Why Goh Meng Seng allow Nicole Seah climb all over him?

[Goh Meng Seng]

I will have to wait till Jan 2012 before I make further CRITICAL and even "CONTROVERSIAL" comments on GE2011.

Goh Meng Seng

GMS,

It's been 6 months since GE2011.

What's your take on why WP was able to win a GRC while other Oppo parties can't. Do point me to a posting you've made here in this forum if your assessment hasn't changed or you have fresher perspectives. Thanks.

 

[Ramseth]

I will have to wait till Jan 2012 before I make further CRITICAL and even "CONTROVERSIAL" comments on GE2011.

This is a wise posting. Wait till after their first performances in Parliament.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

It has nothing to do with their performances in Parliament. Regardless of how they perform, the conditions which led to their victory in Aljunied GRC still stands.

Goh Meng Seng

This is a wise posting. Wait till after their first performances in Parliament.

 

[Ramseth]

I will have to wait till Jan 2012 before I make further CRITICAL and even "CONTROVERSIAL" comments on GE2011.

Goh Meng Seng

It has nothing to do with their performances in Parliament. Regardless of how they perform, the conditions which led to their victory in Aljunied GRC still stands.

Goh Meng Seng

Then, why wait? Make your comments and critiques now.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Wait lor!

Goh Meng Seng

Then, why wait? Make your comments and critiques now.

 

[GoldenDragon]

Politics is different from soccer definitely. Results do count from various angles and perspectives, beside who wins or lose. Margin of winning, percentage of vote swing, comparison with past results, comparison between contemporaries etc will allow you to understand in depth the various strength and weaknesses of each parties as well as the change in the bigger environment.

Goh Meng Seng

Whatever you do, do not over 'anal lie'. You are an opposition politician, I hope. Not a professor. Results count. Period. Results refer to win or lose. The other results 'from various angles and perspectives' come in a distant 2nd. It is at best, a consolation prize. And no one remembers winners of consolation prizes. Getting a seat in parliament, nudging out the MIW you are contesting, has to be the only criteria.

Politics and soccer? Different? Has to be. One deals with people, the other a soccer ball. Same same? Has to be too. We remember winners not losers. And we don't like losers to give excuses why they didn't win but how they improved on their match stats.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

I guess I would have to agree to disagree with you.

Without understanding the past (results), one cannot make it better in the future. Politicians or not, this is the golden rule.

Goh Meng Seng

Whatever you do, do not over 'anal lie'. You are an opposition politician, I hope. Not a professor. Results count. Period. Results refer to win or lose. The other results 'from various angles and perspectives' come in a distant 2nd. It is at best, a consolation prize. And no one remembers winners of consolation prizes. Getting a seat in parliament, nudging out the MIW you are contesting, has to be the only criteria.

Politics and soccer? Different? Has to be. One deals with people, the other a soccer ball. Same same? Has to be too. We remember winners not losers. And we don't like losers to give excuses why they didn't win but how they improved on their match stats.

 

[Maximilian Chua-Heng]

I will have to wait till Jan 2012 before I make further CRITICAL and even "CONTROVERSIAL" comments on GE2011.

Goh Meng Seng

GMS,

OK then, but do see it from a voter's perspective why the WP always has a 5% edge over other Oppo parties.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

If this is what you are interested in only, then it would not be difficult to answer. It is a cumulative factor, right from 2001.

Having a seat in parliament is always an advantage to all and credit to LTK, he kept that seat for two decades. Although Chiam also kept his seat for more than 2 decades but here is where it differs: Chiam's past unhappy experience in SDP has become his personal obstacle in politics.

This GE2011 is a watershed elections, not only because WP managed to break through the walls of the GRC fortress but also because it has clearly shown that voters are becoming more discerning and politically aware. The political consciousness has risen significantly. This can be seen by the SPREAD of results within each individual parties. Unlike GE2001 or even GE2006 whereby within parties, apart from those incumbents, all other constituencies within the respective parties are more or less the same. Except for WP which has begun to have a wider spread of results (among those new candidates) in GE2006, all other parties are just getting "average" scores.

It just shows that WP has begun to improve back in GE2006 and credits to those who have participated as WP candidates back in GE2006, the foundation of WP's branding has been established since then.

Regular walkabouts and newspaper sales do make a significant difference to WP's party branding. You will be surprised that even up till now, some individual opposition members still think that newspaper sales is only a "once-a-month" activity. They do not understand nor believe the need of consistency in ground work such as newspaper sales. It is part and parcel of public outreach as well as public visibility exercise.

Frankly speaking, there is really limited means or avenues for opposition parties to get on ground activities other than newspaper sales and knocking doors. I would consider knocking doors as less efficient with varied effectiveness.

Ever since I joined NSP, I took pain to push for regular newspaper sales. After a few years of conditioning, it became part of its DNA, though in some aspect, I would have wanted it to be carried out in a certain manner. Nevertheless, such activity paid off as NSP's party branding has actually grown in a steady manner.

Thus if you ask me why WP is perceived to have a 5% advantage in party branding, I would credit part of it to consistency in such ground work which could be done by other parties as well. But this is only part of the whole picture. Having MPs in parliament will always give WP an advantage in enhancing its party image. You will get more (main stream) media coverage there and then with policy views made known. Other opposition parties without a seat in parliament will not have such luxury.

Having said all these, we should also observe the inherent weaknesses shown by the GE2011 results. WP has basically thrown everything in Aljunied GRC and the result of 54% is something which many people feel is "good that they have won" but nothing "exceptional". It is some sort of a "mixed feeling". Of course, if you are to be like Golden Dragon who will only see win or lose, then you would be very pleased and satisfied with it.

Apart from that, if you observe the results of other WP constituency results and compare them to other opposition parties like NSP, it will make you wonder "how come like that". The results seem to give mixed signals and it is up to people to make sense out of them.

It is not that difficult to realize the intricate signals reflected by the results if you compare GE2006 results plus the candidates involved. In GE2006, there are more "recognizable" candidates than GE2011. From Glenda Han, Sylvia Lim, Chia Tilik, Eric Tan to even Lee Waileng.

Although Glenda Han is still in WP's team but she has lost her shine basically because not enough media exposure opportunity has been given to her.

Some "analysts" have stated that "discipline" was what make WP's party branding. Even if that is so, it could only contribute to a very small portion but over-discipline has actually compromised the grooming and development of each candidate's potentials. Take for example, Gerald Giam. It is apparent that he tried very hard to follow to script and be "disciplined" but it takes away his shine; he could have performed even better if he could just let loose a bit.

Party branding could also be contributed by individual candidates. In GE2006, individual "colourful" candidates have contributed to the "wow effect" and thus, the WP party branding, breaking away from other parties. But it seems that by the look at those "average results" of 41%, there are more people riding on or piggy backing on WP's party branding rather than contributing to its development right now. No doubt people like CSM and to a lesser extend, Gerald Giam or even Pritam might have enhanced WP party branding but the question is, is that enough?

There are a lot interesting things reflected by this GE2011. Politics is an ongoing battle, not just a static win or lose result.

Goh Meng Seng

GMS,

OK then, but do see it from a voter's perspective why the WP always has a 5% edge over other Oppo parties.

 

[Fook Seng]

Party branding could also be contributed by individual candidates. In GE2006, individual "colourful" candidates have contributed to the "wow effect" and thus, the WP party branding, breaking away from other parties. But it seems that by the look at those "average results" of 41%, there are more people riding on or piggy backing on WP's party branding rather than contributing to its development right now. No doubt people like CSM and to a lesser extend, Gerald Giam or even Pritam might have enhanced WP party branding but the question is, is that enough?

Goh Meng Seng

With so many defects pointed out by you, WP has achieved a 5 % advantage over the average opposition. Imagine how much more they can achieve with improvement in candidates and branding etc. However way you look at it, they are very successful. I now see that you are trying to emulate the success of WP in NSP and from here, only you know, but on your own terms and ways. So far you have no concrete results to show and time seems to be running out. If you are waiting for some change in the cooperation of opposition parties by Jan 2012, you could be disappointed as it is likely to take you all the way up to 2016. Don't sound like the Govt defending their horrible losses in the recent recession by leaning on long term returns. I don't buy it. Long term returns can cover everything including short term suicides.

 

[ssrrvv11]

Having said all these, we should also observe the inherent weaknesses shown by the GE2011 results. WP has basically thrown everything in Aljunied GRC and the result of 54% is something which many people feel is "good that they have won" but nothing "exceptional". It is some sort of a "mixed feeling". Of course, if you are to be like Golden Dragon who will only see win or lose, then you would be very pleased and satisfied with it.



gms sour grapes theory. wp won grc so? 54% only what.

 

[Perspective]

Human leaders only have 2 choices. Either run a tightship "disclipined" organisation and risk individual suppression or be a free for all and open a can of worms. I don't understand what's so interesting about wrangling over such topics.

 

[Fook Seng]

Having said all these, we should also observe the inherent weaknesses shown by the GE2011 results. WP has basically thrown everything in Aljunied GRC and the result of 54% is something which many people feel is "good that they have won" but nothing "exceptional". It is some sort of a "mixed feeling". Of course, if you are to be like Golden Dragon who will only see win or lose, then you would be very pleased and satisfied with it.

gms sour grapes theory. wp won grc so? 54% only what.

In fact 54 % score in a GRC is as significant as a 65% result in a SMC.

 

[ssrrvv11]

In fact 54 % score in a GRC is as significant as a 65% result in a SMC.

all can see this logic, except that extremely thick-skin gms. he still think nsp did better than wp. now he try to give a bit of credit to himself for wp's 2011 success by saying the wp2006 started the ball rolling. not that i disagree lah 100% on this aspect.

gms has nothing to cling on to so lan lan gotta even quote wp2006 to save himself some face.

3 cheers for tkl. yay!

 

[GoldenDragon]

Of course, if you are to be like Golden Dragon who will only see win or lose, then you would be very pleased and satisfied with it.

If they had won by the slimmest of margin, 50.01%, my 'songness' factor goes up many many times. If only TCB had defeated TT by the same margin. Lagi shiok.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Well, if WP only win by 50.1%, I believe Golden Dragon will also be screaming, pulling his hair and dance in ecstasy.

Goh Meng Seng

If they had won by the slimmest of margin, 50.01%, my 'songness' factor goes up many many times. If only TCB had defeated TT by the same margin. Lagi shiok.

 

[CakeLengKia]

seriously if nsp fielded a tampines grc 'A' team which consists of GMS, nicole seah, tony tan lay thiam, hazel poa and one malay candidate (maybe abdul halim?) they might win the grc very narrowly like 50.05% maybe? considering that mah bow tan is someone not well liked by the rakyat

 

[Seee3]

seriously if nsp fielded a tampines grc 'A' team which consists of GMS, nicole seah, tony tan lay thiam, hazel poa and one malay candidate (maybe abdul halim?) they might win the grc very narrowly like 50.05% maybe? considering that mah bow tan is someone not well liked by the rakyat

Why would he want to win Tampines?

 

[Fook Seng]

Why would he want to win Tampines?

It is part of political development. You have one ward in the East, one in the Centre and one in the West and then you link them up.

 

[brocoli]

Golden Dragon has asked me why WP has won 6 seats but I would rather tell him to look at why WP has lost 75% of the seats it has contested. Yes, other parties have lost 100% of their contested seats but it doesn't change the fact that if WP has done everything right, it should have at least 50% of the seats won. And to think that WP sent two MPs (MP LTK and NCMP Sylvia Lim) plus a high flyer lawyer CSM to Aljunied, it actually had a hard fight by winning 54% of the votes. I was actually expecting something like 55% to 60%. Now, what would happen if CSM was not fielded? Or LTK wasn't there? Could WP win Aljunied at all? This is actually food for thought.

In short, with such a strong team, WP team in Aljunied could only manage the "AVERAGE" vote swing of 11% (or less). East Coast has a vote swing of about 9%. These two GRCs are WP's focus since 2006. These are actually alarming signals.

one MP, one non-constituency MP, one celebrity, two unknowns winning 54% of the votes against two ministers, one Speaker of Parliament, one very good ground worker (Ong Ye Kung) and Cynthia Phua seem quite goot to me

what about about basic PAP support from civil service, grassroots, inertia and apathetics already amounting above 40% ? gong jiao wei

Some analysts gave the analysis that only party branding matters. They have been grossly mistaken. It takes BOTH party branding as well as individual candidates' strength and public profile for a winning formula, else, WP would have won East Coast GRC as well and could have done better in Moulmein Kallang, Yishun and the other two SMCs in the North. The importance of individual candidates' strength and public profile was also demonstrated both in NSP and SDP as well. NSP has the widest spread of result and apparently this reflects on the fact that individuals' strength and public profile really counts. These results differ greatly from GE2006 whereby the two main GRCs NSP contested (Tampines and Jalan Besar) under SDA has almost identical result.

As a note, party branding shouldn't be over played as well. The fact that NSP could have two GRCs performing better than WP's two other GRCs (Yishun and Moulmein Kallang) speaks volume of the underlying weakness of WP in terms of grooming of individual candidates.

The most interesting comparison would be Moulmein Kallang vs Tampines.

I agree that candidates quality matter but you are comparing WP C and D teams against your NSP teams which hav easy opponents like Mahboro and Tin Tin and NSP only did marginally better than them so your quality ish not that goot as well !!! there was no big issues @ Yishun and Moulmein Kallang whereas we have tens of thousands calling for tin tin and mahboro head !!!

the winning formula is good party branding plus good candidates. Other parties may not have as good party branding as WP but they may have slightly better candidates in terms of public profile or strength. Thus, they could well perform as well or even better than WP's average candidates

agree on good party branding plus good candidates but other party do not have better candidates in terms of public profile or strength !!! compare apple with apples, dun just take WP D team to compare with other party A team...

your Jurong Team, half of your Tampines Team and SDP sembawang Team srsly ish shite compare with WP MK team

Potential candidates are expected to keep "quiet", toe the line until to an extend that they are so blend. How many WP candidates could voters remember other than LTK, Sylvia Lim and CSM (out of the 23)?

bland not blend ....

but better average candidates than candidates like CHia Ti Lik, James GOmez, Goh Meng Seng and Eric Tan who cant stay the distance...

the greater danger for WP is groupthink ... not having average candidates... serious candidates 1st stop will be WP, WP can clear the 2011 trash just as easily as they clear the 2006 trash..

They must be able to accept people who disagree with them but not loose cannon like fab 4 above...

No, Mr Thick. Party branding without strong candidate, you will get no where.

Joo Chiat is an exception in the sense that there were local issues of pubs and whores which have built up over the years. i.e. it is an outlier example.

Goh Meng Seng

JJ taught computer science at NUS, is a successful entrepreneur and served on a number of government committees, just contrast with Goh Meng Seng, Kenn Sun, Yip Yew Weng and Sebastian Teo

The impact on MP will be very different if it is being contested by WP because there will be an enlarged effect from the neighbouring East Coast and Aljunied. On top of that, it is apparent that WP's party branding is worth at least 5% from other opposition parties. Whether WP can take down MP plus East Coast is up to anyone's speculation but as I have said, there are other strategic motives for contesting MP.

yes NSP should give up Marine Parade in 2016

Perception is everything in politics.

WP MK team is really weak, really. As I have stated, MK has Lily Neo's stronghold drawn out, along with Heng CH's Whampao. LTY is not a strong minister at all. If you are talking about results, it tells a lot of how voters perceive them.

I am not questioning the "quality" or "qualification" of WP candidates but rather, the lack of "grooming" given to them. Grooming them to be public figures, known individuals to the public etc. Whether we like it or not, politicians will have difficulty in winning if they are not known to the public. Of course, this is only part of the winning formula: other factors like party branding and such still counts.

you obviously dun care about Perception or wan other to perceive you as a siao lang

Bland not blend, I dun think Lee LiLian is average, there is a reason Low put her there rather G*****... she is very good with the ground... without Desmond Lim there, she would be in Parliament not Gerald ... she is very active in the party and grasswork

you only have 1 candidates with good "grooming", NS, Currently her political capital and relevance is @ all time low...

It just shows that WP has begun to improve back in GE2006 and credits to those who have participated as WP candidates back in GE2006, the foundation of WP's branding has been established since then.

It is not that difficult to realize the intricate signals reflected by the results if you compare GE2006 results plus the candidates involved. In GE2006, there are more "recognizable" candidates than GE2011. From Glenda Han, Sylvia Lim, Chia Tilik, Eric Tan to even Lee Waileng.

Although Glenda Han is still in WP's team but she has lost her shine basically because not enough media exposure opportunity has been given to her.

WP has be rebuilt after GE2006 and they have become stronger for it... if Lee Waileng is so good why is she is just emcee??? other than Nicole, Tan couple and Jeanette, most of your candidates are shit

but voters do vote for boring safe candidates.... the days where electorate look for individual "colourful" candidates and "wow effect" like JBJ is over, even then JBJ could neven win over more than 35% of the populance....

belmont lay and alex Au was writing about TCB about how boring and lack of stances he is but it was TCB who was 7000 votes short of defeating TT

as for Glenda,
she is just another Bimbo who hav no policy viewpoints and only speak generic motherhood statements and dun do ground work and go disappear in HK ... come back to Singapore also never see her around

why are other candidates like Lilian and ah Huat appointed LAs and not a lao jiao like her... Low and Sylvia are not blind!!

she is last of the 06 trash have to be clear and this trash will be clear, she is only hangin around because she think she is a shoo in candidate for 2016,

I have no doubt she will disappear like perry and the rest once she know Low will drop her and Low will drop her once some1 better and more hardworking come in...

media exposure, she only know how to make a fuss bout her name spelling and headlines like
'I know what to expect, I guess': WP's Glenda Han