Tan Kin Lian - An Opportunist? Let see the Facts

[scroobal]

I am glad that we having this discussion. In the past, there no avenues or forums that allowed free discussions of this sort. It provides an excellent opportunity to gauge the level of maturity, the amount of information that is important for citizens to make informed choices that are freely available and importantly how available but limited information is interpreted.

I do like how you arrive at your logic. TKL was not elected as a PAP MP therefore he is good and not tainted. Is that what you mean?

Hahaha, you do realise there is a big distinction between an elected Member of Parliament, and a party branch secretary/cadre/member? One is an official Public Servant, and the other?

You are not making much sense here. Don't muddy facts with poor logic.

 

[jesus]

I am glad that we having this discussion. In the past, there no avenues or forums that allowed free discussions of this sort. It provides an excellent opportunity to gauge the level of maturity, the amount of information that is important for citizens to make informed choices that are freely available and importantly how available but limited information is interpreted.

I do like how you arrive at your logic. TKL was not elected as a PAP MP therefore he is good and not tainted. Is that what you mean?

My point is when you talk about public service you have to make suitable comparisons. Your claim that Tan Kin Lian has done nothing in terms of public service as compared to Tan Cheng Bock is therefore not logical because Tan Cheng Bock is a MP and Public Servant, while TKL never was.

However if you care to look from 2008 onwards till today. The level of public service between the two men becomes apparent. TKL's role in the minibond saga cannot be disputed. But where was Tan Cheng Bock since stepping down in 2006?

As for being tainted. I just like to point out as well that just because we do not hear anything about Tan Cheng Bock (thus far) does not mean this ex-PAP MP is therefore squeaky clean, no? :o

 

[scroobal]

I see where you are coming from. You are saying that Tan Kin Lian did not have an opportunity to speak out as he did not have a forum like Parliament. Is your point therefore that if he had been elected PAP MP he would have spoken out.

My preference is not have anyone in PAP or associated with PAP standing for Presidency. I also prefer that it is not elected and that Office of President is not sullied by politics. I do recall that Sheares and Wee added alot of grace and respectability to it.

On Tan Kin Lian, he drank from the PAP cup until he retired. We talking about 30 years of no stop sipping. Tan Cheng Bock ran his own practice and was well regarded by the rural folks in farmland Singapore and had garnered a following.

My point is when you talk about public service you have to make suitable comparisons. Your claim that Tan Kin Lian has done nothing in terms of public service as compared to Tan Cheng Bock is therefore not logical because Tan Cheng Bock is a MP and Public Servant, while TKL never was.

However if you care to look from 2008 onwards till today. The level of public service between the two men becomes apparent. TKL's role in the minibond saga cannot be disputed. But where was Tan Cheng Bock since stepping down in 2006?

As for being tainted. I just like to point out as well that just because we do not hear anything about Tan Cheng Bock (thus far) does not mean this ex-PAP MP is therefore squeaky clean, no? :o

 

[scroobal]

I thought I address this separately. I did not want to bring this up. Why don't you write to the Tan Kin Lian and ask him to get a stat declaration that he did not advice his clients to buy mini-bonds. I did not mention what Larry Havercamp revealed about the excesses and abuses of local Insurance which is not condoned in developed countries. There is only one man who had been present longest in the Insurance scene.

By the way, if there was an elected position of Ombudsman for Mini-Bond, I am sure we all agree who the suitable category. If there was an ombudmans for Insurance even wild horses would not able to drag him into the post voluntarily. He will know why.

However if you care to look from 2008 onwards till today. The level of public service between the two men becomes apparent. TKL's role in the minibond saga cannot be disputed. But where was Tan Cheng Bock since stepping down in 2006?

 

[jesus]

I see where you are coming from. You are saying that Tan Kin Lian did not have an opportunity to speak out as he did not have a forum like Parliament. Is your point therefore that if he had been elected PAP MP he would have spoken out.

My preference is not have anyone in PAP or associated with PAP standing for Presidency. I also prefer that it is not elected and that Office of President is not sullied by politics. I do recall that Sheares and Wee added alot of grace and respectability to it.

On Tan Kin Lian, he drank from the PAP cup until he retired. We talking about 30 years of no stop sipping. Tan Cheng Bock ran his own practice and was well regarded by the rural folks in farmland Singapore and had garnered a following.

Whether Tan Kin Lian would have spoken out as an elected MP is irrelevant. He was never an MP so this is a moot point. If we really want to compare the two men, perhaps it is better to compare them from 2007 onwards, when both have retired from their respective careers.

My preference too is not to have anyone associated with PAP. But this may not be realistic because of the absurd eligibility requirements - which meant that any eligible candidates would more or less have benefited from the system or were from the establishment. This is reality.

As much as we should remain skeptical of those who were ex-PAP, we should not forget to train our eyes forward towards the future. We should therefore support anyone who possess the courage to step forward and break with the PAP and prove their worth with deeds and not mere words.

 

[scroobal]

I thought that was the point that you were making - that he was not given the opportunity. What is your reasoning besides the motherhood statements such as to judge a person by his deeds which everyone would agree.

Maybe you could list the deeds that TKL and TCB did so we can make an informed choice. It will also address your concern about comparing apples to apples.

Whether Tan Kin Lian would have spoken out as an elected MP is irrelevant. He was never an MP so this is a moot point. If we really want to compare the two men, perhaps it is better to compare them from 2007 onwards, when both have retired from their respective careers.

My preference too is not to have anyone associated with PAP. But this may not be realistic because of the absurd eligibility requirements - which meant that any eligible candidates would more or less have benefited from the system or were from the establishment. This is reality.

As much as we should remain skeptical of those who were ex-PAP, we should not forget to train our eyes forward towards the future. We should therefore support anyone who possess the courage to step forward and break with the PAP and prove their worth with deeds and not mere words.

 

[jesus]

I thought that was the point that you were making - that he was not given the opportunity. What is your reasoning besides the motherhood statements such as to judge a person by his deeds which everyone would agree.

Maybe you could list the deeds that TKL and TCB did so we can make an informed choice. It will also address your concern about comparing apples to apples.

You are assuming he would have wanted the opportunity, to be a MP. This may not be a fair or valid assumption, and may even be akin to building a straw man from which to tear the man down.

 

[RandomNexus]

Imagine, he retires and suddenly we are looking at Mother Theresa. The fact that he has managed to bring NSP, SDP and WP together and used their names to declare his candidacy shows what an opportunist and manipulator that this guy is. WP which has been cautious unlike SDP and NSP, finally fell into his trap by asking one of the WP senior chaps to collect the nomination forms. Imagine a retiree is too busy to collect nomination forms.

Bro Scro,

I am not at ease that he gets a WP chap to collect the forms. It is aimed as a signal to give the perception that he is not from PAP camp. Whereas all the while, he has been with the PAP camp in his life and career. If anything, the perception if one is to read deeply, suggests that he is out to garner some political points from the WP thing. It is a badly conceived political move. Also he is caught offguard by Tan Cheng Bock's move which gains the early publicity.

I am ok with folks wanting to champion the rights of Singaporeans, fighting on issues in the political sphere. I am just curious why would one want to go and fight in the elected presidency. The elected presidency is a restricted post, with supposedly non-executive powers, but in reality it does have "executive" powers. I think one should find it hard to draw the line between custodial and executive powers. Custodial powers in its sense, will have some reference to executive powers if the executive conflicts with the custodial. The elected presidency has not properly worked out these norms and procedures. Even if we are to consider the elected presidency with some form of "executive" powers, its areas of influence is narrowed to very specific issues on use of reserve and appointment of civil servants and overseeing some sensitive laws which have been specified ie race and religion and the Internal Security Act.

Here is the gist.

Hence anybody wanting to champion and fight on common issues on life and bread-and-butter, would be best advised to run as candidates as MPs rather than go for this elected presidency. If you truly want to fight on issues, then you should go and fight in the general elections to be a MP. In this case, why did Tan Kin Lian not fight to be a MP or join a political party? Nor does Tan Cheng Bock. Both of them are now championing on issues which i find disconcerting for them to use the elected presidency as a platform. I support their endeavour to champion these issues, in fact welcome them. I like Tan Cheng Bock tremendously and admire for him willing to stand out for his beliefs when he was a MP. Yet why use the elected presidency? In fact, once you are president, you are legally bound not to have any chance to champion, fight or govern on such issues, as this is not what the elected presidency is meant for. I think the elected presidency has tremendous prestige and of course, outrageous pay, and in symbolic terms, ranks over the executive. If anything, it is to be seen as a fight for a job with better pay? - hey not bad, one can still claim to fight for the commoners on issues that matter. Hence this could be the reason these folks go for elected presidency instead of being a MP. I personally would think if one reduce the pay of president dramatically by say 99.9% and suggest one should run out of conscience and public interest, I wonder whether people still step forward?

PAP thought they were smart to enact all kind of rules to restrict to those who could run to only come from a small select group. So it can create the wayangs which they like to show. They forgot what if there are to be rising factions within them, which will happen when the strong political centre weakens? It is now perhaps happening. How they are going to resolve this? If supposedly Singaporeans elect a president with strong "executive" and oppositionist tendencies, we are talking about political impasses and constitutional disputes, which are nothing good for Singapore. Ong Teng Cheong was the first to try to work out this system when he did not heed the hidden intentions of this elected presidency. The elected presidency is only meant when the opposition takes over power as government, and this is used to check and maybe make life difficult for the executive.

Like it or not, I am uncomfortable with the folks standing to fight in this elected presidency. I guess there is no precedent, and we just await and see. One wonders who will get the support of PAP camp - it could be a kiss of death though :-p

I still prefer Wee Kim Wee type of presidency, and more than anyone, he did much to unite the hearts of Singaporeans. We should revert to this type of presidency.

 

[scroobal]

Bro, agree with your comments.

My preference is that it reverts to an appointment rather than an elected office. There are many good people out there who do a sterling job as custodians of the office without getting into petty politics. Both Tan Cheng Bock and Tan Kin Lian if they are concerned should carry the fight in parliament. I am aware that Tan Kin Lian is afraid because what they did to Tang who was also a PAP cadre member. They would go all out because they have to send a clear signal to all PAP senior position holders.

I am really upset with TKL because he is giving the impression that it is an executive role. Thats when I realised that he has come to conclusion that SIngaporeans are not familiar with the role. As a serious individual, you would not make such comments or create such an impression. Imagine this guy was the head of all grassroots in Marine Parade and now people want to treat him as saint after his retirement.

Like it or not, I am uncomfortable with the folks standing to fight in this elected presidency. I guess there is no precedent, and we just await and see. One wonders who will get the support of PAP camp - it could be a kiss of death though :-p

 

[scroobal]

I give up bro, you are totally clueless. He was one of those who was slated for MP but was knocked by old man. His chased this position all his life. It is common knowledge though I acknowledge that it did not appear the Straits Times.

I have always encouraged the young to be politically aware so that they won't land in the position that you are in. You not only can't connect the dots, you suggesting that we are assuming there are dots. You are applying a scientific and logical approach but not all variables are present and furthermore where they are present you are unable to assign the correct value. The penny drop for some the moment I mentioned branch secretary. The moment parents know that there is a pedophile in the kindergarden, the enrol will stop. The one parent who does not know the meaning will still will be judging by deeds.

Watch even TOC is not going to endorse him or support him. There must be a material contribution and there has been none from him. Trying to give the impression that the office has executive function is making a fool of all of us.

You are assuming he would have wanted the opportunity, to be a MP. This may not be a fair or valid assumption, and may even be akin to building a straw man from which to tear the man down.

 

[Debonerman]

People who believe Tan Kin Lian is a good man listen up!

Even the old fart Lee Kuan Yew refused the distasteful prospect of Tan Kin Lian becoming a made PAP Mistress Proper to suck his cock!

 

[kukubird58]

You are assuming he would have wanted the opportunity, to be a MP. This may not be a fair or valid assumption,

hahaha....Jesus, welcum to planet earth.....
u got a point but here..... when the demi god says so....it must be so.
(although many times his BS is exposed by an uneducated kuku.)

 

[aurvandil]

My preference is that it reverts to an appointment rather than an elected office.

It is not too late to do this. They won the election 81 to 6.

They can always convene an emergency session and do this before the due date of 31 Aug 2011.

 

[jesus]

I give up bro, you are totally clueless. He was one of those who was slated for MP but was knocked by old man. His chased this position all his life. It is common knowledge though I acknowledge that it did not appear the Straits Times.

Hang on, now you are saying TKL for not being endorsed by old man to make MP is therefore a less credible type, which is the thrust of your entire thread.

This is a contradiction from you. Because by extension of your logic, someone who is soundly endorsed by old man, e.g. Mah Bow Tan, must then be necessarily more credible to you. I did not realise you actually give credence to old man's endorsement. :o

 

[rover2sg]

When Tan Kin Lian was in charge of Income, Uncle noticed that everything was signed under his name. He takes credit for all the good things and when there were complaints he directed others to answer. He never gave credit to his staff.

The result was that I refused to have anything to do with Income until he left.

God help Singapore if he ever by miracle become President. He might changed the Istana into Tan Kin Lian's palace.

 

[scroobal]

There was quite a protracted debate within the younger generation of leaders who were prepared to go back to the old model. There was even a formal debate in cabinet but old man was still around. This was after the 1st walk-in when Nathan got in without a contest. When the second walk-in occurred, they made the decision to raise the salary substantially. I am sure it will revert when old man departs.

It an embarrassment when EP is not contested.

It is not too late to do this. They won the election 81 to 6.

They can always convene an emergency session and do this before the due date of 31 Aug 2011.

 

[scroobal]

Just list the accomplishments of both TKL and TCB so we can have the apple to apple comparison that you desire. Others van also add on the list for both if you are not aware. Except for mini-bonds, it will be good to see what he has done.

I am sure you must have more than mini-bonds.

Hang on, now you are saying TKL for not being endorsed by old man to make MP is therefore a less credible type, which is the

thrust of your entire thread.

This is a contradiction from you. Because by extension of your logic, someone who is soundly endorsed by old man, e.g. Mah Bow Tan, must then be necessarily more credible to you. I did not realise you actually give credence to old man's endorsement. :o

 

[sirus]

NTUC stands for NEVER TRUST UNION CHIEF.
ha...ha...

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

You are really acting like PAP. LOL!

You try to smear TKL but in effect, you are trying to tell the whole world WP actually fieded a person who either support TKL or just very naive to be manipulated by TKL? Pick your choice!

Next time, please try to be smarter when you try to smear other people.

Goh Meng Seng

You go support the "maverick" Tan Kin Lian all you want. Other things are none of your business.

 

[Varuna]

Just list the accomplishments of both TKL and TCB so we can have the apple to apple comparison that you desire. Others van also add on the list for both if you are not aware.

Not difficult to get 2 accomplishments by TCB which he thought had the greatest impact on Singaporeans. He had persuaded the Government to agree on 2 important issues, one on the use of CPF for tertiary education and two that HDB allow free parking on Sundays and public holidays to encourage better social interaction. Both were accepted after long debates.

Wah..the carpark one is good. I did not know that he was the one who championed for it. Else I would have to pay for Sundays and public holidays carpark fees man...Thanks to him!