HDB 101 : What the PAP don't want you to know.

[greedy and cunning]

Hi Papsmearer, you are spot-on about my monthly payment and thank you for the quick reply! However, I have also used $140k from CPF OA as downpayment, when I "sell" my flat, have to repay the $140k plus interest (which probably another $50k +) to my CPF account. Find it ridiculous that I have pay interest for using own CPF OA money...keke.

i can't help replying.

This is the beauty of the scheme.

 

[greedy and cunning]

Dear PAP

You forget that the spread that HDB makes from the loan is in fact 0.1 per cent not the full 2.6%, the other 2.5% goes to the CPF board.


Locke

in other countries , the various gov minitries/depts are distinct different from each others.

in sinkie land , they are in fact one and the same.

this is another beauty of the scheme.

 

[greedy and cunning]

Thank you, now don't get me started about NS, and elections, etc. LOL.

NS started off as a mean to forced sinkies to 'defence' the cuntry.

later when the cost of living shot up and salary stay put , it extended to force sinkies to fight fire instead.

another clever move to solve the shortage of fireman.

 

[Papsmearer]

This thread should be made sticky.

Yes, that is a good idea, but I don't know how u do that. I guess its the mod that has to make the decision. But there are over 16,000 views.

 

[Kinana]

If you don't own the HDB, how can you then sell it and go retire overseas?

 

[Papsmearer]

If you don't own the HDB, how can you then sell it and go retire overseas?

Kinana, u dumbshit, are u really a singaporean? I think you are some fucking FT leeching off sinkies.

U DON'T OWN THE HDB FLAT. Read your agreemnt. It clearly states that you are only a tenant and HDB is the land lord.

When you "sell" your flat, you are actually selling the right to live in your flat to someone else. The HDB treats this as an assignment of your 99 year lease to someone else. If you truly own something, you do not need someone's permission to sell it. But you must alwaysget HDB permission because u are actually assigning your rights to enjoy the flat to someone else. This other person pays you money to "buy" the flat from you. What they are actually paying is an assignment fee to you, as the flat was never yours to begin with. ALl the new "buyer" is doing is giving you money for the right to use your flat for the remainder of the lease term.

U cannot go overseas and retire from the proceeds of your HDB flat. Firstly, after you sell your flat, HDB and CPF will hold back any money that you used to buy your flat. On top of that, any money you used from your CPF for your monthly payments must also be returned to CPF from the proceeds of the "sale", with interest. Don't forget, people also borrow from credit card, or Line of credit to reno their flats, and you want to pay these down too. What's left to you? Can retire overseas on the balance meh? Bullshit. UNless u give up your citizenship and withdraw all your CPF, its not likely u can retire overseas just on the net proceeds of your HDB flat sale.

 

[Kinana]

If you don't own it, you can't sell it for money, its that simple.

 

[jubilee1919]

If you don't own it, you can't sell it for money, its that simple.

You can sell it.

 

[Kinana]

HDB don't want you to know? We all know the day we bought it.
WTH this idiot talking about?
According to his logic 999 years also you don't own already

 

[Papsmearer]

Yes I am aware of that. Most people do not understand how the system work or how their "profits" do not translate to actual wealth. Even so, realistically, getting married requires some form of property, by purchase or lease, so they have no choice but to join the system. Not sure if this has been mentioned before, besides the Nassim Jade incident, HJ and her man have also purchased 2 penthouses through a joint co. This area is very close to KH's previous apt near Orchard area. So yes, they will be affected should property prices go down too. Vested interests, no doubt.

Actually, I hate to break the news to you, but its gets much worse and much more depressing than that.

As you already mentioned, the cost of housing actually has a direct bearing on the fertility and birth rate of singaporeans. The women are right, there is no possbility of starting a family when they cannot assure themselvesof their own roof over their heads. In most countries, if you cannot afford to buy property, u rent first. Its much cheaper and it enables you to save for a down payment. So, they rent first and than start a family, and than when they can, they buy their first home. But in SIngapore, rents are just as expensive as a mortgage payment. If you pay rent, you can hardly save anything for a downpayment, and that's why people end up using their CPF savings. U can blame the high rent on the PAP too.

When I say its worse, just imagine this. HDB decides to sell u a flat at its cost of say $150,000. After down payment, what is your monthly payment? Probably no more than $700 a month. Now compare this with a $450K flat today, and your mortgage payment is $2000 plus every month. Lets say your mortgage payment was really $700, because you bought your flat at the HDB breakeven cost of $150K. Now all of a sudden, you can take a $1500 a month job, your wife can take a $900 a month job, and with only a $700 mortgage payment, you are doing ok.

But now, imagine u have a mortgage payment of $2000 +, you cannot accept a $1500 job, you have to get a $4000 job just to stay afloat. this is where the competitive age is lost, because our fixed cost is now so high. One of The PAP's big excuse is that we have to be competitive, so all the FTs are let in to undercut the local wages. Well, they cannot undercut if the locals can survive comfortably on $1500 a month. I know this case of a local born sinkie who was working as a crane operator earning $3600 per month. His company hired an FT from PRC for $1800 a month, and laid him off. If this crane operator had a low fixed cost, he can and will be able to work for $1800 per month, hence his employer need not look for an FT.

This is how bad the impact of a high cost HDB flat program is. It actually cost us our competitive age. Don't forget too that the govt. owns 90% of the land in singapore. They dictate the rent for everything. If the kopitiam uncle buys his kopitiam from HDB for $900K versus $250K in the old days, he has to charge the food sellers more in rent. They in turn charge their customers more per plate. Multiply this by 1000s of similar scenarios, and you have high cost of living. SO, this is why I say its gets much worse.

 

[Papsmearer]

HDB don't want you to know? We all know the day we bought it.
WTH this idiot talking about?
According to his logic 999 years also you don't own already

ok, read my lips u fucktard, YOU DON'T OWN THE FLAT. NOT NOW, NOT 999 YEARS FROM NOW.

 

[Loongsam]

You can buy and sell HDB flats.

HDB flat is a leasehold title, just like 99-yr lease, but with caveats if you buy directly from HDB.
But if you buy from open market, it follows market forces.

You can buy HDB flats, whether direct or from open market, but you need to be eligible. HDB flats'
eligibility is not the same as buying from private flats. HDB is public flat.

However, HDB flat's pricing is so high that it is actually strange that it is still considered public housing.

The affordability claim is hogwash, as HDB flats are really not affordable, considering it's public housing and
limited by caveats and eligibility.

HDB flats pricing is a fraud in disguise on the pretext of using the term public housing, but it's pricing is
used to inflate or deflate private housing prices, using the cost of land as a barometer.

If land cost is used to price HDB flat, like private developing, then we should not use public housing as the term
for HDB flat. It's bullshit, because land cost should be nominal for public housing, but it is not so.

End of story.

 

[Kinana]

if HDB flast are not affordable? Why are Singaporeans able to buy them? Not only that, Singkies bought condos which costs much more. Are you blind? Wake up and smell the coffee sir.

 

[streetsmart73]

If you don't own it, you can't sell it for money, its that simple.

hi there


1. yo, you are either braindead, brainless or just plain dumb!
2. public housing is some leasehold item.
3. get your facts right!

 

[Kinana]

Yes, its leasehold. We all know that. so how can anyone say its something HDB don't want you to know?

 

[po2wq]

if HDB flast are not affordable? Why are Singaporeans able to buy them? Not only that, Singkies bought condos which costs much more. Are you blind? Wake up and smell the coffee sir.

ya, man! ...

n got so loong q of buyers sum mor! ... if price is xpensif, where can got q? ...

in fact, gahmen shud increase price further ... loan period can xtend further 2 55 yrs n mor if necessary ... allow sinkies 2 retire oni wen dey drop dead @ ze offis ... lidat, ah loon can boast of a haier gdp ... ah loon n his jin-gang can pocket bigga bonus ... n let a li'l bit mor trickle thru his finger cracks so dat ah kinana can sramble 4 a bit mor bonus ...

 

[Papsmearer]

You can buy and sell HDB flats.

HDB flat is a leasehold title, just like 99-yr lease, but with caveats if you buy directly from HDB.
But if you buy from open market, it follows market forces.

You can buy HDB flats, whether direct or from open market, but you need to be eligible. HDB flats'
eligibility is not the same as buying from private flats. HDB is public flat.

However, HDB flat's pricing is so high that it is actually strange that it is still considered public housing.

The affordability claim is hogwash, as HDB flats are really not affordable, considering it's public housing and
limited by caveats and eligibility.

HDB flats pricing is a fraud in disguise on the pretext of using the term public housing, but it's pricing is
used to inflate or deflate private housing prices, using the cost of land as a barometer.

If land cost is used to price HDB flat, like private developing, then we should not use public housing as the term
for HDB flat. It's bullshit, because land cost should be nominal for public housing, but it is not so.

End of story.

Agree with you on most points except the first para. HDB is not a leasehold title. Its a lease. The difference is that in a actual leasehold title, you own the improvements (the actual physical structure of the building) on the land but not the land. In other words, u and the other condo owners own the walls, stairs, lifts, flooring, etc. At the end of the lease hold period, u either remove the improvements or they revert to the landowner.

In the HDB lease, its basically a glorified version of a car lease. U do not own anything at all, u are a tenant. U are just a renter, but you pay for your rent 99 years upfront. That's it.

Also, when u say open market, there is really not any open market in singapore. when the govt, owns 90% of the land, and 100% of HDB flats, they are the market maker and can control and manipulate pricing. Its impossible to have an open market when one party controls 90% of it. If you look at other expensive cities in the world to live in, lets say San Francisco. Well, the property market there is expensive, but that is created by real market forces. The city of San Fran does not own 90% of the properties in the cities. Developers compete with each other to buy land, build and sell to buyers. Here, the so call open market market is a mirage. The govt. already set the floor price by selling you the flat at the price they want. U in turn try not to sell for a loss by pricing it higher than what u paid for it. Other people are willing to buy your flat for a higher price because once again they look at comparable new flats sold by the HDB. and so on and so forth. What the HDB charges for new flats has a direct bearing on the price of resale flats. SO, not really open market.

 

[Papsmearer]

if HDB flast are not affordable? Why are Singaporeans able to buy them? Not only that, Singkies bought condos which costs much more. Are you blind? Wake up and smell the coffee sir.

My guess is that in the last few years, more than 50% of condos have been bought by PRC, and other rich FTs. If singaporeans are buying 90% of them, u may be right, but they are not. U better go back to buggering your son.

 

[Kinana]

My guess is that in the last few years, more than 50% of condos have been bought by PRC, and other rich FTs. If singaporeans are buying 90% of them, u may be right, but they are not. U better go back to buggering your son.

Its definitely less than 50%.
Anyway the PRCs have largely gone with colling measures and there is still no let down in demand from singkies.
So how can HDB be unafforable?

 

[jubilee1919]

Its definitely less than 50%.
Anyway the PRCs have largely gone with colling measures and there is still no let down in demand from singkies.
So how can HDB be unafforable?

They are making more affordable now with UOB proposing a 50 year loan. So now your son and grandson can carry on paying the "affordable" pigeon hole that you bought today.