Speak Dialects, you feel tribal ! Speak mandarin, it will break unity!

[Hakka Tiow]

but he had insisted that my stand is dialect could be replace by mandarin. am i surprise? no. because he love to put words into people mouth. come up with allegation without any proof.

scroobal is not credible. just take not of that.

Bro Char, you heard of hustlers or hustling or not?:p

 

[scroobal]

I won't fault CJK for not revealing his dialect, there is no requirement to announce your dialect prior to joining this thread. I did follow up with his posts. He is only in agreement with learning Mandarin but not elimination of dialect, in fact he was against that.

The point that I am trying to make is that many in Singapore automatically think that Mandarin is their mother and he took 300 over posts to actually state what his mother tongue is. Its called conditioning. Believe me, he being a Khek, Cantonese, Hokkein, or even Mexican has no bearing. This is the number one chap in this forum championing Mandarin in a multicultral society but still cannot accept that its not the mother tongue of 99% of Singaporeans.

Some years ago, an elite sino centric singapore group whose members were scholars educated in Ivy League/Oxbridge decided to engage other races over a number of issues. This group's stand amongst other things were the protection of Chinese heritage, culture and language in modern singapore. This group also felt that the PAP and their MPs did not represent their views. This groups has also released publications.

What the other races cannot fathom when they come into contact with this elite group is that this group is blind to the fact that Mandarin is not their mother tongue. The group members had become highly competent in Mandarin that any suggestion otherwise was an assault on their ediface. That again is conditioning. You can take a kid out of Toa Payoh, but you can't take Toa Payoh out of him even after 4 years in cambridge.

I would love to see hokkein plays streaming from redifussion (figuratively of course) in the afternoon out of a household, the Teochew having an opera contest and showing their best to the others at one of the HDB town centres. Just as Punjabi kids, hindi kids going for language classes, would like to see similar classes in the various dialects.

Now you know what conditioning does to a mind with average IQ. They actually think they can fly because some old man staying in the same place for the last 50 years told them so. And by the way, his grandson avoids the "Mandarin" mother tongue in a dsylexic manner.

If it walks like a duck ..... now you know the similarity between Circle Chap and old man.

 

[char_jig_kar]

mandarin is not the language which the tao de ching is written..... the language is old chinese.....you see the same chinese characters and only that has not changed, your argument leads to the conclusion that we only need to learn chinese characters and we can learn it in any language but still be in connection with our chinese roots...i.e. a korean can use the same characters to read in korean and a japanese too but in your muddled analysis, all of them will be in connection the chinese root as long as they can read the characters in their own language. an englishman and malay can do the same thing once you transliterate the symbols into their language

and let me repeat again, the mandarin corruption led to a different version of tao te ching and thats why one cannot rely only on mandarin....pls respond to this

tao de jing is written in chinese language. as long as we could read and understand the meaning of the chinese characters, we could read it.

could the jap or korean understand the chinese characters? if they could they could read it too.

so whats the problem, issue here? the issue is you, insist that only dialect could do the job in linking to chinese roots thousand of years ago. and mandarin cant do the job.

but i had stated, people could read and recite the dao de jing (chinese classic written thousand of years ago) in mandarin.

what is the problem then? no more problem. mandarin could be use to connect to chinese roots thousand of years ago.

 

[char_jig_kar]

The point that I am trying to make is that many in Singapore automatically think that Mandarin is their mother and he took 300 over posts to actually state what his mother tongue is. Its called conditioning. Believe me, he being a Khek, Cantonese, Hokkein, or even Mexican has no bearing. This is the number one chap in this forum championing Mandarin in a multicultral society but still cannot accept that its not the mother tongue of 99% of Singaporeans.

Some years ago, an elite sino centric singapore group whose members were scholars educated in Ivy League/Oxbridge decided to engage other races over a number of issues. This group's stand amongst other things were the protection of Chinese heritage, culture and language in modern singapore. This group also felt that the PAP and their MPs did not represent their views. This groups has also released publications.

What the other races cannot fathom when they come into contact with this elite group is that this group is blind to the fact that Mandarin is not their mother tongue. The group members had become highly competent in Mandarin that any suggestion otherwise was an assault on their ediface. That again is conditioning. You can take a kid out of Toa Payoh, but you can't take Toa Payoh out of him even after 4 years in cambridge.

I would love to see hokkein plays streaming from redifussion (figuratively of course) in the afternoon out of a household, the Teochew having an opera contest and showing their best to the others at one of the HDB town centres. Just as Punjabi kids, hindi kids going for language classes, would like to see similar classes in the various dialects.

Now you know what conditioning does to a mind with average IQ. They actually think they can fly because some old man staying in the same place for the last 50 years told them so. And by the way, his grandson avoids the "Mandarin" mother tongue in a dsylexic manner.

If it walks like a duck ..... now you know the similarity between Circle Chap and old man.

Most of us, our mother tongue is not Mandarin. So??? That doesn't take away the importance and value of this language.

we need a universal language among the chinese no? so whats wrong to use mandarin to do that job then?

LEE KUAN YEW IS THE PROBLEM OF DIALECT AND MANDARIN. ALTHOUGH HE PAY LIP SERVICE IN IMPROVING MANDARIN STANDARD, THERE'S NO SOLID POLICY IN BACKING IT UP. ITS ALWAYS LIP SERVICE. GET IT? LEE KUAN YEW IS THE PROBLEM FOR BOTH DIALECT AND MANDARIN.

 

[char_jig_kar]

Bro Char, you heard of hustlers or hustling or not?:p

yeap. all kind of smokes, spinning, sleight of hand here.

 

[denzuko1]

Dear all,

This is a reply from CJK to Man On The Street and I believe is his stand on Mandarin and Dialect.

Speak Mandarin will break up local unity? What kind of screw up logic is that? Mandarin unite all Chinese dialect group.

Nothing wrong to speak Mandarin. What is wrong with LKY, is that, he is trying to eradicate dialect. He's like saying, the dialect our grandfather using, its shit. He has got no respect for dialect.

Don't get confuse with the issue.

 

[scroobal]

Most of us, our mother tongue is not Mandarin. So??? That doesn't take away the importance and value of this language.

That tells alot. Have you seen Ramseth Post in this thread. Its captures the context of Mandarin well. No one disputes its value but know its purpose.

If you keep equating Mandarin with mother tongue, you are only deluding yourself. Know your roots, your culture and the language that binds it.

 

[denzuko1]

This is a reply from SamuelStalin to my message. Indicating foresight from LKY to make sure everyone speaks Mandarin.

My ancestors and I are from the Fujian province in China and I am most proud of being a Hokkien, even more so after lancheowman's revelation on our closeness with old Chinese.

What LKY did right was to emphasize English at that time from the 60s when America and Europe particularly Great Britain, were strong, and China was communist. However it is noticeable that the teaching of Mandarin your local curriculum through the years have always been faithfully following China's lead in Simplified Chinese, which cuts down on the illiteracy rate and makes the language even easier for Chinese to grasp. The teaching of English has been simplified too for the same reasons, and so it is ultimately up to the student and his or her talent to express himself or herself proficiently in either or both languages.

Correspondingly as China has now entered several phases of liberalization and is now globally on the rise, it makes more sense than ever that your local Chinese could communicate with and understand the mainlanders with the Simplified Chinese they have learnt, unlike the Chinese of Malaysia, Hong Kong and Taiwan who are still stuck in Traditional Chinese.

LKY is man of great foresight.

PS In Singapore you can converse in Mandarin and various Chinese dialects openly, but in Hong Kong you hardly hear anyone uttering Hokkien or Teochew, possibly for fear of brutal discrimination and being cast out from the mould. This is how blatantly racist you Cantonese people are. Thank God LKY is not Cantonese that would have probably interfered with his objectivity, flexibility and foresight.

 

[denzuko1]

This is rebuttal from CJK to Samuelstalin. CJK has been consistently critical of LKY's move on eradication of dialects.

English as 2nd language is suffice. Its 97% Asian population here. To impose English as 1st language in a country 97% Asian population, if thats not tyranny and discrimination against Asian, I don't know what is.


He's not a man of foresight. If he is, he wouldn't have use English as 1st language. He should see that English as 2nd language is suffice. Right now, Singapore Chinese has got racial identity crisis because of his bias against Asian languages.

Hong Kong is different from Spore. There are different dialect group here, as compare to Hong Kong, which is predominately cantonese.

 

[char_jig_kar]

That tells alot. Have you seen Ramseth Post in this thread. Its captures the context of Mandarin well. No one disputes its value but know its purpose.

If you keep equating Mandarin with mother tongue, you are only deluding yourself. Know your roots, your culture and the language that binds it.

Again and again, you jump into conclusion.

WHEN DID I EQUATE MANDARIN WITH MOTHER TONGUE??? WHEN?????

I DID NOT EQUATE MANDARIN WITH MOTHER TONGUE.

 

[denzuko1]

Most of us, our mother tongue is not Mandarin. So??? That doesn't take away the importance and value of this language.

we need a universal language among the chinese no? so whats wrong to use mandarin to do that job then?

LEE KUAN YEW IS THE PROBLEM OF DIALECT AND MANDARIN. ALTHOUGH HE PAY LIP SERVICE IN IMPROVING MANDARIN STANDARD, THERE'S NO SOLID POLICY IN BACKING IT UP. ITS ALWAYS LIP SERVICE. GET IT? LEE KUAN YEW IS THE PROBLEM FOR BOTH DIALECT AND MANDARIN.

Dear CJK,

I am sure Scroobal is with no intention of against the use of Mandarin as the main mode of communication. You can see from his earlier posts that he has acknowledged its importance. He is like you against the eradication of Dialect as the price of unifying under one Mandarin.

Further to that I am sure he agrees with you that LKY is the problem. He did mention that LKY's intention was to isolate a certain dialect association to strengthen his position and support.

 

[char_jig_kar]

Dear CJK,

I am sure Scroobal is with no intention of against the use of Mandarin as the main mode of communication. You can see from his earlier posts that he has acknowledged its importance. He is like you against the eradication of Dialect as the price of unifying under one Mandarin.

Further to that I am sure he agrees with you that LKY is the problem. He did mention that LKY's intention was to isolate a certain dialect association to strengthen his position and support.

but u cant deny that he likes to jump into conclusion, making all kind of statements on me which are totally not true.

his message, he always sneak in some wild allegation with no proof, and lies. thats how scroobal behaving here. isn't that lacking of credibility?

 

[denzuko1]

but u cant deny that he likes to jump into conclusion, making all kind of statements on me which are totally not true.

his message, he always sneak in some wild allegation with no proof, and lies. thats how scroobal behaving here. isn't that lacking of credibility?

Well, I don't want to jump to conclusion that quickly. For one thing, the thread has expanded to 26 pages long and it is a hassel to trace postings. I am having this problem myself. I believe the argument starts with this:

Originally Posted by lancheowman
its politics la... mandarin gives them a way to control the chinese populace

give who a way to control the chinese populace? don't tell me other countries, they don't have a official language in the country?? so whats wrong for China to have one official spoken language???

and followed by

give your uncle and your mother .....give who somemore

 

[scroobal]

So to learn Mandarin, that too could connect to chinese roots. Why go talk down about Mandarin as a language, unable to perform the job in keeping one's contact with chinese roots??

This is one good example of you equating mandarin with mother tongue. You expect a Teochew speaker to connect to his chinese roots via Mandarin.

Like I said, know the value of Mandarin and its purpose. Its great for facilitating communication between dialogue groups.

Stop equating the 2. One is not a replacement for the other.

 

[char_jig_kar]

This is one good example of you equating mandarin with mother tongue. You expect a Teochew speaker to connect to his chinese roots via Mandarin.

Like I said, know the value of Mandarin and its purpose. Its great for facilitating communication between dialogue groups.

Stop equating the other 2. One is not a replacement for the other.

look. the key word is chinese root. not dialect root. lancheowman is saying that ONLY dialect could connect to chinese root, 1000 of years ago, and mandarin cant do the job. i disagree with him on that.

that doest mean that i think mandarin COULD REPLACE DIALECT. I NEVER EVER SAY THAT OR AGREE WITH THAT. BECAUSE WHY BOTHER TO BASH LKY ERADICATION OF DIALECT, IF DIALECT COULD BE EASILY REPLACE BY MANDARIN? THERE'S SOMETHING ABOUT DIALECT WHICH MAKES IT UNIQUE AND CANT BE REPLACE BY MANDARIN.

SO WHICH PART OF IT U DON'T UNDERSTAND?

AND ALSO, WHY DO U KEEP SAYING I DON'T KNOW WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT WHEN I TOLD U MY MOTHER TONGUE IS MANDARIN AND TEOCHEW?? ISN'T TAT ARROGANCE AND UNREASONABLE OF U TO ASSUME I DON'T KNOW WHAT IS THE DEFINITION AND MEANING OF MOTHER TONGUE???

 

[scroobal]

So to learn Mandarin, that too could connect to chinese roots. Why go talk down about Mandarin as a language, unable to perform the job in keeping one's contact with chinese roots??

Again and again, you jump into conclusion.

WHEN DID I EQUATE MANDARIN WITH MOTHER TONGUE??? WHEN?????

I DID NOT EQUATE MANDARIN WITH MOTHER TONGUE.

See the contradiction. First you think that Mandarin can connect one to their roots despite the fact that it is not their mother tongue. Now you change your mind.

I really think you don't know what you are writing.

Like I said all along, nobody is denying the value of Mandarin. Only you and old man has ever suggested that Mandarin can replace mother tongue in connecting with the roots.

Such a dishonest person you are and a disgrace to all Han Chinese. Bear in mind, its a direct quote from you. When you tell lies, you must have a memory the size of an elephant to keep track of your lies.

This discussion ends here.

 

[char_jig_kar]

See the contradiction. First you think that Mandarin can connect one to their roots despite the fact that it is not their mother tongue. Now you change your mind.

I really think you don't know what you are writing.

Like I said all along, nobody is denying the value of Mandarin. Only you and old man has ever suggested that Mandarin can replace mother tongue in connecting with the roots.

Such a dishonest person you are and a disgrace to all Han Chinese. Bear in mind, its a direct quote from you. When you tell lies, you must have a memory the size of an elephant to keep track of your lies.

This discussion ends here.

What is Chinese root? Does it restricte to just one's clan, or dialect group? NO. CHINESE ROOT MEANS THE SUM TOTAL OF CHINESE CULTURAL WEALTH. NO???

SO ARE U SAYING THAT ONLY DIALECT COULD CONNECT TO SUM TOTAL OF CHINESE CULTURE? AND MANDARIN CANT DO THAT?

IF DIALECT COULD CONNECT TO SUM TOTAL OF CHINESE CULTURE, I DON'T SEE WHY MANDARIN CANT DO THE JOB TOO.

NOW, WhERE'S THE CONTRADICTION HERE?

WHEN DID I SAY, MANDARIN COULD REPLACE DIALECT? LET ME AGAIN REPEAT, NO!!! IF MANDARIN COULD REPLACE DIALECT, WHAT IS THERE TO ARGUE ABOUT LKY ERADICATION OF DIALECT???

YOU ARE BEING BOTH RETARD, AND DISHONEST TO SAY THAT MY STAND IS MANDARIN COULD REPLACE DIALECT.

 

[char_jig_kar]

msg deleted.

 

[denzuko1]

Mandarin could connect to Chinese root, thats my stand.

So, am I equating Mandarin with mother tongue? I don't know why thats is equating mandarin with mother tongue.

Just to clarify, by saying "Chinese roots", do you mean Chinese as a whole or going into individual dialect group?

 

[lnchwmn_only]

See the contradiction. First you think that Mandarin can connect one to their roots despite the fact that it is not their mother tongue. Now you change your mind.

I really think you don't know what you are writing.

Like I said all along, nobody is denying the value of Mandarin. Only you and old man has ever suggested that Mandarin can replace mother tongue in connecting with the roots.

Such a dishonest person you are and a disgrace to all Han Chinese. Bear in mind, its a direct quote from you. When you tell lies, you must have a memory the size of an elephant to keep track of your lies.

This discussion ends here.

well said, dishonest and disgrace are the best words to describe si kar ghua, let me oso add....disingenuous and disturbing