Why the Manchurians could defeat the Ming?

[red amoeba]

I've already agreed with that and said that many times. Anyone expecting free sacrifice to protect you whether from UK or ROC. Anyone not expecting that forthcoming shouldn't be complaining about NS when you're asked to do it. You've just ratified LKY and GKS doctrine and dogma on NS. Congrats.

not only Singapore...Britain lost HK another crown jewel during WW2. If I not wrong, they also surrendered without a wimper...

 

[HedgeTrader]

not only then..now also...

US go invade Iraq just bcos they think they have WMD...after 2 years , find any shit?

then they come up and say - oh wrong intel, after they fucked up the whole country.

and thru all these, Singapore threw her weight behind US. Send SAF as part of peace keeping.

honestly, is this blind faith or what....

its like we joined a gang, we goto go chop somebody jus because the head say so, never mind if it make sense or not.

I dont care US whacking Iraq and Afghan. As long as dont whack Chinese LOL

 

[red amoeba]

I dont care US whacking Iraq and Afghan. As long as dont whack Chinese LOL

they are whacking china...in another way...

-imagine, 5 - 6% of ipad profit goes to china..>50% stay in US
-they keep badgering China to raise their RMB rates
-they impose dumping tarifs on Chinese made goods
-they recognise one China and only China, yet they continue to sell Taiwan weapons....imagine you sell Hawaii weapons right under the nose of Washington.

 

[HedgeTrader]

they are whacking china...in another way...

-imagine, 5 - 6% of ipad profit goes to china..>50% stay in US
-they keep badgering China to raise their RMB rates
-they impose dumping tarifs on Chinese made goods
-they recognise one China and only China, yet they continue to sell Taiwan weapons....imagine you sell Hawaii weapons right under the nose of Washington.

That one finance and commerce. I dont know and dont know what to say. If say wrong thing wait people say I keh kiang. Biz is biz. As long as dont fight OK lah LOL

 

[Fook Seng]

they are whacking china...in another way...

-imagine, 5 - 6% of ipad profit goes to china..>50% stay in US
-they keep badgering China to raise their RMB rates
-they impose dumping tarifs on Chinese made goods
-they recognise one China and only China, yet they continue to sell Taiwan weapons....imagine you sell Hawaii weapons right under the nose of Washington.

Unfortunately for the US, very little of the profits earned by the private sector actually goes to the Govt. Same with the weapons sale to Taiwan which is rather small, more for purpose of posturing than of commerce. And with all these, the US still chalked up incredible budget deficits, term after term, president after president. The revaluation of the RMB would only make China overtake the US in an earlier time-frame. True, China would lose some export revenues but this would be amply substituted by domestic consumption. What China would buy from the US would remain the same, IT and SW and China would also be developing these, but customized to their local requirement, especially SW. And true, they would buy more of these but do expect to take the lion share of the cake. What China is buying from the Koreans, Japanese or Europeans today, they would continue to buy from these sources. And these other countries would be the main beneficiaries not the US. US would become a super-power of the past, like many that had came and gone before them - Romans, Spanish, French and Brits.

 

[Doubblur]

It's not only US. But US, UK, France and Russia. They're running a worldwide weapon cartel after WW2. If there's no war, their weapon cartel business goes down. They must start some war somewhere sometime.

 

[Conqueror]

Buckayrow !

not only Singapore...Britain lost HK another crown jewel during WW2. If I not wrong, they also surrendered without a wimper...

Percival should be executed for surrendering 100,00 men to Japs who were running out of ammos. Useless ! Buckayrow !


Churchill viewed the fall of Singapore to be "the worst disaster and largest capitulation in British history." However, Britain's defence, the Middle East and the Soviet Union had all received higher priorities in the allocation of men and material, so the desired air force strength of 300 to 500 aircraft was never reached, and whereas the Japanese invaded with over two hundred tanks, the British Army in Malaya did not have a single one. Indeed, Churchill himself had diverted some 350 older model tanks from Malaya to the Soviet Union, following the German invasion, as a show of good faith between the allies. As they were more than a match for the light and medium Japanese tanks used in the invasion of Malaya, their presence could well have turned the tide of battle.

In 1918, Percival had been described as "a slim, soft spoken man... with a proven reputation for bravery and organisational powers" but by 1945 this description had been turned on its head with even Percival's defenders describing him as "something of a damp squib". The fall of Singapore switched Percival's reputation to that of an ineffective "staff wallah", lacking ruthlessness and aggression, even though few doubted that he was a brave and determined officer. Over six feet in height and lanky, with a clipped moustache and two protruding teeth, and unphotogenic, Percival was an easy target for a caricaturist, being described as "tall, bucktoothed and lightly built". There was no doubt his presentation lacked impact as "his manner was low key and he was a poor public speaker with the cusp of a lisp".


Damp squib ? Pipsqueak indeed ! Buckayrow !

 

[dietcoke]

u think the british was here to protect the civilians from jap rule? they were here just to protect UK interests in the far east period.

other than the airplanes where japanese were better, most other elements the british have an edge. The enfield was a much better rifle compare to the arisaka that the IJA was using. the british .303 round was a much better ammo round than the IJA 65mm. The british bren gun was the best LMG of its time. the tanks of IJA were light tanks, so british forces in malaya shd have no problem knocking out with mortars/field guns (which they fail). it not hard to knock out a tank by a infantryman in malaya jungle. The tank crew cannot see shit and it gun may not able to travse due to thick vegetations. i served in armour during NS, so i can qualify to say the main danger to a armour vehicle in a jungle is not a enemy tank but an enemy infantryman as there no way for the crew to spot enemy infantry from attacking from all sides with makeshift anti tank exposive.

u don't know about Forv meh? anything that has links with British, that indirectly linked to his X great grand parents, that indirectly linked to him, he will boast and protect the reputation of British that they were the bestest of the lot.

 

[Doubblur]

I never served NS. I was too old already when it started. But I agree with earlier postings that said, don't expect protection for free, otherwise protect yourself.

 

[Ramseth]

Ming lost China to Qing because of one simple reason. Military coup. Not much Ming army left fighting. Most of them couped and sided with Qing.

 

[Jah_rastafar_I]

ming or qing whatever. They contributed to china and made it larger and now china comes back again. Yeah stumbled here and there but picked itself up while others have fallen behind. Look at old neighbour mongolia. Used to be so powerful 800 short years ago but now reduced to nothing.

 

[Ramseth]

ming or qing whatever. They contributed to china and made it larger and now china comes back again. Yeah stumbled here and there but picked itself up while others have fallen behind. Look at old neighbour mongolia. Used to be so powerful 800 short years ago but now reduced to nothing.

You're right on here. The Mongolian and Manchurian conquest of China interim of Han rule made China bigger. Ironic but that's fact.

 

[Jah_rastafar_I]

You're right on here. The Mongolian and Manchurian conquest of China interim of Han rule made China bigger. Ironic but that's fact.

There'll still be ppl saying oh did yu know china was defeated by mongolia. Oh when was that? 200 yrs ago? 400? 500? What about today? So many of these green eyed buggers.

 

[Ramseth]

There'll still be ppl saying oh did yu know china was defeated by mongolia. Oh when was that? 200 yrs ago? 400? 500? What about today? So many of these green eyed buggers.

Tartars, Mongols and Manchurians lost bigtime by invading China. They lost everything including their ethnic identity. Only part of Mongolia was saved as Russia wants a buffer between Chinese-Russian border.

 

[sleaguepunter]

My point is don't expect everybody to be invincible everytime, don't trust them then do NS don't complain, trust yourself.

What's incompetence, that's very subjective. The British have the best war records in history among all countries, but still can't guarantee a win everytime. You and many are still brainwashed by the LKY shit that the British didn't defend us and we need to be independent and defend ourselves. Good. PAP and NS is what we get. Don't just take my word for it, go google and verify. Have to go home now, bye.

the british may have very good result in the war in other sector but in the far east, they suck. the japanese tanks were not as decisive as claim by the british historians. The thai factor should also be discounted. The invading japaese were outnumber 3-1 yet they still won. What the japanese did defied military logic in those days where invading force were normally bigger than the defending forces. The british small arms were better and more powerful than the japanese. The british artillery were in no way inferior than the japaneses. So one would expect the british should do better than what happened in 1942.

what LKY think is his own biz.(not that i ever pay any attention to what he said) i can see for myself. thanks you.

 

[sleaguepunter]

-they recognise one China and only China, yet they continue to sell Taiwan weapons....imagine you sell Hawaii weapons right under the nose of Washington.

well PRC did try to sell AK47 to the america illegaly.

 

[Fook Seng]

You're right on here. The Mongolian and Manchurian conquest of China interim of Han rule made China bigger. Ironic but that's fact.

If not careful, the US might become a part of China if it continues trying to dominate it.

 

[Sideswipe]

Tartars, Mongols and Manchurians lost bigtime by invading China. They lost everything including their ethnic identity. Only part of Mongolia was saved as Russia wants a buffer between Chinese-Russian border.

the Manchurians should be satisfied with just raiding the Chinese northern borders and invading nearby cities from time to time, instead they took advantage of the chaos in Ming then and invaded China proper. did they use Ming and China to refer to country and land respectively back then? the Mongols was a junior partner in the Manchu conquest.

 

[red amoeba]

the Manchurians should be satisfied with just raiding the Chinese northern borders and invading nearby cities from time to time, instead they took advantage of the chaos in Ming then and invaded China proper. did they use Ming and China to refer to country and land respectively back then? the Mongols was a junior partner in the Manchu conquest.

China had problems with these barbarians - Huns, Mongols, Manchus...since day one...since Qin and built the great wall to the high days of Han.

There were always stories of great generals leading expeditions to rout the Huns / foreign invaders. In fact up till 20th century, the Chinese were fighting enemies from the same continent (after that Japs).

Such expeditions drain resources and these outer tribes were playing a gureilla warfare - much like how US now hunt Taliban in Afghanistan. The Chinese emperors either appease them - by making peace with them - after they realise the problem cannot be eradicated by hunting them during the Qin & Han Dynasty, they began to pacify them by gifts / treating them with respect - and they reciprocate...giving Middle Kingdom many years of peace.

Its during the waning period of the dynasties that these outer tribes see the opportunity to grab power. But it takes 2 hands to clap, i supposed, there must also be increased oppression by Chinese ./ reduced benefits to these tribes that they began to create trouble.

So,the Chinese dynasties themselves are partially to blame...infighting (many a times due to dukes amongst themselves and the falling of power into the wrong hands eg: eunuchs)

 

[Sideswipe]

the british may have very good result in the war in other sector but in the far east, they suck. the japanese tanks were not as decisive as claim by the british historians. The thai factor should also be discounted. The invading japaese were outnumber 3-1 yet they still won. What the japanese did defied military logic in those days where invading force were normally bigger than the defending forces. The british small arms were better and more powerful than the japanese. The british artillery were in no way inferior than the japaneses. So one would expect the british should do better than what happened in 1942.

invading force bigger than defending force normal?

the Chinese outnumbered the Japanese 5:1 but the latter still overran most of China. Soviet Russians also outnumbered the Germans. what mattered were well-trained troops, proper arms and equipments and morale. eg. the Chinese central government army in 1942 had 3 men to 1 rifle, the Japanese had almost 1 man to 1 rifle. a Chinese division (7-9K) had 200-300 light machine guns and 50 heavy machine guns, a Japan division (20-25K) had 10K light machine guns and 500 heavy machine guns. it's very hard for inferior equipped Chinese troops to fight the Japanese army, outnumbered them also no use. don't know how Japan military supplies matched up compared to the US and British forces.