “You shall have no other gods before[a] me.

4 “You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me [Ex 20:3-5]
 

Loofydralb

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“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished."

This is the part Christians miss. Jesus did not come to enact new laws but uphold the laws of the previous prophets.

They have strayed so far from the prophets path ends up polytheistic with 3in1 and idol worship in their churches.
 

nightsafari

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Its quite common such unfortunate case arises. I mean tere are 1.8 billion Muslims worldwide. Cant expert all to be 100%, no. Muslims love the Prophet wholeheartedly. If u study the life n history of the Prophet then u will understand why some Muslims reacted such. The prophet sacrificed so much for the ummah....for mankind..if only u understand.
I've mentioned this before to people. Not here, so I write now. If you just follow Christ's examples and throw out the rest of the book, it's pretty darn good.

Similarly from what I recently learned about Mohammed's life he seems to always have sought peace. That's all I can ascertain thus far that's from his own hand. This is very understandable because of the region and time in history very turbulent. If he really bring peace to the region, he is to be commended. No debate from me.

That's the reason why I say religion gives rise to the movement away from the original teachers. I dunno whether prophet or not or whatever lah. Not my place, but I think if Mohammed alive and someone insult him you think he will condone killing? I think not. In fact, I think he will outright condemn the people who think of it. His whole life seems to be avoiding killing for whatever reason.

I've been thinking. We seem to agree little bit disagree little bit. I think the reason is that for me, the prophet, god and the religion are all separate things. You can pray to god and not be religious. You can follow Mohammed's teachings and not be religious. You can follow Mohammed and not believe in god. You can believe in god but not Mohammed.

Only religious leaders demand that it be taken together. Religion compels you to buy the whole package. You want afterlife insurance must pay zakat and sembahyang x number of times a day. But most importantly, I've yet to come across any reference where Mohammed or Jesus ownself chop and confirm say that if you don't follow the rules of religion you will go to hell. Not once have I seen this. Only in books written long after they died and cannot argue says this. This my reason lah.
 
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