Chitchat Why Muslims have failed Islam and made it the subject of hate and ridicule.

[whoami]

Many Muslims got it wrong wrt bow and prostrate instead of submit with humility.
You submit with humility to God by doing just and righteous deeds.
Because it's not a religion, so there is no rituals.
No clerics. Nor any head of religion.
Its just between you and God alone.
And you will be judged by your deeds alone and not by the number of rituals you perform.
Most current Muslims got this faith thing all wrong.
Its is a complete system to living the way of life of good deeds. That is something the organised religion of Islam has abandoned.

Human are created to worship God alone. No partners to HIM. All mentioned in the Quran.

Deh, u need to show proof things not mentioned in the Quran but done by Muslims, to justify your opinion. Subjects of deen aka Islam, Prophet name, etc etc, all already explained to u. Wats the point bringing it up again and again?

 

[nightsafari]

One can be anti Islam minus those insults on the Quran/Prophet. I got no problem with tat. We can still discuss. But the moment u start to tambak with insults and threw in vulgarities...i simply ignore discussing with him. Tats not a friendly discussion. Yes..nobody is perfect. I believe most religion teaches us to respect and behave decently. Its their attitude/behaviour.

thank you for discussing. I am grateful to have a discussion too without insults and vulgarities. It's a nice change, because 99% of the time, moment you disagree with someone, it's all one big battle. I am no longer willing to fight people. Too much fighting in my youth... That's why I refuse to discuss with some people here. They have no peace and do not bring peace upon us during discussions. I find hate and anger very bitter. can taste it. Don't wish to be part of it.

Now that we have that settle above, I will state my counterpoint. You mention most religions teach us respect and behave decently. I'm not sure about that. I believe that most religions most of the time have stories inside that can teach us to respect and behave decently. Sometimes, they also have stories that do not. In most religious works I have come across at some point, objectionable behaviour is present. Usually it has to do with mistreatment of an "enemy group". Don't think of it as enemy of the field with parang, but enemy of ideology. A lot of the demons names in Abrahamic religions come from the names of gods of competing religions in the Middle East at that time. It's just that the Jews were more successful than the others. Can research if you can be bothered. Djinn is also a good example. Before Islam came to Arabia, Djinn were worshipped as guardian spirits of Arab tribes who if displeased were to be feared. After Islam many years later, they became incorporated in Islamic belief as hantu that can possess you. Another good example is that people who read bible usually have a poor opinion of Egyptians. They deserve to have every 1st born male taken away from them by the angel of death. If you look hard enough, every religion has stuff like this and I cannot agree with promoting hate.

Religion dont control every part of your life. But of course when come to the creator, u need to worship HIM. For Islam we are created to worship him. Tats wat mentioned in the Quran. Non negotiable. Commandment as to Do and Donts are good for mankind. One can be intelligent, smart but not necessarily a good person. Cos of greed and power. So the scripture there to constantly remind us. Praying 5 times a day...constantly reminded us dont deviate from the truth. Satan very smart i tell u. U dont see him but he see u. Tats why people will say dont believe in fairy tales. If satan come in his true form, i bet most of us will start to worship God.

Sorry to disagree with you here. First of all, Abe religions do control most every part of your life. What does a human do? Eat, sleep, procreate, work and worship. In Islam, what you eat is controlled. How you procreate and work is controlled. Worship is definitely non-negotiable as you have mentioned. Even sleep is controlled! I guess a better question is which part of your life is NOT controlled by religion.

Abrahamic (will be shortened to Abe) creation stories are verifiably false. We were not made in 1 week. Timescale is measured not in millennia which is how Abe religions measure our creation, but in billions (millions of millennia) of years. Evolution is well-documented and in the millions of years. You are 96% chimpanzee or a chimpanzee is 96% human whichever way you look at it. This is already one big problem with Abe religions in terms of facts. Another problem is mankind creation through Adam and Hawwa. I honestly like the Muslim version better than the Christian version, but in the end, what is the purpose of creating mankind for? To create an entire race of slaves? What god feel so small ah? Must non-negotiable pray xx times a day otherwise he will send you to hell [al-Muddaththir 74:42-43]? I find this quite perverse. Create something that MUST worship you otherwise they will be punished for eternity. As for me, if I do not believe in Abe religion, means I don't believe in satan/syaitan as well. Plus I've never met anyone like that in my whole life. Just good or bad people.

Correct. Cells. Also mentioned in the Quran. So like u mentioned...where did the cells come from? Not just cells....galaxy, planets, etc, etc. How were they created? Thin air?

Maybe you should ask me this question : what is the universe created from. Thin air? No one knows well. But it was created largely from nothingness. Once you have the building blocks (elements) of this universe. Given enough time and the right conditions, Life is created. We are 1 planet in a mind-boggling sea of planets. Life will arise purely out of probability.

Perhaps the bigger question between our points of view still lies unanswered. You mention in a previous post that pride and prejudice are not part of religion. I say that it is the heart of religion. Without pride and prejudice and a few other reasons, religions will simply not exist. Islam if anything is one of the prouder religions.

 

[syed putra]

It's just that the Jews were more successful than the others. Can research if you can be bothered

At one time they were slaves to others. To the Egyptians, Babylonians and romans.

 

[nightsafari]

At one time they were slaves to others. To the Egyptians, Babylonians and romans.

yes thank you for pointing that out. I am aware of it. But were they labourer slaves or military mercenaries?

 

[syed putra]

Human are created to worship God alone. No partners to HIM. All mentioned in the Quran.

Deh, u need to show proof things not mentioned in the Quran but done by Muslims, to justify your opinion. Subjects of deen aka Islam, Prophet name, etc etc, all already explained to u. Wats the point bringing it up again and again?

Humans are not created to worship God.
We are asked to humbly submit to God by doing good deeds.

 

[syed putra]

yes thank you for pointing that out. I am aware of it. But were they labourer slaves or military mercenaries?

Slaves. They joined the arabs as allies in the conquest of roman territories just to get their promised land back.land that was ravaged by Roman and later, Christian rule.
The jews can easily manipulate the Arabs into doing it by introducing them to a religion that hold them in high regards.

 

[nightsafari]

Slaves. They joined the arabs as allies in the conquest of roman territories just to get their promised land back.land that was ravaged by Roman and later, Christian rule.
The jews can easily manipulate the Arabs into doing it by introducing them to a religion that hold them in high regards.

so if I read that right, slaves first then became auxiliary land grabbers? Then they introduced their religion to the Arabs?

 

[syed putra]

so if I read that right, slaves first then became auxiliary land grabbers? Then they introduced their religion to the Arabs?

It looks like it as tge arab religion is based on jewish myth. Based on jewish prophet's.and somehow, they conned the Arabs by saying both the Jews and Arabs arab are descendants of Abraham. Jews from one mother, Arabs from another mum ( slave mum).
Though there were conflicts with jews during prophet mohamads time, The current conflict with Jews only started with the seizure of Palestinian land.in between, it was fine and dandy.

 

[ilovechinesegal]

Quran need to mix with Confucius and it would be more peaceful and make the world better!

 

[whoami]

thank you for discussing. I am grateful to have a discussion too without insults and vulgarities. It's a nice change, because 99% of the time, moment you disagree with someone, it's all one big battle. I am no longer willing to fight people. Too much fighting in my youth... That's why I refuse to discuss with some people here. They have no peace and do not bring peace upon us during discussions. I find hate and anger very bitter. can taste it. Don't wish to be part of it.

Now that we have that settle above, I will state my counterpoint. You mention most religions teach us respect and behave decently. I'm not sure about that. I believe that most religions most of the time have stories inside that can teach us to respect and behave decently. Sometimes, they also have stories that do not. In most religious works I have come across at some point, objectionable behaviour is present. Usually it has to do with mistreatment of an "enemy group". Don't think of it as enemy of the field with parang, but enemy of ideology. A lot of the demons names in Abrahamic religions come from the names of gods of competing religions in the Middle East at that time. It's just that the Jews were more successful than the others. Can research if you can be bothered. Djinn is also a good example. Before Islam came to Arabia, Djinn were worshipped as guardian spirits of Arab tribes who if displeased were to be feared. After Islam many years later, they became incorporated in Islamic belief as hantu that can possess you. Another good example is that people who read bible usually have a poor opinion of Egyptians. They deserve to have every 1st born male taken away from them by the angel of death. If you look hard enough, every religion has stuff like this and I cannot agree with promoting hate.


Sorry to disagree with you here. First of all, Abe religions do control most every part of your life. What does a human do? Eat, sleep, procreate, work and worship. In Islam, what you eat is controlled. How you procreate and work is controlled. Worship is definitely non-negotiable as you have mentioned. Even sleep is controlled! I guess a better question is which part of your life is NOT controlled by religion.

Abrahamic (will be shortened to Abe) creation stories are verifiably false. We were not made in 1 week. Timescale is measured not in millennia which is how Abe religions measure our creation, but in billions (millions of millennia) of years. Evolution is well-documented and in the millions of years. You are 96% chimpanzee or a chimpanzee is 96% human whichever way you look at it. This is already one big problem with Abe religions in terms of facts. Another problem is mankind creation through Adam and Hawwa. I honestly like the Muslim version better than the Christian version, but in the end, what is the purpose of creating mankind for? To create an entire race of slaves? What god feel so small ah? Must non-negotiable pray xx times a day otherwise he will send you to hell [al-Muddaththir 74:42-43]? I find this quite perverse. Create something that MUST worship you otherwise they will be punished for eternity. As for me, if I do not believe in Abe religion, means I don't believe in satan/syaitan as well. Plus I've never met anyone like that in my whole life. Just good or bad people.


Maybe you should ask me this question : what is the universe created from. Thin air? No one knows well. But it was created largely from nothingness. Once you have the building blocks (elements) of this universe. Given enough time and the right conditions, Life is created. We are 1 planet in a mind-boggling sea of planets. Life will arise purely out of probability.

Perhaps the bigger question between our points of view still lies unanswered. You mention in a previous post that pride and prejudice are not part of religion. I say that it is the heart of religion. Without pride and prejudice and a few other reasons, religions will simply not exist. Islam if anything is one of the prouder religions.

Tat should be the way. We can tcss, discuss tampa maki Tuhan, Rasool, Kitab etc. End of the day is not about winning or losing. Just gain some knowledge cukup leow.

We were told in the Quran teres no compulsion in religion. In wat way we mistreat other beliefs? But i must make clear during war time, certain action is permissable. I mean if u dont kill ur enemy u will be eliminated instead. As for demons, jinns, long before the advent of Islam, they already existed. Praying and worshipping idols as their gods (Pagans) was common. 360 idols in the Kaaba. As for the biblical version, sorry, i am unable to answer u. U can check with the xtians. Watever verses in the bible coincide with the Quran, we would accept it as words of Allah azzawajal.

Lets talk about hygiene. Tons of them mentioned in the Quran and Hadith. Its good for mankind. Dont u tink so? But not everyone follows, no? Washing hands? Muslims doing tat 5 times a day. It could have been 50 times a day had not the Prophet appeal it to be reduced to 5 times. Tat also not all Muslims practise. Charity..giving zakat, alms? Yes...its compulsory 2.5% on harta, Fitrah and sedakah to all mankind. Its good dont u tink so? If teres no such command, all the muslims will be hoarding their money and whos going to help the poor? I can name u tons and tons of hukum meted out by the Creator which the end results are good for mankind...be it physically or spiritually. U mentioned sleep being controlled? How is it?

Why are we created? Following are the verses:

“And We created not the heavens and the earth, and all that is between them, for mere play.

We created them not except with truth (i.e. to examine and test those who are obedient and those who are disobedient and then reward the obedient ones and punish the disobedient ones), but most of them know not” [al-Dukhaan 44:38]

To me i believe in God, his Book and the Prophets. Of course we can start asking ourselves why God commanded us to do this and tat. Does it make sense...so on and so forth. Watever God commanded us to do certain thing, teres reasons behind it. HE already made it very clear to u and I tat we will be tested in this world. HE even made clear HE dont need us but we need HIM. We are given senses. Use it wisely. As for shaytan or Jinn.....i love to quote the example of kudang kepang. U ever watch it especially during Malay wedding ceremony. Ever see how the performers in a trance, eating glasses and grasses? Of course skeptics would say ni semua bedek. I suppose u need to be possessed then u would believe. I can bring u to witness one? U can test it urself? I will video tape u as evidence. After the whole "play" is over, u can watch it urself and i hope u can ask me how come u are eating glasses and grasses without getting hurt or cuts in ur mouth. PM me if u dare take the challenge. I dont always meet people from this forum. Red carpet for u. MUIS banned it. I may have to take u to Msia or Indon.



Aaaahhh.....created from nothingness? U believe in tat? But u dont believe the Creator? Latter told u black and white in the scripture but u rejected it whereas the former didnt show u any proof yet u believe?

Yes. I am proud to be a Muslim. I am sure xtians also proud to believe in xtianity though latter not found in the bible. Just like u also proud in rejecting the existence of Allah azzawajal, no? So its the norm for believers to be proud of their beliefs.

 

[whoami]

Humans are not created to worship God.
We are asked to humbly submit to God by doing good deeds.

First chapter of the Holy Quran.

All praise is to God, Lord of all the worlds

Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Master of the Day of Judgment

You Alone do we worship and You Alone do we ask for help

Guide us to the straight path

The Path of those on whom You bestowed Your bounties

Not the path of those who incurred Your wrath or those who went astray.” (Quran 1:1-7)

 

[whoami]

It looks like it as tge arab religion is based on jewish myth. Based on jewish prophet's.and somehow, they conned the Arabs by saying both the Jews and Arabs arab are descendants of Abraham. Jews from one mother, Arabs from another mum ( slave mum).
Though there were conflicts with jews during prophet mohamads time, The current conflict with Jews only started with the seizure of Palestinian land.in between, it was fine and dandy.

Which ever way u can interprete it. Fine with me. Hey, even God's word written on bark, etc etc u also have a problem. Then tell us how would God spread HIS message to mankind? Come dw to earth in person? Wld u then believe

 

[whoami]

As a side note, a lot of scientists treat science as a substitute for religion. I daresay to say that a lot of people who are supposed to scientists seem like they are religious, except the religion is the religion of science.

Quran does not reject science. So much evidence found in the Quran. So i am not surprise scientist will slowly cm to term with the Quran (n embrace Islam) when they realise wat they r studyg or discover can actually be found in the Quran. Subhanallah!

 

[syed putra]

First chapter of the Holy Quran.

All praise is to God, Lord of all the worlds

Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Master of the Day of Judgment

You Alone do we worship and You Alone do we ask for help

Guide us to the straight path

The Path of those on whom You bestowed Your bounties

Not the path of those who incurred Your wrath or those who went astray.” (Quran 1:1-7)

My translation


THE OPENER

1:1 With God’s name, the gracious, the merciful
1:2 The praise is for God – the Lord of the well informed.
1:3 The gracious, the merciful
1:4 The absolute Power of the day of the order
1:5 You alone we serve and You alone we ask for help
1:6 Direct us the path of those who are observant
1:7 The path that You have favoured upon them - not the wrath over them - and not of the strayers.

 

[syed putra]

Quran does not reject science. So much evidence found in the Quran. So i am not surprise scientist will slowly cm to term with the Quran (n embrace Islam) when they realise wat they r studyg or discover can actually be found in the Quran. Subhanallah!

There is not much about science in the Quran if based on current standards.
In fact the reverse us happening. Muslims are rejecting evidence and science.

 

[whoami]

My translation


THE OPENER

1:1 With God’s name, the gracious, the merciful
1:2 The praise is for God – the Lord of the well informed.
1:3 The gracious, the merciful
1:4 The absolute Power of the day of the order
1:5 You alone we serve and You alone we ask for help
1:6 Direct us the path of those who are observant
1:7 The path that You have favoured upon them - not the wrath over them - and not of the strayers.

Tats the reason why teres so many diff sects in other religion. Luckily we still have the original Arabic Quran. In doubt just refer to the original language. Will never go astray. Anyway hw do u "serve"?

 

[whoami]

There is not much about science in the Quran if based on current standards.
In fact the reverse us happening. Muslims are rejecting evidence and science.

Tons of them in the Quran. Mentioned 1400 yrs ago. I lazy to quote. U go help urself.

Yes. U can accept ur ancestor fm planet of the apes. Not me

 

[syed putra]

Tats the reason why teres so many diff sects in other religion. Luckily we still have the original Arabic Quran. In doubt just refer to the original language. Will never go astray. Anyway hw do u "serve"?

By doing good deeds. No need to define what deeds are good.its all in your head.

 

[syed putra]

Tons of them in the Quran. Mentioned 1400 yrs ago. I lazy to quote. U go help urself.

Yes. U can accept ur ancestor fm planet of the apes. Not me

It's already proven in dna. Humans are not that much different from apes and even pigs.

 

[whoami]

By doing good deeds. No need to define what deeds are good.its all in your head.

U r not God