The Dave Lee (Corporal F.C.) Thread

[sweetiepie]

The parents are obviously very proud that he died for his country

KNN that is true. If is my uncle son my uncle would have rejected the military funeral and even forbid any military personnel to attend KNN

 

[Wunderfool]

Road deaths aren't just a result of driving. Innocent bystanders such as those walking on pavements and waiting at bus stops are killed far more often than drivers.

You may argue that they have a choice to stay at home out of harms way but the reality is that everyone needs to leave the house in the course of their daily lives.

We could reduce road deaths by more than half if all vehicles were fitted with speed limiters set to 50kph max.

So why is not done? The answer lies in the need for balance between safety and practicality.

SAF training is no different. If we wrap all the soldiers up in cotton wool, limit marches to 4km max and runs to 2km and never use live ammo the probability of dying would definitely fall dramatically but what would be the point of NS?

That kind of death is due to accidents. Freak accidents happen . But for Dave case, it could have been prevented. He could still be in injury , but he could have escaped death if urgent attention was given to him. His death is not an accident.

 

[winnipegjets]

They are not torturers they are dedicated soldiers who want those under their charge to be the best that they can be.

Sure or not? The 'torturers' are probably slackers themselves.

 

[Leongsam]

KNN that is true. If is my uncle son my uncle would have rejected the military funeral and even forbid any military personnel to attend KNN

Yeah they even chose a photo of him in full military garb. This is a sure sign that they support the SAF 100%.

 

[Leongsam]

That kind of death is due to accidents. Freak accidents happen . But for Dave case, it could have been prevented.

If you analyse road deaths very few are just "freak accidents". Most of them are a result of a rule not being followed eg speeding, using a phone while driving, drink driving, bald tyres etc.

A freak accident is when someone is struck by lightning or hit by a stray meteorite.

 

[sweetiepie]

Yeah they even chose a photo of him in full military garb. This is a sure sign that they support the SAF 100%.

KNN normally people will not associate something that cause a death to their kin KNN

 

[Leongsam]

Sure or not? The 'torturers' are probably slackers themselves.

I was a so called "torturer" when I was in the SAF. After the course my trainees would thank me for making them suffer and turning them into real men.

 

[Wunderfool]

If you analyse road deaths very few are just "freak accidents". Most of them are a result of a rule not being followed eg speeding, using a phone while driving, drink driving, bald tyres etc.

A freak accident is when someone is struck by lightning or hit by a stray meteorite.

So back to the question - is Dave death due to an accident or a lapse of safety precaution ? You have just answered it.

 

[Leongsam]

So back to the question - is Dave death due to an accident or a lapse of safety precaution ? You just answered it.

I don't consider this case to be a lapse or an accident. He died because he was not strong enough to withstand the rigors of an 8km march.

The training march did exactly what it was intended to do and that is to train soldiers to perform acts of endurance under stressful situations.

As a result one person died but those who did not die (ie the vast majority) would have benefitted from the training. You have to look at such matters from an overall risk vs reward perspective.

To reduce the risk of death one could argue that there should be no more 8km marches and the max should be set at 4km. The chances of someone dying would then be drastically reduced but there would be far less benefit from conducting the march in the first place.

 

[Wunderfool]

I don't consider this case to be a lapse or an accident. He died because he was not strong enough to withstand the rigors of an 8km march.

The training march did exactly what it was intended to do and that is to train soldiers to perform acts of endurance under stressful situations.

As a result one person died but those who did not die (ie the vast majority) would have benefitted from the training. You have to look at such matters from an overall risk vs reward perspective.

To reduce the risk of death one could argue that there should be no more 8km marches and the max should be set at 4km. The chances of someone dying would then be drastically reduced but there would be far less benefit from conducting the march in the first place.

No question he may not be strong on that day. But when he is down , that where the help must be provided quickly and expedtiously.

If I run a marathon and I fall and could not lift myself up no matter how hard I try , do I expect help or no help ? Will the organizers stand around me and tell me get up or will they lend me a hand or bring the medic quickly to help me?

 

[Leongsam]

If I run a marathon and I fall and could not lift myself up no matter how hard I try , do I expect help or no help ? Will the organizers stand around me and tell me get up or will they lend me a hand or bring the medic quickly to help me?

You are preempting the enquiry. Unless you were witness to the whole saga all we have at the moment is hearsay.

Deciding when to intervene is a judgement call. Hindsight is always 20/20.

For all you know the fault may lie with the medical profession. I've seen many cases of heat stroke over the years and none of those I witnessed resulted in death.

There is a standard procedure for treating heat stroke and there is no reason why the solider should die despite the treatment.

 

[Leongsam]

As a result we did not have the adequate 7 hours of rest mandated by the traning safety regulation required for our fast march the next day.

So when a war is being fought the enemy must be informed that they are not to disturb their foe unless they have had at least 7 hours of sleep?

A bloody ridiculous rule that should be removed from the SOP.

When I was in the army we survived a whole fucking week with only 3 hours sleep a night and nobody died.

 

[CoffeeAhSoh]

 

[Wunderfool]

You are preempting the enquiry. Unless you were witness to the whole saga all we have at the moment is hearsay.

Deciding when to intervene is a judgement call. Hindsight is always 20/20.

For all you know the fault may lie with the medical profession. I've seen many cases of heat stroke over the years and none of those I witnessed resulted in death.

There is a standard procedure for treating heat stroke and there is no reason why the solider should die despite the treatment.

Yes, but we must not rule out all probability especially when there was a posting on the story. No sane person would post that without understanding the implication.

The worst is that we gloss over the details. For this case, we should leave no stone unturned .

 

[CoffeeAhSoh]

Agreed. The Straits Times 6 may 2018 did not mention the Hospital name at all.

just curious. why ??? sad.

A Singapore Armed Forces (SAF) Full-time National Serviceman, Private (PTE) Lee Han Xuan Dave, 19, a Guardsman from the 1st Battalion Singapore Guards, was found to display signs of heat injury at about 0835hrs on 18 Apr 2018. PTE Lee had just completed an 8km fast march in Bedok Camp.

An SAF medic attended to PTE Lee immediately to bring down his core temperature. PTE Lee was evacuated to the camp's Medical Centre where body cooling measures and treatment were continued by the SAF medical team. At 0950hrs, PTE Lee arrived at Changi General Hospital (CGH), where he was warded in the Intensive Care Unit since 18 Apr 2018. Unfortunately, PTE Lee's condition did not improve in the ICU and worsened during the hospitalisation. PTE Lee was pronounced dead at 1732hrs on 30 Apr 2018 at CGH.

The Ministry of Defence and the SAF extend their deepest condolences to the family of the late serviceman and are assisting the family in this time of grief.

https://www.mindef.gov.sg/web/porta...leases/article-detail/2018/april/30apr18_news

 

[zhihau]

Agreed. The Straits Times 6 may 2018 did not mention the Hospital name at all.

just curious. why ??? sad.

Psst... like to place a bet? CGH is bao jiak!

 

[CoffeeAhSoh]

You are preempting the enquiry. Unless you were witness to the whole saga all we have at the moment is hearsay.

Deciding when to intervene is a judgement call. Hindsight is always 20/20.

For all you know the fault may lie with the medical profession. I've seen many cases of heat stroke over the years and none of those I witnessed resulted in death.

There is a standard procedure for treating heat stroke and there is no reason why the solider should die despite the treatment.

.

Good point. The Straits Times just answered your last question . See Caption at bottom of Picture :

.

 

[sweetiepie]

KNN this is clearly a case of torture to death putting aside investigation of lapses and sop . torture to death is not acceptable KNN

 

[CoffeeAhSoh]

Psst... like to place a bet? CGH is bao jiak!

.
Agreed , everyone could be barking up the wrong Tree.

COI on the 2 weeks on what happened to CFC Lee inside CGH.

Moral of the story ???

 

[sweetiepie]

KNN sad to say if his parent felt that is an honour to die for saf (which apparently they did) by accepting military funeral then they doesn't deserve any pity at all KNN. Or maybe the deceased himself is very tulan with his parent now then my uncle pity him KNN