Chinese Nationlist troops rescued the British troops

[Sideswipe]

China has an illustrious history but its not without its failings, the Song dynasty was an especially bad one. Too much focus on the literary and Confucian theories without having enough martial skills(except a few like Yue Fei, etc) and corruption led to the ultimate fall of a country.

Song 宋朝 was the only dynasty in Chinese history that was truly defeated by foreign forces. ( excluding Ming who fall to Qing because of internal wars. ) Was Song really weak?

Song was the second longest dynasty in Chinese Imperial History. Chinese living under Southern Song lived a good life.
Han - 410 years, Song - 319, Tang - 289, Ming - 276, Qing - 268

Song since founding had to deal with very strong warmongers neighbors ( Liao, Western Xia, Jin ) but her ultimate demise was dealt by Kublai Khan Mongols, the ultimate fighting machine during that era which nobody can defeat. Southern Song held out against Mongols longer than most countries did.

Chinese historians are unkind to Song because of her poor military records, paying tributes to the likes of Liao and Jin, Song replaced by Yuan, a foreign power. All this hurt Chinese pride.

 

[wuqi256]

Only 1 dynasty in Chinese history was ended by foreign forces. That is Song 宋朝 but was Song really weak?

Song was the second longest dynasty in Chinese Imperial History. Chinese living under Southern Song lived a good life.
Han - 410 years, Song - 319, Tang - 289, Ming - 276, Qing - 268

Song since founding had to deal with very strong warmongers neighbors ( Liao, Western Xia, Jin ) but her ultimate demise was dealt by Kublai Khan Mongols, the ultimate fighting machine during that era which nobody can defeat. Southern Song held out against Mongols longer than most countries did.

Chinese historians are unkind to Song because of her poor military records, paying tributes to the likes of Liao and Jin, Song replaced by Yuan, a foreign power. All this hurt Chinese pride.

Thanks for your inputs
http://library.thinkquest.org/12255/library/dynasty/sung.html

 

[Jah_rastafar_I]

Well said!!! Applause. This is true, we need to seek lessons from the past and pick up from where we left off.
Folks keep saying chinese just invented gun powder, etc.

They forgot, even the humble toilet paper was from the Chinese.

Many ppl just want to talk about gunpowder and refuse to look else where i believe that there are more chinese inventions other than the well known ones.


Ppl always look at the bad things of china and overlook their good points. Think about it. Isn't it true.

 

[Jah_rastafar_I]

Only 1 dynasty in Chinese history was ended by foreign forces. That is Song 宋朝 but was Song really weak?

Song was the second longest dynasty in Chinese Imperial History. Chinese living under Southern Song lived a good life.
Han - 410 years, Song - 319, Tang - 289, Ming - 276, Qing - 268

Song since founding had to deal with very strong warmongers neighbors ( Liao, Western Xia, Jin ) but her ultimate demise was dealt by Kublai Khan Mongols, the ultimate fighting machine during that era which nobody can defeat. Southern Song held out against Mongols longer than most countries did.

Chinese historians are unkind to Song because of her poor military records, paying tributes to the likes of Liao and Jin, Song replaced by Yuan, a foreign power. All this hurt Chinese pride.

thanks for all of this info. Yes the mongols were very powerful. Remember not just the chinese but pratically the entire eurasian and probably russian kingdoms were all defeated. Eastern europe and probably western europe would have fallen too if not for the death of genghis. The munghals the rulers of india, were descended from the mongolians. Why else would so many indians have the last name khan. Therefore to only solely blame china for falling to the mongol horde is pretty bias since everyone that faced them fell and those that didn't were lucky cos of natural barriers like jungles and seas.


Anyway that's a long time ago. Yes it hurt chinese pride but then so what? Mongolian became a part of china much later and part of it was divided into inner mongolia i am sure it really hurt them.

It's just like making fun of the brits of today since they were conquered by the romans. Empires come and go the British empire was great once but it's all gone today. Btw what about making fun of india since they were colonized by the Brits? Nope let's ignore that fact.

 

[scroobal]

Chinese as a race are probably the most industries and can see value that no other race can sense except for jews and the sikhs.

You drop 10 chinese in a foreign desolate land and within a year, a small economy will mushroom. They are always evolving in what they do and very inventive in getting ahead. These are also same traits that makes them avoid military conflicts as it not worth the return. If you read Sun Tzu, the entire approch is avoidance and protecting oneself.

Those who have led wars have never lasted to enjoy the spoils. Just read your history. The US is powerful country not because of its military might but because of its economy and its inventions. Where the US started wars, they lost.

 

[wuqi256]

Chinese as a race are probably the most industries and can see value that no other race can sense except for jews and the sikhs.

You drop 10 chinese in a foreign desolate land and within a year, a small economy will mushroom. They are always evolving in what they do and very inventive in getting ahead. These are also same traits that makes them avoid military conflicts as it not worth the return. If you read Sun Tzu, the entire approch is avoidance and protecting oneself.

Those who have led wars have never lasted to enjoy the spoils. Just read your history. The US is powerful country not because of its military might but because of its economy and its inventions. Where the US started wars, they lost.

Good point, since our ancient ancestor is brought up, on the topic of the often quoted Sun Zi(Sun Wu), i would also like to introduce his often forgotten counterpart or his peer. Wuqi who is the inspiration for the name i use in this forum.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wu_Qi

 

[scroobal]

Thats explains your nick. Good one.

Sadly not many people know their history or even their own culture. Here is another. The chinese when they slaughter a chicken,every part is used including the spare parts, the blood and the legs. Various herbs and spices are used and many forms of cooking is applied to deliver hundreds of recipes for various occasions and for medical purposes. The feather that is left is used to stuff the pillows. No other race has achieved so much with one chicken.

Its not only the chicken, its everything they touch. The fastest growing economic activity for example in Canada is asian groceries. Even on the coldest town, there will be a chinese takeaway.

Good point, since our ancient ancestor is brought up, on the topic of the often quoted Sun Zi(Sun Wu), i would also like to introduce his often forgotten counterpart or his peer. Wuqi who is the inspiration for the name i use in this forum.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wu_Qi

 

[cheowyonglee]

remember the heros....

 

[Sideswipe]

remember the heros....

The Chinese nationalists officers and men who fought 80% of Sino-Japanese war, many are buried on Wuchih Mountain Military Cemetery in Taipei Taiwan, away from Chinese Mainland whom they defended with their lives.

 

[eatshitndie]

Song 宋朝 was the only dynasty in Chinese history that was truly defeated by foreign forces. ( excluding Ming who fall to Qing because of internal wars. ) Was Song really weak?

Song was the second longest dynasty in Chinese Imperial History. Chinese living under Southern Song lived a good life.
Han - 410 years, Song - 319, Tang - 289, Ming - 276, Qing - 268

Song since founding had to deal with very strong warmongers neighbors ( Liao, Western Xia, Jin ) but her ultimate demise was dealt by Kublai Khan Mongols, the ultimate fighting machine during that era which nobody can defeat. Southern Song held out against Mongols longer than most countries did.

Chinese historians are unkind to Song because of her poor military records, paying tributes to the likes of Liao and Jin, Song replaced by Yuan, a foreign power. All this hurt Chinese pride.

song had the opportunity to join forces with jin in the north to fight the mongols but refused due to deep suspicion and hatred of jin, a lack of strategic vision in the emperor's court, and tragic disrespect of mongol military might. even if they were to join the jin to face a more potent enemy, the defeat of jin and eventually southern song was inevitable - somewhat ironic that song would ally with the mongols momentarily to seize jin territory while the mongols were doing most of the hard fighting. the more than a decade old defence of song (1259 to 1275) along the yangtze was spectacular, stubborn and heroic. (wish there are more military books on this specific struggle.) out of necessity and constant fear of elimination, first from jin then from mongols, came inventions. if song were to be left unmolested at the yangtze by the mongols, we would have seen more fascinating stuff coming out of china.

 

[eatshitndie]

The Chinese nationalists officers and men who fought 80% of Sino-Japanese war, many are buried on Wuchih Mountain Military Cemetery in Taipei Taiwan, away from Chinese Mainland whom they defended with their lives.

unfortunately, there was a nationalist general who was under house arrest all his life. he married the maidservant who took care of him. cks put him under house arrest because of envy.

 

[sleaguepunter]

. the more than a decade old defence of song (1259 to 1275) along the yangtze was spectacular, stubborn and heroic. (wish there are more military books on this specific struggle.) out of necessity and constant fear of elimination, first from jin then from mongols, came inventions. if song were to be left unmolested at the yangtze by the mongols, we would have seen more fascinating stuff coming out of china.

not sure if there any book on this, but you can click on the link to read more. I hope you can read traditional chinese scripts.

http://big5.cntv.cn/gate/big5/www.c...ue/topic/science/C13125/20041109/101810.shtml

 

[eatshitndie]

not sure if there any book on this, but you can click on the link to read more. I hope you can read traditional chinese scripts.

http://big5.cntv.cn/gate/big5/www.c...ue/topic/science/C13125/20041109/101810.shtml

great article! thanks!

 

[kensington]

unfortunately, there was a nationalist general who was under house arrest all his life. he married the maidservant who took care of him. cks put him under house arrest because of envy.

His name was Zhang Xueliang and that was the Xi'an incident when he kidnapped Chiang to force a compromise from Chiang into fighting together with the Communists against the Japanese. He never returned to mainland China though he was regarded as a hero of the history by the PRC establishment. His former residence was extensively refurbished and renovated by the mainland govt to entice him to return but sadly, he never did.

He was released by Lee Teng Hui in 1990 and permitted to leave Taiwan and he passed away in 2001

On 6 April 1936, Zhang Xueliang met with Zhou Enlai to plan the end of the Chinese Civil War. In the Xi'an incident (12 December 1936), Zhang and another general Yang Hucheng kidnapped Chiang Kai-shek and imprisoned the head of the Kuomintang government until he agreed to form a united front with the Communists against the Japanese invasion.

 

[Liquigas]

Song was the second longest dynasty in Chinese Imperial History. Chinese living under Southern Song lived a good life.
Han - 410 years, Song - 319, Tang - 289, Ming - 276, Qing - 268

No lah, Zhou dynasty, existed during ancient time before Christ, and which lasted 800 odd years is the longest in Chinese history ...

 

[Jah_rastafar_I]

No lah, Zhou dynasty, existed during ancient time before Christ, and which lasted 800 odd years is the longest in Chinese history ...

He wrote 2nd longest for song leh not the longest.


Reading helps.......

 

[moolightaffairs]

hey guys! stop quarreling. a lot of Chinese are proud that they are Chinese and will defend whoever speak ill about Chinese or even the communist China. its not that we dont broaden our mind, but by reading and studying some ancient Chinese history will explain a lot of things in modern age and you can see a lot of people are repeating what our ancestors are doing! even lky thought he clever, but people are doing it hundreds and even thousands yrs ago! for example, when he is getting ready for his son to become pm. he change all the perm sec and almost all the ministers. some old bird also asked to retire. this is what a lot of emperors are doing in diff dynasties.

Chinese are smart, but sometime too smart and become political and selfish. Luckily in Chinese history, we got a lot of selfless heroes when Chinese was in danger. look at my signature and you will know some of them.

 

[da dick]

i frankly don't care much about the commies who helped put the family lee into power. so dun you politiking monkeys pigeonhole me with those "lot of chinese" gangstas!

 

[cheowyonglee]

unfortunately, there was a nationalist general who was under house arrest all his life. he married the maidservant who took care of him. cks put him under house arrest because of envy.

his name is 孙立人。The Communist scared of this guy.He nearly crushed the Communist elite troops lead by 林彪.If he success, i don't think the Communist could have won the war.Too bad, Jiang ordered him to return and took off his post.
Watch the videos to understand more...

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[eatshitndie]

He wrote 2nd longest for song leh not the longest.


Reading helps.......

well duh. if zhou was the longest, song would be relegated to 3rd longest, not 2nd longest. nonetheless, song should be considered one of china's greatest dynasties, despite the conquest by jin and subsequently the mongols.