Why don't Singapore PROMOTE Teochew, Hokkien, Hakka, Wu, Gan speaking movie and songs

[Ramseth]

Re: Why don't Singapore PROMOTE Teochew, Hokkien, Hakka, Wu, Gan speaking movie and s

In the beginning of Taiwan, there were no Chinese or people of Chinese descent there. There were only sparse hilly tribes that had nothing to do with China. The Chinese in Taiwan mostly came from Fujian fishers and seafarers who got tired of ancient and medieval dynastic politics on China and even fugitives from Chinese imperial laws and settled in Taiwan. They did build the towns and cities of Taiwan and the hilly tribes couldn't be bothered as long as they were left alone in their own lifestyles. As years and centuries went by, ethnic Chinese became the majority in Taiwan and the whole Taiwan became de facto Chinese.

The Chinese in Taiwan still practised Chinese culture and have links of relations in China. They lived happily there as long as the Chinese dynasties didn't go to bother them, as the Chinese dynasties couldn't be bothered with them too. It was paradise without notion of country, government, police and army. It was until the Portugese and the Dutch discovered Taiwan and fought over it that China first laid claim on Taiwan officially as part of China.

 

[Conqueror]

Southerners Aren't Patriotic

In the beginning of Taiwan, there were no Chinese or people of Chinese descent there. There were only sparse hilly tribes that had nothing to do with China. The Chinese in Taiwan mostly came from Fujian fishers and seafarers who got tired of ancient and medieval dynastic politics on China and even fugitives from Chinese imperial laws and settled in Taiwan. They did build the towns and cities of Taiwan and the hilly tribes couldn't be bothered as long as they were left alone in their own lifestyles. As years and centuries went by, ethnic Chinese became the majority in Taiwan and the whole Taiwan became de facto Chinese.

The Chinese in Taiwan still practised Chinese culture and have links of relations in China. They lived happily there as long as the Chinese dynasties didn't go to bother them, as the Chinese dynasties couldn't be bothered with them too. It was paradise without notion of country, government, police and army. It was until the Portugese and the Dutch discovered Taiwan and fought over it that China first laid claim on Taiwan officially as part of China.

The PRC in the north claimed that the southerners aren't patriotic when it comes to national issues when asked to define the difference between northerners and southerners in China. What do you think ? The question is why didn't the northerners ousted the bloody Manchus ?

 

[Jah_rastafar_I]

Re: Southerners Aren't Patriotic

The PRC in the north claimed that the southerners aren't patriotic when it comes to national issues when asked to define the difference between northerners and southerners in China. What do you think ? The question is why didn't the northerners ousted the bloody Manchus ?

Btw i understand that shanghainese ppl are considered southerners. Where's the line between northern and southern again and what difference does it make? How would a southern chinese like a teochew even understand a cantonese person.

 

[Ramseth]

Re: Southerners Aren't Patriotic

The PRC in the north claimed that the southerners aren't patriotic when it comes to national issues when asked to define the difference between northerners and southerners in China. What do you think ? The question is why didn't the northerners ousted the bloody Manchus ?

It was the northerners who led the rebellion against Ming dynasty and opened the Great Wall gates to let the Manchurians in to start Qing dynasty. Most northerners considered Manchurians are Chinese too. Wu Sangui who led the assistance to Manchurians was "rewarded" by being sent deep down south to Prince of Yunnan. The title of Prince sounded nice but he didn't like his region of Yunnan where the majority was Miao Chinese, very far from the cradle of Han or Manchu Chinese. It was a political move to give him his reward but remove him far from the centre of power just in case he turncoat again, which he did, and failed. The failure cost him a sentence of clan execution. Some escaped further south across the sea to Hainan. Goh Meng Seng is one of his descendants.

By the second half of Qing dynasty rule when foreign ships kept coming, the ports opened were all in the south, Fujian and Guangzhou. Of course, the southerners have more opportunities to migrate for even more opportunities. The north was heavily guarded as the ruling Machurian homeland was in the north-east, later becoming what's commonly known as the north-east three provinces. The first Qing navy was commissioned as the northern fleet. Its duty was just to guard the north.

 

[Ramseth]

Re: Southerners Aren't Patriotic

Btw i understand that shanghainese ppl are considered southerners. Where's the line between northern and southern again and what difference does it make? How would a southern chinese like a teochew even understand a cantonese person.

Shanghai sits right in the middle, neither north or south. Why can't a Teochew person understand a Cantonese person. Li Kashing is a Teochew, the richest man in HK, a Cantonese city. Teochew people also make up of most Thai Chinese in Thailand and own most of the Thai economy.

 

[Conqueror]

Are Southerners Not Patriotic ?

Btw i understand that shanghainese ppl are considered southerners. Where's the line between northern and southern again and what difference does it make? How would a southern chinese like a teochew even understand a cantonese person.

You see, the sad part about Shanghai was the romantic lure of the yesteryears where the foreigners were there trying to make it a cosmopolitan city before the war broke out. Even the Jews who tried to escape from Europe (especially Nazi Germany) knew China as Shanghai. It's like knowing Holland instead of Netherlands. Shanghai kid ?

With that romantic lure, foreigners came back with a vengeance. The smell of money, the romance, the music, the angmohs; yes, the northerners cannot resist that. Many came with their BARBARIC tongues to slowly dilute the actual inhabitants there. I wrote once before that I feared the Shanghai we knew will be gone. The Shanghainese speak with a Taiwanese type of Mandarin or Southern version (Nanking) of Northern language. The Peking type, you know has some Manchurian's vocabulary joined to fading properties of a northern Han language. Chungking, Hokkien and Shanghai seemed to speak a tongue closer to the Taiwanese not the Peking type. I thought I told you guys about that Putian cashier girl's accent was quite Taiwanese, right ?

The southern languages of China are diverse but they retain the old ways of pronunciation as much as possible whereas the northern ones were already gone and will continue to become worse. That's why when you go to the YouTube site that I had shown you the Chinese drama with the Old Chinese dubbing, these northerners found it unintelligible and they described in the comment section as very distant from their barbaric ones. We don't find it distant if we know most of these languages well enough (advantageous to be in Singapore to know all the southern dialects in this confine space).

Pseudo Han people will never get to understand us and the ancient people of China.

 

[Conqueror]

Cao Cao And Xiahou Dun

It was the northerners who led the rebellion against Ming dynasty and opened the Great Wall gates to let the Manchurians in to start Qing dynasty. Most northerners considered Manchurians are Chinese too. Wu Sangui who led the assistance to Manchurians was "rewarded" by being sent deep down south to Prince of Yunnan. The title of Prince sounded nice but he didn't like his region of Yunnan where the majority was Miao Chinese, very far from the cradle of Han or Manchu Chinese. It was a political move to give him his reward but remove him far from the centre of power just in case he turncoat again, which he did, and failed. The failure cost him a sentence of clan execution. Some escaped further south across the sea to Hainan. Goh Meng Seng is one of his descendants.

By the second half of Qing dynasty rule when foreign ships kept coming, the ports opened were all in the south, Fujian and Guangzhou. Of course, the southerners have more opportunities to migrate for even more opportunities. The north was heavily guarded as the ruling Machurian homeland was in the north-east, later becoming what's commonly known as the north-east three provinces. The first Qing navy was commissioned as the northern fleet. Its duty was just to guard the north.

Cao Cao and Xiahou Dun had ancestry that were of the same branch as Genghis Khan and his later decendant Nurhaci. Obviously, they can't be the previous Chou or Shang people.

Sometimes, I wonder if Lee is considered as Tang people, will I still hate him ?

 

[Ramseth]

Re: Cao Cao And Xiahou Dun

Cao Cao and Xiahou Dun had ancestry that were of the same branch as Genghis Khan and his later decendant Nurhaci. Obviously, they can't be the previous Chou or Shang people.

Sometimes, I wonder if Lee is considered as Tang people, will I still hate him ?

Tang people were traditionally defined as from Great Wall to Hainan who practised Han culture and speak one of the Han-related dialects as mother tongue. Even during the era of Three Kingdoms, ethnicity was quite separate from political loyalty. Zhang Fei was loyal to Han but always identified himself as ethnic Yan (from the warring states era). It's the same even till here today. We're either Singapore Chinese, Singapore Malays, Singapore Indians, Singapore Eurasians or Singapore others.

 

[Fook Seng]

The Shanghainese speak with a Taiwanese type of Mandarin or Southern version (Nanking) of Northern language. The Peking type, you know has some Manchurian's vocabulary joined to fading properties of a northern Han language. Chungking, Hokkien and Shanghai seemed to speak a tongue closer to the Taiwanese not the Peking type. I thought I told you guys about that Putian cashier girl's accent was quite Taiwanese, right ?/QUOTE]

Nanjing and Shanghai speak Mandarin without the heavy tongue rolling as in Beijing. The Taiwanese version of Mandarin came with KMT with their root in Nanjing but over time, there are distinct local characteristics that differentiate them from the rest.

 

[Fook Seng]

The PRC in the north claimed that the southerners aren't patriotic when it comes to national issues when asked to define the difference between northerners and southerners in China. What do you think ? The question is why didn't the northerners ousted the bloody Manchus ?

Historically, it was always the north invading the south whether started by barbarians, like the Mongols or the Manchus, driving Northerners down south who in turn drove people in the south further south to places like Vietnam and Thailand. The north had to face invasion from the outside, the south most of the time from within.

Maybe because of this, the south became more focused on business and money making and it was during the late Qing period when making a living became a problem that they started the uprisings, first in the failed Taiping Uprising and then the successful Republican Revolution.

It is the South's focus on money making that the North says that they are less nationalistic. Deng Xiao Ping had been right to pick the South to start his capitalism revolution.

I remember about twenty years ago when China was less open, the Northerners were thought to be more upright and "go by the book". The Southerners were more corrupt and willing to violate the regulations. The difference has now blurred.

 

[Ash007]

Re: Southerners Aren't Patriotic

They let the manchus in what do you expect?

The PRC in the north claimed that the southerners aren't patriotic when it comes to national issues when asked to define the difference between northerners and southerners in China. What do you think ? The question is why didn't the northerners ousted the bloody Manchus ?

 

[Ramseth]

Re: Why don't Singapore PROMOTE Teochew, Hokkien, Hakka, Wu, Gan speaking movie and s

Historically, it was always the north invading the south whether started by barbarians, like the Mongols or the Manchus, driving Northerners down south who in turn drove people in the south further south to places like Vietnam and Thailand. The north had to face invasion from the outside, the south most of the time from within.

Good observation. The northern Chinese border was defined along where the Great Wall was built. Whatever happened north of that, it was undesirable grassland or snowland to central plain Chinese. That was why China wasn't bothered with what went on up there whether Mongolians or Russians etc. as long as they didn't cross the Great Wall. Mongolians could have land areas half the size of China for all they cared. Russians could have land areas twice the size of China for all they cared. It had always been northerners trying to invade and expand central and southward, driving couldn't-care-less Chinese further and further south.

In Taiwan, Hainan, Vietnam, Thailand and even Malaya, Chinese settlements began as early as Tang dynasty era. They were sailors and traders who happened to like the new lands they visited and decided to to settle there for good to get away from the seemingly endless cycles of Chinese dynastic politics and wars.

 

[myo539]

Re: Why don't Singapore PROMOTE Teochew, Hokkien, Hakka, Wu, Gan speaking movie and s

Why? Because LKY hated Chinese dialects, and promoted 华人华语.
Nothing wrong with learning Mandarin, but you should know that a unified language makes people easier to control.

Same question is applicable to why Britain don't promote British dialects instead of the Queen's English.

Was it because it was easier for the Queen to control its subjects?

Why does Indonesia adopt and promote the (Rhiau) Malay language and not Javanese (majority group), Ambionese or any of the dyaks or ibans in Kalimantan and the Batak in Sumatra?

Each country chooses a language or a dialact according to its needs. If the Taiwanese wants to promote Min Nan hokkien or the Hong Kongers want to promote cantonese, who are we to question them?

 

[The Philistine]

Re: Why don't Singapore PROMOTE Teochew, Hokkien, Hakka, Wu, Gan speaking movie and s

Hokkien is best lah bro. What dialect can fight kan nin nah buay pua chee bye li lanjiao lang hor gao kan LOL

Cantonese is vastly superior to Hokkien. It is a prestige dialect with both spoken and written forms. Cantonese is pretty much standardized; a Sinkie who can speak Cantonese will have no problem conversing with Cantonese speakers in other parts of the world. In contrast, the Sinkie version of Hokkien can only be used in Sinkieland or to some extent, in Mudland. Cantonese is elegant and melodic in its tones whereas Hokkien sounds crude.

Even when it comes to swear words and curses, Cantonese beats Hokkien all the way. Just to name a few:

Diu nei lou mou cau hai!
Ban tsat!
So hai!
Ham gaa caan!
Sek si or fan!

 

[Sideswipe]

Re: Why don't Singapore PROMOTE Teochew, Hokkien, Hakka, Wu, Gan speaking movie and s

Good observation. The northern Chinese border was defined along where the Great Wall was built. Whatever happened north of that, it was undesirable grassland or snowland to central plain Chinese. That was why China wasn't bothered with what went on up there whether Mongolians or Russians etc. as long as they didn't cross the Great Wall. Mongolians could have land areas half the size of China for all they cared. Russians could have land areas twice the size of China for all they cared. It had always been northerners trying to invade and expand central and southward, driving couldn't-care-less Chinese further and further south.

historically whoever controls manchuria controls north china, whoever dominates north china can conquer all of china. ( mongols to manchus to ccp )

think only zhu yuanzhang succeeded going from south to north to conquer china. chiang kai shek was relatively successful but his failure to effectively control north china and manchuria gave opportunities to those waiting enemies beyond the great wall. ( japan and ccp ) and sealed kmt eventual defeat.

 

[Sideswipe]

Re: Why don't Singapore PROMOTE Teochew, Hokkien, Hakka, Wu, Gan speaking movie and s

Cantonese is vastly superior to Hokkien. It is a prestige dialect with both spoken and written forms. Cantonese is pretty much standardized; a Sinkie who can speak Cantonese will have no problem conversing with Cantonese speakers in other parts of the world. In contrast, the Sinkie version of Hokkien can only be used in Sinkieland or to some extent, in Mudland. Cantonese is elegant and melodic in its tones whereas Hokkien sounds crude.

Even when it comes to swear words and curses, Cantonese beats Hokkien all the way.

i thought sg hokkien swear words are the rudest and most vulgar?

localised hokkien or not doesn't matter. i have no problems conversing with another hokkien speaker from china, taiwan or malaysia.

 

[Sideswipe]

Re: Why don't Singapore PROMOTE Teochew, Hokkien, Hakka, Wu, Gan speaking movie and s

Why does Indonesia adopt and promote the (Rhiau) Malay language and not Javanese (majority group), Ambionese or any of the dyaks or ibans in Kalimantan and the Batak in Sumatra?
Each country chooses a language or a dialact according to its needs. If the Taiwanese wants to promote Min Nan hokkien or the Hong Kongers want to promote cantonese, who are we to question them?

sg chose mandarin to have a common ethnic language with the china and taiwan. when china switched to simplified characters, we followed suit too.

 

[Forvendet]

Re: Why don't Singapore PROMOTE Teochew, Hokkien, Hakka, Wu, Gan speaking movie and s

sg chose mandarin to have a common ethnic language with the china and taiwan. when china switched to simplified characters, we followed suit too.

Why should Singapore have a common language with China and Taiwan? Singapore should use English as sole official language to unite ourselves first. All other languages and dialects to upkeep are private matters in a multi-racial country. Do you think USA was founded as all-English or even all-British? No, there were many Germans, Dutch, Italians and other Europeans there at the founding of USA too. It just happened that the English was there first to plant the flag, and all the rest accepted English as the common unifying language in order to found the country together. Singapore was founded by the English too.

 

[Liquigas]

Why don't Singapore PROMOTE Teochew, Hokkien, Hakka, Wu, Gan speaking movie and s

Each country chooses a language or a dialact according to its needs. If the Taiwanese wants to promote Min Nan hokkien or the Hong Kongers want to promote cantonese, who are we to question them?

The Taiwanese have since the late 1980s started promoting the Min Nan dialect which is spoken by the majority of the population. Min Nan is used also now in official functions as can be seen in the debate by the two VP candidates in the recent elections which was conducted in the dialect. TV and radio programmes, movies and songs are now mostly in Min Nan. Of course there is a price to be paid for this extensive usage of the local dialect and that is the standard of Mandarin invariably will fall. Taiwanese in the 1960s/1970s could speak better Mandarin than the present generation. I remember one old Taiwanese TV personality by the name of Pao Kuo Liang who could speak very good Mandarin and you now compare him to Jacky Wu to see the difference.

Shanghainese too are very proud of their dialect and heritage but somehow they never challenge the paramount status of Mandarin, the national language. News and other TV & radio programmes in Shanghai are all in Mandarin not in Shanghainese. Only in sit com do you hear the Shanghainese dialect and even these are not spoken by the main characters but usually by some minor characters or comedians. You also notice that their movies and songs are all in Mandarin. By and large, Shanghainese both young and old could speak fairly good Mandarin.

 

[Ash007]

Re: Why don't Singapore PROMOTE Teochew, Hokkien, Hakka, Wu, Gan speaking movie and s

I've asked Shanghainese here why 上海滩 wasn't in Shanghainese or if there are any Shanghainese songs? They said Shanghainese as a language itself is pretty crude and won't be able to express some of emotion in the songs. They also mentioned that Shanghai was a small fishing village and is considered pretty rural before it was colonised by the western powers. That, could be the reason why.

Shanghainese too are very proud of their dialect and heritage but somehow they never challenge the paramount status of Mandarin, the national language. News and other TV & radio programmes in Shanghai are all in Mandarin not in Shanghainese. Only in sit com do you hear the Shanghainese dialect and even these are not spoken by the main characters but usually by some minor characters or comedians. You also notice that their movies and songs are all in Mandarin. By and large, Shanghainese both young and old could speak fairly good Mandarin.