Tan Kin Lian - An Opportunist? Let see the Facts

[Goh Meng Seng]

Scroobal,

With due respect, BOTH TKL and TCB drink from the same pool; TCB got his MP position and allowances because he stood under PAP ticket. No matter how "critical" he could be, he was still a PAP MP who will not bite too hard on his masters' hands. On top of that, TCB got his "credibility' because he is a PAP MP.

If TCB is truly against PAP or rather, die hard in speaking up against flawed policies, he would have left PAP once he was no longer fielded as PAP candidate, but he didn't. He waited until May this year then step into Presidential race. It is a calculated move, nothing different from any ex-PAP or present PAP MPs who would resign just to stand as candidate for the Presidential Elections.

I am not in the know of what TCB has spoken about against PAP's bad policies when he was not a MP; did he talk about the flawed FT policy AFTER he was not a PAP MP? Did he talk about the ills of HDB policies? Did he raise issues about the ills of the Public Transport system AFTER he retired as MP but yet, still holding his PAP cadre membership card? I have not heard about all these.

Thus, it is just too "demanding" for you to demand TKL who did not have the platform of MP as TCB to speak up against various bad PAP policies PUBLICLY when he was just a PAP cadre member, just like TCB after retirement. Thus, I do not think it is fair for you to do such comparisons.

For whatever it takes, human beings are dynamic, they change over time. I am not looking for the PERFECT creature, least a human being, to be the President. I am just looking for the best persons within the limited pool of candidates, who could carry out the effective roles of an elected Presidency. I may not even agree to the concept of Elected Presidency but since PAP dictates it that way and that, it was meant to be the last defence line of PAP in the event of it losing parliamentary power eventually, I would like to see how they handle the situation when their intention is used against them.

I just need a person who could perform that role, to put on an effective checks on PAP as the ruling party. Let them have the taste of their own medicine, so to speak. I do not think PAP likes a person like Elected President to check on them; they never wanted to be checked and balanced. EP is just a lame system which they set up for their own future interests, not suppose to be used against them.

Politicians have all the traits that you have raised. Ego (sometimes very huge), manipulative... whatever. But that is not my concerns because I believe in Democracy basically because I believe human beings have flaws and are not perfect. I do not buy that Socratic "Philosophy King" ideal; that is really a Highfalutin Ideal of LKY. There are really no such people around in the world. Democracy is built upon the premise that human beings are not to be trusted in the long run because no matter how good you are, eventually, power will corrupt you. Yes, if you want to know the strength of one's character, just give him power.

Thus, I am not too concerns about the flaws of each candidates but rather, I am more focus on who can perform the role, the job of checks and balances better among the limited pool of potential candidates.

My support for TKL is not solely based on friendship, really. I judge people not only by their friendship, nor by their good characters or superficial being or just by their flaws. Politically, I judge a person on the chances of whether they could perform the roles that they are supposed to do. Their characters, flaws and even "good points" could have become a hindrance to their role. i.e. A person can be really nice guy but it is precisely because he tried too hard to be a nice guy, he may not perform the role of Elected President well.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[Perspective]

You are really acting like PAP. LOL!

You try to smear TKL but in effect, you are trying to tell the whole world WP actually fieded a person who either support TKL or just very naive to be manipulated by TKL? Pick your choice!

Next time, please try to be smarter when you try to smear other people.

Goh Meng Seng

Just what exactly is acting like PAP? It seems you like to use this term for everything that people say or do, be it which side they are. If everything is PAP, so you are saying you are PAP also?

Smearing TKL? You are really delusional. For WP to field a candidate made use of by TKL is better than a party who selected someone used by TKL as leader! LOL

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Perspective,

It is just like Michael Palmer saga. It's catch 22.

Well, you are saying, Huat Ah has been fooled by TKL? Right? I am no fool you know. I supported TKL for what it is and I don't go around to tell others, oh, I have been fooled by TKL! Only fools do that. LOLs!

TKL didn't fool anyone. I supported him not because he manipulated me but I see him as the best person out of the potential candidates. That's all. Crystal clear about that.

But you are saying your Huat Ah is so naive to be fooled and manipulated by TKL? It is not just about Huat Ah anymore. You are putting serious doubts into WP's candidate selection process, dude.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[kukubird58]

hahaha...can't quite understand what is this excitement about EP...
i have a simple question....if the EP refuses to follow the advice of the cabinet and presidential council, can he be removed?

i don't know the answer.......
but the answer is important to deteremine whether ah ter or ah kow makes any difference.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Anyway, the truth is, your Huat ah is no fool. The only fool is you.

Png knows about TKL's intention, crystal clear. He supported TKL for Presidency as a friend and that is why he went on to take the form for him, with or without him around. To claim ignorance of the implication is really a lame excuse... most probably can only fool a 3 year old kid. I am really sorry that you believe in that.

Having said that, for Png to support TKL in his own capacity doesn't mean the whole WP supported TKL. That should be the proper stand to take, not some half bake story and loads of incoherent excuses. Png has been TKL's friend for so long. It is only natural for him, out of friendship, to support TKL. Nothing wrong with that.

But to imply TKL manipulated Png or even fooled him to pick up the forms for him is just too far fetch. One simple question, did Png know in advance that they are going to collect the forms? Perspective becomes dodgy over this question. He tries to portray that TKL played politics in wanting Png to collect the forms. That's really lame smear.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[aurvandil]

I am sure it will revert when old man departs.

I am sure you are aware of the history of office of the current President was created with him in mind. It plays to the Messiah complex that in the PAP's darkest hour of an electoral defeat, he would come swooping in and hold the line until the PAP makes a come back in the following GE.

If the office is captured by a popular independent person who asserts himself, I am not sure that the PAP will have the necessary political capital to convert this back to an appointed position without facing a backlash at the subsequent GE. Unlike the old days, the PAP's political capital these days is somewhat limited.

Also everyone is assuming the PAP is going to be able to fix all of the problems the Opposition raised this GE and the ground is going to be sweet the next GE. Being somewhat over educated in statistics, I am not quite so sure it can actually be done by 2016. This is especially given the cracks which have appeared in the PAP. Having the Elected President as is might therefore not be a bad idea in case the unthinkable happens in 2016.

The PAP's best bet is therefore to magically produce a candidate who can beat both Tan Kin Lian and Tan Cheng Bock. So far, the best they have got is Tony Tan. I am not going to bother to write about Nathan and George Yeo since the outcome if they run is pretty obvious.

I think if Tony Tan runs, he is going to be defeated quite badly. The last time he fought an election, the Soviet Union was still around. He is going to be even more out of touch with the current electorate than Goh Chok Tong in his recent GE 2011 campaign. He has been out of circulation for so long that most voters have no memory of him as a PAP Minister. Also as the President is supposed to be Independent, Tony Tan is going to have to fight this election by himself without the direct visible support of the PAP.

If the PAP wants someone friendly to win the current Presidential Election, they are going to have to ante up a big king card Minister. IMHO, the only two with a half decent chance are:

1) Teo Chee Hean
2) Khaw Boon Wan

Anything less would be a slaughter. If Nathan runs, I think there is a good chance he might suffer the embarassment of a two term incumbent President who loses his election deposit.

On disqualification, the pressence of two independent candidates makes it tough to play this card. If only one was running, it might still be possible to pull it off. To disqualify both so that a PAP friendly canidate can win unopposed would be too much of a stretch politically. If I remember correctly, Tan Cheng Bock is vulnerable on the disqualification front. The Chuan Hup group he was Chairman of barely made the $100 mil capital requirement. I think there were some question marks as there was via a capital injection and the company was not above $100 mil mark for the entire period when he was Chairman. if they disqualify one but leave the other one in, the supporters of the disqualified candidate are going to be pissed. Their votes would then most likely go to the surviving candidate as a protest against the PAP.

 

[Perspective]

Like I say, you are confused. Now you say I doubt WP also you have an issue. If you have something personal against me, just say it.

Or straighten your brain and build your party instead of spending time on this gibberish. Or more imptly make up to the family whose sole breadwinner died because of you. Do something meaningful and not show no remorse.

 

[Unrepented]

Being an apolitical individual, I had the same impression when I read the article.

1. Why cant TKL pick up the forms himself?
2. Has he no other friends or relatives who can pick up the forms for him?

Ok, say he had legitimate reasons and the choice was incidental...

3. Why did he mention "my friend from the WP"?
4. "A man" picked up the forms for Mr Chiam, did Mr Chiam even made any reference to who the man was and his background? Obviously not, at least I didnt happen to read it.

Maybe I should join the "fools" club as well for having the same perception.

But to imply TKL manipulated Png or even fooled him to pick up the forms for him is just too far fetch. One simple question, did Png know in advance that they are going to collect the forms? Perspective becomes dodgy over this question. He tries to portray that TKL played politics in wanting Png to collect the forms. That's really lame smear.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[Seee3]

About a year before tkl was removed, someone told me that he got into big shit because of something he said to the press and old man was very angry - something related to the economy. However, my memory failed me. Any bro got any idea?

 

[scroobal]

If Png had any sense, he would know or realise that he was a mere pawn. The target was to use the WP name. In branding world it is a guerrilla marketing. There is no such thing as in doing it in his personal capacity within the realm of politics. Png was picking up forms for EP - an elected political office. Png was not picking up TKL's medication for his ailments or cakes for his birthday party. Either Png is gullible or he is smitten by TKL. If he did wil full knowledge of WP, he has some explaining to do.

Anyway, the truth is, your Huat ah is no fool. The only fool is you.

Png knows about TKL's intention, crystal clear. He supported TKL for Presidency as a friend and that is why he went on to take the form for him, with or without him around. To claim ignorance of the implication is really a lame excuse... most probably can only fool a 3 year old kid. I am really sorry that you believe in that.

Having said that, for Png to support TKL in his own capacity doesn't mean the whole WP supported TKL. That should be the proper stand to take, not some half bake story and loads of incoherent excuses. Png has been TKL's friend for so long. It is only natural for him, out of friendship, to support TKL. Nothing wrong with that.

But to imply TKL manipulated Png or even fooled him to pick up the forms for him is just too far fetch. One simple question, did Png know in advance that they are going to collect the forms? Perspective becomes dodgy over this question. He tries to portray that TKL played politics in wanting Png to collect the forms. That's really lame smear.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[scroobal]

You are right. The CPF issue was quite a battle as it was becoming a mutiny among the PAP MPs. I am not sure if lots of kids would appreciate that he allowed them to pursue an education and eventually a career that they might not be possible under the old rules. He was also the one who was whinging and whining about the NMP scheme which he thought was unconstitutional.

He string of work in charity can fill a few pages.

Not difficult to get 2 accomplishments by TCB which he thought had the greatest impact on Singaporeans. He had persuaded the Government to agree on 2 important issues, one on the use of CPF for tertiary education and two that HDB allow free parking on Sundays and public holidays to encourage better social interaction. Both were accepted after long debates.

Wah..the carpark one is good. I did not know that he was the one who championed for it. Else I would have to pay for Sundays and public holidays carpark fees man...Thanks to him!

 

[Varuna]

He string of work in charity can fill a few pages.

That is true. I see letters of thanks and compliments from individuals and charitable organisation in reognition of his kindness and assistance. I think there is no doubt his works and contribution to the society behind the scene have made him well connected and appreciated by many. His website is quite informative and I can get a good sense of how he is like.

 

[karmabear]

Well I met TCB personally. All I can say is that this is a feisty old man. He is not a PAP man but neither is he an opposition supporter. He got his own mind and he is not afraid to voice them. For me, that is enough. Because Nathan has been such a no-show during his presidential tenure, the prospect of a loud mouth EP is very appealing to me. TCB is sure to ruffle a few fellows in the PAP and probably quite a few in the opposite camp as well. He is truly a maverick and it sure would be fun to watch the drama unfold.

 

[kingrant]

The way I see the thread is this.

The TS is calling TKL less than honest.

TCB was a PAP MP. He could have toed the line and be popular within PAP as a team player. But he did not, and became known as a rebel.

TKL never had a PAP MP role to play up to, yet he remained silent on many past issues. In his private capacity, as a private citizen, he had all the privileges and rights to speak up but he didnt. Not least, as the TS said, because he had been a Branch sec for many years and pulling many more levers for his own gains while as CEO NTUC Income, which was actually the largesse of his PAP association.

TKL now is now dishonestly nuancing more executive powers into the EP role than is constitutionally designed. TCB relies on his past reputation as a dissenting public servant able to take his public service experience to a higher role. TCB has not displayed any dishonest traits so far; what you see is what you get. The same thing cannot be said of TKL.

Thus, on balance, who would turn out to be an opportunist?

 

[scroobal]

This is a quote from Tan Kin Lian in his blog.

"I also like to focus on another matter, namely the investment policy adopted in the
investments of our financial assets. Should our two wealth funds (i.e. GIC and Temasek)
adopt an active investment approach (to increase the return on our assets) or to adopt a
conservative approach (i.e. avoid speculation on market timing and asset selection)?
My personal preference is to adopt a conservative approach in the investment of our assets
and to use the influence of the President’s office to achieve this goal. I recognise that there
may be limitation in the power of the President on this matter.

This is a classic example of manipulating the ignorant. From comments that you see on various blogs that many people are not familiar with the role of president and what the constitution states in terms of the president's role. He must have realised it. When caught out by the press he conveniently stated the "I have no further comment" when asked to elaborate or expand the on the quote.

Maybe TKL can tell Singapore how he is going to influence GIC and Temasek. Why stop at investment. Why not use the Office of President to influence defence policy, law and order, housing, health, education, etc. All these are not covered in the powers of the President.

 

[aurvandil]

Why stop at investment.

The role of the President is to safegaurd the reserves.

The role is kind of meaningless if you have Ho Ching squandering away the reserves at the back via bad investment decisions.

Btw you previous tip appears to be correct and an exit date for Ho Ching has finally emerged. With the lack of any kind of proper accounting, no one will ever know just how much money was lost.

In approving the appointment of a key appointment holders, the President would be exercising due dilligence if he asks pointed questions about what the person would do once he/she is in office. For example suppose we get a new head for Temasek. As an act of due dilligence, the President might ask how the person would run Temasek Holdings. If the person represnts something which causes concern to the President (e.g. I am going to do aggressive high risk high return investment), then the President should exercise his power and not approve the appointment.

 

[n1etzche]

does TKL intend to dump all the monies into UST, just like he has done for his own?

This is a quote from Tan Kin Lian in his blog.

"I also like to focus on another matter, namely the investment policy adopted in the
investments of our financial assets. Should our two wealth funds (i.e. GIC and Temasek)
adopt an active investment approach (to increase the return on our assets) or to adopt a
conservative approach (i.e. avoid speculation on market timing and asset selection)?
My personal preference is to adopt a conservative approach in the investment of our assets
and to use the influence of the President’s office to achieve this goal. I recognise that there
may be limitation in the power of the President on this matter.

This is a classic example of manipulating the ignorant. From comments that you see on various blogs that many people are not familiar with the role of president and what the constitution states in terms of the president's role. He must have realised it. When caught out by the press he conveniently stated the "I have no further comment" when asked to elaborate or expand the on the quote.

Maybe TKL can tell Singapore how he is going to influence GIC and Temasek. Why stop at investment. Why not use the Office of President to influence defence policy, law and order, housing, health, education, etc. All these are not covered in the powers of the President.

 

[tioliaohuat]

Fucking scroobal is either up to no good, 1st, he try to put csm down, "now" tkl, next?
Could he a PAP mole? Something smells fishy here.

 

[jesus]

That is true. I see letters of thanks and compliments from individuals and charitable organisation in reognition of his kindness and assistance. I think there is no doubt his works and contribution to the society behind the scene have made him well connected and appreciated by many. His website is quite informative and I can get a good sense of how he is like.

Ha ha, this is standard protocol for all PAP MPs. They receive thanks and bouquets from community orgs, business associations, charity groups, and what have you on a regular basis. No wonder some say Singaporeans are daft.

 

[kukubird58]

hahaha...all the hot air but nobody can answer the simple question...
"can the EP be removed if he refused to follow the advice of the cabinet/presidential council???"

i think we are giving too much credence to the post of EP....thinking that a strong independent minded person
can redefine the role of EP on his own.
it doesn't matter if you are yes or no man.....
the rules are pre-defined and you have to play along with it......

give you an analogy......if you want to play football or any other game, you follow the rules......
you cannot said you are your own man and you do things your own way.....
if not happy, you don't join in the game.