WP members visit DAP HQ and Malaysia Parliament

[Ramseth]

You can't bow when you're knocked out flat on the ground. You said others can't find the DAP toilet with a map. Apparently, they found it without a map.

 

[lockeliberal]

Dear Ramseth

Sigh choice remark that when astray should have chosen a better analogy to demonstrate the lack of intelligence on the part of Avantas and Gang :_)).


Locke

 

[Avantas]

Mr Lockeliberal aka Marcus Yap:

Oh mine, oh mine, who is bullying you ? Character assassination ???

Didn't you often say that Dr Chee is too radical and naive ?

Or are we misquoting you ?

Stop playing victim to gain sympathy lah.

Every netizen know about the infamous WP Internet brigade who goes around attacking their critics and detractors.

I would advise you to SHUT UP if you do not know who you are dealing with.

By the way, if WP wants to visit DAP Penang next time, we will kindly arrange it for you FOC. But you will have to visit Gerakan too.

LOL !!!

 

[lockeliberal]

Dear Avantas

I know my own position :_)) No need for you to help me state it. And I would also tell you kindly that I will not shut up :_)). So I guess we just have to bear with each other. Honestly I am way way past being scared or terrified of you lot. No need with regards to the DAP, I believe I can wangle an invite on my own :_)) And I do not see why I will have to visit Gerakan as well :_))



Locke

 

[Avantas]

Relax, Mr Marcus Yap, we will give your Holland Drive shop a free publicity blitz pretty soon !

Didn't your monkey friend Andrew Loh tell you the big "present" he received from us ?

I don't issue empty threats. I MEAN every word I say. If I said it, it will happen sooner or later.

LOL !!!

 

[cass888]

Relax, Mr Marcus Yap, we will give your Holland Drive shop a free publicity blitz pretty soon !

Didn't your monkey friend Andrew Loh tell you the big "present" he received from us ?

I don't issue empty threats. I MEAN every word I say. If I said it, it will happen sooner or later.

LOL !!!

You supposedly opposition guys keep arguing about who has more access to a PAP surrogate. DAP was PAP in Malaya until 1965.

*sneer*

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

I get the feeling that in the 50s and 60s the Communist threat in Singapore was real albeit indirect and in the shadows conducted by the United Front. No doubt Lee Kuan Yew being the machiavellian that he was and still is used this palpable threat to the extreme and overkill for his own political purposes by tainting almost all his enemies with the Communist "bogey" even though many were not, like you correctly said, heck I gather even Ong Eng Guan's name was put on the cold store list for the Tunku and British to sign off on (both declined) and it was a known fact that Ong was a greedy capitalist albeit a great hokkien orator and nemisis of Lee. I think the main players who were detained probably had links to the CPM or were at the least sympathisers. in fact according to Devan Nair in an interview with historian Mel Chew, Devan Nair appeared to be quite adamant that Lim Chin Siong was indeed a communist and this was after Devan left the Istana after falling out with Lee. The Plen also said as much in his incomplete memoirs.

As for the purported marxist conspiracy in 87, I just read an interesting book which had some updated comments on the same quoting Lee no less who conceded that the majority detained were probably just plain simple do gooders trying to help the poor and poor foreign workers. The ones Lee appeared to be really concerend over were the priests who he feared were drumming up a political movement along the lines seen in the Philippines which lead to Edsa I and the fall of Marcos. Thus true to form Lee went in with the sledgehammer against all and sundry to "nip this in the bud" and they were sadly numerous collateral damage as well.

One other observation on Lee if I may. I think Lee acquired the dark art of knowing how to push the buttons of his political enemies to get the intended effect that he wanted for eg. BS' walk out and boycott of the 68' election and later the defamation lawsuits.

In the 50s and 60s, unlike with MCP in Malaya, there're no armed communist insurgency in Singapore. The only "communists" are those that were branded as "communists" for political dissent. Though yes, the prevention of armed insurgency spreading into Singapore was important. The movement in Singapore was democratic socialism, not communism or marxism or armed insurgency, as with Barisan Socialis and WP (the party you've joined, and both parties have since merged). The practice of branding continued into late 80s when the brand "communist" was replaced with the brand "marxist".

I do admire Lee Kuan Yew too, but for different reasons than yours. I admire how his skills in playing up and instilling fear in the populace, leveraging on whatever powers at hand to brand and quash opponents. Not how he fought communists, for there was hardly any then.

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

I recently spent some time reading up on this issue. Read books by an retired academic called Lee who was an authority on this issue, Bloodsworth, Plen, Chin Peng, Mel Chew's interviews with Lim Chin Siong, Devan Nair, Toh, Goh, Raja, Dr Lee, et al all major players save for Lee Kuan Yew, Gerald De Cruz's book, Zaid's and others.

Now I am convinced that on balance the main players from the PAP left group were either communists or at the very least communist sympathiers, who were being used by the United Front to get a foothold in Singapore. In fact it appears that UF also considered Marshall but then found LKY to be more acceptable!

Dear Ramseth

I refer you to the memoirs of the MCP leader :_)) the name of which escapes me at the moment. If you want a read I can lend it to you. In the book he admitted to an armed struggle in the fifties and sixties in Malaya and in Singapore. He also did not deny CPM influence from a very early day in the unionist and other political parties in Singapore though he tried to downplay it in a manner which left more questions said than answered. Given the fact that the CPM was playing for keeps with armed revolution I seriously do not believe that they would have left Singapore out of the equation without some form of control over the political movement there.


Locke

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

I now believe after my recent readings that Lim Chin Siong was probably a communist or under communist influence. Both Devan Nair and the Plen apear to have confirmed as such. Chin Peng seems to suggest that Tan Wah Piow was not a communist. Vincent Cheng appeared to fall under the liberation ideology category that LKY was perturbed over after observing what happened in the Philippines. I don't think LKY claimed that Francis Seow was a communits/marxist. I think Francis fell under the category of being influenced by USA to form an oppo.

Like I've said, the prevention of the spread of armed insurgency to Singapore was important, as CPM considered Singapore to be part of Malaya and therefore under their "jurisdiction". However, it never happened. The pre-emption was a credit to Lee Kuan Yew, I've admiringly conceded, but not him alone. My point is, whoever opposed him politically thereafter till he relinquished his premiership in the early 90s, he branded them as communist or marxist. Do you really believe Lim Ching Siong, Tan Wah Piow, Chia Thye Poh, Vincent Cheng, Francis Seow et al are communits or marxists? Last twist some 10 years ago was the branding of Tang Liang Hong as "Chinese chauvism" since the "brand-names" of communist and marxist have fallen out of vogue and credibility with the collapse of the USSR and the opening up of the PRC. You admire him for that?

 

[cass888]

I now believe after my recent readings that Lim Chin Siong was probably a communist or under communist influence. Both Devan Nair and the Plen apear to have confirmed as such. Chin Peng seems to suggest that Tan Wah Piow was not a communist. Vincent Cheng appeared to fall under the liberation ideology category that LKY was perturbed over after observing what happened in the Philippines. I don't think LKY claimed that Francis Seow was a communits/marxist. I think Francis fell under the category of being influenced by USA to form an oppo.

Only the MONGREL who bit his masters' hands LOUDHAILER chee soon juan and the followers of his bankrupt SDP reCHEEme will deny that Lim Chin Siong was a communist and hold him up as a hero.

Francis Seow was no communist nor was he accused of being one.

 

[Ramseth]

You supposedly opposition guys keep arguing about who has more access to a PAP surrogate. DAP was PAP in Malaya until 1965.

*sneer*

Exactly. I was just posting an event as a topic. Just a learning experience to share, not something to boast about.

 

[Ramseth]

I now believe after my recent readings that Lim Chin Siong was probably a communist or under communist influence. Both Devan Nair and the Plen apear to have confirmed as such. Chin Peng seems to suggest that Tan Wah Piow was not a communist. Vincent Cheng appeared to fall under the liberation ideology category that LKY was perturbed over after observing what happened in the Philippines. I don't think LKY claimed that Francis Seow was a communits/marxist. I think Francis fell under the category of being influenced by USA to form an oppo.

Devan Nair was a self-declared communist, then a self-declared rehabilitatant. Francis Seow was arrested under ISA for defending the "marxist conspirators". Anyway, we're drifting off topic.

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

Sorry for going off the record again but I think Francis was detained under the ISA over the Hank Hendrickson affair.

Back to your trip, is there a simultaneous translation service in the M'sian parliament since Bahasa is mandatory? Oh and is it now a foregone conclusion that Anwar really does not have the numbers for now since if he had he should have tabled a no confidence motion?

Btw I saw a photo of the Sin Chew Daily in the WP photos. This rag appears to be in love with PAP and LKY going by their numerous glowing articles of the same republished in ST.

Devan Nair was a self-declared communist, then a self-declared rehabilitatant. Francis Seow was arrested under ISA for defending the "marxist conspirators". Anyway, we're drifting off topic.

 

[cass888]

Devan Nair was a self-declared communist, then a self-declared rehabilitatant. Francis Seow was arrested under ISA for defending the "marxist conspirators". Anyway, we're drifting off topic.

Francis Seow was the real danger, as he was not playing with blue sky theories but conspiring with real diplomats (read Langley).

 

[Avantas]

What learning "experience" to share ?

If WP members are so keen to learn from DAP, why not just stay in Singapore and learn from SDP ?

After all, DAP believes and uses the same methods as SDP namely civil activism.

WP members claim that Dr Chee breaks laws. But many DAP leaders have broken Malaysian laws too including Lim Guan Eng and Lim Kit Siang.

Did you get the irony of it all ?

Stop being hypocrites and do something useful here like participating in the Tak Boleh Tahan campaign instead of staging your grand WAYANG all the way in KL !

 

[lockeliberal]

Dear Porifirio

The Malaysian Chinese Press admire LKY for creating a system that works albeit with imperfections. The Chinese there live in a sea of corruption and political intimidation and repeated calls of Malay Supremacy. You will forgive them if they look a little be more fondly across the causeway then the resident cows on this patch of grass. Under this circumstances , LKY and some of his ideals have a real pull. Errrr and before I get slammed by my detractors, here the key word is "some."

You might have noticed those calling for a real opposition stating that the WP should learn from the DAP in namely one area "civil activism" and that the equation goes SDP is DAP is "civil activism". Suffice it to say that even for the DAP and PKR, activism serves a political goal and that political goal has been set unwaveringly on parliament and seats. My view was that all parties save the SPP because of its lack of renewal have something to learn from Malaysia. Only the most rabid and one sided analysis/boot lickers would claim that all roads lead to the SDP and Civil Activism .





Cheers

Locke

 

[Ramseth]

Sorry for going off the record again but I think Francis was detained under the ISA over the Hank Hendrickson affair.

Nope. He was arrested for defending Vincent Cheng et al., as President of Law Society and as appointed attorney. After his release, then came the Hernrikson affair. Henrikson was expelled from Singapore. Francis Seow stood for election. The rest, of course, is popular history.

Back to your trip, is there a simultaneous translation service in the M'sian parliament since Bahasa is mandatory? Oh and is it now a foregone conclusion that Anwar really does not have the numbers for now since if he had he should have tabled a no confidence motion?

Good observation and question. There's no translation. I think I could understand between a quarter to a third of what transpired, based on my pasar malam malay from growing up in Kampung Arang, not sure about my colleagues. As for Anwar's numbers, I really don't know. We really don't know. We're not going to ask, and neither is he going to tell, isn't it?

 

[cleareyes]

Dear Locke,

You will soon EAT YOUR WORDS tomorrow.

My god, what childish behavior u have displayed here.

this sort of replies are usually heard in a primary school classroom, but here i see an adult using them.

If u think ur "DAP member" friend could influence the DAP leadership and community then...be my guest and go ahead.

such naive words from an adult, how becoming.......

 

[cleareyes]

You can contact me if you need help as PKR's Tian Chua is our personal friend. He is very interested to know more about Singapore's No 1 WAYANG PARTY too.

really??????????????

wow........................................................

 

[cleareyes]

Don't play punk with us. We have connections in Malaysia as well including DAP and PKR.

oh my god...connections?????.......that sound like gangster talking

u mean to say DAP is associate with gangsters?