Why Goh Meng Seng allow Nicole Seah climb all over him?

[Maximilian Chua-Heng]

We have already addressed the issue that he doesn't see the difference between politician and political activist several posts ago.

So what are you, GMS?

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Mr. Heng & Mr. Baey are actually quite popular in Tampines. Even though Mr. Baey only joins the team at the very last minute, but the aunties love him. BTW, do you know how intensive the HDB upgrading in Tampines is? Every corner you turn, you will see upgrading in progress. This is no surprise because MBT is the minister of MND taking charge of HDB.

You are losing sight of proper comparison here. No matter how you compare, NSP under SDA scored only 31% in Tampines back in 2006 while WP scored 44% in Aljunied. MBT was not perceived as a "weak minister" but in fact, HDB was the PAP's biggest political capital.

George Yeo together with his team, similar to Uncle Goh, has been proven to have this myth that he is "popular". This has been proven even earlier, back in 2006.

If you want to disregard the figures, it is perfectly fine with me actually. Most likely its your loss, not mine. There are reasons why WP didn't max its scores in Aljunied but since you and Golden Dragon are not interested in them, well just let it be lor.


Goh Meng Seng

There is really nothing to argue over what is counted as convincing victory. 60% for PAP was a blow but same result for other democracies are overwhelming victory. As you put it, politic is about perception. The perception is opposition won a GRC, the psychological barrier was breached. Arguing over what score it should be is probably not going to be fruitful.

While there is WP branding but isn't PAP itself a branding? While WP sent their A" team ther, can you deny PAP team led by GY is weak? While it true that WP does all the groundwork, does that mean PAP is doing nothing?

After the 2006 election, I would think PAP had been doing all the groundwork even more. In fact the groundwork of PAP and WP is totally in a different league. What sort of groundwork can oppositions do without the support of grassroots organistion? You know it better than me.

As for Tampines, U are making it sound as if you are up against a formidable team. you just need to look into the team make up.

HENG SWEE KEAT (newbie)
MAH BOW TAN (unpopular)
MASAGOS ZULKIFLI BMM (lightwieght)
IRENE NG PHEK HOONG (lightweight)
BAEY YAM KENG (newbie from TP GRC)

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

I am what I am.

Goh Meng Seng

So what are you, GMS?

 

[ssrrvv11]

Mr. Heng & Mr. Baey are actually quite popular in Tampines. Even though Mr. Baey only joins the team at the very last minute, but the aunties love him. BTW, do you know how intensive the HDB upgrading in Tampines is? Every corner you turn, you will see upgrading in progress. This is no surprise because MBT is the minister of MND taking charge of HDB.

You are losing sight of proper comparison here. No matter how you compare, NSP under SDA scored only 31% in Tampines back in 2006 while WP scored 44% in Aljunied. MBT was not perceived as a "weak minister" but in fact, HDB was the PAP's biggest political capital.

George Yeo together with his team, similar to Uncle Goh, has been proven to have this myth that he is "popular". This has been proven even earlier, back in 2006.

If you want to disregard the figures, it is perfectly fine with me actually. Most likely its your loss, not mine. There are reasons why WP didn't max its scores in Aljunied but since you and Golden Dragon are not interested in them, well just let it be lor.


Goh Meng Seng

gms nothing new. lose already full of excuses. see u no up.

pap win tampines becos aunties like baey. why dun u attribute your loss to your ugly face? becos aunties see your face damn sian. like that sound more convincing.

 

[Perspective]

From 2006 to 2011, the swing in Tampines was 11.3% and in Aljunied it was 10.8%, and the 0.5% superior difference is being held up like a World Cup. This is getting funnier by the minute. Real analysts know it gets harder as you get deeper into and eat into your opponent's vote share, and THAT is one comparing of real differences. That is why SDP's vote swing is the highest - it's so easy to get the 13% that you failed to get and should have got in 2006 in the first place. For SDP, the results in 2011 doesn't show their success in 2011 - instead it showed their absolute failure in 2006.

 

[3_M]

Mr. Heng & Mr. Baey are actually quite popular in Tampines. Even though Mr. Baey only joins the team at the very last minute, but the aunties love him. BTW, do you know how intensive the HDB upgrading in Tampines is? Every corner you turn, you will see upgrading in progress. This is no surprise because MBT is the minister of MND taking charge of HDB.

You are losing sight of proper comparison here. No matter how you compare, NSP under SDA scored only 31% in Tampines back in 2006 while WP scored 44% in Aljunied. MBT was not perceived as a "weak minister" but in fact, HDB was the PAP's biggest political capital.

George Yeo together with his team, similar to Uncle Goh, has been proven to have this myth that he is "popular". This has been proven even earlier, back in 2006.

If you want to disregard the figures, it is perfectly fine with me actually. Most likely its your loss, not mine. There are reasons why WP didn't max its scores in Aljunied but since you and Golden Dragon are not interested in them, well just let it be lor.


Goh Meng Seng

GMS you are getting too obsessed with numbers. Making assumptions on scores isn't science or mathematics..numbers can be deceiving.

For a start, look at the team SDA sent to Tampines. Slipperman and gang of unknown. 31% is really no surprise. To give you credit, NSP 2011 team was much better than 2006.

Secondly 5 years is a super long time in politics. how relevant is your comparison?

Thirdly even if all factors are constant, comparing different wards can also be misleading as you need to factor in the make up of the electorates, the competing parties and their candidates.

Back to to Tampines, people may have a good impression of Heng and Baey but they are still after all new to the area. The rapport with the residents wasn't there. Looks MAY only make a difference to the undecided and I don't think that number is significant. HDB may be the biggest political capital for PAP but it had turned out to be a liability. this time round. Even you yourself also admit the ground is sweet.

Not that I am not interested in the score but trying to say that WP should have score 60% is probably speaking with the benefit of the hindsight. Who will know what the outcome will be if WP changes certain input? What mistakes do you think WP team in aljunied commit since you think they didn't perform up to expectation?

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Statistically, if you take it as normal distribution, yes, the numbers does matter.

As I have said, you could keep to your own belief that it doesn't matter and live happily ever after.

I have told quite a number of people prior to GE and told them, I believe WP will win Aljunied with at least 55% to 60% while people are having doubts about WP winning Aljunied. That's not hindsight.

Goh Meng Seng

GMS you are getting too obsessed with numbers. Making assumptions on scores isn't science or mathematics..numbers can be deceiving.

For a start, look at the team SDA sent to Tampines. Slipperman and gang of unknown. 31% is really no surprise. To give you credit, NSP 2011 team was much better than 2006.

Secondly 5 years is a super long time in politics. how relevant is your comparison?

Thirdly even if all factors are constant, comparing different wards can also be misleading as you need to factor in the make up of the electorates, the competing parties and their candidates.

Back to to Tampines, people may have a good impression of Heng and Baey but they are still after all new to the area. The rapport with the residents wasn't there. Looks MAY only make a difference to the undecided and I don't think that number is significant. HDB may be the biggest political capital for PAP but it had turned out to be a liability. this time round. Even you yourself also admit the ground is sweet.

Not that I am not interested in the score but trying to say that WP should have score 60% is probably speaking with the benefit of the hindsight. Who will know what the outcome will be if WP changes certain input? What mistakes do you think WP team in aljunied commit since you think they didn't perform up to expectation?

 

[Perspective]

There are hindsights from people that lead to them sending their not-the-strongest team to a place where they end up getting the highest votes, then they come and yah yah and said they foresee this, foresee that.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

It is surprising that there is no one from WP or its supporters could provide a convincing defense of why the Aljunied result was not that spectacular. All they have done so far is to give all sorts of excuses and smokescreen.

There are a few REAL reasons why the result is such. I will offer two more obvious reasons. One, Hougang Ave 8 division (under Yeo GK) has been cut off to AMK. PAP has scored relatively low in this division during GE2006 (worse than the average poll of 44%). This would of course affect the result since PAP's relatively weaker part has been cut off, it would be more difficult for WP to capitalize on the continued hard work invested in that area.

Kaki Bukit was included into Aljunied in replacement. From the media release by Sylvia Lim, we can actually get a clue of WP's weakness. Sylvia has lamented that Kaki Bukit has an unusually high percentage of Malay voters (27%). Why would it be a "problem" or perceived as an "disadvantage" to WP? Apparently, PAP and even WP itself know that WP is weak in getting Malay votes!

Luckily, this WP's inherent weakness has been more or less neutralized by the swing in Malay sentiments against PAP. But it also means that it was not able to get extra votes from the Malay Singaporeans which other opposition parties seem to enjoy. However, if WP wants to continue entrenching itself in the long term, it will have to look into this inherent weakness and solve it.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[Fook Seng]

GMS you are getting too obsessed with numbers. Making assumptions on scores isn't science or mathematics..numbers can be deceiving.

For a start, look at the team SDA sent to Tampines. Slipperman and gang of unknown. 31% is really no surprise. To give you credit, NSP 2011 team was much better than 2006.

Secondly 5 years is a super long time in politics. how relevant is your comparison?

Thirdly even if all factors are constant, comparing different wards can also be misleading as you need to factor in the make up of the electorates, the competing parties and their candidates.

Back to to Tampines, people may have a good impression of Heng and Baey but they are still after all new to the area. The rapport with the residents wasn't there. Looks MAY only make a difference to the undecided and I don't think that number is significant. HDB may be the biggest political capital for PAP but it had turned out to be a liability. this time round. Even you yourself also admit the ground is sweet.

Not that I am not interested in the score but trying to say that WP should have score 60% is probably speaking with the benefit of the hindsight. Who will know what the outcome will be if WP changes certain input? What mistakes do you think WP team in aljunied commit since you think they didn't perform up to expectation?

I believe before the elections most people put WP of winning Aljunied at 50-50 or for that matter any party winning any other GRC as zero. To win Aljunied was a surprise. To win with 54 % was a shock and it was a win in almost every ward in the GRC. Notice GY's reaction and LHH's reaction. LHL's haggard look has not recovered much since then. GMS seems more confident with another party chances than his own. If you analyze his reaction just after the elections. He seemed extremely upset with his own results. In other words, throughout the elections he had over-estimated the chances of every opposition party including his own. It is a case of cognitive dissonance.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Yes, I was upset with NSP performance initially but I also know that our fate has already been cast when I failed to convince the scholars to contest in Tampines. It is a reflection of my frustration over what I have expected... the bad part of it. I was hoping that I was wrong but no, the expected result came up.

There are also issues which I was frustrated with but I shall not deal with it here.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[GoldenDragon]

There are reasons why WP didn't max its scores in Aljunied but since you and Golden Dragon are not interested in them, well just let it be lor.

I am sure it is not only myself and several others who look for the real results - win or lose.

I gave you a soccer analogy. Now I present to you a hangflower analogy. The message is the same - winner counts, winner takes all, ok?

You patronise a HFJ almost daily. Hang around 1k each time you visit as you want to chase a singer. After 1 mth, you realised you spent close to 40k on this singer - hangflower, buy her a watch, handbag, handphone etc. But never managed to bed her. Worse, panty also never see!

While you were chasing her, another client comes into the picture. After a month of chasing her skirt, your rival managed to bed the singer and in that process, spent less than 1k.

Tell me, GMS, who is the winner here? The one who spend more money or the one who bedded the singer?

 

[brocoli]

Mr. Heng & Mr. Baey are actually quite popular in Tampines. Even though Mr. Baey only joins the team at the very last minute, but the aunties love him. BTW, do you know how intensive the HDB upgrading in Tampines is? Every corner you turn, you will see upgrading in progress. This is no surprise because MBT is the minister of MND taking charge of HDB.

they werent that popular during the election but now they are popular and entrenched there liao now.....thanks to you.... 2011 was the year where Tampines should fall but didnt and now will never fall

and if Tampines was so hard and Aljunied so easy why didnt you go there ? why did you ask Tan Jiak Sai, scholar couples and Nicole to go fight Tampinese with you if you think that grc was so hard ??? sibei gong jiao wei

Statistically, if you take it as normal distribution, yes, the numbers does matter.

I have told quite a number of people prior to GE and told them, I believe WP will win Aljunied with at least 55% to 60% while people are having doubts about WP winning Aljunied. That's not hindsight.

what did you tell the statistician Tan Kin Lian??? sibei gong jia wei

Kaki Bukit was included into Aljunied in replacement. From the media release by Sylvia Lim, we can actually get a clue of WP's weakness. Sylvia has lamented that Kaki Bukit has an unusually high percentage of Malay voters (27%). Why would it be a "problem" or perceived as an "disadvantage" to WP? Apparently, PAP and even WP itself know that WP is weak in getting Malay votes!

the problem with Kaki Bukit is that PAP put Ong Ye Kung there and put A/P Mohd Faisal in Nee Soon when the latter is super popular there... if not WP might have lost....

admittedly Muhammad Faisal Abdul Manap seem like a really weak candiate...freelance counsellor basically mean unemployed... I would think low malay vote is cause their malay candidate is weak ... and also WP didnt do much ground work there since it was part of Marine Parade...

Yes, I was upset with NSP performance initially but I also know that our fate has already been cast when I failed to convince the scholars to contest in Tampines. It is a reflection of my frustration over what I have expected... the bad part of it. I was hoping that I was wrong but no, the expected result came up.

There are also issues which I was frustrated with but I shall not deal with it here.

Goh Meng Seng

say lah!!!! got sai dun wan to pang, wan to tio consipation isjib !!!??

the problem with NSP is no leaderships and directions, they come to you for the platform to contest and you cant even ask them to contest in Tampines.... this is most evident during PE.... bunch of headless clowns makeing a fool and sebastian Teo nowhere to be seen, fly by nite politician

for WP, other than Melvin who is a has been in the party making a statment, the rest all diam diam although we can all guess who they vote for...

 

[3_M]

Yes, I was upset with NSP performance initially but I also know that our fate has already been cast when I failed to convince the scholars to contest in Tampines. It is a reflection of my frustration over what I have expected... the bad part of it. I was hoping that I was wrong but no, the expected result came up.

There are also issues which I was frustrated with but I shall not deal with it here.

Goh Meng Seng

I thought they should be following the party's instructions and not dictating terms?

If that the case, something is wrong with the party and leadership.

 

[Fook Seng]

Yes, I was upset with NSP performance initially but I also know that our fate has already been cast when I failed to convince the scholars to contest in Tampines. It is a reflection of my frustration over what I have expected... the bad part of it. I was hoping that I was wrong but no, the expected result came up.

There are also issues which I was frustrated with but I shall not deal with it here.

Goh Meng Seng

You should have realized that there have to be party discipline especially when you have these scholars. They think they are smarter than every body else. The younger group nowadays embraces randomness. But I am surprised that you also fall into this habit.

 

[brocoli]

He could have won had he and Seb rejected all the RP refugees (well, including my niece) and concentrated on winning Tampines. The contesting as many seats as possible strategy made no sense to me with this situation and resources.

dis 1 ish your sis or sis-in-law? can intro??

:oIo::oIo::oIo:

 

[Ramseth]

I thought they should be following the party's instructions and not dictating terms?

If that the case, something is wrong with the party and leadership.

The party obviously has no leadership. It's a refugee ship! Lo lo lo and ho ho ho to the ends of the shores with lands in sight but never will never get the visa to get landed.

 

[Annoyed]

I was overseas in 2006 and not following the elections that closely, so I can't comment on whether the candidates then shone more than the ones this year. I'm also not interested in disputing "intricate signals" and "average results of 41%".

I'm here because I feel I must disagree with the point made about Glenda Han. Not enough media opportunities were given to her over the last couple of years. Why? Supposedly because she was based in Hong Kong. But even when she does get the occasional interview - like after GE2011 - she squanders away the opportunity with some of the most *facepalm* statements ever. I remembered reporters asking if people were intimidated by a female politician. Her answer went something along the lines of, no I don't think so, because they still ask me for my phone number. Ask me for my phone number? WTH???? You can say I'm daft, overreacting or both, but the first thing that came to my mind was, "Why should she even talk about people asking her for her PHONE NUMBER????"

I can imagine what the counter-response to that would be. That with the appropriate training, she would have known how to answer the question in a more intelligent way. Perhaps. But these days, it's not just about how candidates appear on the mainstream media that affects people's perceptions of them; there's social media like Facebooks, blogs, etc. I previously mentioned on this forum that I really was not impressed by Ms Han's facebook postings. Her arguments lack depth and coherence. I wouldn't call them motherhood statehoods, but they're hardly noteworthy in any sense of the word.

Why do I talk about Facebook postings and blogs? Because these are some of the long-term tools that the electorate can use to judge various candidates. I read Yee Jenn Jong's blog on a fairly regular basis. Now, that guy has substance. I don't always agree with the things he says, but he obviously has his view on things, and always manages to present them in a coherent and intelligent manner. He recently started a blog that's focused exclusively on Joo Chiat. There, he makes use of his depth of knowledge to take readers through the place that was also where he spent his entire life, and where he likely will contest in the next elections - barring any mishaps and gerrymandering. He knows how to maximise the use of alternative media to his advantage.

Pritam Singh, too, demonstrates knowledge and character. I read his Facebook updates regularly and it's pretty telling, some of the things he chooses to talk about and the way he encourages other readers to participate in discussions on pertinent matters. And of course, Chen Show Mao - whom most people will say is in a different league altogether. Anyone read the email interview he gave to Asymptote, which was also posted on Facebook? I've never seen so much soul in any (Singaporean) politician. Then again, I'm an intellectual snob who gets blown away by good writing and academic credentials. But even Yaw Shin Leong* and Lillian Lee, whom I don't think are all that exceptional, make me sit up and notice. They may not have the rah-rah degrees, or be able to string together flowery sentences in the bestest angmoh in Sinkiepore, but they have heart. It shows through in their writings.

Age and life experience play a part but c'mon, Glenda's not in her twenties anymore. For someone with a fair bit of international experience, I'm surprised she doesn't take the time to share some of those things. There is more than one way to skin a cat, no? Talk about some of her experiences working in HK, what she has learned, how and why they are pertinent to Singapore, blah blah blah.

I can forsee the counterpoint to what I've said above: not everybody reads blogs or uses Facebook. Sure, but for those who do, these things can and will make a difference. Besides, how much coverage does the mainstream media give to Opposition party members on a regular basis anyway? Even during elections, what they get is limited - unless, for some reason, they manage to capture the public's imagination in entirely overblown ways (cf: Nicole Seah). In which case it'll be folly for the likes of ST, Zaobao and TNP not to also capitalize on the hoohar. I maintain that public figures are responsible for upholding their public image, and that includes the way they choose to use alternative media. The party can teach you how to handle journalists, but that will only go so far. At the end of the day, substance - and the absence of it - shows through.

*I'm well aware that any mention of Yaw Shin Leong will resurrect the issue about him voting for the PAP, and then publicizing it. Like many here, I agree it was political idiocy. But I won't go into an exposition on that because it's a done deal. As far as I'm concerned, he has redeemed himself. You are, of course, entitled to think otherwise; it's a free world and I'm not about to waste time arguing.

It is not that difficult to realize the intricate signals reflected by the results if you compare GE2006 results plus the candidates involved. In GE2006, there are more "recognizable" candidates than GE2011. From Glenda Han, Sylvia Lim, Chia Tilik, Eric Tan to even Lee Waileng.

Although Glenda Han is still in WP's team but she has lost her shine basically because not enough media exposure opportunity has been given to her.

Party branding could also be contributed by individual candidates. In GE2006, individual "colourful" candidates have contributed to the "wow effect" and thus, the WP party branding, breaking away from other parties. But it seems that by the look at those "average results" of 41%, there are more people riding on or piggy backing on WP's party branding rather than contributing to its development right now. No doubt people like CSM and to a lesser extend, Gerald Giam or even Pritam might have enhanced WP party branding but the question is, is that enough?

Goh Meng Seng

 

[ssrrvv11]

Statistically, if you take it as normal distribution, yes, the numbers does matter.

As I have said, you could keep to your own belief that it doesn't matter and live happily ever after.

I have told quite a number of people prior to GE and told them, I believe WP will win Aljunied with at least 55% to 60% while people are having doubts about WP winning Aljunied. That's not hindsight.

Goh Meng Seng

so gms did u also told quite a lot of ppl that TKL will lose his presidential bid deposit? since u so chun in your analysis? why didnt u tell TKl to FO and dun waste time + $ + face.

 

[Forvendet]

Party branding could also be contributed by individual candidates. In GE2006, individual "colourful" candidates have contributed to the "wow effect" and thus, the WP party branding, breaking away from other parties. But it seems that by the look at those "average results" of 41%, there are more people riding on or piggy backing on WP's party branding rather than contributing to its development right now. No doubt people like CSM and to a lesser extend, Gerald Giam or even Pritam might have enhanced WP party branding but the question is, is that enough?

Question is, since you've been kicked out from WP quite some years ago, in what position of capacity are you to question what's "enough" or not for WP? Your should question and worry about your own NSP, isn't it?