Chinese Nationlist troops rescued the British troops

[Jah_rastafar_I]

Why was this forum started? To put up nakkid pictures of BCW! :p:p:p

Beautiful chinese whore can or not?

 

[Ramseth]

There's nothing new about some chinese ppl hating their own race and wanting to be the dogs of other races, the worst thing about such ppl is that they project their own failures and their own twisted thinking unto other chinese ppl.

Once again, you've misunderstood and miscontrued. I'm very proud to be Chinese, despite of all the failings of Chiang Kai-shek and Mao Tse-tung. I only say it as it is. The truth hurts, but it doesn't mean praising or defending everything Chinese is good for being Chinese.

Chiang and Mao combined to bring China backward 50 years at least. I certainly wouldn't sing songs praising them as heroes just for the sake that we're all Chinese, unless I'm Taiwanese or PRC and forced to do so.

 

[Jah_rastafar_I]

Once again, you've misunderstood and miscontrued. I'm very proud to be Chinese, despite of all the failings of Chiang Kai-shek and Mao Tse-tung. I only say it as it is. The truth hurts, but it doesn't mean praising or defending everything Chinese is good for being Chinese.

Chiang and Mao combined to bring China backward 50 years at least. I certainly wouldn't sing songs praising them as heroes just for the sake that we're all Chinese, unless I'm Taiwanese or PRC and forced to do so.

You were pretty misleading and i wasn't referring to your comments on chang or mao.

More specifically i was referring to you writing in that demeaning tone about china having more casualties compared to the japanese and still being classified as the victors. I could tell from your tone that you were even mocking them. You left out a few facts. China was engaged in a civil war, weakened even further after the fall of the qing. Prior to the fall of the qing during the days of the last emperor china was in some ways under japanese control and manchuria was under japanese control and of course various parts of it under european control. With the country in such a state and technologically inferior overall compared to the japs it would be obvious they would suffer numerous casualities compared to the japs. Do you actually admire the japs?


Let's put things into another perspective. Russia was the first european power to lose to the japs. Russia coulnd't really fight the germans and were it not for the cold winters and the vastness of russia they would have lost to the germans. When russia was part of the ussr they couldn't even defeat a few rag heads in afghanistan. Would any russian write like you in such a demeaning tone about russia since it failed in those instances i have stated above? I think not.

 

[Ramseth]

There's nothing misleading or demeaning in my tone. You're just too sensitive. There's a term for such a victory, it's called a pyrhic victory, i.e. losing more than your opponents but end up winning anyway, or gaining nothing out of winning anyway. Good you brought up USSR. In WW2, they lost horrendously too in terms of lives and properties, same as China.

However, USSR victory wasn't as pyrhically hollow as China. They were strong enough and shrewd enough to take advantage of the war-end situation to carve out North Korea and eastern Europe all the way to East Germany. In fact, also helping China communists to win the civil war and in turn, helped consolidate North Korea.

Please don't excuse Chinese weakness on the civil war. A country disunited and having a civil war, can't blame another country for taking advantage and invade. Where got such thing as, wait, let us settle our internal differences first, then come and fight, OK?

Please don't excuse Chinese weakness under Japanese invasion with Russia also lost to Japan before. Such mentality only weaken Chinese minds further. It doesn't matter Japan had beaten who before. China shouldn't have lost but lost. Face facts, learn and move forward.

You were pretty misleading and i wasn't referring to your comments on chang or mao.

More specifically i was referring to you writing in that demeaning tone about china having more casualties compared to the japanese and still being classified as the victors. I could tell from your tone that you were even mocking them. You left out a few facts. China was engaged in a civil war, weakened even further after the fall of the qing. Prior to the fall of the qing during the days of the last emperor china was in some ways under japanese control and manchuria was under japanese control and of course various parts of it under european control. With the country in such a state and technologically inferior overall compared to the japs it would be obvious they would suffer numerous casualities compared to the japs. Do you actually admire the japs?


Let's put things into another perspective. Russia was the first european power to lose to the japs. Russia coulnd't really fight the germans and were it not for the cold winters and the vastness of russia they would have lost to the germans. When russia was part of the ussr they couldn't even defeat a few rag heads in afghanistan. Would any russian write like you in such a demeaning tone about russia since it failed in those instances i have stated above? I think not.

 

[sleaguepunter]

However, USSR victory wasn't as pyrhically hollow as China. They were strong enough and shrewd enough to take advantage of the war-end situation to carve out North Korea and eastern Europe all the way to East Germany. In fact, also helping China communists to win the civil war and in turn, helped consolidate North Korea.

This part i dont totally agree. While Stalin did give some supplies to Mao, the quality & quantity left a lot to desire. In fact a big of the PLA aka Red Army were using captured IJA & KMT weapons. It until the capture of Shenyang did large number of heavy artillery fell into CCP hands. Stalin have no love for Mao, Stalin knew it USSR advantage that China remain divided so Stalin will not supply Mao wholeheartenly. Mao was known to have say that Chiang was Chinese Red Army's QuarterMaster as many equipments fell into CCP hands. There were pictures of Mao riding on US willy jeep when reviewing his troops after the capture of Peking.

Please don't excuse Chinese weakness on the civil war. A country disunited and having a civil war, can't blame another country for taking advantage and invade. Where got such thing as, wait, let us settle our internal differences first, then come and fight, OK?

This the part i dont fully understand, while i not sure of the total strength of the Kwantung, but it cannot exceed 1 million troops under arms. At any time, at most can use 300k. So chinese troops, KMT or CCP, should have numerical advantage over the IJA, yet chinese forces still retreat in IJA advances. Yes, yes, ppl will still use the excuse of IJA better equiped than the chinese but i find it a lously excuse.

Please don't excuse Chinese weakness under Japanese invasion with Russia also lost to Japan before. Such mentality only weaken Chinese minds further. It doesn't matter Japan had beaten who before. China shouldn't have lost but lost. Face facts, learn and move forward.

When compare rifles, chinese copy of the mauser is a better weapon than the jap arisaka rifle. In term of light mg, the chinese uses the czech ZB vz.26 which the British copy into the bren gun, which use the mauser 7.92mm cartridges, a much better weapon than the jap light mg. In fact, the chinese also had the german MG34, one of the best light mg in the world. So what did the chinese lost out on, maybe the lack of artillery pieces but then the IJA artillery when compare to western powers also look puny.

stories from my father that many chinese served in Han Jian Wang JingWei army, who switch side once japan lost the war together with their jap equipments. maybe that explain why KMT dont mount offensive against the IJA late into the war.

 

[Jah_rastafar_I]

There's nothing misleading or demeaning in my tone. You're just too sensitive. There's a term for such a victory, it's called a pyrhic victory, i.e. losing more than your opponents but end up winning anyway, or gaining nothing out of winning anyway. Good you brought up USSR. In WW2, they lost horrendously too in terms of lives and properties, same as China.

Yeah no shit sherlock a victory with great losses is called a pyrhic victory. The pt is it's a victory. Therefore why did you have to rub it in with your comments like it's nothing it's not a big deal despite the fact that they won? Doesn't this show your biaseness?

However, USSR victory wasn't as pyrhically hollow as China. They were strong enough and shrewd enough to take advantage of the war-end situation to carve out North Korea and eastern Europe all the way to East Germany. In fact, also helping China communists to win the civil war and in turn, helped consolidate North Korea.

Please don't excuse Chinese weakness on the civil war. A country disunited and having a civil war, can't blame another country for taking advantage and invade. Where got such thing as, wait, let us settle our internal differences first, then come and fight, OK?

LOL again you change the subject. Who's talking about blaming any country for taking advantage. The issue here at hand is about you and your commentary. Remember how you pissed off cheowyonglee? He wants to meet you and beat you up at the expense of going to jail. Let's say i made demeaning remarks about how worthless the german army was during WW2 and how they were defeated by the allies despite the fact that the allies have more resources and troops than them and the fact that the axis powers were really outnumbered but i leave out all those facts. Would any german person be pissed? I suppose so, they would be pissed at the fact that i left out the facts that led to their defeat. How about i start to chastise the russians while they controlled the ussr about losing the fight to some sheep herding mountain terrorists in afghanistan? I doubt any russian would take kindly to remarks like that. No, before you write any commentary to put down someone else you should write down the factors that led to the loss.

Please don't excuse Chinese weakness under Japanese invasion with Russia also lost to Japan before. Such mentality only weaken Chinese minds further. It doesn't matter Japan had beaten who before. China shouldn't have lost but lost. Face facts, learn and move forward.

WHat rubbish are you spouting? It's a fact that china was already severly weakened by the civil war and the fight with the colonial powers that led to the fall of the qing dynasty oh so by not mentioning these facts and leaving them out will strengthen chinese minds?

I brought up the russian loss to japan to showcase how you write things. Let's follow your logic, wow the russians really suck losing to such a small country like japan see how worthless they are. No russian person should critisize what i wrote if they do they are weak. Would you agree with me? Most likely not, from this we can see your biasness. When other countries fail it's never their fault. Let's keep on insulting chinese failures and hey even if they win the war let's belittle their victory.

You see i exposed another double standard u have displayed here. Downplay their victory after ww2 but still mock them for their loss to japan despite the facts that they were under going a civil war and the empire earlier had been ruined by european powers and other factors.

 

[Ramseth]

For the record, the Russians were so pissed with the defeat to Japan that they overthrew the Czar and built up Soviet Union. For the rest, let's agree that there're different points of views for different people.

 

[Sideswipe]

Once again, you've misunderstood and miscontrued. I'm very proud to be Chinese, despite of all the failings of Chiang Kai-shek and Mao Tse-tung. I only say it as it is. The truth hurts, but it doesn't mean praising or defending everything Chinese is good for being Chinese.

Chiang and Mao combined to bring China backward 50 years at least. I certainly wouldn't sing songs praising them as heroes just for the sake that we're all Chinese, unless I'm Taiwanese or PRC and forced to do so.

Mao will always be judged on what he did after 1949 but Chiang legacy was more controversial.

how do one judge Chiang? - Nanjing Decade that was more stable than preceding warlord era with improvement economically and socially or the ineffectual second Sino-Japanese war or after WWII and disappointing eventual defeat to Mao Communists in 1949.

When KMT "ruled China from 1927 to 1937", China had accumulated problems form Qing Dynasty with almost collapsed economy at central government side and foreign powers taking lot of resources and revenues that belong to central govt.

Chiang govt had no stability period to govern China effectively. He was always troubled by the Communists and rebelling warlords throughout Nanjing decade then full blown war with Japan in 1937, after 1946 when war ended, Chinese Communists have regrouped and a tough opponent arises again.

IMO, Chiang was a decent leader of China during that chaotic period.

 

[bryanlim1972]

Those who have led wars have never lasted to enjoy the spoils. Just read your history. The US is powerful country not because of its military might but because of its economy and its inventions. Where the US started wars, they lost.

from attacking chinese, now u take on the US.

The US won the war of independence and whopped the ass of the then superpower British Emprire. the US of today is borne of blood and tears from their war of independence.

you should read your history instead of telling others to.

 

[cheowyonglee]

Yeah no shit sherlock a victory with great losses is called a pyrhic victory. The pt is it's a victory. Therefore why did you have to rub it in with your comments like it's nothing it's not a big deal despite the fact that they won? Doesn't this show your biaseness?




LOL again you change the subject. Who's talking about blaming any country for taking advantage. The issue here at hand is about you and your commentary. Remember how you pissed off cheowyonglee? He wants to meet you and beat you up at the expense of going to jail. Let's say i made demeaning remarks about how worthless the german army was during WW2 and how they were defeated by the allies despite the fact that the allies have more resources and troops than them and the fact that the axis powers were really outnumbered but i leave out all those facts. Would any german person be pissed? I suppose so, they would be pissed at the fact that i left out the facts that led to their defeat. How about i start to chastise the russians while they controlled the ussr about losing the fight to some sheep herding mountain terrorists in afghanistan? I doubt any russian would take kindly to remarks like that. No, before you write any commentary to put down someone else you should write down the factors that led to the loss.





WHat rubbish are you spouting? It's a fact that china was already severly weakened by the civil war and the fight with the colonial powers that led to the fall of the qing dynasty oh so by not mentioning these facts and leaving them out will strengthen chinese minds?

I brought up the russian loss to japan to showcase how you write things. Let's follow your logic, wow the russians really suck losing to such a small country like japan see how worthless they are. No russian person should critisize what i wrote if they do they are weak. Would you agree with me? Most likely not, from this we can see your biasness. When other countries fail it's never their fault. Let's keep on insulting chinese failures and hey even if they win the war let's belittle their victory.

You see i exposed another double standard u have displayed here. Downplay their victory after ww2 but still mock them for their loss to japan despite the facts that they were under going a civil war and the empire earlier had been ruined by european powers and other factors.

thanks for the support! agree very agree.... if anyone are to say bad about Chiang and the Nationalist government, do so with facts and with hard solid facts and reason.If Nationalist are bad, then what about Mao Communist???

To those Pro Commie China fellows, please don't deny that Communist ruled China
had slapped their own face by practising capitalist economic now!!!
Why then Mao curse the Nationalist capitalist for being evil and want to bring Communist style of government into China???

Remember the fact that if not for the Nationalist troops fighting in the frontline, the Japanese army would already rolled over every corner of China and Mao would not even survived by then!!! A fact is a fact and don't deny it just because you guys love Mao!!!And i wonder what's so great about Mao that so many Commie treat him like God when he had killed so many of their own citizens at that period of time!!!

 

[Ramseth]

To those Pro Commie China fellows, please don't deny that Communist ruled China
had slapped their own face by practising capitalist economic now!!!
Why then Mao curse the Nationalist capitalist for being evil and want to bring Communist style of government into China???

For the record again, if you visit my past postings, I'm even more disgusted with the communist great leap forward and cultural revolution than I am with the nationalists. You can ask me then, what then is my position, even on hindsight, as to what I think should be good for China and Chinese. A constitutional monarchy would be good as far as I can see, but by happenstance, the ruling monarch was minority Manchurian royalty, quite unacceptable to the Han majority for a perpetual constitutional monarchy. Yuan Shikai was a Han and attempted it, but was summarily dethroned as an unscrupulous opportunist. Sun Yat-sen would never consider it, the idea of retaining monarchy being too distasteful to him in his fight for republicanism. In the end, didn't both Chiang Kai-Shek and Mao Tse-tung behaved like Ying Zheng (Qin Shihuang), Xiang Yu (Chu Bawang) and Liu Bang (Han Gaozu) in the days of old?

 

[Jah_rastafar_I]

For the record, the Russians were so pissed with the defeat to Japan that they overthrew the Czar and built up Soviet Union. For the rest, let's agree that there're different points of views for different people.

May i ask why didn't you chastise the russians for being so worthless that they could lose to the japs despite being 100x bigger? I doubt the tsar was over thrown cos of the lost to japan.


Just simply admit it. You're biased against the chinese both nationalist and communist or whatever. Then that'll be it.

How about stating the chinese built up the economy and are already looking to be the next super power in probably the next 50 or so years? How about that? You seem to be very obessed with the time period that china was humiliated and going through bad times. Perhaps i should follow you in future when discussions about countries or people surface. Let's take maradonna as an eg, i should ignore all his goal scoring days and the fact that he's a very good football player and just focus on his drug habits and weight gain, if i merely did that would ppl be pissed with me?

 

[Sideswipe]

The Republican era ( 1911-1949 ) was probably the most chaotic period in Chinese history alongside Five Dynasties and Ten Kingdoms and Warring States.

Chinese territories frequently changed hands like Risk among different warlords, again and again. There were big and small warlords all within a province that fight among themselves then the victors started fighting the neighboring warlords. There were the foreign powers already in China ready to loot and plunder.

Maybe China was lucky to get out of that mess in 1 piece, unfortunately it was the Communists that won.

 

[wuqi256]

The Republican era ( 1911-1949 ) was probably the most chaotic period in Chinese history alongside Five Dynasties and Ten Kingdoms and Warring States.

Chinese territories frequently changed hands like Risk among different warlords, again and again. There were big and small warlords all within a province that fight among themselves then the victors started fighting the neighboring warlords. There were the foreign powers already in China ready to loot and plunder.

Maybe China was lucky to get out of that mess in 1 piece, unfortunately it was the Communists that won.

Bows deeply in reverence. "Xian sheng, xie xie nin jing cai de zhi jiao, xue sheng shou jiao le"

 

[wuqi256]

May i ask why didn't you chastise the russians for being so worthless that they could lose to the japs despite being 100x bigger? I doubt the tsar was over thrown cos of the lost to japan.


Just simply admit it. You're biased against the chinese both nationalist and communist or whatever. Then that'll be it.

How about stating the chinese built up the economy and are already looking to be the next super power in probably the next 50 or so years? How about that? You seem to be very obessed with the time period that china was humiliated and going through bad times. Perhaps i should follow you in future when discussions about countries or people surface. Let's take maradonna as an eg, i should ignore all his goal scoring days and the fact that he's a very good football player and just focus on his drug habits and weight gain, if i merely did that would ppl be pissed with me?

Not taking anyones side but inclined to agree here, maybe the tone used was a bit bias or harsh on the Chinese. Knowing and learning from ones past mistake is one thing but sometimes overly doing it may be misconstrued as something entirely different.

Anyway a very good and enlightening posts from all parties. Applause for everyone.

As a history buff, I got into a hobby of collecting swords recently, though i only collect Chinese historical types like the Qi sword and "Yan Mao/Yan Ling" swords, not Japanese katanas.

Man, the Qi sword(from warring states) made from replicating one found in a tomb is really one piece solid steel and even the handle is made from a single piece of metal. The balance is superb and as its from single billet of metal, very strong.

It "sings" too as in it makes a very scary sound when you draw it out of the scabbard and when you strike the flat end of the sword. Can really do what Feng Xuan did when it recorded that he strikes the sword to make a song. The ancients are truly amazing. All the rest of my collection, none of them can do what this does.

 

[Jah_rastafar_I]

i made a mistake for my 2nd last post. China is looking at super power status in probably 10 yrs or give it 20 yrs. Boy i bet that would really piss ppl off.

 

[Jah_rastafar_I]

As a history buff, I got into a hobby of collecting swords recently, though i only collect Chinese historical types like the Qi sword and "Yan Mao/Yan Ling" swords, not Japanese katanas.

Man, the Qi sword(from warring states) made from replicating one found in a tomb is really one piece solid steel and even the handle is made from a single piece of metal. The balance is superb and as its from single billet of metal, very strong.

It "sings" too as in it makes a very scary sound when you draw it out of the scabbard and when you strike the flat end of the sword. Can really do what Feng Xuan did when it recorded that he strikes the sword to make a song. The ancients are truly amazing. All the rest of my collection, none of them can do what this does.

Hi how did u manage to obtain such a replica? I gather you are not in sg? I doubt sg would allow the import of such a sword since it would be classified as a dangerous weapon.

 

[cheowyonglee]

evidence of Mao anti Chinese culture pictures...! Alot of treasures now been protected in Republic Of China Taiwan island.If not for Chiang smart move, all these great treasure will be lost entirely to those stupid bastard red guards under Mao!!! Mao, i swear i will burn your dead body one day!!! :oIo: :oIo: :oIo:

毛共政權毀我中華文物一覽表！

And more from here...

http://www.uocn.org/bbs/viewthread.php?tid=16742&extra=&page=1

 

[cheowyonglee]

look at this lady from the Nationalist Government... i nearly cried when i watch this.Thousand of Nationalist soldiers died during the retreat into the deadly moutain.Brave Nationalist soldiers....

走出野人山的女兵

Part 1
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part 2
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part 3
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part 4 (this part ... at the timing 1.00, shee how she scolded the stupid Mao communist red guards condemning her when she was fighting the japs and in the end ... was condemed by the mao china.)

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really cried my heart out...

 

[Ramseth]

The Republican era ( 1911-1949 ) was probably the most chaotic period in Chinese history alongside Five Dynasties and Ten Kingdoms and Warring States.

Chinese territories frequently changed hands like Risk among different warlords, again and again. There were big and small warlords all within a province that fight among themselves then the victors started fighting the neighboring warlords. There were the foreign powers already in China ready to loot and plunder.

Maybe China was lucky to get out of that mess in 1 piece, unfortunately it was the Communists that won.

1949 to 1976 was even worse. Evolutionary retrogression at gear 5 and self-glorifyingly called great leap forward and cultural revolution. What was inflicted on China during this period is why PRC Chinese today are so different to most of Singapore (and other overseas) Chinese ancestors who came from Ming/Qing Dynasty or ROC.