How Jesus ended up as God

[syed putra]

Muhammad and his warriors killed other men and took their women for themselves. It is considered as rape, even if that practice was common long ago and deemed acceptable. You really whitewash your own prophet's history like you are ashamed of him.

The Bedouin arabs being nomadic, brought the families along during their first out of arabia conquest. The first conquest of jerusalem was done with zero bloodshed. Zero rape and no looting. But the arabs were astound to see no jews in jerusalem as the Christians had expelled them.

 

[syed putra]

Myself hardly comment on anything religious

but I must take my hat off to you

you are defending single handedly your faith , whreas a whole lot of vultures are descending on you and your faith

this topic of Islam being violent and your prophet being a pedophile had been discussed to death , but those christians and Hindus who points finger at Islam couldn’t explain the dirt within their religion themselves , eg how is it possible for Christ to be born without a father ? And Hindus have numerous of their gods born out of wedlocks as well

than the question of Mohammed’s marriage to many and very young Aisha , in today’s context it’s totally unacceptable but certainly not in his era , because marriage was one way of protecting woman to begin with ,in Mohammed days ...and many of our grandmothers were married at the age of 13 as well , not to mention that marriages of kids as young as 8 are still practiced in some parts of the world where the consumption is put on hold till their late teens but done to protect their self interests

Many of the oft repeated arguments against your faith are selective and propagated by online hate cites .

jews were the most protected community in the Islamic world but most hated in the Christian world , but today they join hand to belittle and tarnish anything and everything Islamic , so much for Jews gratefulness ...not to mention that the creation of Israel itself was paying a price for Germans atrocities of the Jewish people but it was the Palestinians who ended up as refugees

if the west was so humanitarian , Australia or US could have housed the Palestinians whose lands were given to the Zionists

In any respect , lots of respect for you having to explain single handedly against all the hatred manufactured against your faith

Wot about me?

 

[Nice-Gook]

Wot about me?

your version of Islam doesn't tally with the rest of the Islamic world

and I am in no position to be authoritative in Islam to counter you nor agree with you either

notwithstanding, quite informative...great ,keep it up

 

[nightsafari]

Ahem...u should be asking answers from a Muslim. Not fm a Non Muslim whos good in copy paste fm the net. U may as well get answers from anti-muslim website, no?

arh... I actually want answers from everyone. After comparing them all, it makes certainty. Just using myself as example, even people tell me I am wrong I appreciate because it helps clarify my own thoughts.

Of course you should know that I always value your input because you are actually living it. Insider information lah.

They have their own viewpoints. If come from anti-Muslim website then it gets very boring, very quickly. I almost always ignore it. If based on their own 1st hand experience I find more interesting.

 

[syed putra]

Getting your answers from majority muslims will probably lead you astray.
Just ask them if there is any reference for a need to have priest in Islam.

 

[whoami]

Myself hardly comment on anything religious

but I must take my hat off to you

you are defending single handedly your faith , whreas a whole lot of vultures are descending on you and your faith

this topic of Islam being violent and your prophet being a pedophile had been discussed to death , but those christians and Hindus who points finger at Islam couldn’t explain the dirt within their religion themselves , eg how is it possible for Christ to be born without a father ? And Hindus have numerous of their gods born out of wedlocks as well

than the question of Mohammed’s marriage to many and very young Aisha , in today’s context it’s totally unacceptable but certainly not in his era , because marriage was one way of protecting woman to begin with ,in Mohammed days ...and many of our grandmothers were married at the age of 13 as well , not to mention that marriages of kids as young as 8 are still practiced in some parts of the world where the consumption is put on hold till their late teens but done to protect their self interests

Many of the oft repeated arguments against your faith are selective and propagated by online hate cites .

jews were the most protected community in the Islamic world but most hated in the Christian world , but today they join hand to belittle and tarnish anything and everything Islamic , so much for Jews gratefulness ...not to mention that the creation of Israel itself was paying a price for Germans atrocities of the Jewish people but it was the Palestinians who ended up as refugees

if the west was so humanitarian , Australia or US could have housed the Palestinians whose lands were given to the Zionists

In any respect , lots of respect for you having to explain single handedly against all the hatred manufactured against your faith

No lah. I am still a student. Still learning. The more they speak ill of Islam/Prophet, the more it drive me to do some research. N tats where i learnt. Most of their comments were posted with ill intent. Only people like @nightsafari , whom i have discussed with on many occasions. I wouldnt mind putting my precious time, doing some research, just to answer his post. End of the day i have done my job. My post is not to convert one to Islam but just to clear doubts if any.

Ok. Definition of pedophile: Pedophilia, also spelled paedophilia, also called pedophilic disorder or pedophilia disorder, in conventional usage, a psychosexual disorder, generally affecting adults, characterized by sexual interest in prepubescent children or attempts to engage in sexual acts with prepubescent children.
If we read the biography of the Prophet pbuh, we know tat some of Prophet's wives were older, divorcees etc. Wat pedophilia? I do not wish to go into detail. Just to cut short, before Aisha r.a. were married to the Prophet, she was already engaged to Mutim's son. Tat shows Aisha r.a. was matured enough to marry in general. If the Prophet pbuh, did not married ‘Aisha, she would have been married to someone else within a similar time frame. So we can come to a conclusion/understandg that ‘Aisha’s age at marriage was not unusual—if not universally, at least at that time in that culture.

Haha...about the Jews. Didnt the xtians aware tat the Jews hated them? Just google the jews talmud. Read all those commandments listed in the talmud. And here we have xtians sucking up and embracing the zionist jews like gays? But tere are good orthodox God fearing Jews n xtians. The evil ones are the zionist jews/xtians. And u are right to say the Palestinians ended up as refugees. Home totally robbed by zionist jews with the help of yankee and UK.

Yes. Whoever participated in the War against ME should share responsiblilities in housing those refugees/asylum seekers as a result of their intervention/invasion. US/UK n members of NATO! ME wouldnt be in such a mess had it not been for those unnecessary massacring and killing of million of innocent lives. The West caused all those miseries and destruction of ME and now they are asking those migrants to leave? Wat a joke. In fact the West including US and UK, should compensate trillion of $$ to those ME countries as a result of their evil deeds. Especially Iraq!

 

[nightsafari]

No lah. I am still a student. Still learning. The more they speak ill of Islam/Prophet, the more it drive me to do some research. N tats where i learnt. Most of their comments were posted with ill intent. Only people like @nightsafari , whom i have discussed with on many occasions. I wouldnt mind putting my precious time, doing some research, just to answer his post. End of the day i have done my job. My post is not to convert one to Islam but just to clear doubts if any.

Thank you for your time and input! It is appreciated! No point having bad thoughts of others. Not making anyone happier. Only spreading more unhappiness around. Already plenty of nonsense in this world.

 

[nightsafari]

Getting your answers from majority muslims will probably lead you astray.
Just ask them if there is any reference for a need to have priest in Islam.

that's part of the definition of a religion no? Following priests and their directives?

If you just follow god, isn't that called following a spiritual philosophy?

 

[Patriot]

Yes, madman or something worse like the devil. So what's your point? To me, he presented two options : either he's the son of god or he's rubbish (in which case, he is a lunatic/devil). Hobson's choice? He could've presented a third option, Jesus was a wise teacher of morals. But then, that would conflict with his religious beliefs.

Is Jesus God?

Question: "Is Jesus God? Why should I believe that Jesus is God?"

Answer: Some who deny that Jesus is God make the claim that Jesus never said that He is God. It is correct that the Bible never records Jesus saying the precise words, “I am God.” This does not mean, however, that Jesus never claimed to be God.

Is Jesus God? — Jesus claimed to be God.

Take for example the words of Jesus in John 10:30, “I and the Father are one.” We need only to look at the Jews’ reaction to His statement to know He was claiming to be God. They tried to stone Him for this very reason: “You, a mere man, claim to be God” (John 10:33, emphasis added). The Jews understood exactly what Jesus was claiming—deity. When Jesus declared, “I and the Father are one,” He was saying that He and the Father are of one nature and essence. John 8:58 is another example. Jesus declared, “I tell you the truth … before Abraham was born, I am!” This is a reference back to Exodus 3:14 when God revealed Himself as the “I AM.” The Jews who heard this statement responded by taking up stones to kill Him for blasphemy, as the Mosaic Law commanded (Leviticus 24:16).

Is Jesus God? — His followers declared Him to be God.

John reiterates the concept of Jesus’ deity: “The Word [Jesus] was God” and “the Word became flesh” (John 1:1, 14). These verses clearly indicate that Jesus is God in the flesh. Acts 20:28 tells us, “Be shepherds of the church of God, which He bought with His own blood.” Who bought the church with His own blood? Jesus Christ. And this same verse declares that God purchased His church with His own blood. Therefore, Jesus is God.

Thomas the disciple declared concerning Jesus, “My Lord and my God” (John 20:28). Jesus does not correct him. Titus 2:13 encourages us to wait for the coming of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ (see also 2 Peter 1:1). In Hebrews 1:8, the Father declares of Jesus, “But about the Son He says, ‘Your throne, O God, will last forever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.’” The Father refers to Jesus as God, indicating that Jesus is indeed God.

In Revelation, an angel instructed the apostle John to only worship God (Revelation 19:10). Several times in Scripture Jesus receives worship (Matthew 2:11; 14:33; 28:9, 17; Luke 24:52; John 9:38). He never rebukes people for worshiping Him. If Jesus were not God, He would have told people to not worship Him, just as the angel in Revelation did. Beyond these, there are many other passages of Scripture that argue for Jesus being God.

Is Jesus God? — The reason Jesus must be God.

The most important reason that Jesus must be God is that, if He is not God, His death would not have been sufficient to pay the penalty for the sins of the world (1 John 2:2). A created being, which Jesus would be if He were not God, could not pay the infinite penalty required for sin against an infinite God. Only God could pay such an infinite penalty. Only God could take on the sins of the world (2 Corinthians 5:21), die, and be resurrected, proving His victory over sin and death.

Is Jesus God? Yes. Jesus declared Himself to be God. His followers believed Him to be God. The provision of salvation only works if Jesus is God. Jesus is God incarnate, the eternal Alpha and Omega (Revelation 1:8; 22:13), and God our Savior (2 Peter 1:1).

Recommended Resource: God the Son Incarnate: The Doctrine of Christ by Stephen Wellum

More insights from your Bible study - Get Started with Logos Bible Software for Free!

 

[Patriot]

 

[Nice-Gook]

Getting your answers from majority muslims will probably lead you astray.
Just ask them if there is any reference for a need to have priest in Islam.

isn't that contradictory ?

the fact that majority Muslims have certain beleif itself makes it Islamic, isn't it ?

because ,a large majority does ,as simple as that

I am not here to ascertain the right or wrong in any religion, let alone beleive in any religion ,to me all religions are man made ,and neither that maketh me against any believers since its a psychological anchor

but if majority believe that Jesus is son of God, than tyats what Christianity is all about ,that is ,a majority beleive

to me Jesus was simply a bastard born out of the wedlock...but that does not make me hate Jesus either since only our mother can actually tell us who our father is and not the one whom we beleive to be

the point and gist is ,if the majority beleive ,so be it

nevertheless ,for the purpose of discussion and for knowledge sake, your in-depth research is quite enlightening but I won't go upsetting the majority beleif by taking them to task if I were you ,unless you wish to propogate your beleif and become another Jesus or Mohammed ,but you are not doing that simply by nit picking ,you should come openly state yours and not merely pointing to what's wrong with theirs

that would make you greater

in any respect ,I do enjoy some of your post on religious affair ,that would otherwise be unknown to me

 

[whoami]

arh... I actually want answers from everyone. After comparing them all, it makes certainty. Just using myself as example, even people tell me I am wrong I appreciate because it helps clarify my own thoughts.

Of course you should know that I always value your input because you are actually living it. Insider information lah.

They have their own viewpoints. If come from anti-Muslim website then it gets very boring, very quickly. I almost always ignore it. If based on their own 1st hand experience I find more interesting.

If i were u i rather surf the net and get answers. Afterall tats how syed and the rest got those answers...fm anti-Islam websites. Syed can say this and tat on the Quran. But u ask him where he got those source from? Where his scripture?

Huh? Their own viewpoints? Didnt u notice most of them all shared the same tots? Same as wat posted in those anti-Muslim websites? LOL! I hardly come across their 1st hand experience. Lol!

 

[whoami]

that's part of the definition of a religion no? Following priests and their directives?

If you just follow god, isn't that called following a spiritual philosophy?

Nothing wrong following the Imam. Afterall the imam also follow the Quran/Hadiths. But as believers of the faith, we must take the trouble to counter check for answers too. Just to be sure wat the Imam said is according to the islamic scriptures. But if u have cleric tat said the prophet/messenger is god then tats dangerous and misleading. Tats consider as blasphemy. As god dont eat, or answer natures call.

 

[whoami]

your version of Islam doesn't tally with the rest of the Islamic world

and I am in no position to be authoritative in Islam to counter you nor agree with you either

notwithstanding, quite informative...great ,keep it up

All syed need to do is to show us his scripture? Wait a second he has none.

 

[whoami]

isn't that contradictory ?

the fact that majority Muslims have certain beleif itself makes it Islamic, isn't it ?

because ,a large majority does ,as simple as that

I am not here to ascertain the right or wrong in any religion, let alone beleive in any religion ,to me all religions are man made ,and neither that maketh me against any believers since its a psychological anchor

but if majority believe that Jesus is son of God, than tyats what Christianity is all about ,that is ,a majority beleive

to me Jesus was simply a bastard born out of the wedlock...but that does not make me hate Jesus either since only our mother can actually tell us who our father is and not the one whom we beleive to be

the point and gist is ,if the majority beleive ,so be it

nevertheless ,for the purpose of discussion and for knowledge sake, your in-depth research is quite enlightening but I won't go upsetting the majority beleif by taking them to task if I were you ,unless you wish to propogate your beleif and become another Jesus or Mohammed ,but you are not doing that simply by nit picking ,you should come openly state yours and not merely pointing to what's wrong with theirs

that would make you greater

in any respect ,I do enjoy some of your post on religious affair ,that would otherwise be unknown to me

At times i enjoy reading syed post. Quite entertaining though at times he wrote nonsense too. Must be the todi effect. First he said Quran written by man. Next he say follow the 10 commandment. Shake his head mean Yes, nod means No.

 

[nightsafari]

If i were u i rather surf the net and get answers. Afterall tats how syed and the rest got those answers...fm anti-Islam websites. Syed can say this and tat on the Quran. But u ask him where he got those source from? Where his scripture?

Huh? Their own viewpoints? Didnt u notice most of them all shared the same tots? Same as wat posted in those anti-Muslim websites? LOL! I hardly come across their 1st hand experience. Lol!

I dunno man. I don't surf anti-Islam websites. I wouldn't know what's the same or different.

My viewpoints come from people like you and watching people in action.

mmm... same thoughts? Not really. Syed Putra says that it's been changed from Mohammed's intention which is actually what I believe. John says it promotes bad practices. Hypocrite pretty close to John I guess.

You always go back to scripture. For me, I think that's a mistake. Scripture is what launched the war in the Middle East. Whether scripture in left hand or right hand (Islam or Christian) is irrelevant to me. Scripture launched that war and is being used to justify murder amongst other things. Of course there is good things too, but what's the point then??

edit : oh yeah. the internet is more full of extremist rubbish than not. All the far out views on both sides prevail. I prefer real live breathing normal people.

 

[Nice-Gook]

At times i enjoy reading syed post. Quite entertaining though at times he wrote nonsense too. Must be the todi effect. First he said Quran written by man. Next he say follow the 10 commandment. Shake his head mean Yes, nod means No.

i must diagree with you here

syed posts are quite intellectually inclined

his stand may have upset you but not me ,and i dont really care what his religious inclination are ,if any

the point being ,myself beleive in questioning almost everything that is ,in that respect I am quite agreeable with syed

but the only problem with syed is like any religious extremist ,he also insists he alone is right and the rest are wrong, that I totally disagree

 

[whoami]

I dunno man. I don't surf anti-Islam websites. I wouldn't know what's the same or different.

My viewpoints come from people like you and watching people in action.

mmm... same thoughts? Not really. Syed Putra says that it's been changed from Mohammed's intention which is actually what I believe. John says it promotes bad practices. Hypocrite pretty close to John I guess.

You always go back to scripture. For me, I think that's a mistake. Scripture is what launched the war in the Middle East. Whether scripture in left hand or right hand (Islam or Christian) is irrelevant to me. Scripture launched that war and is being used to justify murder amongst other things. Of course there is good things too, but what's the point then??

edit : oh yeah. the internet is more full of extremist rubbish than not. All the far out views on both sides prevail. I prefer real live breathing normal people.

I shall not answer for the xtians. Just the Quran. Wage war? Dont remember the Quran commanding the Muslims to go kill everyone including woman, infants and animals. Those "violence" mentioned in the Quran was during war time. No need religion. Even an atheist will strike first before getting strike by enemy, no?

 

[whoami]

i must diagree with you here

syed posts are quite intellectually inclined

his stand may have upset you but not me ,and i dont really care what his religious inclination are ,if any

the point being ,myself beleive in questioning almost everything that is ,in that respect I am quite agreeable with syed

but the only problem with syed is like any religious extremist ,he also insists he alone is right and the rest are wrong, that I totally disagree

Yes. Hes quite an intelligent ah neh. Ya..though at times he insulted the religion and the Malays. But i can still accept it. To me very simple. If he tink the Quran is fake and written by man and yet accept the 10 commandment, then where do we go from here? I mean he should tell us whether hes a jew or otherwise.

 

[Nice-Gook]

Yes. Hes quite an intelligent ah neh. Ya..though at times he insulted the religion and the Malays. But i can still accept it. To me very simple. If he tink the Quran is fake and written by man and yet accept the 10 commandment, then where do we go from here? I mean he should tell us whether hes a jew or otherwise.

i don't think syed is an ah neh,though he grudgingly admire them

myself been to every nook and corner of South Asia, not only India but Sri Lanka, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Nepal and etc ,could say i might know more than most ah nehs

syed depth of keling culture seems quite lacking and what is telling is his quest for Islamic knowledge is unmistakably glaring and he does defends malays and their culture quite often

therein lies the answer