I am all for the truth and facts. However your implicit underlying tone throughout all your posts in this thread appears to indicate that you have a deep disturbing intrinsic resentment against the Singapore Malays and also contempt as well.
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This Malay feels no love from S'pore
- Thread starter peasantJUDGE
- Start date
I still stand by my earlier post and I say this having grown up with all ethnic minorities as friends, some of whom are still my friends even till today. This is a highly emotional sensitive complex and grey issue. Like I said before, Dianah's grouses have some merit and legitimacy but I think she should also realise that other ethnic minorities aren't having such a great time as well.
For instance the Singapore Eurasians were publicly classified as "Others" for years and the Singapore Indians, particularly the darker skin ones have inevitably been termed with derogatory terms like "kling", "ah neh", so much so that an MP no less had the audacity to make a derogatory joke in open parliament and only suffered a minor tap on the wrist for this, thankfully karma came full circle on this bigot who got his comeuppance later. Btw All this is just the tip of the iceberg.
What Dianah should also realise is that the Singapore Malays are the only ethnic minority group with proper designated cabinet ministerial oversight and that the government appears to be quite generous when it comes to mosque land. Look at the NDP Rally, which languages does the PM speak in?
On that note, i think Norman Vasu and his colleague were spot on to recently suggest in ST that future naturalised Singaporeans should first pass an english language proficiency test before being granted citizenship.
For instance the Singapore Eurasians were publicly classified as "Others" for years and the Singapore Indians, particularly the darker skin ones have inevitably been termed with derogatory terms like "kling", "ah neh", so much so that an MP no less had the audacity to make a derogatory joke in open parliament and only suffered a minor tap on the wrist for this, thankfully karma came full circle on this bigot who got his comeuppance later. Btw All this is just the tip of the iceberg.
What Dianah should also realise is that the Singapore Malays are the only ethnic minority group with proper designated cabinet ministerial oversight and that the government appears to be quite generous when it comes to mosque land. Look at the NDP Rally, which languages does the PM speak in?
On that note, i think Norman Vasu and his colleague were spot on to recently suggest in ST that future naturalised Singaporeans should first pass an english language proficiency test before being granted citizenship.
I digress but I am curious to know whether you have lived for a reasonable period of time in another country(s) where you were in a small ethnic minority group and if so what did you learn from the experience?
To me I think it is very healthy and enlightening for an ethnic majority to go live and work in another country where one would be an ethnic minority. I have for quite afew years and in different countries and cultures and learned to appreciate the view from the other side. It is not all black and white but grey.
To me I think it is very healthy and enlightening for an ethnic majority to go live and work in another country where one would be an ethnic minority. I have for quite afew years and in different countries and cultures and learned to appreciate the view from the other side. It is not all black and white but grey.
Anyway i have decided to step down on this sort of argument. Defending the chinese is one of the most thankless things to do in the world. They rather support another race than someone from their own kind. They are fair weather frens and only ask for help when they are in trouble. Yeah generalization but have personal experience and we like to generalize since we are only human.
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As you often like to say "perhaps you are right".
Acknowledge that other minorities have their issues.
The JI people do not represent the majority opinion of the local malays. Its a well known fact that most S'porean malays are moderate.
Besides the JI people have not faced trial to prove in a court of law that they are indeed terrorists. A trial is necessary to prove the legality of them being kept under lock and key, and to see if they are proven innocent or guilty. Besides if the government said they have overwhelming evidence, then why not try them under new terrorism laws, and then send them accordingly?
And as I said many times before, the moment you start treating all Malays as potential terrorists or terrorists, that's when they will turn against you. The same will happen if you treat anyone else as terrorists.
Do you trap a wounded tiger in a corner and you don't expect him to lash out?
i agree on the enlightenment. sometimes we have no clue our harmless gesture can invoke strong reaction from minorities until we cross to the other side. Take this photo of the spanish basketball team while preparing for beijing. Disturbing that the entire team took part willingly.
http://images.mirror.co.uk/upl/m4/aug2008/5/2/B16EF46C-9AA7-CA29-39480E79CDC6B073.jpg
Of course i have. I stayed in the great USA for a couple of years. It was a college town and since it was quite reputable they had students from all over the globe.
Over there it seemed that chinese, or namely east asians were the so-called inferior minority. They loved to harrass east asians i had a few incidents myself.
Of course i understand blacks used to get it much much worse but right now since Hip Hop was reigning and blacks are much more outspoken and have greater numbers and some are willing to fight with violence, the whites shifted their racism to other races.
Actually i really liked the US despite those incidents of racism. Met many nice and kind ppl, had cool black frens. Amazing the nicest ppl to me over there were not asians at all. Sucked to always see another black faced asian. I chose to hang out more with the Americans compared to the sinkees.
Ironically at least in your context, I became more racially aware. I contrasted the racism over here and there and obviously it is worse over there. Yet the blacks over there were also willing to discuss resonably. Chris rock for eg scolds both blacks and whites. He calls blacks niggers for not taking care of their kids making life unsafe for decent black folk. Calls whites cracker.
I then looked at the Singapore side and i realised hey why are they always complaining????? Why not look at the bright side??? Is there any racist group of chinese like the KKK that go around harrassing ppl?? Do ppl yell at someone for not being chinese?????
So why are ppl here always acting like the victims??? It is always the chinese are bad, the chinese are cruel, the chinese are ill mannered. Ppl didn't even give any incidents of so called racism they just made claims. When finally pushed some of them said, this auntie damn rude to this indian and talks down to him cos he is an indian? All this cannot be confirmed. Maybe he was unpolite that was why she was rude to him?? Maybe he exgerrated it???
There is also the trend here that makes it out that chinese males are a bunch of dorks and geeks. They made a racist show called archar showing indian FT with chinese gal something which would never have been made in the US.
Anyway i have decided to tone down on it. Speaking up for the chinese is quite thankless. At least the malays are united. Like the sinkee idol voting mentioned by the writer, they all voted for Taufik simply cos he was malay. There is nothing the chinese are going to do about it. Maybe a few will protest and be called racists by other chinese for even speaking up about it.
So let's help the malays, some malays are more frenly anyway, why toelrate another chinese's sour face?
I think you have a warped flawed irrational view when it comes to race relations in Singapore, in particular with respect to the Singapore Malays. Ironically you assert that you speak candidly and the truth disavowing PC but when I examine your statements this does not appear to be the case, I mean when it comes to the "truth".
Why can't local ethnic minorities voice their concerns so long as it is done in a genuine sincere and constructive manner? Is there is something wrong with that? Do you want them to keep quiet, paper over the 'cracks' comestically and allow things to fester foment and eventually boil over?
You want real annecdotal evidence, let me give it to you straight then, apart from the NS issue which has already been touched upon at length.
1. The well intended yet misguided HDB ethnic quota policy that at times causes real unfair and inequitable financial pain to ethnic minorities.
2. The well intended yet misguided Speak Mandarin Campaign.
3. The SAP Schools.
4. The apparent insidious manner in which some private sector companies recruit employees apparently discriminating in favour of ethnic chinese at the expense of ethnic minorities even when the ethnic minority is conversant in mandarin and dialects.
As for the States, I wonder whether you have seen Spike Lee's film "Do the right thing"? If not I suggest you go rent the dvd when you have the time. Oh and while you are at it I also suggest you read "Race: What Blacks and Whites Think and Feel About the American Obsession (1992)" by Studs Terkel
Why can't local ethnic minorities voice their concerns so long as it is done in a genuine sincere and constructive manner? Is there is something wrong with that? Do you want them to keep quiet, paper over the 'cracks' comestically and allow things to fester foment and eventually boil over?
You want real annecdotal evidence, let me give it to you straight then, apart from the NS issue which has already been touched upon at length.
1. The well intended yet misguided HDB ethnic quota policy that at times causes real unfair and inequitable financial pain to ethnic minorities.
2. The well intended yet misguided Speak Mandarin Campaign.
3. The SAP Schools.
4. The apparent insidious manner in which some private sector companies recruit employees apparently discriminating in favour of ethnic chinese at the expense of ethnic minorities even when the ethnic minority is conversant in mandarin and dialects.
As for the States, I wonder whether you have seen Spike Lee's film "Do the right thing"? If not I suggest you go rent the dvd when you have the time. Oh and while you are at it I also suggest you read "Race: What Blacks and Whites Think and Feel About the American Obsession (1992)" by Studs Terkel
I digress but had to mention this observation when I read your post. UMNO appear to have selected an interesting chap to take on Anwar in the coming by-election in Penang. Their candidate Ariff is a Nantah grad and is fluent in mandarin and chinese dialects. The ethnic chinese in Penang affectionally call him "pek moh" and OCBC - Orang China Bukan China (person chinese but not chinese, pardon my pasar malam bahasa). I always feel optimistic viz race relations when I read about such characters.
I digress but had to mention this observation when I read your post. UMNO appear to have selected an interesting chap to take on Anwar in the coming by-election in Penang. Their candidate Ariff is a Nantah grad and is fluent in mandarin and chinese dialects. The ethnic chinese in Penang affectionally call him "pek moh" and OCBC - Orang China Bukan China (person chinese but not chinese, pardon my pasar malam bahasa). I always feel optimistic viz race relations when I read about such characters.
Its no doubt interesting, but the seat is a safe seat for the Anwar family. The UMNO candidate may speak chinese and the chinese dialects, but the backstabbing and reckless innuendo done by his parent party- and besides the food and oil inflation in recent months- will do so much damage to his bid that not many would be swayed by million of ringgits in promises. Unlike S'poreans, Malaysians are not that naive, and taken in by false promises and money by their politicians.
You damn right brader...
I'm not Malay but I've seen enuff to know those Malays in the region are damn jealous of the Malays in Singapore cos the guys here are more intelligent and more successful...
I think the Malays now don't mind pointing a gun at their neighbours without feeling guilty...
Anyway I doubt all the Malays voted during the SG Idol finals... The other finalists were not good or talented to make it anyway, esp that Sylvester Sim who cant sing...
I'm not Malay but I've seen enuff to know those Malays in the region are damn jealous of the Malays in Singapore cos the guys here are more intelligent and more successful...
I think the Malays now don't mind pointing a gun at their neighbours without feeling guilty...
Anyway I doubt all the Malays voted during the SG Idol finals... The other finalists were not good or talented to make it anyway, esp that Sylvester Sim who cant sing...
Racism, discrimination, etc is not confined to any one particular race. Human beings no matter what their race are, are generally good. Unfortunately some races based on a whole host of variables such as terrain, climate etc have advanced far more than others.
Racism however rears its ugly head when one race dominates others usually in a political setting. Politicians aggravate the situation by playing the race card when the ignorant and the less educated exist in sizeable numbers.
Lets not worry about what happens in Malaysia where the Malays dominate, or about Australia where the Caucasians dominate. Lets worry about Singapore where we can be a shining example. Our record compared to the rest of the world is still better. Its was actually progressing well until the major blunder by Goh Chok Tong while Prime Minister set in motion a series of events that led to race based policies such as housing and self help groups. It has been said along the corridors of power that political acumen was not his forte and this unfortunately seems to be case. The guy was truly bushwhacked.
I am glad that Dinah had her say and had the courage to dig deep and raise an issue that was previously raised by a non-singaporean, Mahathir whose love of the bogeyman is legendary.
Hopefully the other minorities will say their piece and we can start dismantling the race based framework that suddenly appeared from nowhere.
As the majority, we should not feel insecure neither should we be coy when reverse discrimination as it occurs in the liberal west from time to time surfaces.
We should be magnanimous in making the first move. We have done well in many aspects and a showcase for the region, why not make race relationship exemplary. We would truly be a nation when the terms "race" or "race based issues" are no longer in our vocabulary.
Racism however rears its ugly head when one race dominates others usually in a political setting. Politicians aggravate the situation by playing the race card when the ignorant and the less educated exist in sizeable numbers.
Lets not worry about what happens in Malaysia where the Malays dominate, or about Australia where the Caucasians dominate. Lets worry about Singapore where we can be a shining example. Our record compared to the rest of the world is still better. Its was actually progressing well until the major blunder by Goh Chok Tong while Prime Minister set in motion a series of events that led to race based policies such as housing and self help groups. It has been said along the corridors of power that political acumen was not his forte and this unfortunately seems to be case. The guy was truly bushwhacked.
I am glad that Dinah had her say and had the courage to dig deep and raise an issue that was previously raised by a non-singaporean, Mahathir whose love of the bogeyman is legendary.
Hopefully the other minorities will say their piece and we can start dismantling the race based framework that suddenly appeared from nowhere.
As the majority, we should not feel insecure neither should we be coy when reverse discrimination as it occurs in the liberal west from time to time surfaces.
We should be magnanimous in making the first move. We have done well in many aspects and a showcase for the region, why not make race relationship exemplary. We would truly be a nation when the terms "race" or "race based issues" are no longer in our vocabulary.
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I think you have a warped flawed irrational view when it comes to race relations in Singapore, in particular with respect to the Singapore Malays. Ironically you assert that you speak candidly and the truth disavowing PC but when I examine your statements this does not appear to be the case, I mean when it comes to the "truth".
Why can't local ethnic minorities voice their concerns so long as it is done in a genuine sincere and constructive manner? Is there is something wrong with that? Do you want them to keep quiet, paper over the 'cracks' comestically and allow things to fester foment and eventually boil over?
You want real annecdotal evidence, let me give it to you straight then, apart from the NS issue which has already been touched upon at length.
1. The well intended yet misguided HDB ethnic quota policy that at times causes real unfair and inequitable financial pain to ethnic minorities.
2. The well intended yet misguided Speak Mandarin Campaign.
3. The SAP Schools.
4. The apparent insidious manner in which some private sector companies recruit employees apparently discriminating in favour of ethnic chinese at the expense of ethnic minorities even when the ethnic minority is conversant in mandarin and dialects.
As for the States, I wonder whether you have seen Spike Lee's film "Do the right thing"? If not I suggest you go rent the dvd when you have the time. Oh and while you are at it I also suggest you read "Race: What Blacks and Whites Think and Feel About the American Obsession (1992)" by Studs Terkel
Pray tell in what way do i have a warped and irriational view of it???????
I have voiced my opinions and these are facts. This is one of the most peaceful nations in the world. One of the few places where being a minority and u will not get harrassed. Many of the shop sellers for eg are older generation and do not know how to speak english that well but will cater not only to minorities but foreigners as well in english. One of the many many examples.
This is rather ironic. The malays in malaysia for eg are the majority. They have polices in place that protect them from minorities. U are almost guranteed success for being a bumi over a non bumi in malaysia. Yet for all this they are jealous of the malays here. Why is this so? Aren't the malays here always getting bullied by the chinese? Always stereotyped by them as lazy, lowly paid blue collar workers for eg?So why the jealousy??
Doesn's this bode that the malays here do not really have it that bad?? Yet non of you have voiced this out. You all have come along one line. Instead of looking at both sides of the picture, everyone makes generalized statements like see malays are nice ppl, they are not ambitious so they will not steal ur high playing job. This does not mean they won't, they do not because they are not interested in doing it does not mean that it makes them better humans. ANyway back to what some of you have written. They are nice, friendly as if to denote there are no rude, unfriendly malays and all chinese are rude and unfriendly?
Btw why do you put words into my mouth? I did not say they are not allowed to voice out whatever grouses they have. Since when? They are allowed to do so, yet once they do it deserves to be scrutinized and looked to see if it they are reasonable and if they are allowed to voice it out why am i not allowed to voice out my own opinions? Another biased view again.
Btw if things were about to fester and boil over like you so ambicably put it why have they not? In the last GE it was stated by some forummers that the malay vote allowed the PAP to secure a majority win in some constiuencies. Obviously many of the polices are put in place by the PAP and many malays are happy with them.
Anyway let's go through your examples of racial discrmination here,
1. The quota is to prevent racial enclaves. Like i mentioned in one of my earlier posts. This is to prevent some areas from becoming predominantly one race. I gave an example which is France where a white French man risks getting harrassed by minorities in his own country. Obviously from the past where the racial riots occured it was a good move by PAP to prevent any area from becoming a racial enclave. The chinese have also been good by treating minorities fairly despite being the majority in some areas.
2. What exactly is wrong with the speak mandarin campaign???? You didn not even give any reaons behind it. Obviously the govt felt many sinkee chinese were not learning their mother tongue so they created this campaign to try and encourage them. Why u want a speak malay and speak tamil campaign along with the speak mandarin campaign? Or was the speak mandarin campaign targetted at non chinese too to force them to speak mandarin? Obviously riddiculous anyone knows that was not the case.
3. The formation of SAP schools is to help further those showing prospects in their mother tongue or mandarin. Now what does a school need to keep it running?? Students. What is the majority race in SG? So which language should be given more resources and attention to since the majority race speaks that language?? Now say they wanted to have tamil SAP schools for eg. Would the enrollment be large enough for even 1 school to be formed?
4. These companies are their own seperate entities which are not under the control of the government.
Right now this is like enroaching on the individual thoughts and likes or dislikes of the people. I believe that in SG everyone is at least entitled to his own opinion even if some of them cannot be publicly voiced out. Btw how about the 'apparent insidious manner" in which some companies only employ malays or indians???? Why no mention of them? So it is okay to be racist to chinese? Like how a certain bank or some banks seem to be filled only with indians or how delivery, fast food places only seem to be filled with malays. Seems like they discriminate against chinese over there.
About the states now it seems u have changed the context. Remember what you asked me initially? You asked me if i have stayed in a country where i was a minority. I said yes i have. I described my experiences over there and what conclusions i have come to which tallies with the situation over there in the States but sadly was not the sort of reaction u were hoping to get from me. So now u want me to read a book and watch a film probably to show me what the REAL US is like. Cause my experience of staying in the USA is not what the REAL US is like, since somehow my experience in living there is not what you were hoping for. Yes a flim and a book does explain what every single black and white person feels over there. In fact it beats my own interaction and staying with actual real flesh and blood living black and white people. I have lived and interacted with real blacks and whites and experienced racism over there despite being a student. The blacks and whites i know are not your cookie cutter angry, loud mouth, ghetto fabulous black or corny talking, straight laced, uncool white dude most people would assume.
Jah_rastafar_I, Porfirio Rubirosa and Scroobal, thank you all for digging out the pest and gems from the m&d beneath the coiffured garden. Please don't stop yet.
In the main, I shall leave it to the forumers to decide, as your posts speak for themselves.
However let me quickly address the 4 issues of your rebuttal:
1. HDB Ethnic Quota Policy
You have totally failed (intentional or otherwise) to address my critical point i.e. the unfair, unreasonable and inequitable financial hardship incurred by ethnic minorities, which is a real serious fact. Btw I did say that this policy is well intended but misguided.
2. Speak Mandarin Campaign
Your words speak volumes of your insensitivety towards the ethnic minorities. Language is a highly emotional and sensitive issue in a multiracial/multicultural society. The national campaign well intended as it maybe appears to carry with it underlying tones of chinese chauvinism.
3. SAP Schools
Your words speaks volumes so much so in this particular case that I had to repaste them for all to examine:
"The formation of SAP schools is to help further those showing prospects in their mother tongue or mandarin. Now what does a school need to keep it running?? Students. What is the majority race in SG? So which language should be given more resources and attention to since the majority race speaks that language??"
Btw why can't "those showing prospects in their mother tongue or mandarin" adequately do so in NON SAP Schools? The more important issue being in a multi-racial/multi-cultural society is it healthy to have certain segments of the ethnic majority growing up with little (if any) interaction with ethnic minorities?
4. Race Discrimination Employment Cases
This is what you said:
"These companies are their own seperate entities which are not under the control of the government.
Right now this is like enroaching on the individual thoughts and likes or dislikes of the people. I believe that in SG everyone is at least entitled to his own opinion even if some of them cannot be publicly voiced out. Btw how about the 'apparent insidious manner" in which some companies only employ malays or indians???? Why no mention of them? So it is okay to be racist to chinese? Like how a certain bank or some banks seem to be filled only with indians or how delivery, fast food places only seem to be filled with malays. Seems like they discriminate against chinese over there
Racial Discrimination is WRONG regardless of the race of the person/entity doing the discrimination period. Perhaps it is now timely for Singapore to seriously consider implementing clear and unambiguous laws dealing with racial discrimination, in particular with respect to race discrimination employment cases. Having a look at the UK's Race Relations legislation and related Tribunals would be a good starting point.
Oh and I think Scroobal raised another critical issue in his post above i.e. the well intended yet misguided formation of individual ethnic self-help groups. A citizen needing help from the government/society should not be targeted by his/her ethnicity, doing so merely helps to segregate the society and further makes forging a common Singaporean Identity all the more difficult than it already is in the first place.
However let me quickly address the 4 issues of your rebuttal:
1. HDB Ethnic Quota Policy
You have totally failed (intentional or otherwise) to address my critical point i.e. the unfair, unreasonable and inequitable financial hardship incurred by ethnic minorities, which is a real serious fact. Btw I did say that this policy is well intended but misguided.
2. Speak Mandarin Campaign
Your words speak volumes of your insensitivety towards the ethnic minorities. Language is a highly emotional and sensitive issue in a multiracial/multicultural society. The national campaign well intended as it maybe appears to carry with it underlying tones of chinese chauvinism.
3. SAP Schools
Your words speaks volumes so much so in this particular case that I had to repaste them for all to examine:
"The formation of SAP schools is to help further those showing prospects in their mother tongue or mandarin. Now what does a school need to keep it running?? Students. What is the majority race in SG? So which language should be given more resources and attention to since the majority race speaks that language??"
Btw why can't "those showing prospects in their mother tongue or mandarin" adequately do so in NON SAP Schools? The more important issue being in a multi-racial/multi-cultural society is it healthy to have certain segments of the ethnic majority growing up with little (if any) interaction with ethnic minorities?
4. Race Discrimination Employment Cases
This is what you said:
"These companies are their own seperate entities which are not under the control of the government.
Right now this is like enroaching on the individual thoughts and likes or dislikes of the people. I believe that in SG everyone is at least entitled to his own opinion even if some of them cannot be publicly voiced out. Btw how about the 'apparent insidious manner" in which some companies only employ malays or indians???? Why no mention of them? So it is okay to be racist to chinese? Like how a certain bank or some banks seem to be filled only with indians or how delivery, fast food places only seem to be filled with malays. Seems like they discriminate against chinese over there
Racial Discrimination is WRONG regardless of the race of the person/entity doing the discrimination period. Perhaps it is now timely for Singapore to seriously consider implementing clear and unambiguous laws dealing with racial discrimination, in particular with respect to race discrimination employment cases. Having a look at the UK's Race Relations legislation and related Tribunals would be a good starting point.
Oh and I think Scroobal raised another critical issue in his post above i.e. the well intended yet misguided formation of individual ethnic self-help groups. A citizen needing help from the government/society should not be targeted by his/her ethnicity, doing so merely helps to segregate the society and further makes forging a common Singaporean Identity all the more difficult than it already is in the first place.
Very well articulated and presented. Not all of us understand the impact that this has on the minorities. Playing field is not level. We can help change it. There must be a better way.
"...However, while I wish for fairer judgment from others, it is equally critical for the Malay community not to be haunted by fear of stereotype and discrimination. Though alluring and convenient, the use of discrimination to explain all our failures can do great harm to our spirit."
Khartini Khalid
"...Being critical of the Malays is not racism but judging a person based on racial stereotypes is. While Singapore extols fairness and equality and has done much to reduce racism, it still exists and will continue to do so. Why? Because of the inherent nature of human beings. We have our flaws afterall, and prejudice, sadly, is one of them. If we really cannot eliminate it, what we can do is to minimise it as much as possible."
Natasha Majeed
"This is an article which needed to be written. Some of the discriminatory practices against the minorities (whether intentional or otherwise) should be highlighted. Of course, it would have helped the cause better if someone from the majority group had pointed out these practices. But such observations seem to be in short supply, and so the minorities have to speak for themselves - even though we may be potrayed as adopting a victim's persona."Kanwaljit Soin
"Ms Nur Dianah Suhaimai's essay made all the non-Malay Singaporeans more aware of how our Malay compatriots feel about being Singaporeans."Tommy Koh
Khartini Khalid
"...Being critical of the Malays is not racism but judging a person based on racial stereotypes is. While Singapore extols fairness and equality and has done much to reduce racism, it still exists and will continue to do so. Why? Because of the inherent nature of human beings. We have our flaws afterall, and prejudice, sadly, is one of them. If we really cannot eliminate it, what we can do is to minimise it as much as possible."
Natasha Majeed
"This is an article which needed to be written. Some of the discriminatory practices against the minorities (whether intentional or otherwise) should be highlighted. Of course, it would have helped the cause better if someone from the majority group had pointed out these practices. But such observations seem to be in short supply, and so the minorities have to speak for themselves - even though we may be potrayed as adopting a victim's persona."Kanwaljit Soin
"Ms Nur Dianah Suhaimai's essay made all the non-Malay Singaporeans more aware of how our Malay compatriots feel about being Singaporeans."Tommy Koh
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