The Dark Manipulation of Religion

[nirvarq]

Expecting to receive enlightenment or entry into paradise if one does lots of good deeds is telling God what to do. That the believer has every right to enter heaven because he has earned his way into paradise.

There's no 'Heavens' That Yeshua dude said : The kingdom of God is within. lol........

Club Paradise is close atm due to COVID : Golden Mile Tower, 6001 Beach Road B1-36/42 Singapore 199589

 

[JohnTan]

There's no 'Heavens' That Yeshua dude said : The kingdom of God is within. lol........

I'm quoting the underlying principle of every other religion except for the one Yeshua dude preached.

They exchange good deeds and religious piety for salvation or nirvana.

 

[nirvarq]

I'm quoting the underlying principle of every other religion except for the one Yeshua dude preached.

They exchange good deeds and religious piety for salvation or nirvana.

Yup that's why they hang him lol.........

 

[JohnTan]

Yup that's why they hang him lol.........

His mission was to be hung. Mission accomplished.

 

[nirvarq]

His mission was to be hung. Mission accomplished.

Not really he wants everyone to be hung... he said : To deny the self, (of desires) pick up the cross (bare the burden of others) and follow me. lol...............

 

[glockman]

Here's my guru and his wonderful book.

View attachment 88087

For you, I thought it would be the Bible and the imaginary big man in the sky.

 

[JohnTan]

For you, I thought it would be the Bible and the imaginary big man in the sky.

If you asked me what was important in my life, I wouldn't mention oxygen even though we won't last long without it. It's the same with the Bible.

 

[glockman]

If you asked me what was important in my life, I wouldn't mention oxygen even though we won't last long without it. It's the same with the Bible.

yep, understood. It is fine to take those things for granted.

 

[glockman]

 

[glockman]

This one is for the over-zealous Christians and Muslims.

 

[nightsafari]

offer u an unsolicited summary: misery loves company

not only is it unsolicited, but entirely accurate as well.

 

[nightsafari]

The only scripture we an be assured of that comes from God is the ten commsndments. Do you need anything more than that?

how am I supposed to know? I don't even need the ten commandments although they are useful? I'm not the one defending a weapon of a book.

 

[nightsafari]

Quran stated miracles 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 ...so many i can list out for u. But u tell me all of them not the words of God? Not one but so many examples. And u simply said they are the work or words of humans. So Then u should show me proof or link tat those verses were by some other "famous" people, no? So far u proven none at all. Then we can proceed next level of discussion.

example of self-proclaimed miracles is not proof bro...

Hypocrites, false prophets, shaytan ...all mentioned in the Quran. We were told shaytan our no 1 enemy, no? Prophet never declared himself as "god". No statue or images of him at all. His names only mentioned 5 times. Well, now u twist and said could be the words of shaytan. Hahaha......kelaka lah u. U rather believe in Shaytan than God. Cool....

I believe I mentioned that I don't believe in what I am told. or read. or watch on youtube. I believe in my own personal experience.

If your personal experience includes talking to God, then great. But if not, you're choosing to make believe. That is the definition of what you are doing.

 

[whoami]

example of self-proclaimed miracles is not proof bro...

I believe I mentioned that I don't believe in what I am told. or read. or watch on youtube. I believe in my own personal experience.

If your personal experience includes talking to God, then great. But if not, you're choosing to make believe. That is the definition of what you are doing.

Proclaimed by Allah. And scientist only recently discovered tons of them, no? U need to prove the scientist wrong in order to justify the Quran is BS.

Teres so many other religion tat believe God can talk to them, no? So why dont u accept their god?

 

[nightsafari]

Sure. Then tell me 1400yrs ago how u expect message of God to be spread? U talked abt science, evidence. Even till now teres so many things which already mentioned in the Quran but scientist yet to discover it. Better evidence than scripture? Examples?

Why do you have to believe in a god you can't see, hear, feel, touch, talk to, converse with, listen to, ask for instruction directly? Is there something so wrong with you that he refuses to communicate with you? Only can talk to imam and prophet?

You are literally believing in pieces of paper and fancy writing as if they were god. I personally find that to be incredibly blasphemous if god were to really exist.

Well u told us u saw a ghost? How u know its a ghost? Maybe fickle of ur imagination.

no imagination bro. I saw it with my own eyes. If you see god with your own eyes, please tell me. I really would like to hear about it. But until now, I haven't.

If you see a book with your own eyes, I'm not really interested. I've seen many books in my life too.

Others contradict yours and insist they are books of God too.

U believe in shaytan. Cos tats wat he want u to believe. But i believe in God. Cos mentioned in the Quran Allah cursed Shaytan and will be thrown into hell fire!

here. I don't believe or believe in either shayton god or the Koran. Allah curse Shaytan is a story. Perhaps a story originally written to frighten naughty children. Where's the proof of that happening?

Just fyi....there are 114 chapters in the Quran. Every chapter begin with "In the name of Allah, Most compassionate Most merciful". And watever action we did, we Muslims uttered the following verse "We seek refuge in Allah from the accursed Satan" then followed by "In the name of Allah".

And there is no proof that doing so will bring you to heaven.

 

[nightsafari]

Proclaimed by Allah. And scientist only recently discovered tons of them, no? U need to prove the scientist wrong in order to justify the Quran is BS.

no they didn't bro. you are ownself relating proclamation by Koran to be equal to scientific evidence. it is not. A proclamation can be twisted in many ways.

Teres so many other religion tat believe God can talk to them, no? So why dont u accept their god?

I told you bro... I am not sure. I am not an arrogant person. But I am a confident one. I am confident because I don't lie or make things up. Is a katak confident of being a katak? Of course he is because he is a katak!

But If I am a katak and I say I am a human, then I will have a problem and need all sorts of different proofs to different people to convince them I am not a katak. I honestly think this is a waste of time. I am happy to be a katak.

If I am sure about something, I will say so. If I am unsure, I will say so too. You can call me bodoh, buta or whatever I don't care.

I have not seen direct evidence of god anywhere. nor of shaytan. so I will always say that I am unsure. Why should I follow any books or priests or religions that show me god when they just show me proclamations?? To date, no religion I have seen has shown me god or shaytan. not one. Got people imitating this or that, but I have not really seen god or shaytan.

That is why I say I am agnostic because I cannot know. I am not atheist because I am not certain.

I am certain though of the ghost that I saw. That's all the evidence I have. All ghost or god evidence I have seen is all unscientific. Even my own. I don't dare insist I have proof of ghost because I don't have. I have seen and I am sure of what I saw but that is not proof! For proof, I have to be able to snap my fingers every time and the ghost will show up same spot same time everytime. Anything less if not proof.

Maybe I am hallucinating that time, but I cannot scientifically prove that it was a ghost that I saw.

 

[whoami]

Why do you have to believe in a god you can't see, hear, feel, touch, talk to, converse with, listen to, ask for instruction directly? Is there something so wrong with you that he refuses to communicate with you? Only can talk to imam and prophet?

You are literally believing in pieces of paper and fancy writing as if they were god. I personally find that to be incredibly blasphemous if god were to really exist.


no imagination bro. I saw it with my own eyes. If you see god with your own eyes, please tell me. I really would like to hear about it. But until now, I haven't.

If you see a book with your own eyes, I'm not really interested. I've seen many books in my life too.

Others contradict yours and insist they are books of God too.



here. I don't believe or believe in either shayton god or the Koran. Allah curse Shaytan is a story. Perhaps a story originally written to frighten naughty children. Where's the proof of that happening?

[quoteJust fyi....there are 114 chapters in the Quran. Every chapter begin with "In the name of Allah, Most compassionate Most merciful". And watever action we did, we Muslims uttered the following verse "We seek refuge in Allah from the accursed Satan" then followed by "In the name of Allah".

And there is no proof that doing so will bring you to heaven.
[/QUOTE]


Aaaah. Tats where ur faith counts. Is beyond our capabilities or to imagine how God looks like. Tats why HE sent down the Quran, the final revelation. Tats HIS words for man to tink, ponder and reflect. HE sent prophets and messengers to spread HIS message. They were the chosen One. Not u or me.

Up to u bro if u insist just pieces of papers. I already told if not thru books, scriptures, then how to communicate HIS messages to the masses...all over the world. Every religion preached their religion thru their holy books. My 10 yr nephew also understand. But intellectual guy like u dont? Hmm....

I told me many times. God is invisible. If i did seen one, for sure tat isnt a God. As for u, since u dont believe in God, u should also include ghost,spirits and jinns as well. So wat u saw is actually a fickle of ur imagination.

There may be many books. But only one is the truth. Same like "theres is no God, but One God". Btw i am not here to preach Islam. Whether u are interested or not it doesnt really matter. It only matters when ur heart stop beating.

 

[whoami]

no they didn't bro. you are ownself relating proclamation by Koran to be equal to scientific evidence. it is not. A proclamation can be twisted in many ways.


I told you bro... I am not sure. I am not an arrogant person. But I am a confident one. I am confident because I don't lie or make things up. Is a katak confident of being a katak? Of course he is because he is a katak!

But If I am a katak and I say I am a human, then I will have a problem and need all sorts of different proofs to different people to convince them I am not a katak. I honestly think this is a waste of time. I am happy to be a katak.

If I am sure about something, I will say so. If I am unsure, I will say so too. You can call me bodoh, buta or whatever I don't care.

I have not seen direct evidence of god anywhere. nor of shaytan. so I will always say that I am unsure. Why should I follow any books or priests or religions that show me god when they just show me proclamations?? To date, no religion I have seen has shown me god or shaytan. not one. Got people imitating this or that, but I have not really seen god or shaytan.

That is why I say I am agnostic because I cannot know. I am not atheist because I am not certain.

I am certain though of the ghost that I saw. That's all the evidence I have. All ghost or god evidence I have seen is all unscientific. Even my own. I don't dare insist I have proof of ghost because I don't have. I have seen and I am sure of what I saw but that is not proof! For proof, I have to be able to snap my fingers every time and the ghost will show up same spot same time everytime. Anything less if not proof.

Maybe I am hallucinating that time, but I cannot scientifically prove that it was a ghost that I saw.

Tats wat i meant. Allah said the Quran is HIS words. Watever mentioned in the Quran is the truth. So those miracles mentioned, some already discovered by scientists, proven without a shadow of doubt the Quran is not the word of man but Words of God.

Not sure i accept. But to say the Quran is words of mankind of from shaytan....hmmm....tat one macam child talk.

Precisely. Even if "god" appear before me why should i believe? But u say u only beleive in one if he talk to u, no?

U tink everything can be proven physically meh. Maybe certain meter can prove the existence of entities. We beleive they have their own set of laws too. U tink suka suka they can appear before u? But there is i.e. if u are his Tuan. U dare to take the challenge? I already challenge u. But u tiam tiam. Yes, just a snap of ur finger, he will come to u. No bs. My second time offer to u. Mau?

Alot of thinks mentioned in the Quran yet to be proven by scientist. But it will beproven one day. When, only Allah know best.

 

[nightsafari]

And there is no proof that doing so will bring you to heaven.

Aaaah. Tats where ur faith counts. Is beyond our capabilities or to imagine how God looks like. Tats why HE sent down the Quran, the final revelation. Tats HIS words for man to tink, ponder and reflect. HE sent prophets and messengers to spread HIS message. They were the chosen One. Not u or me.

bro... thank you for your patience with me. but I must take a risk of upsetting you again. When you write that, it sounds to me like someone playing a prank on you. If god really wants you to believe, he will show himself. nothing could be simpler.

Up to u bro if u insist just pieces of papers. I already told if not thru books, scriptures, then how to communicate HIS messages to the masses...all over the world. Every religion preached their religion thru their holy books. My 10 yr nephew also understand. But intellectual guy like u dont? Hmm....

bro... every time you call me intellectual I really don't know what to say or think. I myself think I am simple-minded. If not pushed so hard by parents, will probably be uneducated as well. I rely on things I can easily understand.

I told me many times. God is invisible. If i did seen one, for sure tat isnt a God. As for u, since u dont believe in God, u should also include ghost,spirits and jinns as well. So wat u saw is actually a fickle of ur imagination.

It's not that I don't believe. It's that I am not sure. Not for me to insist. I can have belief, but it is not my place to insist that I am sure or not sure. Between you and me if you ask, I will say I think I am more likely to believe, but I cannot say that I am sure. As for what I saw, it sounds like a description people use for ghost, but I cannot prove it to you. You must believe in me to accept it. That I will NOT ask you to do. I saw something, and I'm sure it looks like what people call a ghost. But I do not have proof.

There may be many books. But only one is the truth. Same like "theres is no God, but One God". Btw i am not here to preach Islam. Whether u are interested or not it doesnt really matter. It only matters when ur heart stop beating.

I don't fully agree. It matters all the time. I find it doesn't make sense to buy insurance only to cover you finally crash a car. Why don't drive properly and maintain car properly all the way. Which is why no matter which book you choose to believe in or not, I hope you find the afterlife you are looking for.

Let me ask you something. Have you ever heard of dog rescuing owner? I include a few example below :

https://dogs.lovetoknow.com/wiki/Incredible_Stories_of_Dogs_Saving_Human_Lives

because dog is not considered clean animal and cannot follow sembahyang, does that mean that when it dies it goes to hell?

 

[nightsafari]

Tats wat i meant. Allah said the Quran is HIS words. Watever mentioned in the Quran is the truth. So those miracles mentioned, some already discovered by scientists, proven without a shadow of doubt the Quran is not the word of man but Words of God.

Sorry bro. We have no proof of this. We have proof that Koran says that Koran is words of Allah, but not of Allah saying that Koran is words of Allah.

The examples you gave me are too incidental. They are not solid enough to be scientific proof.

Not sure i accept. But to say the Quran is words of mankind of from shaytan....hmmm....tat one macam child talk.

I accept your criticism. People have called me simple-minded too. As I said, I cannot be sure of what to believe, so I prefer to say I am not sure which is 100% truth. If I am saying 100% truth that I can be certain of, I will never be afraid.

But I will say what I am 100% sure of.

1. Koran is a book
2. Has to be written by human hand
3. We don't know who or what or anything influence that human hand

I personally believe the simplest explanation is usually most likely. Human hand write usually means human head think. But if god tells human to write, why not Shaytan tell human to write? That is equally likely no?

Precisely. Even if "god" appear before me why should i believe? But u say u only beleive in one if he talk to u, no?

Precisely is exactly it. If something appear before you and say they're god, I won't believe either. Have to prove it. Tell me. If something suddenly appear before you how will you go about making sure it is god and not shaytan or hantu or whatever? I am very interested in what you think of this.

U tink everything can be proven physically meh. Maybe certain meter can prove the existence of entities. We beleive they have their own set of laws too. U tink suka suka they can appear before u? But there is i.e. if u are his Tuan. U dare to take the challenge? I already challenge u. But u tiam tiam. Yes, just a snap of ur finger, he will come to u. No bs. My second time offer to u. Mau?

Let me answer simple things first. I don't know what is going to appear when you snap your fingers. I certainly don't want to see that ghost again. I don't want to experience that again. That's why I tiam tiam.

Alot of thinks mentioned in the Quran yet to be proven by scientist. But it will beproven one day. When, only Allah know best.

when proven then it's proof. until then it's belief. until it's proof, I am not ready to be so arrogant to insist I am right.