Chitchat Why Muslims have failed Islam and made it the subject of hate and ridicule.

[whoami]

How do I make sense of what you said here? No compulsion but fear a father who is strict in punishment. One this 1 point alone, I cannot follow already.

Ok lah. To be precise, i chose to believe in the Creator. So i have to try my best to belief in wat he commanded me to do. I know this isnt wat u are looking for. U want to be free .... to chose wat u like or dislike. Tats where we differ.

I don't think you understand my point. The hygiene is good. But it is not the practice. It is the pride. If you care to go back to previous post, I explain why this ends up in prideful and prejudiced Muslims. Not bad behaviour Muslims. Since when I say bad behaviour?

For me washing hands, bathing in the morning....is all about good hygiene. Its good for my health. Maybe i put it wrongly. So i dont have to be proud and start criticising others who dont practise such. Its only now...with the covid 19, then we appreciate practising good hygiene. And why not since practise make perfect.

eating glass is not something to experiement with on your own. I am happy to not prove this to myself.

Like tat how to prove to u the existence of invisible force? U claimed not to believe in jinn, no? Ok....i will try to speak to Pak Man to exempt u from taking glasses. Just the dancing alone would do. U cant lie to urself if u see urself dancing simultaneously with the music. U may ask urself since when u know dancing kuda kepang. So good enough to prove the existence of Jinn? I mean how else can i convince u? U need to experiment it urself. Right?

There are people who will obey a command to kill just because someone says so. No reason. That is what's trained in the military. Humans do this all the time. If whether government or religious leaders do it makes no difference to me. Your own complaint about US going to the ME. Do you really think all these people want to leave their home and family because they want to kill Muslims? No. I find it that humans kill for no reason very easily.

Soldiers are trained to kill in battle ground. Tats ur profession. Unless u join the orthodox jews or JW. They wont carry arms. Sure go detention. But in Islam, we are specifically told to only retaliate on self defence.

Like minded people influence each other. All the people you mentioned including atheists can be religious too. But their religion is whatever they choose. And what does terrorism have to do with our discussion?

I just happened to mentioned terrorism. Not to u but specifically so sm people here who always refer islam as a terrorist religion. U know who they are.

I don't follow MSM and I don't say that Muslims have bad behaviour and I don't reject the creator. am I not clear in what I write? And since when did mention terrorism?

Let me try again. I say only two things hopefully it becomes clearer.

1) Compulsion and fear are not how I choose to lead my life. They are also not elements of what I choose follow. Nor do I expect people around me to be compelled and fearful. If I know that someone is following me out of fear, I will be very sad. You have said that you fear a strict father. I acknowledge, understand and agree with you, but I won't follow you in fearing a strict father. I will walk away from this person.

2) Following a religion (in your case Islam) is a road to pride and prejudice. For you to be religious pride and prejudice are necessary.

those are my points. no terror, no bad behaviour, nothing specific to Islam.

I suppose everyone have their pride and prejudice. U also admitted u are one. Tats why u dont see the necessity to refer the Quran. U cant equate the Creator with a human. God is perfect. Not human. Human is just HIS creation. I guess u wont accept it. So now only way to prove the existence of God is for u to experiment it urself. Try the kuda kepang performance. If i do it myself u would say i BS. No such thing as Jinn.

 

[whoami]

Human knowledge already surpassed what the Quran revealed. You are going backwards if you look to the Quran for scientific data or knowledge.

The Quran was revealed 1400 years ago. U mean scientists already discovered 1400 years before the Quran mentioned those findings? Plse show proof. Show me link when scientist discover tis and tat...which year...BC or AD?

 

[whoami]

Descendants yes. The leaders. Pol pot. Ieng Sary. And backed by CCP. Not just in Cambodia. The entire South East Asia communist party was backed by CCP.

Yes. Tat include CPM. Bloody DAP actually brought damn chin peng ashes to Msia to be buried. An insults to those thousand of Msians who fought and died for Malaya.

 

[JohnTan]

No. The hui do not create problems. It's the han Chinese that kills people, ,mostly their own, by the tens of millions. And millions in South East Asia too killed by descendants of han Chinese. They wanted south east asian countries to be communist like their motherland. Just Cambodia alone more than a million were killed.

Vast majority of chinks are not interested in politics or mixing religion with politics. It's the commies who want others to be commies. Chinkland today isn't as screwed up with India today because islam didn't get a chance to impact chinkland the same way it did to india.

It's a very sad and funny story to see a moslem indian from pakistan or even india filled with so much hatred towards hindu indians. His own ancestors were once upon a time hindus, and the moslem likely only became a moslem because of religious conquest by the mughals or delhi sultanate, or by love jihad.

 

[syed putra]

Vast majority of chinks are not interested in politics or mixing religion with politics. It's the commies who want others to be commies. Chinkland today isn't as screwed up with India today because islam didn't get a chance to impact chinkland the same way it did to india.

It's a very sad and funny story to see a moslem indian from pakistan or even india filled with so much hatred towards hindu indians. His own ancestors were once upon a time hindus, and the moslem likely only became a moslem because of religious conquest by the mughals or delhi sultanate, or by love jihad.

Before the moghul invasion i was told there was a ealier invasion by aryans from persia who defeated and dravidians and sent them scurrying south. That was how the caste system originated.

 

[JohnTan]

Before the moghul invasion i was told there was a ealier invasion by aryans from persia who defeated and dravidians and sent them scurrying south. That was how the caste system originated.

Before the mughal invasion, there were other invades from persia, turkic tribes or afghans who set up the moslem delhi sultanate. They slaughtered millions of hindus in north india and converted millions more to islam by force. Both the mughal and delhi sultantate had similar boundaries at the height of their power in india.

 

[syed putra]

Before the mughal invasion, there were other invades from persia, turkic tribes or afghans who set up the moslem delhi sultanate. They slaughtered millions of hindus in north india and converted millions more to islam by force. Both the mughal and delhi sultantate had similar boundaries at the height of their power in india.

This was way before that. By Cyrus the great and darius. In 500 bc.

Achaemenid army
See also: Achaemenid army

Greek Ionian (Yavanas), Scythian (Sakas) and Persian (Parasikas) soldiers of the Achaemenid army, as described on Achaemenid royal tombs from circa 500 to 338 BCE.
The Achaemenid army was not uniquely Persian. Rather it was composed of many different ethnicities that were part of the vast Achaemenid Empire. The army included Bactrians, Sakas (Scythians), Parthians, Sogdians.[25] Herodotus gives a full list of the ethnicities of the Achaemenid army, in which are included Ionians (Greeks), and even Ethiopians.[26][25] These ethnicities are likely to have been included in the Achaemenid army which invaded India.[25]

The Persians may have later participated, together with Sakas and Greeks, in the campaigns of Chandragupta Maurya to gain the throne of Magadha circa 320 BCE. The Mudrarakshasa states that after Alexander's death, an alliance of "Shaka-Yavana-Kamboja-Parasika-Bahlika" was used by Chandragupta Maurya in his campaign to take the throne in Magadha and found the Mauryan Empire.[27][28][29] The Sakas were the Scythians, the Yavanas were the Greeks, and the Parasikas were the Persians.[28][30]David Brainard Spooner observed of Chandragupta Maurya that "it was with largely the Persian army that he won the throne of India

 

[nightsafari]

This was way before that. By Cyrus the great and darius. In 500 bc.

Achaemenid army
See also: Achaemenid army

Greek Ionian (Yavanas), Scythian (Sakas) and Persian (Parasikas) soldiers of the Achaemenid army, as described on Achaemenid royal tombs from circa 500 to 338 BCE.
The Achaemenid army was not uniquely Persian. Rather it was composed of many different ethnicities that were part of the vast Achaemenid Empire. The army included Bactrians, Sakas (Scythians), Parthians, Sogdians.[25] Herodotus gives a full list of the ethnicities of the Achaemenid army, in which are included Ionians (Greeks), and even Ethiopians.[26][25] These ethnicities are likely to have been included in the Achaemenid army which invaded India.[25]

The Persians may have later participated, together with Sakas and Greeks, in the campaigns of Chandragupta Maurya to gain the throne of Magadha circa 320 BCE. The Mudrarakshasa states that after Alexander's death, an alliance of "Shaka-Yavana-Kamboja-Parasika-Bahlika" was used by Chandragupta Maurya in his campaign to take the throne in Magadha and found the Mauryan Empire.[27][28][29] The Sakas were the Scythians, the Yavanas were the Greeks, and the Parasikas were the Persians.[28][30]David Brainard Spooner observed of Chandragupta Maurya that "it was with largely the Persian army that he won the throne of India

Aryan came from a sanskrit word which suggests the caste system was a totem pole topped by the invaders. The original Aryans did not include Greeks in their definition.

 

[nightsafari]

I suppose everyone have their pride and prejudice. U also admitted u are one.

did I say that? I said every religion needs pride and prejudice to exist. I do not follow religion(s) because of this. I prefer to be good without resorting to pride or prejudice.

Tats why u dont see the necessity to refer the Quran. U cant equate the Creator with a human. God is perfect. Not human. Human is just HIS creation. I guess u wont accept it. So now only way to prove the existence of God is for u to experiment it urself. Try the kuda kepang performance. If i do it myself u would say i BS. No such thing as Jinn.

If I so something self-harmful to prove something I believe is unnecessary, what's the point? I'm not eating glass to satisfy something I don't believe in. Might as well ask all the religious people to shoot themselves in the head to prove existence.

you know. let me ask you this. what is so wrong with trying to simply live a good life without following anyone? Must follow or will burn in hell?

 

[nightsafari]

Ok lah. To be precise, i chose to believe in the Creator. So i have to try my best to belief in wat he commanded me to do. I know this isnt wat u are looking for. U want to be free .... to chose wat u like or dislike. Tats where we differ.

and I won't abuse you for your choice. In fact, I sincerely wish you happiness and a good life with your choice. and I'm different. I'm ok with that.

For me washing hands, bathing in the morning....is all about good hygiene. Its good for my health. Maybe i put it wrongly. So i dont have to be proud and start criticising others who dont practise such. Its only now...with the covid 19, then we appreciate practising good hygiene. And why not since practise make perfect.

This is where I think you don't get my point. 4 steps I outline previously. It starts off with a good practice. Then religious teaching imparts right and wrong. First thing I hear from many Muslims. We are hygienic. Those non-Muslim people do not follow such good practices. They are unclean. Majority will end up with pride and prejudice and will think lowly of non-Muslims for not following. Maybe you don't think that way, but I find it unlikely. At some point, you will think lowly of some non-Muslim because they did not follow some teaching. Religions if they teach righteousness will end up that way almost always. Lama lama, they will find a reason to hate non-Muslims. Call them binatang. You disagree?

Why do you think Christians are so busybody in Middle East so much? For the exact same reason. This thought process is how they end up there time and time again. All Abrahamic religions share this quality. About how they are the "right" ones. Do you think all those invasions are because they are trying to be good or trying to be right. Why do you think Jews created Israel? Because their scripture tells them that it is right. Who cares about what non-Jews believe, they are not right.

That's my point and will explain why there is so much religious conflict.

 

[JohnTan]

At some point, you will think lowly of some non-Muslim because they did not follow some teaching. Religions if they teach righteousness will end up that way almost always.

I think lowly of people of all religions who follow religious rituals like forbidden foods, washing, dressing. They are doing all these shit because they think it makes them more holy than others before God. They are trying to earn their own righteousness and justify themselves to God that they have every right to enter Heaven because they did all these things.

It smacks of blatant self-righteousness, regardless of which religion.

Even as a grassroots leader who has done lots of charitable works, I can tell you that my place in Heaven is entirely by God's grace, and my charitable works or any religious routine that I follow has nothing to do with entry into paradise.

 

[syed putra]

I think lowly of people of all religions who follow religious rituals like forbidden foods, washing, dressing. They are doing all these shit because they think it makes them more holy than others before God. They are trying to earn their own righteousness and justify themselves to God that they have every right to enter Heaven because they did all these things.

It smacks of blatant self-righteousness, regardless of which religion.

Even as a grassroots leader who has done lots of charitable works, I can tell you that my place in Heaven is entirely by God's grace, and my charitable works or any religious routine that I follow has nothing to do with entry into paradise.

"You are judged by your deeds alone" is totally ignored by Muslims. It is repeated multiple times 8n the Quran.
Current Muslims are obsessed with rituals. They seems to think that the more rituals you do, the more merit points you will get which is contradictory to the Quran.

 

[JohnTan]

"You are judged by your deeds alone" is totally ignored by Muslims. It is repeated multiple times 8n the Quran.

In essence, you earn your own salvation. And you tell God that you have every right to enter Heaven because you worked hard to get there.

Current Muslims are obsessed with rituals. They seems to think that the more rituals you do, the more merit points you will get which is contradictory to the Quran.

That is part of the 'you are judged by your deeds alone'. Some deeds are more important than others, especially the deed of 'not eating pork'.

 

[tanwahtiu]

Hey Muslim bro. Get yr history time frame correctly.

Islam only begin in 425 AD. Every story has a begining with an ending.... then new chapters are written to continue till today.

1. Do u agree without Mohammed there will be no Islam and Allah...

2. How in the Quran was Jesus mentioned in the book....

3. Bible scholars hv studied and reseached the Jesus, the New Testament and Old Testament, for facts...

4. Come on.... why u want to lie when the obvious is told to you about 425AD the begining of Islam...

5. Some Arabs hv found James tribe in Minor Asia, that is ME today.. and told Mohammed of this Ebinonite tribe, James descendant, about Jesus the Son of God.

Stick to yr Quran book and be honest to yr Allah God...

The Quran was revealed 1400 years ago. U mean scientists already discovered 1400 years before the Quran mentioned those findings? Plse show proof. Show me link when scientist discover tis and tat...which year...BC or AD?

 

[syed putra]

Aryan came from a sanskrit word which suggests the caste system was a totem pole topped by the invaders. The original Aryans did not include Greeks in their definition.

The greeks probably came with Alexander.
But before that, greeks were mercenaries for Persians too.

 

[whoami]

did I say that? I said every religion needs pride and prejudice to exist. I do not follow religion(s) because of this. I prefer to be good without resorting to pride or prejudice.

I think u did mention why u didnt read the quran due to pride and prejudice, no? Or maybe i got mix up.

If I so something self-harmful to prove something I believe is unnecessary, what's the point? I'm not eating glass to satisfy something I don't believe in. Might as well ask all the religious people to shoot themselves in the head to prove existence.

Dont get me wrong. Eating of glasses is part of the kudang kepang performance. So far i can only think of this example to prove to u the existence of the unseen. U nid not have to eat glasses. Just simply dance the javanese kuda kepang. Tat will be enough to prove existence of jinn, no? Like i mentioned no point if i perform it cos u would say its pure BS, no? We are discussing subject of Allah's creation i.e. Jinn, no?

you know. let me ask you this. what is so wrong with trying to simply live a good life without following anyone? Must follow or will burn in hell?

There will come a time u will ask urself wats life all about? Even born Muslim also went astray. So tere is a purpose why we are born into this world. I had mentioned many times No 1 enemy is Shaytan. He had already led billion of mankind astray. Dont take it lightly. I believe the existence of Jinn cos i ever witness it. Whole chapter of Jinn being mentioned in the scripture. It was told 124000 prophets/messengers were sent to the world since Adam was created. Warning been given to mankind by respective Messengers during those era. Tis is a temporary world. U got nothing to lose by believing in God.

Btw just add info. Those who passed away may be punished in the grave for sins as well. Burn in hell r for unforgiven sins. Allah is One. No son No mum. Allah forbid.

 

[syed putra]

There will come a time u will ask urself wats life all about? Even born Muslim also went astray. So tere is a purpose why we are born into this world. I had mentioned many times No 1 enemy is Shaytan. He had already led billion of mankind astray. Dont take it lightly. I believe the existence of Jinn cos i ever witness it. Whole chapter of Jinn being mentioned in the scripture. It was told 124000 prophets/messengers were sent to the world since Adam was created. Warning been given to mankind by respective Messengers during those era. Tis is a temporary world. U got nothing to lose by believing in God.

The evil guys turned Islam into a religion.make Muslims do rituals that were never required. Do really murderous things wrt wars and murderous rampage against Christians, fellow Muslims considered deviant.

 

[whoami]

and I won't abuse you for your choice. In fact, I sincerely wish you happiness and a good life with your choice. and I'm different. I'm ok with that.

This is where I think you don't get my point. 4 steps I outline previously. It starts off with a good practice. Then religious teaching imparts right and wrong. First thing I hear from many Muslims. We are hygienic. Those non-Muslim people do not follow such good practices. They are unclean. Majority will end up with pride and prejudice and will think lowly of non-Muslims for not following. Maybe you don't think that way, but I find it unlikely. At some point, you will think lowly of some non-Muslim because they did not follow some teaching. Religions if they teach righteousness will end up that way almost always. Lama lama, they will find a reason to hate non-Muslims. Call them binatang. You disagree?

When people in anger, they will call names, no? Muslims also at the receiving end, no? I seen some races calling each other babi. But the scripture did not command the believers to condemn non believers, no?

Why do you think Christians are so busybody in Middle East so much? For the exact same reason. This thought process is how they end up there time and time again. All Abrahamic religions share this quality. About how they are the "right" ones. Do you think all those invasions are because they are trying to be good or trying to be right. Why do you think Jews created Israel? Because their scripture tells them that it is right. Who cares about what non-Jews believe, they are not right.

Most of the time are due to political reasons. See...those orthodox Jews do not agree with the zionist jew. They regard state of israel as illegitimate.

That's my point and will explain why there is so much religious conflict.

Most of the religious conflict were due to political agenda.

 

[whoami]

The evil guys turned Islam into a religion.make Muslims do rituals that were never required. Do really murderous things wrt wars and murderous rampage against Christians, fellow Muslims considered deviant.

Nah.....they didnt even ask u to worship them.

 

[ilovechinesegal]

The quran shld mix with Confucius teaching and will become peaceful! I want to go china and get hui gals and turn them into han!