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The HDB/CPF Scam – How the PAP perpetrated the biggest swindle in modern times

McDonaldsKid

Alfrescian
Loyal
That's a fantastic piece. Unfortunately that's just the way it is in Singapore, no way we can get out of this unless we vote out the PAP.

However, high HDB prices now will bring future problems if the new government decides to dramatically bring down HDB prices. A lot of people will be burnt due to the high prices now, and they will have to sell at a loss which severely disrupts their retirement plans. How do we solve this?
 

Papsmearer

Alfrescian (InfP) - Comp
Generous Asset
That's a fantastic piece. Unfortunately that's just the way it is in Singapore, no way we can get out of this unless we vote out the PAP.

However, high HDB prices now will bring future problems if the new government decides to dramatically bring down HDB prices. A lot of people will be burnt due to the high prices now, and they will have to sell at a loss which severely disrupts their retirement plans. How do we solve this?

Yes, you are right in that. This is my post from another thread, which will show why the PAP will not and cannot bring down HDB prices.

In theory, it sounds good, but in reality, its probably too late now. And to do it would be political suicide. the PAP has started on this slippery slope without realizing there is no turning back. Lets say for example they delink the CPF from HDB flat "purchases", in other words, CPF money will no longer be allowed to be used to "purchase" flats, but will be used instead for its intended purpose of retirement management. I can safely assure you the prices for HDB flats will drop by 1/3 over night. When "buyers" are not allowed to use the $100K, or $200K, or $300k in their CPF as down payment and they had to actually save that money or get it from other sources, it will kill the market overnight by pricing many buyers out of it. SOmeone who paid $500K for their flats 2 years ago will suddenly see the price of their flats devalue because the resale market is just not there anymore due to the inability of potential buyers to use their CPF funds. How much incentive do they now have to vote PAP at the next election? New buyers might be happy to buy the lower price flats, but really, they are a small minority of flat dwellers. In addition to this, the price of a HDB flat underpins the prices of the rest of real estate in SIngapore. Leasehold and freehold properties take their cue from HDB prices. If HDB prices take a hit due to the inability to use CPF, than private condos will also decline in price. As well, if people cannot use their CPF for their non-HDB flat purchases, the market for private properties will fall too. The Lees and the Kwas are collectively some of the largest property owners in singapore, along with their PAP cronies, they are not interested at all in seeing their private properties decline in value. This is why they cannot delink the CPF from HDB. They neither have the political will, nor the financial incentive to do so.
 

Papsmearer

Alfrescian (InfP) - Comp
Generous Asset
So we know what to do at LKY funeral wake and possession on the way to his burial place.

Get ready with bad eggs, bags of spoilt rubbish to throw at his coffin or road leading to his burial?

Does this man reserves your respect?

I think we should give him back his HDB flats. Why don't we demolish a whole block onto his funeral possession. Get rid of a bunch of PAP sycohants and porlumpars too.
 

Papsmearer

Alfrescian (InfP) - Comp
Generous Asset
Simply, LKY felt betrayed when he lose supports back in the 1984 GE.

Why there was no residents there to see him speak at the rally? Too lan he saboed you high and low using HDB which he build for you?

Yes, and he also lose face to the world. This is because he keeps telling the world what a paradise he has created here, and in the meantime, hundreds of thousands of his citizens have fled his paradise for other countries and hundreds of thousands more can't wait to get out. Makes him really tulan to see all these unappreciative sinkies run road. The PMs of Australia, Canada, UK, can all laugh in his face and say "What's so great about this "miracle" you created, your citizens are migrating to our shores in droves, if its so good, why don't they stay?".
 

Papsmearer

Alfrescian (InfP) - Comp
Generous Asset
When I say that this is the greatest swindle in modern times, I really mean it. This is because its not a one time deal, where the perpetrator gets caught and goes to jail, e.g Bernie Madoff. IT'S AN ONGOING SWINDLE. This is the worse part, even after you have taken out the down payment for your HDB flat from your CPF, it is still continuously drained monthly to service the loan. In other words, billions of $ are still being swindled from the citizens each and every year for the forseable future. As alluded to earlier, if decide not to play the game and instead fund the monthly payments from your own salary and not the CPF, than your CPF money is being ravaged by inflation when its being paid only 2.5%. They have had decades to refine the whole system and close all the loopholes and enhance the exploitation.

Unlike a commercial crime case, the victims have no legal recourse. They cannot complain to the police. There are no prosecutors to investigate and charge the PAP, because they are the govt. Even though all the elements of criminal fraud are there. Including misrepresentation i.e. saying that you own the flat when you don't. Also Price manipulation and anti-competition/anti-trust actions by taking over 80% of the land through legislature that would not be upheld in any independent democracy. This forces people to go to them as they are in many cases the sole source of housing. What is happening here is that one entity controls and owns 80% of the land and 90% of the housing. Land is a limited resource in SIngapore. They than sell this limited resource for a high price. And peopel are forced to buy it from them because there is little or no other alternative. Another name for this is called Price Gouging or Economic Hoarding. This is illegal in every country in the world, including communist ones like China. The recent case of the California Electricty crisis of 2008 is a good example. Companies like Enron colluded and manipulated electricity prices in California resulting in 800% price increases, through economic witholding and price inflating. Guess what. The state of California brought them to court and won. These electricity companies had to pay back billions of $. The problem with SIngaporeans is they don't realize a price gouge when they see one.

One only has to read the papers to see there is no shortage of real estate pundits giving their prognostication on the market, as well, there are tons of real estate agents. But I have yet to hear one of these professionals explain it to me in the way I have done in the first post. Which leads me to believe that these people are just plain ignorant about it. This is another hallmark of a swindle. Keep the victims in the dark, feed them misleading or no information, and rely on HDB and MND to hype the product and get in more suckers.

The worse part is that there is not a squeak about this from the oppo parties. I don't know whether they realize the depth of this problem or whether they are just happy to sit there and collect $16,000 a month salary. They should address this issue on their manifesto and state what they will do about it if elected into power.
 
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scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
I don't think you can call it a swindle but what started as an amazing public housing and urban development programme with good intentions began to be milked by the PAP to fund a surplus budget and then to fund other programmes. They knew that home ownership was a core aspiration and they became greedy. Within a short period both parents had to work to pay for the loan. As a monopoly, with 85% of the household in the public housing sector, the situation became worse. Pricing was dependent on the ability to stretch the household disposable income and followed the affordability index meant for the private sector.

It was also became evident that relief policies such as reliefs in the form of grants, parent proximity incentives etc were added as election sweeteners.

And the long running mantra despite forking out large sums of money was that the Govt was heavily subsidising your house and that citizens should be grateful.
 

yellowarse

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Conclusion

The end result is that probably in excess of $100 billion have been channeled out of CPF into the govt. coffers through the sale of a piece of rental agreement for 99 years. Singaporeans literally have nothing to show for it. If this does not make it one of the biggest modern swindles of all times, than I don’t what does. This is not some greedy Wall Street wolf doing the fleecing here, but a govt. using legislature, bold faced lies, and obfuscation to con a gullible populace into buying a pipe dream.

An excellent exposé. Kudos.

More than a swindle, it's a heist: allowing retirement savings to fund public housing purchase (long-term lease), raising HDB prices by factoring in land cost and pegging to market, and then paying you very low returns on your CPF, in effect siphoning off your old-age funds into govt investment vehicles which line the pockets of the ruling elite and their cronies.

No other country allows pension/retirement funds to be used for real estate; none sells public housing way above cost and calls it 'subsidized housing'; none pays such ridiculously low interest rates on pension savings proportional to the returns our SWF are getting.

Should get your piece out to all the ignorant Sinkies out there.
 

jw5

Moderator
Moderator
Loyal
No doubt they all had their human flaws and failings. Some probably just chugged along and porlumpar to maintain their own status quo.

It won't stop me from being convinced that the increasing problems are due to the domination and staying power of one deluded, over-rated, over-bearing and certainly "non-exceptional" individual, who somehow managed to garner lots of admiration and adulation.

The main thing we need to prevent is another similar type personality/character from emerging and dominating society, because this will be the start of another round of self-serving policies which don't benefit the ordinary citizens.

When the PAP first started out, there were a lot more opposition. Their control of the country was not as solid as it is today. So, when they started this HDB housing scheme, they could not screw around with it. Gradually, they jailed oppos, and consolidated their power, and it enabled them to start exploiting sinkies for real. The old guard was in it up to their eyeballs with Lee Con You. That dead fucker Goh Keng Swee probably thought up half this shit.
 

Papsmearer

Alfrescian (InfP) - Comp
Generous Asset
An excellent exposé. Kudos.

More than a swindle, it's a heist: allowing retirement savings to fund public housing purchase (long-term lease), raising HDB prices by factoring in land cost and pegging to market, and then paying you very low returns on your CPF, in effect siphoning off your old-age funds into govt investment vehicles which line the pockets of the ruling elite and their cronies.

No other country allows pension/retirement funds to be used for real estate; none sells public housing way above cost and calls it 'subsidized housing'; none pays such ridiculously low interest rates on pension savings proportional to the returns our SWF are getting.

Should get your piece out to all the ignorant Sinkies out there.

Thanks and you are right. There is no other country in the world that has such a pervasive wealth transfer scam from its citizens to its own pockets. You will recall how the PAP bragged for decades that it had surpluses and was able to build up Temasek and GIC. You can see now where these "surpluses" came from. It was all stolen from the citizens. The govt. after all is not that top flight. And hence should not be paying themselves top dollar. Unfortunately, this heist is an ongoing heist. If only Singaporeans can be so lucky where the robbers only rob them once and than vanish.

By the way, how do you put it out to other people? The thing that irritates me with the other sites like TRemeritus is you have to register and than wait a few days for your post to show.
 
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Papsmearer

Alfrescian (InfP) - Comp
Generous Asset
I don't think you can call it a swindle but what started as an amazing public housing and urban development programme with good intentions began to be milked by the PAP to fund a surplus budget and then to fund other programmes. They knew that home ownership was a core aspiration and they became greedy. Within a short period both parents had to work to pay for the loan. As a monopoly, with 85% of the household in the public housing sector, the situation became worse. Pricing was dependent on the ability to stretch the household disposable income and followed the affordability index meant for the private sector.

It was also became evident that relief policies such as reliefs in the form of grants, parent proximity incentives etc were added as election sweeteners.

And the long running mantra despite forking out large sums of money was that the Govt was heavily subsidising your house and that citizens should be grateful.

We don't really give a shit what it started out as. It has evolved into the world's biggest swindle, which is what it currently is. Don't confuse the issue here.
 

mojito

Alfrescian
Loyal
We don't really give a shit what it started out as. It has evolved into the world's biggest swindle, which is what it currently is. Don't confuse the issue here.

Willing buyer, willing seller. No one forced sinkies to buy HDB flats. There was no misrepresentation or fraud. To say it is a swindle is to make a false claim.
 

Papsmearer

Alfrescian (InfP) - Comp
Generous Asset
Willing buyer, willing seller. No one forced sinkies to buy HDB flats. There was no misrepresentation or fraud. To say it is a swindle is to make a false claim.

which fantasy world are you living in? U telling me that a singaporean willingly agrees to pay 99 years worth of rent up front? Even if he has to borrow money for 25 years and pay up to $450,000? In your dreams. The so call willing buyer you claim has no choice unless they want to sleep on the streets. why? The govt. owns 80% of the land and 90% of all dwellings. What happens when you have no choice? Its called FORCED. Get it?
 

yellowarse

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
By the way, how do you put it out to other people? The thing that irritates me with the other sites like TRemeritus is you have to register and than wait a few days for your post to show.

I was thinking of TRE. A few days won't make any difference as this ongoing scam will be going on for as long the regime lasts. (TOC is another site with wide readership but you have to reveal your identity.)

Only problem with TRE is Richard Wan may take a rain check because of words like 'swindle' and 'scam' ... opens him (and the other editors) up to defamation suits even if the author is unnamed.
 
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Papsmearer

Alfrescian (InfP) - Comp
Generous Asset
I was thinking of TRE. A few days won't make any difference as this ongoing scam will be going on for as long the regime lasts. (TOC is another site with wide readership but you have to reveal your identity.)

Only problem with TRE is Richard Wan may take a rain check because of words like 'swindle' and 'scam' ... opens him (and the other editors) up to defamation suits even if the author is unnamed.

I guess that brings me back to Sammyboy. LOL.
 

GaoGaiGar

Alfrescian
Loyal
I still cannot comprehend the valuation limit, any bros care to elaborate and it does not applied to new flat owner right.
 

mojito

Alfrescian
Loyal
Read the first post. maybe u missed the back up. hint: its The whole post #1.

If you can't express your premise in a single sentence, its not gonna stick. If i leased you a car for 200k when it costs 50k to own on across the causeway, terms may not be fair to you but you know what you are paying for. After all, it is written in the contract is it not? Where is the swindle?
 
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