WP members visit DAP HQ and Malaysia Parliament

[LaMei]

Personally, I also agree that Dr. Chee and Ms. Chee are "warm, mild-mannered and pleasant...quite unlike the firebrands portrayed in various media..." I speak for myself here. Others form their own opinions. thanks - my point is, media has a powerful tool to portrayed opposition in a bad light..


This is an open international friendly exchange. Protocols have to be adhered to. Anything that comes close interfering with each other's domestic politics should and would be avoided.

For example, we could express sympathy over the ordeal suffered by Teresa whilst in detention. We couldn't possibly comment to the effect of denouncing or even criticising Malaysian ISA. And vice versa for the hosts. thanks for sharing, but that is not my point..much as I will do the same if I were there, i.e. express sympathy and support to Ms Kok, it will be a slap in my face that I was sympathetic and supportive to opposition in M'sia but not towards my fellow opposition in SG when we are suppose to be standing side by side against the ruling party.

Yes, agree. Though not all that's practicable in Malaysia are practicable in Singapore, many ideas are. No use learning without adopting into practice what's practicable, or at least adapting what's adaptable.- agree 100%

 

[BobKHSim]

of course, everyone is acting friendly and warm. but could everyone differentiate a sincere motive from a camouflaged hidden one? by the way, friendly people use the mouth to explain not to bite or sow discords.

bapok they're no way near you lah

hypocrite father basher

temple donations thief

property con

................................................

 

[guavatree]

by the way, friendly people use the mouth to explain not to bite or sow discords.

chao ah kwa do you know that:

Engaged in illicit gay activities is a crime!

Stealing temple donations is a crime!

Bashing your father is a crime!

Conning property is a crime!

LOL

 

[Ramseth]

thanks - my point is, media has a powerful tool to portrayed opposition in a bad light..

Yes. I mentioned that we witnessed a parliamentary session in which the opposition MPs completely dominated and overwhelmed the government MPs whose leaders and ministers didn't (or dared not) show up. None of this was reported in the main papers. UMNO owns The New Straits Times and MCA owns The Star, the two main English dailies in Malaysia.

thanks for sharing, but that is not my point..much as I will do the same if I were there, i.e. express sympathy and support to Ms Kok, it will be a slap in my face that I was sympathetic and supportive to opposition in M'sia but not towards my fellow opposition in SG when we are suppose to be standing side by side against the ruling party.

I wouldn't say a slap in the face. There're bound to be differences in opinions and methods, that's why we have many opposition parties instead of one. However, I don't see the various opposition leaders in Singapore slapping each other. SDP may not support certain WP methods, WP may not support certain NSP practices, NSP may not support certain SDP ideologies etc. etc. However, some overzealous supporters from every side may take it personally and exaggerate the differences.

For example, in Malaysia, differences are even more obvious and pronounced. In the PR opposition alliance, PAS wants an Islamic state in their manifesto. DAP wants a secular pluralist state and would never agree to an Islamic state. Irreconciliable, yes? But still both are part of the same alliance that inflicted such damages to BN, their common enemy.

In context of Singapore politics, SDP supporters blaming WP for disunity or WP supporters blaming SDP for disunity. This simply won't work. In the end, who's to blame? Who's to be the judge of who's fault is it?

 

[Avantas]

Aiyah, wayang in Singapore not enuff still go to Malaysia to wayang ?

What can DAP teach you ?

Better go and learn from Gerakan the art of boot-licking lah.

At least Koh Tsu Koon doesn't pretend to be opposition unlike your LOW Thia Kiang.

Why not just proclaim yourselves as the PAP's subsidiary ? Stop disgracing the good name of JBJ and Marshall pls.

You wayang pukis are WORST than PROSTITUTES !

 

[lockeliberal]

Dear La

My observations about your humble views.

1. I would say that WP is not "silent" per say but that in the position it takes it does not articulate it aggressively enough. And my own honest opinion is that the party can afford the leeway to be more aggressive in parliament.

2. I believe you of all people will realize that often enough the public and the political persona can be two entirely differing things. One can be both a firebrand and a family man as proven by both JBJ and CSJ. The service for JBJ brought home to me starkly JBJ the family man which I knew nothing of versus JBJ the politician which I admired and I left admiring both. For me at least the trip offered me a chance to meet someone I admire It was an honour to meet and shake the hands of a man I have long respected. Anwar a firebrand, islamicists, turned DPM, turned global islamic citizen, turned opposition leader, and all the while being electable despite being jailed and persecuted.

3. I believe that many members privately have sympathy for the tribulations suffered by other opposition supporters in Singapore even if they disagree with the methods and ideology. The trip up north was I believe an unofficial private trip organized by some WP members. and thus individually expressed sympathies should be viewed as that of an individual especially in the context of "political small talk" and "bridge building"

4. I was inspired by my conversation with the DAP, that some day perhaps there can be more meaningful versus superficial cooperation between the opposition parties in Singapore. Politics make for strange bedfellows and Opposition politics makes I believe for even stranger bedfellows. The differences between the WP and the SDP or SDP supporters and WP members seem minor in comparison between the differences between PAS and the DAP. Heck in the latter its god religion and an Islamic state or Islamic Law :_)))

5. If ever the SDP organizses a private trip up, I would not mind joining in :_)) At the very least food is cheap and good in KL. And as much as the WP has to learn I believe it applies equally to the SDP and perhaps the NSP but I would dare say not Chiam's party as I do not view it as an institution interested in change.



Locke

One lord to rule them all "
' One lord to find them "
" One Lord and Empress to bring them all"
' And in darkness and spite bind them

 

[leetahbar]

Glad that you could join us for the Anwar openhouse and DAP dialogue. You've contributed quite a few useful questions and comments. Too bad you couldn't join us at Parlimen. You don't know what you've missed.

you can see how fast they twist their words here:

Wayang WP go to Malaysia to learn from DAP, but attack SDP here
Avantas

 

[LaMei]

I wouldn't say a slap in the face. There're bound to be differences in opinions and methods, that's why we have many opposition parties instead of one. However, I don't see the various opposition leaders in Singapore slapping each other. SDP may not support certain WP methods, WP may not support certain NSP practices, NSP may not support certain SDP ideologies etc. etc. However, some overzealous supporters from every side may take it personally and exaggerate the differences.

For example, in Malaysia, differences are even more obvious and pronounced. In the PR opposition alliance, PAS wants an Islamic state in their manifesto. DAP wants a secular pluralist state and would never agree to an Islamic state. Irreconciliable, yes? But still both are part of the same alliance that inflicted such damages to BN, their common enemy.

In context of Singapore politics, SDP supporters blaming WP for disunity or WP supporters blaming SDP for disunity. This simply won't work. In the end, who's to blame? Who's to be the judge of who's fault is it?

Perhaps that is where our differences lies..

"I don't see the various opposition leaders in Singapore slapping each other." - they did not literally slap each other, but through comments made e.g "we need a guard dog not a mad dog", "WP has no problem finding a lawyer", "JBJ's ideal is ahead of times", "I voted THP as he is a "better candidate" (as compare to another opposition candidates), and Sylvia Lim's subsequent remarks thereafter and etc. these comments do has a effect in putting down other opposition leaders, be it directly or indirectly.

We can have differences in opinions and methods, but that should not stop the opposition from standing in solidarity against the ruling party.

having a opposition who has time and again shown their solidarity towards the ruling party and not their fellow opposition is definitely not ideal..

In M'sia, when people from the opposition camp is arrested, all other opposition comes together, lawyers will be ready to defend those arrested. This is something we have yet to see in SG..instead, when our opposition here is arrested, no other opposition will dare come forward even to make a statement that our Ruling Party has gone overboard. Not to forget, many are quick to distance themselves from those arrested / charged / bankcrupted..the few lawyers that will come forward, you know, I know, who are the handful..(despite Sylvia's remark at IBA that they don't have problem finding lawyers, the actual situation is, SG lawyers don't have the guts like our M'sia counterparts..)

This is something we all need to really learn from M'sia's opposition.

 

[leetahbar]

Dear La

My observations about your humble views.

1. I would say that WP is not "silent" per say but that in the position it takes it does not articulate it aggressively enough. And my own honest opinion is that the party can afford the leeway to be more aggressive in parliament.

2. I believe you of all people will realize that often enough the public and the political persona can be two entirely differing things. One can be both a firebrand and a family man as proven by both JBJ and CSJ. The service for JBJ brought home to me starkly JBJ the family man which I knew nothing of versus JBJ the politician which I admired and I left admiring both. For me at least it was a pleasure to meet and shake the hands of a man I have long admired. Anwar a firebrand, islamicists, turned DPM, turned global islamic citizen, turned opposition leader, and all the while being electable despite being jailed and persecuted.

3. I believe that many members privately have sympathy for the tribulations suffered by other opposition supporters in Singapore even if they disagree with the methods and ideology. The trip up north was I believe an unofficial private trip organized by some WP members and an individuals expressed sympathies should be viewed as that of an individual especially in the context of "political small talk" and "bridge building"

4. I was inspired by my conversation with the DAP, that some day perhaps there can be more meaningful versus superficial cooperation between the opposition parties in Singapore. Politics make for strange bedfellows and Opposition politics makes I believe for even stranger bedfellows. The differences between the WP and the SDP or SDP supporters and WP members seem minor in comparison between the differences between PAS and the DAP. Heck in the latter its god religion and an Islamic state or Islamic Law :_)))

5. If ever the SDP organizses a private trip up, I would not mind joining in :_)) At the very least food is cheap and good in KL. And as much as the WP has to learn I believe it applies equally to the SDP and perhaps the NSP but I dare say not Chiam's party as I do not view it as an institution interested in change.



Locke

One lord to rule them all "
' One lord to find them "
" One Lord and Empress to bring them all"
' And in darkness and spite bind them

sdp sent chiatilik to ang mo cuntry to retrieve the lost manual of the deadly skill CRAZY DRAGON 18 DEADLY BLOWS. after mastering this long lost skill, they could destroy the LEEgime or maybe they would test it out on WP or which ever is more prone to suffer to this deadly stance once executed.

maybe locke could ward off this skilful execution but beware the sneaky feat of FLIRT&DESTROY which could creep up unexpectedly from behind.

 

[Ramseth]

"I don't see the various opposition leaders in Singapore slapping each other." - they did not literally slap each other, but through comments made e.g "we need a guard dog not a mad dog", "WP has no problem finding a lawyer", "JBJ's ideal is ahead of times", "I voted THP as he is a "better candidate" (as compare to another opposition candidates), and Sylvia Lim's subsequent remarks thereafter and etc. these comments do has a effect in putting down other opposition leaders, be it directly or indirectly.

The "guard dog v. mad dog" was meant to be a punt on the word "dog", nothing personal against anyone. You've said it yourself, the power of the media. It's sad that people got played into it and worked up by it.

In M'sia, when people from the opposition camp is arrested, all other opposition comes together, lawyers will be ready to defend those arrested. This is something we have yet to see in SG..instead, when our opposition here is arrested, no other opposition will dare come forward even to make a statement that our Ruling Party has gone overboard. Not to forget, many are quick to distance themselves from those arrested / charged / bankcrupted..the few lawyers that will come forward, you know, I know, who are the handful..(despite Sylvia's remark at IBA that they don't have problem finding lawyers, the actual situation is, SG lawyers don't have the guts like our M'sia counterparts..)

Another media manipulation of conext. Sylvia was commenting on criminal justice, not political justice. In Malaysia, no politician (even on PR or PKR side) is commenting or trying to interfere with Anwar's sodomy case cause it's about criminal justice. Anwar has himself to prove his innocence and/or political motivation on the part of his prosecutors.

Teresa's case is different. Her case is one of ISA arrest. All parties who are against ISA should voice out againt it. WP is also against ISA. But are SDP members and/or supporters arrested under ISA?

 

[lockeliberal]

Dear Ramseth

Whatever personal grievances suffered because of the remarks, whatever views one has of the context of the remarks. At the end of the day is unity and compromise more important than being distinct and seperate and assorted personal grievances ? If La Mei's position remains, "I shall have nothing to do with you unless you are more like a true opposition as I see it, " then I suspect very little unity is possible. Politics is about strange bed fellows, Opposition politics about even stranger opposites. There must be compromise on both sides and for that compromise to work. The compromise must hurt both sides equallyfor the common goal of challenging the PAP. We really need an Anwar like figure that can rise past LTK CST and heck even CSJ :_)). That man could do the politically impossible. PAS in bed with DAP :_))



Locke



One lord to rule them all "
' One lord to find them "
" One Lord and Empress to bring them all"
' And in darkness and spite bind them

 

[zack123]

Dear Ramseth

Whatever personal grievances suffered because of the remarks, whatever views one has of the context of the remarks. At the end of the day is unity and compromise more important than being distinct and seperate and assorted personal grievances ? If La Mei's position remains, "I shall have nothing to do with you unless you are more like a true opposition as I see it, " then I suspect very little unity is possible. Politics is about strange bed fellows, Opposition politics about even stranger opposites. There must be compromise on both sides and for that compromise to work it must hurt both sides equally to compromise for the common goal of challenging the PAP. We really need an Anwar like figure that can rise past LTK CST and heck even CSJ :_)). That man could do the politically impossible. PAS in bed with DAP :_))

Anwar-like figure? 1st Bill he will force through Parliament is the anti-sodomy law. Is he the best benchmark that we can have. If that is so, then we are really letting ourselves stoop very low.

CSJ may be eloquent in speech but the contents put more people off.
Opposition needs to build up more credible personalities and move as 1 vehicle to sway the votes.

 

[leetahbar]

chee plays on personal vendetta and tries to exploit peasants' emotion.

for anwar, it could be also personal but he is shrewd to package the image like it's for the matland peasants...and those people fell for it.

if mathatter were to be at the helm, u can bet ur last dollar that there is no way anwar could create so much upheavals.

abdullah is a nice chap - too friendly, too soft and not firm enough to take control of the situation.

 

[cass888]

Stop promoting your comrade's bo shing li blog here lah..

DAP will be ashamed to be associated with a WAYANG OPPOSITION like you.

Do you even know DAP's origins? Without Lee Kuan Yew there would be no PAP in Malaya and therefore no DAP in 1965.

 

[leetarsah]

if mathatter were to be at the helm, u can bet ur last dollar that there is no way anwar could create so much upheavals.

bapok you lost count with your upheavals

donch worry all will be gone when you up the lorry!

 

[LaMei]

The "guard dog v. mad dog" was meant to be a punt on the word "dog", nothing personal against anyone. You've said it yourself, the power of the media. It's sad that people got played into it and worked up by it.

Another media manipulation of conext. Sylvia was commenting on criminal justice, not political justice. In Malaysia, no politician (even on PR or PKR side) is commenting or trying to interfere with Anwar's sodomy case cause it's about criminal justice. Anwar has himself to prove his innocence and/or political motivation on the part of his prosecutors.

Teresa's case is different. Her case is one of ISA arrest. All parties who are against ISA should voice out againt it. WP is also against ISA. But are SDP members and/or supporters arrested under ISA?

I am lost for words when I read your above reply..

For someone who has been more politically aware and active than me in terms of years in the opposition camp, I can only manage three words to say to your above reply, that is "oh my God!!!!!"

I guess..we really still have a long long long long way to go..

 

[LaMei]

Dear La

5. If ever the SDP organizses a private trip up, I would not mind joining in :_)) At the very least food is cheap and good in KL.

Locke

Dear Locke..

thanks for the nice reply from you :-)

about SDP organizing a private / official trip..even to JB, you know how impossible that is, given that the leaders are bankrupted and no way OA is going to allow them to travel..

the cheap and good food in KL is a luxury they will not get to enjoy.. :(

 

[lockeliberal]

Dear La

I meant an unofficial low key SDP group. No need for Dr Chee or even CSC but a group of junior interested observers. Waterboys like me and ramseth. Your point on unity is well noted but I would stick my neck out and say that if there is to be a higher degree of unity between both the WP and the SDP, then painful but necessary compromise must be made by both sides.


Locke

Dear Locke..

thanks for the nice reply from you :-)

about SDP organizing a private / official trip..even to JB, you know how impossible that is, given that the leaders are bankrupted and no way OA is going to allow them to travel..

the cheap and good food in KL is a luxury they will not get to enjoy.. :(

 

[cleareyes]

For example, we could express sympathy over the ordeal suffered by Teresa whilst in detention. We couldn't possibly comment to the effect of denouncing or even criticising Malaysian ISA. And vice versa for the hosts. thanks for sharing, but that is not my point..much as I will do the same if I were there, i.e. express sympathy and support to Ms Kok, it will be a slap in my face that I was sympathetic and supportive to opposition in M'sia but not towards my fellow opposition in SG when we are suppose to be standing side by side against the ruling party.

Teresa kok did not go out to look for trouble. In fact, she didnt seem to plan for the matter to even happen. The trouble goes to her and she didnt deserve all the problems she is getting for not doing what she has been said of doing.

ur "fellow opposition" however seem to like to create trouble to get attention.

u want sympathy and support, make sure its been done to u when u didnt start it. u started the whell rolling, dun demand support for ur own actions when it got out of what u have planned for.

 

[Ramseth]

Teresa kok did not go out to look for trouble. In fact, she didnt seem to plan for the matter to even happen. The trouble goes to her and she didnt deserve all the problems she is getting for not doing what she has been said of doing.

Well said. You should've joined us. Perhaps next trip, if you're not so busy then.