-
IP addresses are NOT logged in this forum so there's no point asking. Please note that this forum is full of homophobes, racists, lunatics, schizophrenics & absolute nut jobs with a smattering of geniuses, Chinese chauvinists, Moderate Muslims and last but not least a couple of "know-it-alls" constantly sprouting their dubious wisdom. If you believe that content generated by unsavory characters might cause you offense PLEASE LEAVE NOW! Sammyboy Admin and Staff are not responsible for your hurt feelings should you choose to read any of the content here. The OTHER forum is HERE so please stop asking.
RTS rapid transit system linking Johor and Singapore (MASTEEL)
- Thread starter shctaw
- Start date
Once a while, it is good to get sexcited. Good for the heart and morale. But don't pin too much hope on it.
You so notti... *pinch your backside*
Life is more pleasant if we get excited (in a positive way) over little things.
Yes.... At least there is some talk. At least this project is not just Johor alone. It involves KL side also. Rather major one. Biggest transport thing to happen in SE Asia in history.
And at least it involves Singapore. I don't think that PM Lee will be so reckless to start something so big and expect it to fail so easily. No guarantees but at least the stake is high here to play it right.
Seeing how much land is involved for the HSR station in Jurong, and how they chased a big country club away, it can't be something so simple to write off..... unless of course the Malaysian side decides to call off the whole project along the way. I hope not.
MOU is not just simply a piece of paper.
That would be trivialising an important and crucial step in this (or any) agreement.
HSR will be there, eventually.... My bet is 2026.
I hope to be proven wrong and it will be half that time instead.
That would be trivialising an important and crucial step in this (or any) agreement.
HSR will be there, eventually.... My bet is 2026.
I hope to be proven wrong and it will be half that time instead.
PM Lee can only do so much and he certainly cannot control what Malaysia does or does not and there was news of alternative plans for the land if the HSR gets called off, this is Singapore.
Sure, but Tekkun is Malaysian and he knows what he is talking about, he is talking about MOU in the context of Malaysia where it really is a simple piece of paper, even a contract is a simple piece of paper in Malaysia.
You are absolutely right about the MOU thingy.
Even former agreements signed between the 2 countries can be challenged many years later.
Perfect example was during Dr M's time, MY insisted that the raw water price to SG should be increased with the present time, despite the price was fixed and clearly spelled out in the agreement.
MY forced SG to review the price and sign a new agreement to MY's advantage!
You better try not going around pinching other people's backside.
You pinch a woman's backside she can scream molest and you can get into serious trouble..
But worse trouble will be when you pinch a man's backside and he shout molest!
There was no price review on the original agreements but there was a 1990 supplementary agreement to the 1962 agreement at a higher price for supply of water beyond the original agreed amount.
Johor has not built sufficient potable water treatment plants to meet its needs, such that now it is drawing treated far larger amount than provided for in the agreements. Please refer to the appended articles below.
Singapore-Malaysia water agreements
http://eresources.nlb.gov.sg/infopedia/articles/SIP_1533_2009-06-23.html
Malaysia lost its right to review water price after choosing not to do so in 1987: Shanmugam
http://news.asiaone.com/news/singap...price-after-choosing-not-do-so-1987-shanmugam
Singapore supplying more potable water to Johor due to severe dry weather
http://www.straitstimes.com/singapo...able-water-to-johor-due-to-severe-dry-weather
In addition the Johor government has not been planing and building its basic infrastructure fast enough to meet new demands. Hence we have been seeing more water supply cuts, flooding, electrical outages, water pollution in recent years. While there is an oversupply of mid to high end housing by private developers, the basic infrastructure and low end housing are in deep under supply.
"There was no price review on the original agreements but there was a 1990 supplementary agreement to the 1962 agreement at a higher price for supply of water beyond the original agreed amount'.
That was resulted from MY's insistence on the price review despite a formal agreement signed!
And what is the 1990 Agreement?
It a lengthy supplementary being added to the original Agreement in 1962.
The 1990 Agreement
This was signed on 24 November 1990 between the Public Utilities Board (PUB) of Singapore and the Johor state government. It was supplementary to the 1962 pact and would also expire in 2061. A separate document was signed on the same day by the governments of Malaysia and Singapore to guarantee adherence to the agreement.
Under this agreement, Singapore was allowed to construct a dam across Sungei Linggui to facilitate the extraction of water from Johor River, with Johor setting aside about 21,600ha (216km2) of land for the project. Singapore agreed to pay RM320 million as compensation for the permanent loss of use of the land and its associated revenue, in addition to a premium of RM18,000 per hectare (per 10,000m2) and an annual rent of RM30 for every 1,000ft2 (per 92.9m2) of the land. The cost of building and maintaining the dam would be borne by Singapore.
In return, Singapore could buy (from Johor) treated water generated by the new dam. This would be over and above the 250mgd of raw water that it was allowed to draw from Johor River under the 1962 agreement. The price of this additional supply would be calculated based on a fixed formula: the weighted average of Johor's water tariffs plus 50% of the surplus from the sale of this water by PUB to its consumers after deducting Johor's price and PUB's cost of distribution, or 115% of the weighted average of Johor's water tariffs, whichever was higher.
This agreement was a follow-up to the memorandum of understanding (MOU) signed on 28 June 1988 between the two countries' prime ministers at the time, Lee Kuan Yew for Singapore and Mahathir Mohamad for Malaysia. The signing of the MOU was hailed as a breakthrough in Singapore-Malaysia water relations, the culmination of six years of difficult negotiations.
Its all about getting SG to do all the works and at the same time getting lots of $$$$ from SG!
I was just pointing to you that there was no revision to the original agreement. The revised pricing was on a new supplementary agreement. Once an agreement is signed, both sides will have to abide.
However I agree with your view that MY may challenge the terms in the HSR project, as they have learnt their lesson on the water agreements. This is perhaps the reason why there are no firm announcements on HSR time line and technical details, and only Malaysia and China are so keen on it. In summary, the terms may not be favourable to SG and MY is using it as a lever to extract more investments and trade agreements with China.
I dunno what you may have experienced in Malaysia but whether Tekkun is Malaysian or African, has no bearing. Last I checked, Malaysia still has rule of law. May not be perfect but if compared to many other neighbouring countries (except Singapore), you are better off here than elsewhere.
I agree with you that RTS should have more impact for JB (and its property values) than HSR.
Once the RTS is linked to Singapore's MRT system, that will mean that the entire network of trains from the island will have direct access into JB.
Those uncles aunties brothers sisters who have not been to JB for donkey years will now have the opportunity to see the transformation of JB.
I reckon at least 50% of HDB dwellers have not stepped into JB for at least 10 years and have no clue what is happening just across the border.
The impact will be VERY significant. IMHO too.
Billions of 1MDB money gone just like that and Najib says he didn't take it. It's some donation from UAE?
After that, we suddenly heard he sacked his own ministers!So what is a piece of contract in Malaysia? It's just a piece of paper indeed!
Not sure how far it will stretch....
I doubt RTS will change much. There are already direct buses and trains into Johor now. If Singaporeans are interested, they will have already used these modes of transportation. RTS will just be another option. Maybe just slightly more will go to JB? But I doubt it will be a significantly huge increase.
The problem as I see it, is the long queues at peak hours, and maybe safety issue? We can't change that. With RTS, it may ease traffic at the causeway just by a little bit. But you're likely going to get swarms of people in the MRT and RTS stations. Also, the stamping of passports at both sides is still required. Once you reach there, you still need a car to move around Johor. So RTS doesn't solve much.
The Johor authorities seem more interested in the HSR than RTS. Surprisingly, RTS is on a much smaller scale. SG is getting it ready by 2019. But till today, no news from the Johor side. Kept saying it's some Bukit Chagar site. But then....?
Not sure how far it will stretch....
I doubt RTS will change much. There are already direct buses and trains into Johor now. If Singaporeans are interested, they will have already used these modes of transportation. RTS will just be another option. Maybe just slightly more will go to JB? But I doubt it will be a significantly huge increase.
The problem as I see it, is the long queues at peak hours, and maybe safety issue? We can't change that. With RTS, it may ease traffic at the causeway just by a little bit. But you're likely going to get swarms of people in the MRT and RTS stations. Also, the stamping of passports at both sides is still required. Once you reach there, you still need a car to move around Johor. So RTS doesn't solve much.
The Johor authorities seem more interested in the HSR than RTS. Surprisingly, RTS is on a much smaller scale. SG is getting it ready by 2019. But till today, no news from the Johor side. Kept saying it's some Bukit Chagar site. But then....?
It should be 1 border check, not twice.
Mark my words, RTS will be biggest catalyst (if it ever happens..).
We can only hope the authorities get it planned ASAP.
There has been so much talk about this but nothing much has progressed.
Similar threads
