Serious [Wikipedia article] Northern and Southern China

[empathizerofeatshitndie]

Dedicated to @nightsafari and @eatshitndie:
wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_and_Southern_China


wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_and_Southern_China#Stereotypes_and_differences

 

[empathizerofeatshitndie]

sammyboy.com/posts/3192436

a lot of the Southern "dialects" are derived from the middle chinese used in Chang'An. This middle Chinese was dispaced in Mongol occupied areas with a precursor to modern Mandarin.

from wikipedia :
After the fall of the Northern Song (959–1126) and during the reign of the Jin (1115–1234) and Yuan (Mongol) dynasties in northern China, a common speech developed based on the dialects of the North China Plain around the capital, a language referred to as Old Mandarin. New genres of vernacular literature were based on this language, including verse, drama and story forms, such as the qu and sanqu poetry.[17]

so really as far as I am concerned, Mandarin is really a language of the barbarians and nothing to do with my ancestors who came from Southern China. Basically, if you want to be funny can say Mandarin speakers are traitors to their ancestors.

 

[empathizerofeatshitndie]

sammyboy.com/posts/3091962

it takes an amdk to decipher how ancient chinese sounded like. truly scholarly work, and even chinese linguists from china chimed in the comments section to praise his work.

it's in the rhyme and meter of ancient chinese poems. if you're a sexpert in ancient tang poems, you'll adjust your inflections and tones to get these poems right so they sound better to the ears. if you rely on putonghua (mandarin) to recite these poems, it's horrible and doesn't rhyme indicating that mandarin is not truly native to the song and tang era. imo, hakka sounds the closest to song and tang lingo.

 

[empathizerofeatshitndie]

sammyboy.com/posts/550029

so called hakka chinese is a linguistic window to "middle chinese" which was the official archaic chinese language spoken in sui, tang, and song dynasties. when mongols conquered china, old mandarin was forced upon many parts of china, but southern enclaves of refugees and survivors from older chinese dynasties retained much of the original xi-an and lo-yang tongues (mostly shaanxi and henan) and southern dialects. over the centuries, middle chinese disappeared and/or it merged with southern dialects and blended into obscurity. today, there are various offshoots of hakka: for example taiwanese, fujian, guangdong, guangxi, guizhou, sichuan, and hunan. this proves that hakka was a widespread language spoken in a huge geographical part of china, mainly in the south because the north and northeast were overrun by mongols and manchus respectively separated by five hundred years of devastation. the manchus, in the qing dynasty, was responsible for the propagation of mandarin, which was the main beijing dialect, to the rest of remote china including the south. beijing was the capital of the mongols under the yuan dynasty.

if you're good with linguistics in the study of consonants and vowels and tones, you'll notice that hakka is mutually unintelligible from mandarin but is closer in many pronunciations to middle chinese. also check up the rhyme books of tang. rhymes are secret codes to breaking the language mystery.

hakka is a real survivor and descendant of the true ancient chinese language and should be taught and preserved, although the hakka of today is a far cry from the language spoken by the first survivors of sui, tang and song. mandarin is a bastardized language of invaders, traitors, arse lickers, lackeys and cowards under the mongol and manchu yoke. and hakka shouldn't be called hakka or kejia. it's a fucking shame that the original people of china are called "guests". it should be called fak-yu.

 

[empathizerofeatshitndie]

sammyboy.com/posts/1542983

the secret of northern sung survivors after invasion by the jin lies in the tulou fortifications in fujian province. the sung refugees were known as "hakka" as surviving units and their families migrated to the south, took refuge in the remote areas of fujian, and built fortified townships and villages. 46 of them are preserved and survived to this day.

sammyboy.com/posts/1543972

while the north was invaded by jurchens and later mongols in the 13th century, sung survivors find refuge south in mass numbers, and the natural path was through fujian. you will find dozens of sung-era toluo fortifications in fujian today. and the refugees were called hakka, or guest-people. i would also theorize that hakka dialects are surviving tongues of the sung, which closely resembled those of the t'ang.

 

[nightsafari]

Basically draw a line. Northern half is half breed Mongolians and barbarian descendants. Southern half is pure blood Hakkas and half breed Min and Yue (Hokkien and Cantonese) and Chinese Imperial exiles.

you believe so too empathy?

 

[empathizerofeatshitndie]

sammyboy.com/posts/1543972

imo, survivors of the t'ang court might have migrated south or even to japan to escape unrest of the 5 dynasties and 10 kingdoms period, and subsequently the rise of sung. but because it was primarily a han-type dynastic transition, t'ang subjects in the north wouldn't panic and do a mass evacuation to the south. the true mass panic and evacuation happened with the northern sung, when "foreign" jin (jurchen) troops went on a rampage across the frontier and started invading china. the next panic and mass migration happened with the mongol invasion, for those who were stubborn and did not leave their redoubts.

t'ang encroachment of the south happened gradually and was part of t'ang's version of "manifest destiny" - that china had the natural and imperial ambition to spread chinese civilization westwards and southwards to new frontiers. the important t'ang province in south china with swatow (shantou today) as the capital was set up to spread t'ang imperial reach to vietnam and hainan. besides imperial push, there was also the pull factor - backward fiefdoms in the south actively sought trade and assistance from t'ang to improve themselves. there was also the pull factor from kingdoms in korea and japan as they viewed t'ang as the leading civilization to emulate.

since shantou was already a part of the t'ang sphere and a working provincial capital (the buffalo sculpture, bridge and temples are still there btw) the influence of t'ang was centered mainly in and around provincial capitals. the language spoken and passed down among survivors and descendants would be considered more t'ang than dialects and languages in the rural outskirts, such as villages and farms, where native speakers of the canto tongue still dominated. consider this.... why would teochew exist (smack) right in the middle between fujian and guangdong provinces? my theory is that teochew and hokkien are more t'ang than cantonese, as the imperial migration was southwards. moreover, all t'ang officials heading south will stay or camp in shantou, not any other guangzhou city as part of imperial protocol and show of respect for the provincial governor - to be his guest, under his hospitality and protection. it would be difficult for a local native tongue like cantonese to supplant the official tongue spoken in court while t'ang was still pre-eminent and in great power.

sammyboy.com/posts/1544104

correction. instead of shantou, it should be chaozhou (潮州). shantou was just a fishing village when chaozhou was established as the nanhai commandery during the qin dynasty. subsequently it was known as haiyang as part of the dongguan commandery under the han. the sui renamed it yi'an, and the t'ang inherited it from the sui. it became a prefecture under sui. and it was never a province as i have pointed out, but the 州 designation gave it almost the same importance as a province. sorry for the mistake.

 

[Byebye Penis]

There is another humble name for the chinese people who began life along the yellow river - Huaxia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huaxia

 

[zhihau]

合久必分，分久必合。

 

[syed putra]

Basically draw a line. Northern half is half breed Mongolians and barbarian descendants. Southern half is pure blood Hakkas and half breed Min and Yue (Hokkien and Cantonese) and Chinese Imperial exiles

They all look the same to me.

 

[nightsafari]

They all look the same to me.

by that same measure, ah neh look the same as sardarji issit?

wow, I thought you more enlightened than that...

 

[Hypocrite-The]

Wat about difference between cantoland n fuckeinland?

 

[syed putra]

Wat about difference between cantoland n fuckeinland?

You can't differentiate if in KL. They speak both hokkien and cantonese.

 

[empathizerofeatshitndie]

Basically draw a line. Northern half is half breed Mongolians and barbarian descendants. Southern half is pure blood Hakkas and half breed Min and Yue (Hokkien and Cantonese) and Chinese Imperial exiles.

you believe so too empathy?

Dear @nightsafari, many belated thanks for gracing another humble thread of mine and for liking five of my posts in this thread a few days ago (on Monday morning)!

I'm not sure about:
wikipedia.org/wiki/Yue_Chinese
but I believe that both:
wikipedia.org/wiki/Hakka_Chinese
and:
wikipedia.org/wiki/Min_Chinese
are "distant cousins" that ultimately descend from:
wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Chinese
which was the:
wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_language
during the:
wikipedia.org/wiki/Shang_dynasty
wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhou_dynasty
wikipedia.org/wiki/Qin_dynasty
wikipedia.org/wiki/Han_dynasty
and this "Old Chinese" language seems to have been first spoken in what is now:
wikipedia.org/wiki/Henan
a PRC province whose northern part is several hundred kilometres south of:
wikipedia.org/wiki/Beijing
where:
wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandarin_Chinese
was first spoken; and Mandarin probably also descends from "Old Chinese", but I suspect that the:
wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongolian_language
and/or the:
wikipedia.org/wiki/Manchu_language
caused Mandarin to become more different from "Old Chinese".

 

[Sideswipe]

there is a Chinese saying - to defend the Yangtze, must first defend the Huai. historically many great battles between the north and south military forces were decided in the Huai river proximity, it shaped the history of China from the beginning to now. Western Chu Xiang Yu met his demise there. the crucial big battle between the KMT and CCP - the Huaihai campaign 1948 took place there.

 

[empathizerofeatshitndie]

Dear @tanahcow, many belated thanks for liking seven of my posts in this thread the day before yesterday (on Friday morning)!

 

[empathizerofeatshitndie]

Dedicated to @nightsafari and @eatshitndie:
wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_and_Southern_China


wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_and_Southern_China#Stereotypes_and_differences

Many belated thanks, in chronological order, to:
@nightsafari
@jw5
@tanahcow
for liking the above post of mine!

 

[jw5]

Many belated thanks, in chronological order, to:
@nightsafari
@jw5
@tanahcow
for liking the above post of mine!

You are most welcome.

 

[empathizerofeatshitndie]

Dear @eatshitndie-sama, many belated thanks to you too for liking four of my posts in this thread last week!

 

[empathizerofeatshitndie]

You are most welcome.

Dear @jw5, many belated thanks to you too for bumping up my thread the day before yesterday!