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Infidelity in Organisations - the Singaporean notion

Charlie99

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
I do recall Khaw demanding answers from WP over Yaw as though Yaw committed triple murder. I also recall that the Toa Payoh Borthel went into overdrive. I got so fed up I released the Shanmugam Escapde and it escalated from there. I only stopped for the daughter was studying for her A level in Washington State and the Son was in a UK uni.

From what I have read, it looks that Honourable Minister stood his ground, and appears to be denying his "escapade"
If the MIW believe that they are white and pure, with integrity and on high moral ground, then that said Minister should have voluntarily resigned.
 

Charlie99

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Bro, this one suggest that the Toa Payoh Brothel was asked to go on maximum damage rather than damage control. It also appears that they are targeting the woman and her family. This one has more legs than a fucking spider.

It appears unfair to "target the woman"
 

nayr69sg

Super Moderator
Staff member
SuperMod
The universities realised, a lot of medical students choose the course, due to peer pressure, family pressure, to be a "doctor" if you have the highest marks after high school. Which is why there are "programs" in place to not just select medical students nowadays based on marks, but also on their willingness and commitment to be one. There is also an additional interview process and medical/ethics,UMAT, exams.

That's what I thought as well Ash007. I figured going to Canada where it was "impossible" to get into residency again would mean I was free from having to practice medicine ever again. Furthermore I did zero volunteer work. Zero "observorship" attachments as they call it. I just took the exams (all 4 including the MMI which centred heavily of ethics) and applied. My reference was from my former head of department in the polyclinic in Singapore. So zero Canadian references, zero Canadian experience. What was the chance eh?

I went to the one and only interview I got (which was a surprise in itself as I only applied to UofA and UofC. I would not consider moving to another province for residency. Again just two, what's the chance eh?) and spoke pretty honestly. I didn't lie that I wanted to do medicine because I loved it, I said it was for financial security and a sense of duty to my family.

In the actual match day I did not get a position. However a week later I got called saying that a candidate pulled out and I was "next on their list" and they offered it to me. To this day I don't know whether to laugh or cry when I remember that moment that I said "ok".

So for what it is worth, the selection process is flawed. All selection processes are flawed. It is also how I got into a job in oil and gas with zero experience and no qualifications, finished the one month probation and got told I no longer needed to get my paper qualifications and become project manager in 12 months handling the firm's biggest client and then left shortly after to do family medicine residency.

All this talk about "selecting people of the right calibre" is bullshit. It is all touch and go. Smart candidates can play the game well and win. Whatever is judged by man, rules made by man, machines and creations made by man, man can overcome and win.

However when it comes to things made by our creator and not by man that is the true impossible. Hence me dealing with a machine called the body created by God is just not a good fit for me. If I really tried hard to help someone, perhaps the ethics committees would come after me. More risk than gain for everyone except the patient perhaps. Medicine is about doing what all doctors do. Following guidelines. Follow the crowd. Play safe. Do not be creative.

If you know me, and hearing what I have done to go all the way to Canada, rejecting and giving up my career in Singapore and all the other escapades in Canada, you will know I am not the kind who enjoys following the crowd, playing safe, and operating at subconscious levels. Unfortunately this is what family medicine is. It pays well though which is also a curse in itself.

Anyway, Scroobal, you say I was an inspiration to others? Don't joke lah. I was just an angry young man who wanted to prove everyone wrong.

I think the reason why the emigration folder is dead is not so much because there is readily available information, but really because the next generation of Singaporeans just aren't interested in migrating anymore. They are more focused on enjoying themselves in Singapore and going on holidays. People are having children later in life and also many of the well heeled are in the Finance sector. I know some finance people who say their credentials mean for nothing in North America as their contacts are all within the Asia Pacific region. And mind you these high flier finance people are raking millions a year. That is way too much to give up. As a polyclinic doctor I was taking in $7500 a month. I easily surpassed this as a rookie land administrator in oil and gas.

What I can never understand though is why I have never heard of another male Singaporean doctor migrating? I do know two doctors in Canada who migrated. One is a housewife as she has a well to do husband and are both retired in Vancouver. The husband was a forum member here as well and I met him in Singapore before he left in 2004. The other doctor is someone who married a Canadian man and settled in Vancouver for several years.

After I matched I was introduced to her by the former doctor and I gave her some tips on the exams and application process to get into family medicine residency. She did better than me at the exams. Also did no observorships and volunteer work. And she got into residency on the first try. She is now a 1st year family medicine resident in BC. She did however have very interesting experience volunteering in Afghanistan.

So it is possible to get back into medicine in Canada. I think being a graduate from Singapore plays a big part. Strangely, I have never had any requests from young doctors in Singapore asking how to come to Canada. Oh well I guess that's how "inspiring" my story is. Not!

It's been a journey for sure and I look back with many fond memories. I am still young though and I believe this is but another chapter in my life. There is still time left for me to do something crazy when I finally get around to doing it again.
 
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nayr69sg

Super Moderator
Staff member
SuperMod
From what I have read, it looks that Honourable Minister stood his ground, and appears to be denying his "escapade"
If the MIW believe that they are white and pure, with integrity and on high moral ground, then that said Minister should have voluntarily resigned.

Ah...Mr Khaw Boon Wan. He is a politician.
 

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
Its was changed from 11 to 13 years quite some time in 2009 and made known in this forum. http://www.sammyboy.com/showthread....NS-Obligations-HDB-Flats-and-Migration/page16

The Kiwi kid story is the family doing their wayang. Father was stationed in Singapore with NZ forces and married to a local. Those married to locals are given written literature and briefed on NS obligations if certain conditions are not met. Singapore Govt assist in ensuring the content is correct. The same is done by US, Canadian and UK embassies/High Commission. The mother is quite typical of local females marrying foreigners did not apply for Kiwi Citizenship and held on her Singaporean citizenship in the mistaken belief that it is a illegal to hold dual citizenship and for added security wanted her son to do NS. This goes along line of custody if things do not work. So nothing was done for the first son. They however followed the procedure for the second son and I am assuming that mum was lot more comfortable with the marriage.

The father thought he will do usual press and media release and embarrass the Singapore Govt. So we are looking at a family that wants their cake and to eat. In fact the father unlike migrating Singaporean families had the inside the track because they are briefed from the very start and told of the procedure to apply. None of it occurs.

There are couple things I have given up on Singaporeans and one is certainly Dual or multiple citizenship. Which is not a crime in Singapore and has never been. Singapore Govt uses the words "do not recognise" dual citizenship is purely semantics and meant for the gullible. I even had one clown in this forum who cited the law where the Minister has to power where he "may" take away someone Singapore's citizenship. The word "may" seems to mean something else for this clown. The same power also sits with Home Secretary of the UK Govt.


On the Emigration Folder, I agree that time and change has made it less relevant. Still keen to reach out and for others a platform. Might start a thread just to test the waters.


What is needed is a clarification and update regarding the status of Children born in Singapore. The cut of date of 11yrs of age no longer applies.

New rules have been brought in to prevent PRs from spiriting their children away at a young age to avoid NS. A Kiwi kid has been caught in the net. It was in the press here a couple of months ago and there's a thread about in this forum.

However the immigration folder has pretty much done its time. Information is so easily available nowadays that it is no longer needed as the sole source of reliable information.
 

Charlie99

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
There is certainly more to this story. The press went after the extended families of the woman's to dig deeper. In Palmer case, they followed the script and stayed their hand.

It looks like there is more to this David Ong's matter,
if they are digging deeper into the lady's family matters,
without revealing much about David, and keeping silent on his spouse and family.

Accordingly, the ladies in Singapore should be very careful, and avoid those MIW,
regardless of financial wealth and status in society.
 

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
Thanks for the write-up Doc and thanks for sharing. Believe me you are indeed an inspiration. You refused to acknowledge hurdles and refused to lay down and accept your faith. I am sure I was not the only one who looked forward to your post daily in the early years. A lesser person would have given up especially when one considers the barrier to the profession.

You are right about Singapore doctors not keen on migrating. My sense is that it is still lucrative to some and the barriers to qualify overseas are a disincentive. I know of a doctor which I mentioned years ago who had a special needs kid and wanted to get the best available support. He gave up his medical practice and became a pharmaceutical salesman, spent 2 years to qualify in this category and migrated to Australia. In Australia, a special needs kid gets assigned a special needs tutor who sits thru class session with the kid. Again another story of "for the family".

Agree on the selection process. I have seen some interesting things in my time.

During your time making the move, I do recall two ladies in this forum, one went to Melbourne and the other to Canada. Both were inspirational as well as in both their cases, they did all the research and legwork to migrate with their family. The Lady who went to Melbourne had a shop in Beauty World, Bukit Timah who was hit by poor business. She was dogged and luck would have it, someone in this forum who was in Melbourne acted as her sponsor. Pure luck. I hope both of them are doing well. At the end of the day, it was done for the family.


That's what I thought as well Ash007. I figured going to Canada where it was "impossible" to get into residency again would mean I was free from having to practice medicine ever again. Furthermore I did zero volunteer work. Zero "observorship" attachments as they call it. I just took the exams (all 4 including the MMI which centred heavily of ethics) and applied. My reference was from my former head of department in the polyclinic in Singapore. So zero Canadian references, zero Canadian experience. What was the chance eh?

.
 

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
Remember Tang Liang Hong. He was a PAP cadre member and it was considered treachery on his part to betray the party. Old man lets all his dogs lose including the tax department. Even took house from the wife.

Not if it serves the PAP interest. They is no depth to which they will not stoop.
 

GoldenDragon

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Remember Tang Liang Hong. He was a PAP cadre member and it was considered treachery on his part to betray the party. Old man lets all his dogs lose including the tax department. Even took house from the wife.

Not forgetting Devan Nair, his best pal for decades.
 

Ash007

Alfrescian
Loyal
Hi nayr, you are right, no selection process is foolproof. But if you smart enough to beat it, doesn't it shows you are smart enough for it. Also, sg docs are highly regarded. Which is probably why you are placed next on the list even though you are not as committed in the interview. As they say, experience triumph exams. Trust me i've seen some really bad docs in the public service here. I also never realised how stiffling medical can be. I guess a lot migrated because if family, I had similar reasons as well. I always tell my wife, the first generation that migrated is the hardest, not just in terms of monetary, but also friends and family.
 

MaximiLian

Alfrescian
Loyal
Having unvielded his secret weapon and totally destroying his external electoral enemies, the Son King is moving now to destroy the enemies within.

Wahlaneh..even ze lumber one chun kar political pundit is back for the BE.
Internet is serious biz manz.
 

gatehousethetinkertailor

Alfrescian
Loyal
Its was changed from 11 to 13 years quite some time in 2009 and made known in this forum. http://www.sammyboy.com/showthread....NS-Obligations-HDB-Flats-and-Migration/page16

The Kiwi kid story is the family doing their wayang. Father was stationed in Singapore with NZ forces and married to a local. Those married to locals are given written literature and briefed on NS obligations if certain conditions are not met. Singapore Govt assist in ensuring the content is correct. The same is done by US, Canadian and UK embassies/High Commission. The mother is quite typical of local females marrying foreigners did not apply for Kiwi Citizenship and held on her Singaporean citizenship in the mistaken belief that it is a illegal to hold dual citizenship and for added security wanted her son to do NS. This goes along line of custody if things do not work. So nothing was done for the first son. They however followed the procedure for the second son and I am assuming that mum was lot more comfortable with the marriage.

The father thought he will do usual press and media release and embarrass the Singapore Govt. So we are looking at a family that wants their cake and to eat. In fact the father unlike migrating Singaporean families had the inside the track because they are briefed from the very start and told of the procedure to apply. None of it occurs.

There are couple things I have given up on Singaporeans and one is certainly Dual or multiple citizenship. Which is not a crime in Singapore and has never been. Singapore Govt uses the words "do not recognise" dual citizenship is purely semantics and meant for the gullible. I even had one clown in this forum who cited the law where the Minister has to power where he "may" take away someone Singapore's citizenship. The word "may" seems to mean something else for this clown. The same power also sits with Home Secretary of the UK Govt.


On the Emigration Folder, I agree that time and change has made it less relevant. Still keen to reach out and for others a platform. Might start a thread just to test the waters.

Welcome back scroobal - I am certainly glad to have discussions on these issues being taken up once more as they do provide valuable insights for those who contribute their experiences and insights, red herrings included - this debacle around Dr Ang Swee Chai seems to reinforce the perception that if you have dual citizenship it will be stripped away from you - would the grounds be for making a false declaration on "any other citizenship" held? Although it may just be a hopeless reporter's writing, the distinction seems to be muddled even if it is merely technical/adinistrative i.e. is she being stripped of her citizenship or is the issue that she will not be issued a travel document?

"She needs the special papers because she holds both British and Singapore citizenship and does not want to give up either.

"I can come into Singapore with a British passport, but unless there is assurance that the Immigration and Checkpoints Authority (ICA) will not strip me of my Singapore citizenship, I must not risk it," she told The Straits Times in an e-mail.

"The ICA has pointed that out to me... I stand to lose my citizenship if I do so," she added."


"An MHA spokesman said the Government does not allow citizens to hold dual citizenship, and will not issue travel documents if they have not renounced their foreign citizenship. She said Dr Ang's 2012 travel document was issued with a "clear understanding that she would resolve her dual citizenship status expeditiously".

Since then, ICA has reminded Dr Ang to do so four times - the last reminder was last month, on Feb 4, a spokesman said. "ICA will process her request for such a document, once she shows proof she has started the process of renouncing her British citizenship."


http://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/re-entry-issue-for-singaporean-with-uk-passport
 

Charlie99

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Although the Singapore government "does not allow citizens to hold dual citizenship"
it does not appear that the Singapore Constitution indicates that it is illegal.

For that individual, it appears that the Singapore did not deprive her of her Singapore citizenship,
or took active steps to strip her of Singapore citizenship.
There is nothing for the Singapore government to gain by stripping her of her Singapore citizenship.

It appears that the Singapore may not wish to publicize the possibility of Singapore citizens holding dual citizenship,
as long as it does not jeopardize other significant Singapore's policies, such as obligations to serve NS.
 

nayr69sg

Super Moderator
Staff member
SuperMod
Although the Singapore government "does not allow citizens to hold dual citizenship"
it does not appear that the Singapore Constitution indicates that it is illegal.

For that individual, it appears that the Singapore did not deprive her of her Singapore citizenship,
or took active steps to strip her of Singapore citizenship.
There is nothing for the Singapore government to gain by stripping her of her Singapore citizenship.

It appears that the Singapore may not wish to publicize the possibility of Singapore citizens holding dual citizenship,
as long as it does not jeopardize other significant Singapore's policies, such as obligations to serve NS.

I have a friend in Australia who migrated there when she was in her teens. She had never applied for Australian citizenship until now. Why? Because of the new Medishield Life scheme.

I believe this issues will wake overseas Singaporeans from their slumber and decide they do not want to pay for something they do not use. Also many Singaporeans realize their roots are now deep in their new home countries and they have less in common with Singaporeans.

The other obvious reason why people would want to renounce their Singapore citizenships is to get their hands on ALL their CPF money. A bird in hand is worth two in the bush. Singaporeans tell us to leave the money in CPF as it gives good interest and all that. But I don't believe that will last. I think that CPF is a ponzi scheme. Medishield Life is a way to claw back some of the "interest" paid out on CPF accounts. Temasek is probably not well financially.
 
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