SIngapore - We Won't Be Held Hostage By Malaysia And Indonesia

[jubilee1919]

We are all adults here & we all have our own plans. I doubt that my perspective is unique. It's funny that you chose the word "selfish". That word has a negative connotation. I would use it to describe the PAP's policies. While I would call my ideas self preservation

You may think I sound miserable but I'm just stating the facts as I see them. I'm being honest & when I talk to my kakis, many share my thoughts

Yes, you and your kakis will reinforce each others hatred of the PAP and they can never do anything good for Singapore in your eyes. Sigh. You are not the only one that think in this manner. There are enough PAP haters here and you are in good company.

As for me, I am one of the opposition that do agree with some of the things they do which I believe is good for Singapore. I may not like the PAP but that does not cloud my judgement.

I say you were being selfish because you are only thinking for yourself and not about Singapore.

 

[johnny333]

Yes, you and your kakis will reinforce each others hatred of the PAP and they can never do anything good for Singapore in your eyes. Sigh. You are not the only one that think in this manner. There are enough PAP haters here and you are in good company.

As for me, I am one of the opposition that do agree with some of the things they do which I believe is good for Singapore. I may not like the PAP but that does not cloud my judgement.

I say you were being selfish because you are only thinking for yourself and not about Singapore.

I might despise LKY but I wouldn't say Hate. I'm more angry with the 60% because they've allowed LKY to do what he has done.
I don't know why you use the word selfish just because I advocate that Spore cut its defence spending

I don't stand to gain anything directly if Spore cuts it's spending on defence. Everyone should benefit from a peace dividen I've been through NS & know all about the wayang & waste that goes on in the army.

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

I don't think you understand the discussion. Are you saying you'd be indifferent if an army invaded Singapore and took over? I don't think you understand that women will be raped, houses burnt down, the treasury stolen, and other atrocities of war.

Our discussion here is about governance, where the PAP has gone wrong, defence spending, self-sufficiency, and related topics. The PAP has gone very wrong -- that I agree. But you're going off on a wild tangent.

No, I'm just being realistic. Sporeans are just digits, we only matter as working units. In any conflict it is the poor that will always suffer. The elites will the ones somewhere safe in the rear or overseas.

If we ever get taken over, Spore will just be under new management instead of the PAP
Isn't this what LKY did under the Japanese

 

[Kohliantye]

I don't think you understand the discussion. Are you saying you'd be indifferent if an army invaded Singapore and took over? I don't think you understand that women will be raped, houses burnt down, the treasury stolen, and other atrocities of war.
Our discussion here is about governance, where the PAP has gone wrong, defence spending, self-sufficiency, and related topics. The PAP has gone very wrong -- that I agree. But you're going off on a wild tangent.

Sorry to have literally barged into your very fruitful discourse. Your exchange has pitted two very intelligent and loyal people against one another and all in the search of true knowledge. Off course, patriotism also came into the picture as well.

I honestly enjoyed the good exchange between two very able and intelligent sparring partners for I learn more and hence further improve upon my basic knowledge. Thank you sirs.

May I have your kind permission to contribute my piece for I know that both of you will want me to progress further in my knowledge of the subject under discussion. I am prepared to receive brickbats from you both.

In the event of my beloved homeland, poor Singapore, being invaded, I will NOT be indifferent or stand still. This is my SUMPAH or PROMISE.

I will defend it to the best of my ability despite whosoever was to be held responsible. Joining the invading forces as any sort of employee would be out of question...........hehehehe

If our womenfolk are raped, our houses burnt down and our treasury looted and emptied - no problems. The first move would be to annihilate the culprits and this would be done to the best of our ability with the fullest co-operation of our people. The poor are always those that are willing to die for their land for they cannot become air or boat people.

Whatever happens, will become issues to be tackled by the United Nations just like how it did to the Yugoslav leader and his General. Just one example for there are many that you both know about.

So, please don't worry too much for we have a World Body to rely upon, although it may be "impotent", as can be seen from the way it is controlled by its Permanent Members.

Remember, General Tomoyuki Yamashita, the Tiger of Malaya had to pay for the atrocities committed by his soldiers.

Step by step we will arrive there.

Insofar as mismanagement of the state is concerned, that would best be left for our independent courts or tribunals to decide.

Everyone is accountable to the people - time will make the people open their slumbering minds.

Have a good day sirs.

 

[eatshitndie]

contrary to naysayers here, sg is very well planned and managed. i spent slightly more than a week last month in sg and was given a tour from keppel to tuas. the future bodes extremely well for sg, although she is pretty well off now. keppel port facilities in the present area will gradually shift to tuas. this will present amazing new opportunities, both from a real estate point of view and continuing engine for growth and development in years to come as a result of the freeing up of a valuable prime spot. it's not just a spot. it's a large tract of old land that will reshape and enlarge sg's glistening skyline, which already is magnificent from where the marina is. this will mean more jobs, more asset enhancements, more investments and better quality of living in the harbor front area. commercial shipping will be docked and anchored to the west, leaving the east coast more open, less polluted, and more romantic and visibly appeasing for exploited maids to rent or set up tents under palm trees to enjoy the sea breeze and to earn higher incomes from lowly paid ejaculation-challenged foreign workers on sundays. it's a win-win for all, except the lazy sinkie without a decent retirement.

 

[jubilee1919]

I might despise LKY but I wouldn't say Hate. I'm more angry with the 60% because they've allowed LKY to do what he has done.
I don't know why you use the word selfish just because I advocate that Spore cut its defence spending

I don't stand to gain anything directly if Spore cuts it's spending on defence. Everyone should benefit from a peace dividen I've been through NS & know all about the wayang & waste that goes on in the army.

I don't think you understand the discussion. Are you saying you'd be indifferent if an army invaded Singapore and took over? I don't think you understand that women will be raped, houses burnt down, the treasury stolen, and other atrocities of war.

Our discussion here is about governance, where the PAP has gone wrong, defence spending, self-sufficiency, and related topics. The PAP has gone very wrong -- that I agree. But you're going off on a wild tangent.

Initially my last response to him was a long winded piece. I deleted it and gave a brief reply. I have arrived at the conclusion that he has the knack of changing tack and inserting something new into the discussion all the time. For instance, he talks about the PAP and my last reply to him mentioned the PAP. As you can see, now he talks about despising LKY for the very first time.

How then is it possible to discuss any issue with someone who keeps doing that? Just because in NS he experienced wayang and waste at his level (which could be as an armskoteman or platoon commander), that has convinced him that the whole PAP government is all wayang and wasting of resources.

I won't want to waste my time and effort to continue debating with someone like him. See how he keeps asking why I said he is selfish, despite me explaining it a few times?

And finally he states, "I'm just taking the perspective of an innocent bystander who has very little to lose if Spore falls. If Malaysia decides to invade tomorrow how many Sporeans would actually suffer?"

That is not being selfish? And the question in itself makes me think what kind of man can say such a thing as though it is very inconsequential. I am truly shock at such callousness.

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

Initially my last response to him was a long winded piece. I deleted it and gave a brief reply. I have arrived at the conclusion that he has the knack of changing tack and inserting something new into the discussion all the time. For instance, he talks about the PAP and my last reply to him mentioned the PAP. As you can see, now he talks about despising LKY for the very first time.

I get what you mean. He has no focus at all. That's why i said he was going off at a wild tangent. Now he's saying a foreign invasion force is substitutable for the bad PAP, and cites LKY's internship under the Japanese in 1944 as an example.

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

Mr Kohliantye,

Thank you for your post.

I hope johnny reads your post at least 3 times and reflects deeply on what you said. First as a human being, and second as a Singapore resident (if he is still one).

In the event of my beloved homeland, poor Singapore, being invaded, I will NOT be indifferent or stand still. This is my SUMPAH or PROMISE.

I will defend it to the best of my ability despite whosoever was to be held responsible. Joining the invading forces as any sort of employee would be out of question...........hehehehe

If our womenfolk are raped, our houses burnt down and our treasury looted and emptied - no problems. The first move would be to annihilate the culprits and this would be done to the best of our ability with the fullest co-operation of our people. The poor are always those that are willing to die for their land for they cannot become air or boat people.

 

[Kohliantye]

contrary to naysayers here, sg is very well planned and managed. i spent slightly more than a week last month in sg and was given a tour from keppel to tuas. the future bodes extremely well for sg, although she is pretty well off now. keppel port facilities in the present area will gradually shift to tuas. this will present amazing new opportunities, both from a real estate point of view and continuing engine for growth and development in years to come as a result of the freeing up of a valuable prime spot. it's not just a spot. it's a large tract of old land that will reshape and enlarge sg's glistening skyline, which already is magnificent from where the marina is. this will mean more jobs, more asset enhancements, more investments and better quality of living in the harbor front area. commercial shipping will be docked and anchored to the west, leaving the east coast more open, less polluted, and more romantic and visibly appeasing for exploited maids to rent or set up tents under palm trees to enjoy the sea breeze and to earn higher incomes from lowly paid ejaculation-challenged foreign workers on sundays. it's a win-win for all, except the lazy sinkie without a decent retirement.

[/B

Your short-term stay of one week here really kept you in touch with all the happenings in our country - east coasts maids, tents, etc,,,

You are truly great and admirable.

If only you can be a little longer with us, it would have been better for we could learn a great deal from your expertise.

I would love to bring you to Chomp Chomp for satay.

 

[eatshitndie]

I would love to bring you to Chomp Chomp for satay.

i stopped by chomp chomp on a saturday morning, but it was closed. :( ended up at the serangoon gardens exchange for kopi and kaya toast. there was another food court near chomp chomp, but it was small, narrow and extremely crowded on saturday.

 

[johnny333]

Sorry to have literally barged into your very fruitful discourse. Your exchange has pitted two very intelligent and loyal people against one another and all in the search of true knowledge. Off course, patriotism also came into the picture as well.

I honestly enjoyed the good exchange between two very able and intelligent sparring partners for I learn more and hence further improve upon my basic knowledge. Thank you sirs.

May I have your kind permission to contribute my piece for I know that both of you will want me to progress further in my knowledge of the subject under discussion. I am prepared to receive brickbats from you both.

In the event of my beloved homeland, poor Singapore, being invaded, I will NOT be indifferent or stand still. This is my SUMPAH or PROMISE.

I will defend it to the best of my ability despite whosoever was to be held responsible. Joining the invading forces as any sort of employee would be out of question...........hehehehe

If our womenfolk are raped, our houses burnt down and our treasury looted and emptied - no problems. The first move would be to annihilate the culprits and this would be done to the best of our ability with the fullest co-operation of our people. The poor are always those that are willing to die for their land for they cannot become air or boat people.

Whatever happens, will become issues to be tackled by the United Nations just like how it did to the Yugoslav leader and his General. Just one example for there are many that you both know about.

So, please don't worry too much for we have a World Body to rely upon, although it may be "impotent", as can be seen from the way it is controlled by its Permanent Members.

Remember, General Tomoyuki Yamashita, the Tiger of Malaya had to pay for the atrocities committed by his soldiers.

Step by step we will arrive there.

Insofar as mismanagement of the state is concerned, that would best be left for our independent courts or tribunals to decide.

Everyone is accountable to the people - time will make the people open their slumbering minds.

Have a good day sirs.

I've been accused of bringing irrelevant opinions in my responses. So I will try to keep my responses short & simple.
While our neighbours are focusing on their citizen, Spore is outspending our neighbours & buying expensive hardware. We are not talking about a defenceless Spore but a militarily powerful Spore.

According to the the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI), "Singapore is now the fifth-largest arms importer in the world, bested only by some obvious behemoths—China, India and Pakistan—plus South Korea. Singapore accounts for 4% of the world's total spending on arms imports. Its defence spending per head beats every country bar America, Israel and Kuwait. This year $9.7 billion, or 24% of the national budget, will go on defence"

Some of the hardware we have acquired include
(a) Formidable frigate
(b) F-15SG
(c) G-550 replacement
(d) S-70 helicopters
(e) Submarines - 2nd hand hulls but upgraded with 1st hand weapons/electronics
(f) Leopard 2 tanks - 2nd hand use but upgraded with 1st hand weapons/armour
(g) KC-135s - cheap 2nd hand tankers

So don't tell me that our women folk will be raped & our men slaughtered.

 

[johnny333]

And finally he states, "I'm just taking the perspective of an innocent bystander who has very little to lose if Spore falls. If Malaysia decides to invade tomorrow how many Sporeans would actually suffer?"

That is not being selfish? And the question in itself makes me think what kind of man can say such a thing as though it is very inconsequential. I am truly shock at such callousness.

Obviously you have not been reading past threads on NS & the sentiments of the forummers. Many have admitted that they would not help the PAP or the foreigners.
If given the choice they would simply leave Spore.

That is exactly what is happening today. There are queues of people trying to leave.

 

[eatshitndie]

While our neighbours are focusing on their citizen, Spore is outspending our neighbours & buying expensive hardware. We are not talking about a defenceless Spore but a militarily powerful Spore.

you do have a point about the very overt over-expenditure on military hardware, with respect to percentage of the national budget.

sg is still in the conventional school of defence thinking, not thinking outside and beyond the traditional box and not pushing the envelope in terms of innovation. she is afterall, a follower, not a leader. she can choose to be one, but decides to take the easy route of out-spending thy neighbor on available "latest" hardware and tech in a peaceful but escalated arms race. power projection and force multiplication, albeit in the confines of geographic smallness, are benchmarked according to hardware acquired to the likes of moderate regional powers such as israel, turkey, south korea and in some strangeways pakistan in terms of threat and geo-politics.

here is an opportunity for her to go where no cuntry has gone before. automate, robotize, intelligimate and take it to the next level... self-innovate and create new thinking and technologies around limited manpower resource, advanced communications, state-of-the art propulsion and power systems, light yet harder than steel materials, new armor, multi-purpose mobile weapon systems, stealth, new gen sensors, best of breed information systems, etc. the overall objective is to achieve maximum deterrence with minimum cost and reliance on outside suppliers. all st tech do today is copy others, improve marginally and out-price the competition. deja vu cheena.

do something like gangnam style, oops sorry, gundam style. if sci-fi points to air-sea-land-space transforming drones as potential superiority weapon systems for the far future, try going there with r&d. no venture, no gain. nothing tried, nothing learned. :p

 

[roadrunner]

..While our neighbours are focusing on their citizen, Spore is outspending our neighbours & buying expensive hardware. We are not talking about a defenceless Spore but a militarily powerful Spore.

Even in the 70s SAF were touting themselves as having the best & most well armed 10 men section in any infantry company in the region, this was before the time of massive spending on military hardware. When RSAF bought AWACs, neighbouring countries complained like mad & raised a stink, asking why SG needed AWACs when even in SG airspace, they can see what's happening across the border. The reason is simple, SAF is there as a deterrent to anyone having ideas but if it really came to a fight, i wouldn't trust the majority of SAF soldiers becos even in warmongering countries like US & UK, the number of friendly fire cases is high.

Bro Johnny333, you raised an important fact that "While our neighbours are focusing on their citizen", if SG is not careful & there is disquiet amounting to anger in the population, no matter how well armed SAF is, you're going to end up with a rotten apple in the barrel syndrome.

 

[ionzu]

That is not being selfish? And the question in itself makes me think what kind of man can say such a thing as though it is very inconsequential. I am truly shock at such callousness.

isn't it obvious? you are likely to be wealthier and more successful than jon333.

if the issue of income inequality isnt addressed more aggressively in singapore, the divide will grow bigger and views increasingly polarized between the haves and have-nots like J3 and urself.

the have nots will eventually vote in a government that will cut defense spending in favour of social spending.

 

[jubilee1919]

Even in the 70s SAF were touting themselves as having the best & most well armed 10 men section in any infantry company in the region, this was before the time of massive spending on military hardware. When RSAF bought AWACs, neighbouring countries complained like mad & raised a stink, asking why SG needed AWACs when even in SG airspace, they can see what's happening across the border. The reason is simple, SAF is there as a deterrent to anyone having ideas but if it really came to a fight, i wouldn't trust the majority of SAF soldiers becos even in warmongering countries like US & UK, the number of friendly fire cases is high.

Bro Johnny333, you raised an important fact that "While our neighbours are focusing on their citizen", if SG is not careful & there is disquiet amounting to anger in the population, no matter how well armed SAF is, you're going to end up with a rotten apple in the barrel syndrome.

I agree with your point that we need to carry a big stick as a deterrent againtst those who think Singapore is a walk in the park to invade. As for the other point about our SAF soldiers, I did put up a thread comparing the commandos of Malaysia, Indonesia and Singapore. I am skeptical that they have the will and desire and patriotism needed to defend the country.

I disagree with the statement, "While our neighbours are focusing on their citizens." Which of these countries are focusing on their citizens? Name me one country.

 

[jubilee1919]

isn't it obvious? you are likely to be wealthier and more successful than jon333.

if the issue of income inequality isnt addressed more aggressively in singapore, the divide will grow bigger and views increasingly polarized between the haves and have-nots like J3 and urself.

the have nots will eventually vote in a government that will cut defense spending in favour of social spending.

I agree that there is an increasing gap between the haves and have-nots. The government is fully aware of this and if they do not do anything about it, chances are they will lose their majority. They are initiating many programs helping those who are facing financial difficulties. How well they perform in this regard will be seen after 2016 elections. For example, someone just told me he had a tooth extraction and it cost him less than $18.00 and that includes antibiotics under the CHAS scheme recently launched. I was very surprised as I know a tooth extraction is usually about $70 -$100.

 

[Leongsam]

I agree that there is an increasing gap between the haves and have-nots.

What's wrong with having a gap between the haves and the have nots?

Isn't that what we all strive for on a daily basis... to do better and earn more than everyone else?

The majority of the activities that mankind indulge in are for the purpose of getting ahead of the pack. The whole education system is designed to do just that. So is the promotions system in most organisations.

 

[jubilee1919]

What's wrong with having a gap between the haves and the have nots?

Isn't that what we all strive for on a daily basis... to do better and earn more than everyone else?

The majority of the activities that mankind indulge in are for the purpose of getting ahead of the pack. The whole education system is designed to do just that. So is the promotions system in most organisations.

There will be big problems for any ruling party should they not find the right balance between the rich, the middle-income earners and the poor. There always will be the haves and the have-nots in a society. The government is doing what they can with schemes to help the higher middle-income, the middle-income and the poor due to the intense global competition that is burdening the population.

 

[whoami]

Some of the hardware we have acquired include
(a) Formidable frigate
(b) F-15SG
(c) G-550 replacement
(d) S-70 helicopters
(e) Submarines - 2nd hand hulls but upgraded with 1st hand weapons/electronics
(f) Leopard 2 tanks - 2nd hand use but upgraded with 1st hand weapons/armour
(g) KC-135s - cheap 2nd hand tankers

So don't tell me that our women folk will be raped & our men slaughtered.

Its good and wise to prepare for war in peace time. Buying those weapons could sent two strong signals. One is to tell the enemies we are ready for any future attacks. So dont try anything funny. But at the same time ur neighbours may interprete differently. There will be an arm race.

Next...even by acquiring such costly sophisticasted weapons, we hope its not juz for show. Its not cheap. End of the day, the one who man/operate it must have the WILL to fight and protect the citizens/country!

I leave u guys to ponder over it....