Puteri Harbour Community

[sgcount]

Sgcount, Medini is not so pessimistic.
At least it is not total loss, worst case scenario, it is subsidy. You still own it at the end of the day.

thanks, I needed that reminder!

 

[sgcount]

Hey Bros out there, especially those with experience in property investing in SG....

Is there any more sense for one to invest in SG properties in today's climate? Assuming won't kena ABSD?

Someone mentioned before it's a "no brainer" if can, invest in SG if possible, rather than Iskandar. What's the rationale? SG properties stronger? But now still expensive, despite reports saying prices have steadily dropped in the last 1-2 years.

 

[FHBH12]

Hey Bros out there, especially those with experience in property investing in SG....

Is there any more sense for one to invest in SG properties in today's climate? Assuming won't kena ABSD?

Someone mentioned before it's a "no brainer" if can, invest in SG if possible, rather than Iskandar. What's the rationale? SG properties stronger? But now still expensive, despite reports saying prices have steadily dropped in the last 1-2 years.

In JB, tenants are difficult to find and property policies are haphazard. JB properties are more for those who want to experience an alternative (e.g. cheaper and more relaxing) lifestyle, particularly for the lower- to medium-tier middle class, who are increasingly squeezed by the rising cost of living and declining quality of life. But the worsening traffic jam and increasing levy will slow this trend.

SG properties are more a secure investment in the mid to long term, but only for the upper-tier middle class and above in view of ABSD and TDSR. Rising interest rate and slower influx of foreigners do not bode well for property prices in SG in the short term.

 

[Stimpy]

Sometimes, see your essays v chaim liddat. Today, shall give some tips on encouragement ~a, about new launch at Med is 8++psf after discounts. Dun say i say one..:p

No, not rich. I didn't buy cash, I got a mortgage as inflation tends to make initial sums look laughably small. I did however, take out the whole sum from DBS savings and transfer to CITI MY, leaving it in sgd currency. I recently sold a London property that I bought in 09.

Yeah, I saw the rising Psf prices for newer condos.
I don't think it means anything. Rental (for now) will be non-existant, which will make resale hard to achieve.

But, it's ok - I never expected to sell prior to 2025 and am happy to keep it as an asset
Indefinitely. I've bought a flat in the uk as an investment property recently, confident in that one's ability to pay itself off.

 

[Tekkun]

No, not rich. I didn't buy cash, I got a mortgage as inflation tends to make initial sums look laughably small. I did however, take out the whole sum from DBS savings and transfer to CITI MY, leaving it in sgd currency. I recently sold a London property that I bought in 09.

Yeah, I saw the rising Psf prices for newer condos.
I don't think it means anything. Rental (for now) will be non-existant, which will make resale hard to achieve.

But, it's ok - I never expected to sell prior to 2025 and am happy to keep it as an asset
Indefinitely. I've bought a flat in the uk as an investment property recently, confident in that one's ability to pay itself off.

Wow...at 2009, London must be selling at GBP 400psf Zone 2. Now it is worth at least GBP 800 to 1000.
Which Borough you invested this time? I have one near Wapping too.

 

[Stimpy]

I was super-keen to buy in singapore, but it has proven impossible. The economics don't work and the market doesn't accept reality either. To give an idea, this is the lowest interest environment...ever. After absd etc if I throw in sgd$380,000 cash, for a 3 bed condo, even in this low interest environment, I will still be paying MORE in mortgage payment on a 1.6m property than if I rent. That makes no sense at all to pay a huge lump sum and end up paying more than rental. We all know interest rates will rise, so that means the 'deal' is even worse. Finally, rentals are dropping and oversupply looms, who on earth would buy into an overpriced market primed to dump at least 20% value?

Coupled with that are inflexible sellers, which makes it impossible to strike deals. A year ago I got frustrated and offered on a property. I offered 100k less than asking price (6%ish) which said 'negotiable'. He laughed and said 'negotiable upwards'. A year later, he's still on the market and offering far more than 100 less, no takers. I asked my landlord at the end of my lease for a reduction in rental after 2 years. He refused. I moved to a higher, bigger unit in the same condo and got A 20% reduction in rent. 6 months later, my original landlord has still not yet re-let my old unit. I really wish I'd been able to wait a little longer as there will be tremendous low prices for rents next year. So many of my colleagues stay with their parents and own a property they rent out. That's unusual, mainly people live in their houses...more than most places, acceptable yield will determine if property is an attractive asset to hold.

I constantly have young people advisinge to buy 'you always make money on property'. Rubbish!! In the 90s you couldn't give singapore property away. These starry eyes people will be disappointed to learn about the concept of negative equity!

Point is, I don't think it's worth buying sing property till it's down 20% and absd etc comes off. Because it offers zero yield....that makes no sense at all. Like iskandar, just 4-5 times more expensive.

 

[Stimpy]

Wow...at 2009, London must be selling at GBP 400psf Zone 2. Now it is worth at least GBP 800 to 1000.
Which Borough you invested this time? I have one near Wapping too.

I bought 50m away from Clapham North tube station. But...'prime' zone 2 was a bloody nightmare. I found out my downstairs neighbor was a drug-infested street hooker (when she propositioned me as I was out buying milk on a Sunday afternoon). Oh, and because of The uk's welfare policies, instead of paying rent of around sgd$4000 at the time, she got to live there for free. A neighbor threw a mattress out and a tramp immediately took up residence on my driveway, pissing and shitting as he saw fit and emptying my bins everywhere every morning in search of food. I was glad to leave London - it IS a great city, but it's also very imperfect, violent and dirty. Like most people I just want to be able to get on with my life in relative peace. I can keep to myself in SG, keep my head down, respect others and live my life. It's fantastic and I feel very grateful to be here.

 

[Stimpy]

This time I bought outside of London...the prices are now dangerously high, so I saw better value in other areas!

 

[eric3417]

In order for SG property to have little to no capital gain in 10-15yrs time is unlikely... Unless population regress which is impossible due to the long Q of ppl all over the world waiting to get PR here in this tiny red dot.

As population grows coupled with inflation, SG's limited & tightly controlled land will appreciate in value. Our Dear Govt will sell land accordingly to maintain an orderly growth as & when needed. If land cost dun go down? How can property prices do so?

 

[Tekkun]

This time I bought outside of London...the prices are now dangerously high, so I saw better value in other areas!

Clapham / Brixton scary place. I too stayed in Kilburn, no difference too. Very rough neighbourhood.
I bought a 2 roomer very near to St Katherine's 3 years ago, so that's ok I guess.
My preference is to stay north of the river and on the west side. Generally better.

Good move to buy out of London. I once considered Reading, Slough or even Luton.

 

[Frodo]

Hey Bros out there, especially those with experience in property investing in SG....

Is there any more sense for one to invest in SG properties in today's climate? Assuming won't kena ABSD?

Someone mentioned before it's a "no brainer" if can, invest in SG if possible, rather than Iskandar. What's the rationale? SG properties stronger? But now still expensive, despite reports saying prices have steadily dropped in the last 1-2 years.

A property in SG costs SGD1.5 million for a 3 bedder....take bank loan also monthly instalment quite a fair bit. If cannot rent out then also a problem. Similar property size in JB maybe SGD400K, cannot rent out maybe also don't have a hefty monthly mortgage like in Singapore. Would this be correct to say?

 

[Stimpy]

Clapham / Brixton scary place. I too stayed in Kilburn, no difference too. Very rough neighbourhood.
I bought a 2 roomer very near to St Katherine's 3 years ago, so that's ok I guess.
My preference is to stay north of the river and on the west side. Generally better.

Good move to buy out of London. I once considered Reading, Slough or even Luton.

It's all relative. I was never bothered there in 3 years, but you see it happening and the crime stats speak for themselves. Some people look like victims, or are wrong place, wrong time. Mostly people go around with little problem. It's not so nice if you have a family though. I'm confident , but I am not confident in any of my kin standing up for themselves...frankly it's why i came to SG after the riots which lasted for FOUR days! I don't think the little India one would have made the news in the uk!

 

[Tekkun]

It's all relative. I was never bothered there in 3 years, but you see it happening and the crime stats speak for themselves. Some people look like victims, or are wrong place, wrong time. Mostly people go around with little problem. It's not so nice if you have a family though. I'm confident , but I am not confident in any of my kin standing up for themselves...frankly it's why i came to SG after the riots which lasted for FOUR days! I don't think the little India one would have made the news in the uk!

Did the riots lasted 4 days? I thought it was just the guy who chopped the police man and that's it.
Whoever intend to invest in London must know the place very well. Certain places are very nice yet certain areas are no go.
SG is very safe, PH is not as safe as SG but definitely better than Clapham.

 

[Stimpy]

I think you were a brave one up at kilburn! Clapham is gentrifying, the high street already is...

Nah that was a totally different thing: think that 'on the street be heading' happened in Swindon or somewhere non-London. Hard to tell how long the riots lasted - wiki says six days - but by then they had spread to being country-wide. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_England_riots

the thing was., I had a two month old at that point, it's. A sobering experience to see something and call the police hotline...and .... Nobody answers. At all. For days., due to the sheer volume of calls.

Really makes you realise just how thin the 'thin blue line' is and how thin a veneer 'society' is.

 

[sgcount]

A property in SG costs SGD1.5 million for a 3 bedder....take bank loan also monthly instalment quite a fair bit. If cannot rent out then also a problem. Similar property size in JB maybe SGD400K, cannot rent out maybe also don't have a hefty monthly mortgage like in Singapore. Would this be correct to say?

At first thought, it looks like that. But I think there are deeper thoughts to it.

I think maybe it's the very rich who want to buy SG properties because they have the upfront cash.

 

[sgcount]

I was super-keen to buy in singapore, but it has proven impossible. The economics don't work and the market doesn't accept reality either. To give an idea, this is the lowest interest environment...ever. After absd etc if I throw in sgd$380,000 cash, for a 3 bed condo, even in this low interest environment, I will still be paying MORE in mortgage payment on a 1.6m property than if I rent. That makes no sense at all to pay a huge lump sum and end up paying more than rental. We all know interest rates will rise, so that means the 'deal' is even worse. Finally, rentals are dropping and oversupply looms, who on earth would buy into an overpriced market primed to dump at least 20% value?

Coupled with that are inflexible sellers, which makes it impossible to strike deals. A year ago I got frustrated and offered on a property. I offered 100k less than asking price (6%ish) which said 'negotiable'. He laughed and said 'negotiable upwards'. A year later, he's still on the market and offering far more than 100 less, no takers. I asked my landlord at the end of my lease for a reduction in rental after 2 years. He refused. I moved to a higher, bigger unit in the same condo and got A 20% reduction in rent. 6 months later, my original landlord has still not yet re-let my old unit. I really wish I'd been able to wait a little longer as there will be tremendous low prices for rents next year. So many of my colleagues stay with their parents and own a property they rent out. That's unusual, mainly people live in their houses...more than most places, acceptable yield will determine if property is an attractive asset to hold.

I constantly have young people advisinge to buy 'you always make money on property'. Rubbish!! In the 90s you couldn't give singapore property away. These starry eyes people will be disappointed to learn about the concept of negative equity!

Point is, I don't think it's worth buying sing property till it's down 20% and absd etc comes off. Because it offers zero yield....that makes no sense at all. Like iskandar, just 4-5 times more expensive.

Thanks for sharing. Great learning points there!

So even for own occupancy, SG private properties (eg condos) are not worth to get now?

To drop 20% is quite a lot. Maybe only when there is another economic crisis for that to happen?

If govt removes cooling measures, I think the situation will be quite bad. Even now, with the many cooling measures, buyers never stop buying. There are many rich people around.

 

[Frodo]

At first thought, it looks like that. But I think there are deeper thoughts to it.

I think maybe it's the very rich who want to buy SG properties because they have the upfront cash.

Very likely so. Not that I don't want to buy another property in Singapore, but I simply don't have the means. Even if can cough out downpayment also don't know how to cough out monthly payment, should it be such that tenants are not forthcoming. But if buy in JB, even if no tenants, the burden is much lesser. And one does not have to be super rich to do that....yours truly is live example.

 

[sgcount]

Very likely so. Not that I don't want to buy another property in Singapore, but I simply don't have the means. Even if can cough out downpayment also don't know how to cough out monthly payment, should it be such that tenants are not forthcoming. But if buy in JB, even if no tenants, the burden is much lesser. And one does not have to be super rich to do that....yours truly is live example.

Truth be told, I thought exactly the same as you 2 years ago. That was how I ended up getting a condo in Medini. I wanted to do some investment but was not qualified because of HDB's 5 year MOP ruling. So I jumped into Iskandar after reading only the positive side of things. I also thought, since SG properties are so expensive, even if I wanted to, it will be tough and not worth it. I told myself I will only concentrate on Iskandar and it is comfortable to own one, compared to some Micky Mouse condo in SG that costs $700k.

But now that I am getting out of the 5 yr MOP and have a wee bit more financial power, and after hearing all the negative news about Iskandar properties, that's why I began to feel disturbed. Should I continue pumping in cash on a property in Medini that has an uncertain future, or should I go into SG property? Yes, it's crazy expensive and I have to allocate more mortgage every month, but the chances of having an upside is much greater than Medini. If I get screwed by the Medini condo, I could lose S$400k (bank interests included over 25 years) by not being able to readily sell it away next time.

That's worse than buying a $700k small condo in SG. At least even in bad times, you know there will be buyers and you will lose relatively less, not S$400k. But if one can hold on, that the upside potential is definitely there, if historical performance is to be any indication.

However, I have also read that some are saying now is not the time to go into SG properties as they are priced too high. But I wonder if the prices will ever go down much more. When you have a country filled with so many millionaires and other rich people, I doubt property prices here will drop drastically. Except perhaps in some major economic crisis. No signs of that happening any time soon.

 

[Frodo]

Truth be told, I thought exactly the same as you 2 years ago. That was how I ended up getting a condo in Medini. I wanted to do some investment but was not qualified because of HDB's 5 year MOP ruling. So I jumped into Iskandar after reading only the positive side of things. I also thought, since SG properties are so expensive, even if I wanted to, it will be tough and not worth it. I told myself I will only concentrate on Iskandar and it is comfortable to own one, compared to some Micky Mouse condo in SG that costs $700k.

But now that I am getting out of the 5 yr MOP and have a wee bit more financial power, and after hearing all the negative news about Iskandar properties, that's why I began to feel disturbed. Should I continue pumping in cash on a property in Medini that has an uncertain future, or should I go into SG property? Yes, it's crazy expensive and I have to allocate more mortgage every month, but the chances of having an upside is much greater than Medini. If I get screwed by the Medini condo, I could lose S$400k (bank interests included over 25 years) by not being able to readily sell it away next time.

That's worse than buying a $700k small condo in SG. At least even in bad times, you know there will be buyers and you will lose relatively less, not S$400k. But if one can hold on, that the upside potential is definitely there, if historical performance is to be any indication.

However, I have also read that some are saying now is not the time to go into SG properties as they are priced too high. But I wonder if the prices will ever go down much more. When you have a country filled with so many millionaires and other rich people, I doubt property prices here will drop drastically. Except perhaps in some major economic crisis. No signs of that happening any time soon.

Unless the developer in JB run road I don't suppose you could be screwed for total loss of $400K. There may be real buyers who may want to buy from you if you sell below market rate, should that be the worst scenario. In Singapore, people are also more choosy...and condo units may not find tenants that easily compared to HDB. The monthly mortgage would be really a burden. And rental yield lesser...you would be better off staying in the smaller condo and renting out the HDB as an investment, if that is possible, as the rental yield from HDB is usually better.

 

[xebay11]

Hey Bros out there, especially those with experience in property investing in SG....

Is there any more sense for one to invest in SG properties in today's climate? Assuming won't kena ABSD?

Someone mentioned before it's a "no brainer" if can, invest in SG if possible, rather than Iskandar. What's the rationale? SG properties stronger? But now still expensive, despite reports saying prices have steadily dropped in the last 1-2 years.

Not now, prices are sky high and falling or stagnant at best, oversupply here although will recover provided the 6.9 million target is met. I have frozen all investments in Singapore and just restructuring investments, including buying a HDB.