The Dave Lee (Corporal F.C.) Thread

[CoffeeAhSoh]

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https://www.reddit.com/r/singapore/...rold_nsf_dies_after_displaying_signs_of_heat/



I am a soldier from 1 guards. One of our fellow soldier is currently in critical condition heat stroke (possibly brain dead) due to the reckless behavior of my fellow commanders. I want to bring this to light so that the commanders involved are duly punished and nothing gets hidden as part of the investigation.

Dave is still in critical condition in the hospital, and it has almost been one week since the incident. But there has been rumours that his condition has worsening .

Illegal turnout

The night before a 8km fast march (an activity considered high key) our entire recce platoon was turned out after lights out by our sergants, forcing us to bear crawl to the SOC grounds at bedok camp, doing thier usual tekan of making us roll in the sand and have water poured on us, to satisfy their own sadistic pleasure. Asa result we did not have the adequate 7 hours of rest mandated by the traning safety regulation required for our fast march the next day.

Commanders forcing trainees

During the fast march, Dave struggled to complete his fast march and was dragged by senior commanders, forcing him to finish the fast march even though he was showing signs of extreme physical exhaution.

Dave collapsed after collecting his timing chip at our company line. We saw Dave breathing frantically, going through delirium, with his tounge out and only the white in his eyes visible. he was not articulate.

inability of commanders to spot heat exhaustion

It was obvious that even to an untrained soldier, especially commanders who went to OCS / SCS, that dave was going through Heat Exhaution or even heat stroke. yet they still acted as though there as nothing severe or that he could even be acting "keng"

non-administering of ice packs / BCU / water mist

the commanders did not follow the proper protocol for a soldier in heat exhaution. His cloths were not removed, no ice pack were place at the vital heat dissapation points in his body and the medic was even blur not knowing what to do. The safety officer was nowhere to be found during this whole time and the commnders left his body under the hot sun instead of bringing it to a shaded area. it took them almost 30minutes to an hour before they even stretched him away to the medical center before he was even transported to a hospital using the Military ambulance.

Lack of seriousness towards the incident

To add insult to injury, the sergeants were just surrounding him, talking cock and laughing and cracking jokes around him, obviously thinking the soldier is trying to keng. I hope sgt Justin, ren zong, nich, ren jie and jonas is punished for this. I really hope the army safety throughly investigates this incident and punishes the people involved. Its no point doing lip service to "safety" by adding it as a core value when safety is not given heed.

if anything happens to him, i believe its the fault of the commanders who did not know eve how to administer the proper procedure for Heat Stroke, wasting vital time before his temperature reached 42deg. As well as commanders who dont understand the seriousness of the uninteruppted rest that is required as per training safety regulation, especially for high key activities.

 

[Sideswipe]

thought military funerals are given for those who died in battle or prominent military figures, head of states. Singapore unique ?

 

[CoffeeAhSoh]

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[hofmann]

RIP Dave Lee.

No more ippt, no more soc.
You're suppose to ORD,
Not RIP.

:(

 

[steffychun]

thought military funerals are given for those who died in battle or prominent military figures, head of states. Singapore unique ?

Very funny.

 

[CoffeeAhSoh]

 

[Wunderfool]

The gutless commanders still have not come up to Dave ‘s parents to apologise ? What kind of leaders of men we have !
If they have done so , at least the saga has a closure for them and for the commanders they can finally let down their guilt burden with their confession .

 

[zhihau]

As a reservist OC, I am super welfare. I give all my men the benefit of doubt.

I like welfare ocifers!

 

[CoffeeAhSoh]

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21 june 2016

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Sum assured of a maximum of S$150,000 will cover pre-existing medical conditions .


SINGAPORE — Free life and personal accident insurance coverage will be provided for all full-time national servicemen (NSFs) and operationally-ready national servicemen (NSmen) from next month, as part of efforts to better recognise the contributions of national servicemen.

The coverage will benefit NSFs and NSmen serving in the Singapore Armed Forces (SAF), Singapore Police Force (SPF) and the Singapore Civil Defence Force. Under the Core Scheme, they will receive group term life coverage of S$150,000, and group personal accident insurance coverage of the same amount for the duration of their full-time National Service (NS) and operationally-ready NS duties.

The Ministry of Defence (Mindef) and Ministry of Home Affairs (MHA) will foot the premiums for the insurance coverage, the ministries said in a joint press release on Tuesday (June 21).

.Aviva is the appointed insurer for the initiative. The Core Scheme, which will cover pre-existing medical conditions, is expected to benefit more than 375,000 Mindef and MHA servicemen. Besides national servicemen, Mindef and SAF regulars and Home Team uniformed officers will also receive group term life and group personal accident insurance coverage during their period of service. Volunteers also stand to benefit.

NS volunteers, as well as volunteers from the SAF Volunteer Corps, SPF Voluntary Special Constabulary, and Civil Defence Auxiliary Unit, will enjoy similar insurance coverage in the course of their official duties. In addition, a Voluntary Scheme is available to all individuals covered under the Core Scheme – should they wish to insure themselves outside the stipulated coverage periods or their dependants.

Mindef and SAF public officers, MHA civilian employees, as well as Defence Science and Technology Agency staff may also buy coverage for themselves and their dependants under this scheme. It comes at “competitive premiums” and provides coverage of up to S$1 million for group term life insurance, and up to S$600,000 for group personal accident insurance.

Under the Voluntary Scheme, individuals aged 65 and below will pay a monthly premium of S$5.10 for every additional S$100,000 of group term life insurance coverage and S$100,000 of group personal accident insurance coverage. MHA personnel may sign up for the Voluntary Scheme from July 1, while those at Mindef can do so from Oct 1.

The provision of life and personal accident insurance coverage for national servicemen is one of 30 recommendations put forward by the Committee to Strengthen National Service, which has the task of looking into ways to improve the NS system and raise public support for it. Servicemen who are current policy-holders under each ministry’s existing insurance scheme will have their existing coverage ported over to the Voluntary Scheme.

Currently, NSFs in the SAF, for example, are covered automatically for a sum of S$100,000, unless they opt out, under the SAF Group Term Life Insurance Scheme – for which a S$12.80 premium is deducted from their monthly allowance. They can choose to pay higher premiums for greater coverage.

National servicemen TODAY spoke to welcomed the free coverage. A 21-year-old NSF serving in the SAF, who wanted to be known only as Sherman, said many NSFs struggled with their allowance, and those hard-pressed for money would no longer have to apply for other insurance schemes. “With this free insurance, I think it will really help ease the financial (burden),” he said.

Others said the scheme gave them greater assurance, should anything untoward befall them. Whether they opt for increased coverage under the Voluntary Scheme hinges on the particulars of the scheme, such as the cost of premiums, the servicemen said. Mr Dalton Wong, 22, an SPF NSF, said: “A higher coverage would mean a higher insured amount for my dependant and I think (that) is very important.”
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[zhihau]

Very funny.

a quick search on the net showed that 3SG Gavin Chan was given a military funeral in 2017.

1SG Heng and 1SG Seah also given military funeral after the sea collision incident.

 

[musashi]

Bros , can provide link to see "A Few Good Men " free online ???

thepiratebay.org/torrent/6463498
thepiratebay.org/search/a few good men/0/7/200
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Few_Good_Men

 

[Bonut]

13 pages liaoz still no names no photos no bios of the "torturers" ?

 

[Leongsam]

Any training death is one too many. Dave’s passing will not be forgotten, and must spur us to do better for all our soldiers. We will take a hard look, learn the right lessons, and strengthen our systems."

I do not agree that any death is one too many. In order for training to be realistic it has to be tough to the point where it might break the weakest link. As I said earlier NS is not a school camp it is about making Singapore ready for war.

I would put the acceptable figure at 1 death per 1000 trainees.

 

[Leongsam]

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The parents are obviously very proud that he died for his country

 

[Leongsam]

13 pages liaoz still no names no photos no bios of the "torturers" ?

They are not torturers they are dedicated soldiers who want those under their charge to be the best that they can be.

 

[tanwahtiu]

多嘴 talk nonsense...

They are not torturers they are dedicated soldiers who want those under their charge to be the best that they can be.

 

[Wunderfool]

I do not agree that any death is one too many. In order for training to be realistic it has to be tough to the point where it might break the weakest link. As I said earlier NS is not a school camp it is about making Singapore ready for war.

I would put the acceptable figure at 1 death per 1000 trainees.

Read the context closely. That BG is saying any training death due to lapses is not acceptable . No need even one death to justify action. Dave death has unfortunately highlighted the urgent need to close gaps in the safety handling and training system. That what he meant.

You don’t need death to test your safety procedures and system . They are supposed to prevent death .

 

[Leongsam]

Read the context closely. That BG is saying any training death due to lapses is not acceptable . No need even one death to justify action. Dave death has unfortunately highlighted the urgent need to close gaps in the safety handling and training system. That what he meant.

You don’t need death to test your safety procedures and system . They are supposed to prevent death .

There will always risk when it comes to military training. If the system makes it 100% safe then the training is a waste of time.

Around 150 to 200 people are killed on Singapore roads each year. There is no hue and cry. We accept that there is an inherent risk when it comes to transportation and the benefits of using motorised vehicles to get from one place to another outweighs the cost of losing lives once every couple of days on the average.

Military training is no different. The benefits of pushing trainees to the limit outweighs the risk that the weakest may not survive.

 

[Wunderfool]

There will always risk when it comes to military training. If the system makes it 100% safe then the training is a waste of time.

Around 150 to 200 people are killed on Singapore roads each year. There is no hue and cry. We accept that there is an inherent risk when it comes to transportation and the benefits of using motorised vehicles to get from one place to another outweighs the cost of losing lives once every couple of days on the average.

Military training is no different. The benefits of pushing trainees to the limit outweighs the risk that the weakest may not survive.

Yes, but NS is compulsory for Singaporean males. Training lapses in the army are not within your control. You have no choice but to go through it and accept the risks. Driving on the road is your personal choice . You know the risks and you decide. You have control to take the risk or not. That is a big difference .

 

[Leongsam]

Yes, but NS is compulsory for males. Driving on the road is your personal choice . That is a big difference .

Road deaths aren't just a result of driving. Innocent bystanders such as those walking on pavements and waiting at bus stops are killed far more often than drivers.

You may argue that they have a choice to stay at home out of harms way but the reality is that everyone needs to leave the house in the course of their daily lives.

We could easily reduce road deaths by more than half if all vehicles were fitted with speed limiters set to 50kph max.

So why is not done? The answer lies in the need for balance between safety and practicality.

SAF training is no different. If we wrap all the soldiers up in cotton wool, limit marches to 4km max and runs to 2km and never use live ammo the probability of dying would definitely fall dramatically but what would be the point of NS?