Association of Muslim Professionals finally wake up and take their PAP partner.

[Dreamer1]

"It will be a strategic blunder of momentous proportion and we will be signing our own death warrants if we vote against the PAP. What would we be voting for is simply more chauvinistic Chinese groups to deal with.

It is better for us to deal with one chauvinistic Chinese group, that is the PAP, than to deal with several chang huayi Chinese groups who are equally tribal."

My friend,I see yr point,

OK,then good luck to you,but I have absolutely NO interest in whatever struggle you see fit to pursue.

Do not forget,the world has more than 1.3 billion "double talk" Chinese and probably 1.6 billion "triple talk" Indians.

Good luck to you!But I do not think you can be successful.

 

[longbow]

My example of Pedra Branca is to show that ancestral claims are irrelevant - does not matter who was here before.

My point has always been that all your talk about Malay awakening in Singapore is nonsense.

1) What is important is rule of law
2) Singapore is majority controlled by Chinese and there is no possibility of dubious claims by Malays on land in Singapore
3) Pedra Branca - a perfect example of Malaysia trying to prove historic claim on that island vs Singapore's legal claim and you see the result.
4) The only possibility of any form of Tanah Melayu is for you to go buy a small piece of freehold land.
5) Singapore is a sov nation and not beholden to China or any country.

You are confused over what nationality and ethnicity is all about. Awarding PB does not mean awarding it to the Chinese as a tribe. It means awarding it to a country. It does not mean that PB is now another little province of China.

"Nobody cares" is a way of deluding yourself since the only reason you can turn your pipe dream and this country into a Mandarin speaking province of China immediately evaporates when the issue of whether you have the right to do so lies in the fundamental question of who are the rightful owners of this land, i.e. can non-owners do as do as they please?

 

[kukubird58]

Well, I started working in 1981. My Chinese colleagues were mainly O and A level holders with a few graduates and diploma holders. Its a fact that the vast majority (about 90%) mainly spoke in English. From the early 90s, I noticed a change. The past 10 years, most of the people coming through are mainly graduates and diploma holders and they mainly speak Mandarin at work. The campaign must have been a success. Most of the present workers were in school when it started.

hahaha....bro, since you keep talking about the Speak Mandarin Campaign, can you without googling tell us the theme of the current Campaign, the publicity posters, when campaign was launched this year and by who, etc...
My point is that the Campaign is such low profile that I personally is not aware that it is still on......

Give you another perspective, I spend some years in SAF, the Chinese in Mindef and SAF, the Generals and Cols always speak in English during meetings and official events.....really baffles me that you concluded that the Campaign must have been a success.

You still do not get the point that when Chinese pple suddenly switched to speak Mandarin in front of (English, Malay, Indain, German, Dutch, Italian....), it just that they don't want you to hear certain things. Same thing when Malays switched to Malay, Indians switched to Indian; etc. It definitely is not due to Speak mandarin Campaign, Speak Malay Campaign, Speak Indian Campaign, etc...)

 

[Malays Must Vote PAP!]

Do not forget,the world has more than 1.3 billion "double talk" Chinese and probably 1.6 billion "triple talk" Indians.

You forgot my one billion plus Muslim ummah.

 

[Malays Must Vote PAP!]

My example of Pedra Branca is to show that ancestral claims are irrelevant - does not matter who was here before.

Arguments for PB was carried out both by Malaysian and Singapore along national claims and not tribal ownership. The problem with the Chinese is that they associate us with Malaysia and conveniently overlook the simple fact that we need not and are not claiming ownership on the basis of being Malaysians but on the basis of being the righful owners of this island.

My point has always been that all your talk about Malay awakening in Singapore is nonsense.

So why fear the prevalence of the tudungs? Continue to dismiss it at your own risk.

 

[Malays Must Vote PAP!]

Give you another perspective, I spend some years in SAF, the Chinese in Mindef and SAF, the Generals and Cols always speak in English during meetings and official events.....really baffles me that you concluded that the Campaign must have been a success.

If you have, surely you must have seen the ubiquitous "chang huayi, huaren huayi" posters, signages dangling everywhere and rudely , insensitively and provocatively intruding into the personal, public and workspaces of the Malays, Indians and Eurasians.

 

[kukubird58]

If you have, surely you must have seen the ubiquitous "chang huayi, huaren huayi" posters, signages dangling everywhere and rudely , insensitively and provocatively intruding into the personal, public and workspaces of the Malays, Indians and Eurasians.

sorry, I really did not notice any posters at those places I frequent....cinemas, shopping centres; etc.
hence if it meant for me as a Chinese, it has no effect...

I can also tell you as a Chinese.....those in the fifties older older predominatly still speak dialects when they gather, in kopitiams, in hawker centres, in markets, in turf clubs; etc....

 

[kukubird58]

hahaha...to put it in simple English.
My view is that the Speak Mandarin Campaigh has not been successful so far.

Whether the Campaign offended other races is not the focus of my arguements.
I am very clear such arguements can go on and on till the cows come home with no definite conclusions.

 

[scroobal]

I suspect this has been a false front endeavor all the while.

Your reason to support the PAP does not hold water. The PAP has consistently crafted the message that the Malays are a threat to Singapore and therefor cannot be in the SAF except in some sterile capacity. Every time the PAP or its leaders raise the issue about Malays, it something negative about the race and the Govt is stepping in to "help". The other opposition have been silent about other races for decades.

Your first few posts gave the impression that you could not craft a decent sentence and your argument is that Chinese are recent arrivals and should be kicked. out. And your moniker is not something someone would choose. Now you write fluently. You battled with the rastafarian because you needed to have a forum and he being a racist with borderline IQ on a good day was the perfect foil.

Roy and others seem to put up better arguments than you in support of non-chinese. Yours is straight forward - the Malays own the land and the Chinese get out and the Malays will vote PAP. And nothing else.

I am in two minds if your are indeed a Malay as as you are destroying the race by your approach. First the old man indicates that the Malays won't assimilate and you come in and do the same. What gives?

It will be a strategic blunder of momentous proportion and we will be signing our own death warrants if we vote against the PAP. What would we be voting for is simply more chauvinistic Chinese groups to deal with.

Please remember, we are no fools. It has taken a very long time but we have finally learned the art of duplicity and double talk from the Chinese.

 

[scroobal]

You gotta to be in another planet altogether.

Everyone knows the whole campaign is political. It has nothing to do with nation building or nationalistic in nature. It is not a program for assimilation.

Senior civil servants and captains of industry of Chinese descent have complained about the campaign when it was first started and the disquiet it was creating. They were told that it was political and not to butt in. The irony was when the British and American chamber of commerce when consulted was fully supportive of the political programme as it was not their home and no skin off their back. They can't be bothered what dialect their amahs spoke. That neutralised the complaints from local private sector.

When GCT took over, representation came from the usual senior quarters. GCT whose mum is chinese language teacher surprising agreed to tone it down. During his 14 year tenure, it was indeed a low profile campaign. When he stepped down, the PAP cadres who control the Chinese faction came back roaring and got their favourite person to run shotgun again - old man. He started giving speeches on Mandarin, writing books about his time learning the language. He introduced his teachers and they gave interviews and released their own books. And the campaign came back with amighty roar.

In politics its called dog whistle politics - the message is targetted and the rest would be oblivious to it. The past PM of Australia John Howard is the acknowledged master of it. No one could play the race card better than he can and second to him is old man. Mahathir comes a close 3rd.

We now got Singaporeans whose proficiency in English is mediocre, Mandarin is not even close to PRC as expected but the ability of the PAP to retain their votes is excellent. By way you do realise that Mandarin is not your or my mother tongue. If Old man spoke Hokkein fluently and Lim Chin Siong spoke Hakka, you do realise that we will be just like Taiwan where Hokkein is the official language and economic powerhouse like them.

My point is that the Campaign is such low profile that I personally is not aware that it is still on......

 

[yellow_people]

It will be a strategic blunder of momentous proportion and we will be signing our own death warrants if we vote against the PAP. What would we be voting for is simply more chauvinistic Chinese groups to deal with.

Its good the Malay is smart enough realize this. The anti-PAP Chinese extremist are far worse than the PAP. Spread the word to to all Malay at gatherings and during prayers.

For all that chest thumping and arrogance about being the 75% majority, the Chinese seem to be fast losing their rice-bowls to Ah Neh and Pinoy FTs. They can't seem to vote out, let alone throw out the PAP. Worse still they blame the 14% Malay, segregated by HDB ethnic quota, for voting the PAP. The Chinese may be the majority but it certainly does not remotely look like they are in charge.

I will say this to the Malay and any minority citizen - do not support the Chinese opposition in this or any other elections. Let the 75% Chinese majority stew in their own pot.



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[Forvendet]

Chinese 75%? Oh really? If I understand correctly, Singapore population is computed with citizens + PRs. Are there many Malay PRs? I think not. So the 15% Malays are mostly voters (except minors). Chinese voters? I'd guess that lessing off the Chinese PRs, they amount to less than 50% of the population.

 

[yellow_people]

I am definitely no match to PAP in racial politics. They have been playing it for decades. But it is definitely damaging for us to have people who start to speak in chauvinist tongues.

See my signature.



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[yellow_people]

Chinese 75%? Oh really? If I understand correctly, Singapore population is computed with citizens + PRs. Are there many Malay PRs? I think not. So the 15% Malays are mostly voters (except minors). Chinese voters? I'd guess that lessing off the Chinese PRs, they amount to less than 50% of the population.

It's about the population demographics and not about the number of citizen + PR or EP or WP, for that matter. LKY is not worred about losing elections. He is worried about a popular revolt. As long as the "practical" Chinese form the overwhelming majority; he is safe. That is why there has been a long standing policy in place, given the declining fertility rate of the Chinese since 1980; that the Chinese majority must be maintained at all cost even by importing Confucian stock from abroad. That is reason why the coffeestall owner in Little India has to employ a PRC to flip pratas as the quota for indians has been filed.

Listen to what LKY himself had to say about the importance of maintaining the 75% Chinese proportion:

"We have a practical people whose culture tells them that contention for the sake of contention leads to disaster. I have said this on many a previous occasion; that had the mix in Singapore been different, had it been 75% Indians, 15% Malays and the rest Chinese, it would not have worked. Because they believe in the politics of contention, of opposition. But because the culture was such that the populace sought a practical way out of their difficulties, therefore it has worked." Lee Kuan Yew in Parliament, 1985.





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[Forvendet]

"The root cause of minorities being left behind is a result of dysfunctional families."
- Goh Meng Seng, Sec-Gen, National Solidarity Party; 15 Feb 2010.
-----------------------
"Whether you like it or not, we will need more Malays or Indian candidates in order to field more Chinese candidates. Without them you cannot contest more GRCs."
- Goh Meng Seng, Sec-Gen, National Solidarity Party; TOC; 27 Oct 2010.

And this madman thinks he can win Malay or minority votes by insulting them and making it that he's just fielding them in order to field more Chinese.

 

[Malays Must Vote PAP!]

I am in two minds if your are indeed a Malay as as you are destroying the race by your approach. First the old man indicates that the Malays won't assimilate and you come in and do the same. What gives?

If you want to examine your conscience and be honest, your doubts about being me being a Malay is simply because you do not think that Malays are able to think, let alone think strategically and think in terms of our strategic long term interest or are able to write in decent English. To you and your fellow Chinese, a Malay is an easy going, uneducated simpleton living day to day and breeding kids without any thoughts for the future.

Many, many years ago, I was asked to stay back after school to re-write my very first essay. This was because the racist Chinese teacher thought that I had asked someone (presumably a clever Chinese) to write as she could not believe that a Malay whose destiny, she believed, lay in being a peon or driver to a Chinese could actually write and think critically. A few racists insults came flying my way from her mouth.

We have done everything that we can to the point of feeling utter humiliation in having to grovel before the Chinese to seek acceptance and in order to prove our worth, loyalty, etc. What do we get back? We get a kick in our mouths. Need to speak Mandarin at the workplace? Okay we will try to assimilate and learn to speak Mandarin. And of course, our people still don't get the job because they are then asked whether they can write in Chinese, etc.

The Chinese have been inflicting, over a few decades, a severe psychological damage on the collective psyche of my people. They have done so by constantly belittling and humiliating us as useless, lazy, good for nothings, etc when in truth, we simply do not share and are not interested in the rapacious, materialistic values and acquisitive culture of the Chinese.

We have decided that enough is enough. There is a point where we stop rolling over and start hitting back. We have adopted a tit-for tat response.

Start your SAP schools and we will start our madrasahs. Speak you Mandarin and we will speak our Malay. Rekindle your ties with the Malaysian Chinese and we will rekindle our ties with the Malaysian Malays. Seek support and kinship with your one billion global Chinese kin and we will seek support and kinship with our one billion global Muslim ummah. Treat our land as though you are owners and can turn it into a Mandarin speaking province of China and we will respond by reasserting our claims over our land and telling you to pack up and leave. The tit-for tat list will go on.

I have already explained why it is not in our strategic interest to vote for another Chinese party. Unless you can show me a Chinese party who will defend our strategic interest, we will be happy to consider it. You and I know that there are none and that we will be worse off if we have to deal with more Chinese parties under various clans or political groupings. You and I know that the duplicitous Chinese "activists" and political opportunists have jumped onto our bandwagon trying to show their "care" and "concern" for our community with the hope of winning our votes and nothing else. That is also the reason why you had to coach that SAP-NSP guy about what to say about the Malays when he revealed his true colours.

 

[Equalisation]

Eh Abang ...... jangan anger lah .....:o

Anyway Gong Li Fatt Chai to you ....

 

[Forvendet]

I have already explained why it is not in our strategic interest to vote for another Chinese party. Unless you can show me a Chinese party who will defend our strategic interest, we will be happy to consider it. You and I know that there are none and that we will be worse off if we have to deal with more Chinese parties under various clans or political groupings. You and I know that the duplicitous Chinese "activists" and political opportunists have jumped onto our bandwagon trying to show their "care" and "concern" for our community with the hope of winning our votes and nothing else. That is also the reason why you had to coach that SAP-NSP guy about what to say about the Malays when he revealed his true colours.

I agree with you on this paragraph. NSP is the most prominent opposition to claim to be concerrned about Malay causes and started a so-called Malay Bureau. Yet their great leader GMS says Malay candidates are necessary only because GRCs require them in order to field more Chinese candidates. True colours indeed. If he thinks that of Malays, the biggest minority, I shudder to think what he thinks of Indians and Eurasians.

He's either stupidly honest or honestly stupid as a politician. Worse off then him are those who supports him. If I live in Tampines and GMS really come, I'll vote for PAP, not spoil my vote.

 

[kukubird58]

You gotta to be in another planet altogether.

Everyone knows the whole campaign is political. It has nothing to do with nation building or nationalistic in nature. It is not a program for assimilation.

.

hahaha...my point is very simple.
My view is that the Speak Mandarin Campaign was not a success in getting Chinese Singaporeans to speak Mandarin in their daily life.
Whether the campaign is political, racist you are entitled to your opinion so as everybody else.

Since you again brought on the subject of politics, I don't understand how depriving the dialect speaking voters of staple cantonese serials and hokkien songs and stories will translate into Papee votes. I would have thought that Papee will lose votes here. Proof can also be seen in HG where Papee has to resort to speaking Teochew to try to win the ward.

In fact many of this deprived group of dialect speaking voters forms the hardcore anti-papee. Sadly their numbers are dwindling by the years because many have passed on due to old age.

 

[Ramseth]

I don't see how Speak Mandarin Campaign made any difference to the minorities. Mandarin has always been used in Chinese schools, not the dialects, unlike in HK. Not really a mother tongue for most ethnic southern Chinese here notwithstanding, it's position as a common language across all dialect groups has been longstanding well before the campaign, even well before independence. The difference in the olden days were the majority of Chinese, whatever dialects, weren't schooled. Their children who went to Chinese schools were schooled in Mandarin and conversed with each other in Mandarin. But upon going home, they conversed with their parents in their dialects.

The Speak Mandarin Campaign came along with the dismantling of all traditional Chinese schools, preserving and converting a few more prestigious ones to SAP schools. It's a matter of direction of Chinese education. I can see how some Chinese dialect die-hards are against it. But what has it got to do with Malays? No Chinese is accusing Malays of speaking Malay to each other or forcing them to speak Mandarin.