How good is RSAF ?

[ektay]

The question of air superiority in terms of technological advantage and quality of pilot prowess of the RSAF becomes IRRELEVANT in any hypothetical armed conflict discussion because of ONE WEAK LINK that is difficult to fix.

SINGAPORE'S small land mass makes all their military runways including the secondary ones at the EASTCOAST PARKWAY (ECP) VULNERABLE to DAMAGE which is a crippling blow that would result in warplanes not being able to take off OR being able to land after their 1st sortie.

All the locations of the RSAF airports are already known by friend and foe. The locations of potential hostile mobile SAM/artillery batteries however remains unknown. Hostile saturation artillery barrages, missile strikes etc that would surely pockmark any military runway with craters/potholes in the opening gambit to render the technologically superior RSAF an impotent force.

Close proximity of all military airports situated in the NORTHERN parts of Singapore makes even more vulnerable and also hazardous for RSAF pilots to take off to gain sufficient altitude and airspeed to perform any effective countermeasures or evasive manoeuvres against short range SAM batteries of hostile AIR DEFENCE ARTILLERIES.

To neutralise hostile threats to airport runways puts the SAF in a catch 22 position. To take out the hostile SAM batteries/Artillery to safeguard RSAF runways without prior knowledge of their location requires lots of ordnance to saturate the whole of JOHORE causing widespread collateral civilian casualties and earning international condemnation.

Moving SAF ground troops in to neutralise them cannot take place safely avoiding massive friendly forces casaulties without adequate air cover. The RSAF cannot provide that vital aircover because the RSAF planes cannot take off from damaged and inoperable runways. Taking off from secret airfields in Thailand won't be as effective to provide air cover for ground troops operating in the Johore Theatre of operations due to the distance factor. The entire SAF including the RSAF would it seems be paralysed from DAY 1 by this logistical disadvantage of time and space.

typical armchair critic.....furthermore, this bird is from kiwiland.....

 

[Ramseth]

hey ramseth. those vietnam pilots who flew during war time....are they still around to fly?

That war batch may have retired but the tradition remains. They fought US premier F4 with their puny outdated Mig 21 donated by Soviet Union. Their present generation of pilots can't be anywhere off that mark.

For example, the Battle of Britain RAF pilots are all retired or dead, the 6-Day War IAF pilots too. But every generation, Israelis and British pilots are still among the best in the world. Look at budget Britain in Desert Storm using the horribly outdated Bucaneer to fly incredibly low-level sorties, taking out targets accurately and most of them returning safely.

For those who can't recall what's the Bucaneer, it's of the same generation as the Hunter. For those who're not sure what low-level flight is, just imagine that if the pilot is not careful or competent enough, he could crash into a 6-storey building or lower at eye level.

 

[johnny333]

For those who can't recall what's the Bucaneer, it's of the same generation as the Hunter.

At one time the Bucaneers was the UK's frontline bomber carrying their nuclear bombs.

 

[ektay]

That war batch may have retired but the tradition remains. They fought US premier F4 with their puny outdated Mig 21 donated by Soviet Union. Their present generation of pilots can't be anywhere off that mark.

For example, the Battle of Britain RAF pilots are all retired or dead, the 6-Day War IAF pilots too. But every generation, Israelis and British pilots are still among the best in the world. Look at budget Britain in Desert Storm using the horribly outdated Bucaneer to fly incredibly low-level sorties, taking out targets accurately and most of them returning safely.

For those who can't recall what's the Bucaneer, it's of the same generation as the Hunter. For those who're not sure what low-level flight is, just imagine that if the pilot is not careful or competent enough, he could crash into a 6-storey building or lower at eye level.

hi ramseth. first of all, i have utmost respect for u. but having said that, not many military commanders in SEA have any war experience.

secondly, rsaf pilots trained with us pilots who have gone thru gulf war....and it is a fact that us pilots are impressed with the performance of rsaf pilots who are based in states.

 

[Ramseth]

At one time the Bucaneers was the UK's frontline bomber carrying their nuclear bombs.

I think that you're mistaken. The Bucaneer never carried nukes. The Vulcan did.

 

[Ramseth]

hi ramseth. first of all, i have utmost respect for u. but having said that, not many military commanders in SEA have any war experience.

secondly, rsaf pilots trained with us pilots who have gone thru gulf war....and it is a fact that us pilots are impressed with the performance of rsaf pilots who are based in states.

True. SEA has seen no real war after WW2 except for the Vietnam War. Even limited war like the Indonesian Confrontation was actually fought by the British and Australians. It's a question mark raised by combat experience. Can training performance equate combat performance?

 

[kingrant]

A superior airforce is to take out the enemy's attack capabilities totally asap. A surgical strike. Not in our interests to hold ground. Strategy is to defend by offensive and preemptive strike. Bring the battle to the forward edge of battle area and dominate it. Idea is to fight any battle outside Singapore, as far north as Southern Thailand. only a superior airforce will do that.

In any war can't just rely on aircraft.

Ground troops are always necessary IF you want to hold the ground.

 

[kingrant]

True, not many mil cmdrs have war experience in SEA, so S'pore is not nec handicapped then. As long as S'pore's 3 forces can fight as one, we wld be one up. I dont think any of the region's forces can match our unified capabs.

hi ramseth. first of all, i have utmost respect for u. but having said that, not many military commanders in SEA have any war experience.

secondly, rsaf pilots trained with us pilots who have gone thru gulf war....and it is a fact that us pilots are impressed with the performance of rsaf pilots who are based in states.

 

[johnny333]

I think that you're mistaken. The Bucaneer never carried nukes. The Vulcan did.

The Vulcan was more of course more famous famous as it was featured in the James Bond movie Thunderball.

However the Buccaneer was also nuclear capable. Can look here for more info:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackburn_Buccaneer


Operational history
[edit] Fleet Air Arm
809 NAS Buccaneer from HMS Ark Royal in 1976

The Buccaneer entered service in 1962. In addition to conventional ordnance, in 1965 the Buccaneer was type-approved for nuclear weapons delivery i.e. the Red Beard and WE177 bombs. All nuclear weapons were carried internally in a rotating bomb-bay.[4]

 

[Ramseth]

Operational history
[edit] Fleet Air Arm
809 NAS Buccaneer from HMS Ark Royal in 1976

The Buccaneer entered service in 1962. In addition to conventional ordnance, in 1965 the Buccaneer was type-approved for nuclear weapons delivery i.e. the Red Beard and WE177 bombs. All nuclear weapons were carried internally in a rotating bomb-bay.[4]

Thanks Johnny. Looks like I was the one mistaken. Apologies.

Anyway, they don't bother with nuke air bombers ever since nuke ballistic missile was invented, especially when can be launched from submarines.

 

[ektay]

True. SEA has seen no real war after WW2 except for the Vietnam War. Even limited war like the Indonesian Confrontation was actually fought by the British and Australians. It's a question mark raised by combat experience. Can training performance equate combat performance?

this is something we will find out when there is war....which i believe, nobody want.

 

[Ramseth]

A superior airforce is to take out the enemy's attack capabilities totally asap. A surgical strike. Not in our interests to hold ground. Strategy is to defend by offensive and preemptive strike. Bring the battle to the forward edge of battle area and dominate it. Idea is to fight any battle outside Singapore, as far north as Southern Thailand. only a superior airforce will do that.

In a practical sense, besides the global powers US, Russia, UK and France, no other country's troops can reach Singapore, that's including China and Vietnam. Singapore is within range of only Malaysia, Indonesia and Thailand. Take good care of these three and all's well.

 

[halsey02]

What, the RSAF fought in Nam? Put the ganja pipe down, Halsey.

I did not say the RASF fought in nam? I said the Thai maybe!!...the only wars the RSAF fought is on screen...in the simulator...

and I do not do marijuana...I am an OKIE from.....

 

[johnny333]

The americans have got the best airforce but they are loosing foot solddiers in Iraq & Afghanistan. Before that they withdrew from Vietnam even though Vietnam air force was 3rd world.

Even if Spore's air force destroys all their objectives, its not going to be the end of it. No air force has ever won a war. You can use it for deterrence but once a shooting war is starts the army gets involved.

There's still the Malaysian army & the NS guys are going to be called up to defend Spore's borders. There are many soft targets in Spore & even a single individual can do alot of damage.

I don't see the Malaysians attacking Spore as there is nothing here of interest to them. However there's more likelihood of Spore attacking Malaysia for its water, sand,...

A superior airforce is to take out the enemy's attack capabilities totally asap. A surgical strike. Not in our interests to hold ground. Strategy is to defend by offensive and preemptive strike. Bring the battle to the forward edge of battle area and dominate it. Idea is to fight any battle outside Singapore, as far north as Southern Thailand. only a superior airforce will do that.

 

[halsey02]

The americans have got the best airforce but they are loosing foot solddiers in Iraq & Afghanistan. Before that they withdrew from Vietnam even though Vietnam air force was 3rd world.

Even if Spore's air force destroys all their objectives, its not going to be the end of it. No air force has ever won a war. You can use it for deterrence but once a shooting war is starts the army gets involved.

There's still the Malaysian army & the NS guys are going to be called up to defend Spore's borders. There are many soft targets in Spore & even a single individual can do alot of damage.

I don't see the Malaysians attacking Spore as there is nothing here of interest to them. However there's more likelihood of Spore attacking Malaysia for its water, sand,...

All one need to do is to inform the various FT's in SINgapore that their nation is providing them with transportation by land by air or by sea...they will clog up the highways...rushing there, when there is a war...

 

[johnny333]

Thanks Johnny. Looks like I was the one mistaken. Apologies.

Anyway, they don't bother with nuke air bombers ever since nuke ballistic missile was invented, especially when can be launched from submarines.

The Bucanneer is a very dated aircraft & not surprising its nuclear capabilities are overlooked

Still a beautiful plane as was the Hunter jets.

 

[Ramseth]

The Bucanneer is a very dated aircraft & not surprising its nuclear capabilities are overlooked

Still a beautiful plane as was the Hunter jets.

Yes, in that 60s cold war era RAF, Bucaneer was a most beautiful plane. Followed by Hunter. However, for mission and payload purposes, they were designed to be subsonic. The Lightning was supersonic as a quick interceptor, but it's got no aethestics to shout about.

Then US McDonnell-Douglas came up with F4 Phantom that seemed to have solved all problems for all the 5 services, USAF, USN, USM, RAF and RN. Menacing looking yet handsome aircraft with huge payload yet supersonic speed, easily adaptable into various versions from fighter to attack bomber, from airfield to aircraft carriers. In those days, only UK was allowed to buy it under their "special relationship".

UK later returned the favor with the VTOL/STOL Harrier (only for sale to US).

 

[kiwibird7]

typical armchair critic.....furthermore, this bird is from kiwiland.....

And the highly paid Generals in the SAF fought real wars?

 

[ChaoPappyPoodle]

I would rather have UMNO than the PAP as our garment. At least in Malaysia, housing is affordable, job security for citizens is of importance and healthcare is actually much better than in SG.

You guys can go fight your war. I'm stocking up on sarongs.

 

[red amoeba]

our strategy will be to strike first talk later - like what Israel do, and avoid fighting on our soil at all costs.

i will envision using our airforce to knock out radar, arty and command centres - which require high tech hardware - north or south.

then act as air cover for land troops.