Puteri Harbour Community

[xebay11]

Truth be told, I thought exactly the same as you 2 years ago. That was how I ended up getting a condo in Medini. I wanted to do some investment but was not qualified because of HDB's 5 year MOP ruling. So I jumped into Iskandar after reading only the positive side of things. I also thought, since SG properties are so expensive, even if I wanted to, it will be tough and not worth it. I told myself I will only concentrate on Iskandar and it is comfortable to own one, compared to some Micky Mouse condo in SG that costs $700k.

But now that I am getting out of the 5 yr MOP and have a wee bit more financial power, and after hearing all the negative news about Iskandar properties, that's why I began to feel disturbed. Should I continue pumping in cash on a property in Medini that has an uncertain future, or should I go into SG property? Yes, it's crazy expensive and I have to allocate more mortgage every month, but the chances of having an upside is much greater than Medini. If I get screwed by the Medini condo, I could lose S$400k (bank interests included over 25 years) by not being able to readily sell it away next time.

That's worse than buying a $700k small condo in SG. At least even in bad times, you know there will be buyers and you will lose relatively less, not S$400k. But if one can hold on, that the upside potential is definitely there, if historical performance is to be any indication.

However, I have also read that some are saying now is not the time to go into SG properties as they are priced too high. But I wonder if the prices will ever go down much more. When you have a country filled with so many millionaires and other rich people, I doubt property prices here will drop drastically. Except perhaps in some major economic crisis. No signs of that happening any time soon.

You bought overseas property while still in MOP lock in? Wow congratulations, all here must help you by keeping quiet.

SG properties will never escalate anymore like in the past, due to anti speculative measures and will drop more significantly soon due to interest rate hikes, the real brunt is coming. Also prices have dropped, just that they do not reach the common market, you need a network of bankers, agents and lawyers to help you, ie. Foreclosures, fire sales and divorce cases etc. The reason why prices have not plunged here is because there is barely anymore large scale projects being launched, all construction almost at a standstill compared with the past.

Oz is a no go, unless you have citizenship.

Best formula is to buy a HDB and rent out and retire in Johor.

 

[sgcount]

Unless the developer in JB run road I don't suppose you could be screwed for total loss of $400K. There may be real buyers who may want to buy from you if you sell below market rate, should that be the worst scenario. In Singapore, people are also more choosy...and condo units may not find tenants that easily compared to HDB. The monthly mortgage would be really a burden. And rental yield lesser...you would be better off staying in the smaller condo and renting out the HDB as an investment, if that is possible, as the rental yield from HDB is usually better.

By being "screwed" I mean if cannot find buyers next time. That was what I was warned due to large oversupply. Some compared the situation to China's vacant apartments.

Can probably sell way under market price, but that in itself is already a huge loss. Again, provided interest is there. I did a test some time back and tried to sell my Medini condo 20% below. No takers!

Seems like long gone are the days when condo owners in Singapore could get good profits by renting out their condos?

 

[sgcount]

You bought overseas property while still in MOP lock in? Wow congratulations, all here must help you by keeping quiet.

SG properties will never escalate anymore like in the past, due to anti speculative measures and will drop more significantly soon due to interest rate hikes, the real brunt is coming. Also prices have dropped, just that they do not reach the common market, you need a network of bankers, agents and lawyers to help you, ie. Foreclosures, fire sales and divorce cases etc. The reason why prices have not plunged here is because there is barely anymore large scale projects being launched, all construction almost at a standstill compared with the past.

Oz is a no go, unless you have citizenship.

Best formula is to buy a HDB and rent out and retire in Johor.

Didn't buy under my name la!

This is the part I don't understand. There is talk about how condo prices here are still high but the recent launches seem to have good take up rate. Are these bought by first-timers (eg successful professionals, etc) and the rich? In fact, an agent told me developer is likely to increase prices for the Phase 2 launch.

An agent has been asking me to sell my HDB and buy condo! <-- Not good advice?

What about the argument that years later, when Singapore population grows, the condos will appreciate in price further? I mean, if you look back in the past, people often said condos in Singapore were expensive. But those who bought their so-called "expensive" condos in the past have now made 100% profits. The SG government seems firm to want to bring us to the 6.9 million target.

In the past, would anyone even dare to project the "crazy" idea that one day, HDB flats will cost $800k and above? Yet, many of those in prime locations are now selling at that kind of prices. And in the top of the top location, the selling price is close to, or exceeds a million $. So I dunno.... will the expensive condos of today maybe appreciate in price beyond what we think they can?

Why do you say Oz is out unless one is a citizen? I have heard many Singaporeans are buying up Oz properties now.

I wish transportation between Singapore and Johor could be a lot better. Then it's attractive to just rent out HDB and live in Johor! Wish they had something like an MRT that goes through Puteri Harbour, Medini, Bukit Indah, Danga Bay, etc. That would be cool. Without a convenient form of transportation within the next decade, it's hard for most working Singaporeans to consider the option of living in JB.

 

[Tekkun]

Didn't buy under my name la!

So the story is you are not so poor and so pathetic in Medini. Understood.

 

[freekazoid]

By being "screwed" I mean if cannot find buyers next time. That was what I was warned due to large oversupply. Some compared the situation to China's vacant apartments.

Can probably sell way under market price, but that in itself is already a huge loss. Again, provided interest is there. I did a test some time back and tried to sell my Medini condo 20% below. No takers!

Non of Medini development is TOP. How do you do the trial marketing? PM me when u want to do another market trial

 

[Tekkun]

Non of Medini development is TOP. How do you do the trial marketing? PM me when u want to do another market trial

Any projects especially those with leasehold and have not TOP would be near impossible attract any buyers. It is not the discounted price but the developer cannot approve any transfer of ownership. More so, leasehold land need approval from State Authorities and if the project is not completed and it still remained to be within a master title. The strata titles had not been submitted to the land office yet, how on earth is one going to get approval to transfer ownership?

 

[Stimpy]

Truth be told, I thought exactly the same as you 2 years ago. That was how I ended up getting a condo in Medini. I wanted to do some investment but was not qualified because of HDB's 5 year MOP ruling. So I jumped into Iskandar after reading only the positive side of things. I also thought, since SG properties are so expensive, even if I wanted to, it will be tough and not worth it. I told myself I will only concentrate on Iskandar and it is comfortable to own one, compared to some Micky Mouse condo in SG that costs $700k.

But now that I am getting out of the 5 yr MOP and have a wee bit more financial power, and after hearing all the negative news about Iskandar properties, that's why I began to feel disturbed. Should I continue pumping in cash on a property in Medini that has an uncertain future, or should I go into SG property? Yes, it's crazy expensive and I have to allocate more mortgage every month, but the chances of having an upside is much greater than Medini. If I get screwed by the Medini condo, I could lose S$400k (bank interests included over 25 years) by not being able to readily sell it away next time.

That's worse than buying a $700k small condo in SG. At least even in bad times, you know there will be buyers and you will lose relatively less, not S$400k. But if one can hold on, that the upside potential is definitely there, if historical performance is to be any indication.

However, I have also read that some are saying now is not the time to go into SG properties as they are priced too high. But I wonder if the prices will ever go down much more. When you have a country filled with so many millionaires and other rich people, I doubt property prices here will drop drastically. Except perhaps in some major economic crisis. No signs of that happening any time soon.

Everything is cyclical. What goes up comes down. I didn't buy in sg when I first arrived because I felt that high prices ran against the needs of the government (to make sg an attractive, internationally competitive place to work and do business). They had to put in measures and overbuild to bring it down, or who will live here? Expats? All their housing allowances are being taken away. Look at all the big miners - they are dying, Anglo is shedding TWO THIRDS of it's staff - cutting 85,000 people!! When I first came here, many of their staff had a sgd$10k/month allowance just for housing. Do you think they have that now? Or their competitors? If you are locating a business, are you 100% sure that SG is the most attractive Asian location? Don't get me wrong, it has tremendous assets in English jurisprudence and language plus corporate tax regime. But, companies do move and always evaluate choices, look at HSBC leaving London for Hong Kong.

Point is, don't just assume 'constant demand'. There are plenty of people leaving all the time. Those replacing will often be junior (less pay) and extremely price sensitive for rental. Already I can get 1300sq ft rental prices bordering orchard for sub 4k. That Orchard owner doesn't care if he bought years ago, but I guarantee you if he bought in the last 4 years at less than 30% down, he is not a happy bunny.

Timing is crucial, I wouldn't be rushing to buy now. Wait for a significant dip, not this farcical 5% that has property agents squeeling for a repeal of damping measures. By the reports in the press you'd think prices has really suffered. Economy is slowing, as is the region. Interest rates are set to rise..whatever the 'game' has been since 2009, it is changing, but few know to what it is changing...so caution is not a bad stance. Real estate is classed as a 'risk asset' for a reason. Today people are 'risk off'.

Also, one other thing...why in the name of god are estate agents so handsomely rewarded here? For what?! My experience has been that they are very poor...but all they are doing is opening a door and (failing to) answer basic questions about the property. It's daylight robbery!! A 1% each way is a handsome purse!

 

[xebay11]

Everything is cyclical. What goes up comes down. I didn't buy in sg when I first arrived because I felt that high prices ran against the needs of the government (to make sg an attractive, internationally competitive place to work and do business). They had to put in measures and overbuild to bring it down, or who will live here? Expats? All their housing allowances are being taken away. Look at all the big miners - they are dying, Anglo is shedding TWO THIRDS of it's staff - cutting 85,000 people!! When I first came here, many of their staff had a sgd$10k/month allowance just for housing. Do you think they have that now? Or their competitors? If you are locating a business, are you 100% sure that SG is the most attractive Asian location? Don't get me wrong, it has tremendous assets in English jurisprudence and language plus corporate tax regime. But, companies do move and always evaluate choices, look at HSBC leaving London for Hong Kong.

Point is, don't just assume 'constant demand'. There are plenty of people leaving all the time. Those replacing will often be junior (less pay) and extremely price sensitive for rental. Already I can get 1300sq ft rental prices bordering orchard for sub 4k. That Orchard owner doesn't care if he bought years ago, but I guarantee you if he bought in the last 4 years at less than 30% down, he is not a happy bunny.

Timing is crucial, I wouldn't be rushing to buy now. Wait for a significant dip, not this farcical 5% that has property agents squeeling for a repeal of damping measures. By the reports in the press you'd think prices has really suffered. Economy is slowing, as is the region. Interest rates are set to rise..whatever the 'game' has been since 2009, it is changing, but few know to what it is changing...so caution is not a bad stance. Real estate is classed as a 'risk asset' for a reason. Today people are 'risk off'.

Also, one other thing...why in the name of god are estate agents so handsomely rewarded here? For what?! My experience has been that they are very poor...but all they are doing is opening a door and (failing to) answer basic questions about the property. It's daylight robbery!! A 1% each way is a handsome purse!

Very well written and I basically agree with what you say, that is why as an investor always try to extrapolate future demand and not extrapolate past profits and earnings. This way you will err on the side of caution.

Only thing I don't agree is on your position of property agents. Do not deal with agents randomly, always chose agents which are focused in the areas you need to buy, sell or rent. My agents always make me money, my last transaction on a sale of $1.2m condo, I gave my agent a target to work on. Just set the bar high, and incentivize their commission. They will go all out for you. I made $100 plus k above my target price and gave the agent $10k more, win, win situation. Same as rental, I find good rental agents and throw out the listings, again do not stinge on commission , they will work harder that way.

Buying is even better, there are agents who specialize in foreclosed properties...........ha ha, make use of them.

 

[xebay11]

Didn't buy under my name la!

This is the part I don't understand. There is talk about how condo prices here are still high but the recent launches seem to have good take up rate. Are these bought by first-timers (eg successful professionals, etc) and the rich? In fact, an agent told me developer is likely to increase prices for the Phase 2 launch.

An agent has been asking me to sell my HDB and buy condo! <-- Not good advice?

What about the argument that years later, when Singapore population grows, the condos will appreciate in price further? I mean, if you look back in the past, people often said condos in Singapore were expensive. But those who bought their so-called "expensive" condos in the past have now made 100% profits. The SG government seems firm to want to bring us to the 6.9 million target.

In the past, would anyone even dare to project the "crazy" idea that one day, HDB flats will cost $800k and above? Yet, many of those in prime locations are now selling at that kind of prices. And in the top of the top location, the selling price is close to, or exceeds a million $. So I dunno.... will the expensive condos of today maybe appreciate in price beyond what we think they can?

Why do you say Oz is out unless one is a citizen? I have heard many Singaporeans are buying up Oz properties now.

I wish transportation between Singapore and Johor could be a lot better. Then it's attractive to just rent out HDB and live in Johor! Wish they had something like an MRT that goes through Puteri Harbour, Medini, Bukit Indah, Danga Bay, etc. That would be cool. Without a convenient form of transportation within the next decade, it's hard for most working Singaporeans to consider the option of living in JB.

Do not sell hdb to buy condo, unless it is an EC and you are eligible for grants or freehold Condo. I bought my hdb in 2011 and loving it lots, for $50plus town council fees my facilities are maintained and upgraded well, no AGM no fighting, no need extra money, now I know why HDB so popular with citizens.

As for prices, HDB resale in outlying areas is under tremendous pressure from new BTO, so any appreciation is slim or non-existent. However, HDB in prime town locations will continue to appreciate, against all logic, I am very tempted to buy the Pinnacle at $1m, there is potential for the good high floor units to hit $1.5m as this is a totally unique project and no competition in that area.

 

[PuteriWorld]

I am one of those who got screwed by the Singapore FT levy.

I was paying about S$500 for 10 FTs in Singapore many years back. Just on Foreign Levy.

When my last FT left my Singapore branch, I was paying S$500 each for my 10 FT. That is a $5000 a month just on LEVY ( RM 15000 LEVY ) ... up from S$500 a month. I heard some of my cilents are paying S$900 EACH!

Tak Boleh ah I went to see my MP who happened to be a tip-top steady Minister thinking he knows what I am saying. YES! He knows exactly what I am saying but he said he will help me.

KNN the next month they increase the levy somemore! Its just being screwed in your ass, went to report to polis and they screw your ass again.

S$5000 a month levy is ABSURD. Its not even my workers salaries. And RM 15000 a month can get me 10 very hardworking foreign workers in Iskandar.

I sold off my terrace factory for S$3 million ( bought for 1 million during the downturn ) and bought a Semi D factory for just S$600,000 about 5 minute to Tuas ( don't laugh I am not kidding! )

Till now I still donno what to do with the rest of the money. But paying S$5000 a month just to entertain the leadership's world renowned salaries ( 5 times that of Obama ) makes my blood boil. Everyday I work 6am to 9pm. No Family Life...girlfriends left me one by one.

I rather don't work and report nil income so I can get all kinds of benefit in Singapore.

Don't scold me. I am at a loss. Really Tak Boleh Tahan la. But ever since I moved to my S$150,000 condo with my 25 year old pretty Malaysian mistress near Medini, every other day I still shout Tak Boleh Tahan la

One thing I find repeatedly occurring is that, there is mismatch between the positive things being said about Iskandar and its oversupply of properties. Meaning, Iskandar growing does not imply its properties will appreciate in value, or that rental will be easy to come by. But that is the picture some Malaysian developers and agents try to paint.

Some even went on the say that Singapore is getting more and more expensive to do business in, so Iskandar is an attractive answer to the problem. But so far, does anyone have any examples of Singapore companies relocating to Iskandar because of the cheaper costs there? The last I was told, this is not as attractive as it seems. There is the transport issue (long jams) and lack of suitable manpower. These companies cannot bring their own Singaporean staff there and pay them in RM. So they are back to square one and stick their base in Singapore.

Same goes to Gleneagles Medini. Even with the ability to use Medisave, so far there isn't much news about Singaporeans moving over there to seek medical treatment. Transport issue is definitely one of the reason. Familiarity of environment and expectation of doctor's expertise are probably the other 2 factors that many would rather pay more in Singapore.

 

[PuteriWorld]

Many Singaporeans do not know that if the oil prices persist, Singapore economy will be screwed as badly as the Malaysians.

Frankly, I used to look down on PTP when they first started. But they bought in some expats management and manage to snatch off some big shot cilents from PSA after a few years. The fact that PTP is growing every month and PSA is dropping every month is an indicator of what is going to happen in 5-10 years time.

Iskandar Economy has never slowed down. In fact, its growing as you and I speak

PSA volume has dropped. PTP has gone up. This speaks volume

 

[Tekkun]

I am one of those who got screwed by the Singapore FT levy.

I was paying about S$500 for 10 FTs in Singapore many years back. Just on Foreign Levy.

When my last FT left my Singapore branch, I was paying S$500 each for my 10 FT. That is a $5000 a month just on LEVY ( RM 15000 LEVY ) ... up from S$500 a month. I heard some of my cilents are paying S$900 EACH!

Tak Boleh ah I went to see my MP who happened to be a tip-top steady Minister thinking he knows what I am saying. YES! He knows exactly what I am saying but he said he will help me.

KNN the next month they increase the levy somemore! Its just being screwed in your ass, went to report to polis and they screw your ass again.

S$5000 a month levy is ABSURD. Its not even my workers salaries. And RM 15000 a month can get me 10 very hardworking foreign workers in Iskandar.

I sold off my terrace factory for S$3 million ( bought for 1 million during the downturn ) and bought a Semi D factory for just S$600,000 about 5 minute to Tuas ( don't laugh I am not kidding! )

Till now I still donno what to do with the rest of the money. But paying S$5000 a month just to entertain the leadership's world renowned salaries ( 5 times that of Obama ) makes my blood boil. Everyday I work 6am to 9pm. No Family Life...girlfriends left me one by one.

I rather don't work and report nil income so I can get all kinds of benefit in Singapore.

Don't scold me. I am at a loss. Really Tak Boleh Tahan la. But ever since I moved to my S$150,000 condo with my 25 year old pretty Malaysian mistress near Medini, every other day I still shout Tak Boleh Tahan la

There's a Malaysian Radio talk show 98.80 where people would call up to the radio station and complain. Then they would scream "Gua Beh Tahan Liao" at the end of their call to get it off their chest. You can try that....

 

[Frodo]

You bought overseas property while still in MOP lock in? Wow congratulations, all here must help you by keeping quiet.

He bought property under another name in JB while you bought HDB because private property is under company assets...Both also found a way around system...LOL!

 

[xebay11]

He bought property under another name in JB while you bought HDB because private property is under company assets...Both also found a way around system...LOL!

HDB under my name, private properties under company LOL! HDB is good.

 

[xebay11]

I am one of those who got screwed by the Singapore FT levy.

I was paying about S$500 for 10 FTs in Singapore many years back. Just on Foreign Levy.

When my last FT left my Singapore branch, I was paying S$500 each for my 10 FT. That is a $5000 a month just on LEVY ( RM 15000 LEVY ) ... up from S$500 a month. I heard some of my cilents are paying S$900 EACH!

Tak Boleh ah I went to see my MP who happened to be a tip-top steady Minister thinking he knows what I am saying. YES! He knows exactly what I am saying but he said he will help me.

KNN the next month they increase the levy somemore! Its just being screwed in your ass, went to report to polis and they screw your ass again.

S$5000 a month levy is ABSURD. Its not even my workers salaries. And RM 15000 a month can get me 10 very hardworking foreign workers in Iskandar.

I sold off my terrace factory for S$3 million ( bought for 1 million during the downturn ) and bought a Semi D factory for just S$600,000 about 5 minute to Tuas ( don't laugh I am not kidding! )

Till now I still donno what to do with the rest of the money. But paying S$5000 a month just to entertain the leadership's world renowned salaries ( 5 times that of Obama ) makes my blood boil. Everyday I work 6am to 9pm. No Family Life...girlfriends left me one by one.

I rather don't work and report nil income so I can get all kinds of benefit in Singapore.

Don't scold me. I am at a loss. Really Tak Boleh Tahan la. But ever since I moved to my S$150,000 condo with my 25 year old pretty Malaysian mistress near Medini, every other day I still shout Tak Boleh Tahan la

I saw this coming in the 90s and decided to call it quits in manufacturing in my twenties, diversified into property and now have quite a comfortable portfolio. Now slow down already and planning to retire young(ish).

I am a leech of society now, living off the earnings off hardworking people, learn from PAP.

 

[Frodo]

By being "screwed" I mean if cannot find buyers next time. That was what I was warned due to large oversupply. Some compared the situation to China's vacant apartments.

Can probably sell way under market price, but that in itself is already a huge loss. Again, provided interest is there. I did a test some time back and tried to sell my Medini condo 20% below. No takers!

Seems like long gone are the days when condo owners in Singapore could get good profits by renting out their condos?

Sorry to say this which would depress you further, I am pretty sure if you lower the price further sure can find buyer one. My brother in law is looking for nice condo and cheap one....He has been looking around almost 2 years liao....

 

[Frodo]

I saw this coming in the 90s and decided to call it quits in manufacturing in my twenties, diversified into property and now have quite a comfortable portfolio. Now slow down already and planning to retire young(ish).

I am a leech of society now, living off the earnings off hardworking people, learn from PAP.

You lucky leech lah....I still must work till I drop...:(

 

[Frodo]

Didn't buy under my name la!

This is the part I don't understand. There is talk about how condo prices here are still high but the recent launches seem to have good take up rate. Are these bought by first-timers (eg successful professionals, etc) and the rich? In fact, an agent told me developer is likely to increase prices for the Phase 2 launch.

An agent has been asking me to sell my HDB and buy condo! <-- Not good advice?

What about the argument that years later, when Singapore population grows, the condos will appreciate in price further? I mean, if you look back in the past, people often said condos in Singapore were expensive. But those who bought their so-called "expensive" condos in the past have now made 100% profits. The SG government seems firm to want to bring us to the 6.9 million target.

In the past, would anyone even dare to project the "crazy" idea that one day, HDB flats will cost $800k and above? Yet, many of those in prime locations are now selling at that kind of prices. And in the top of the top location, the selling price is close to, or exceeds a million $. So I dunno.... will the expensive condos of today maybe appreciate in price beyond what we think they can?

Why do you say Oz is out unless one is a citizen? I have heard many Singaporeans are buying up Oz properties now.

I wish transportation between Singapore and Johor could be a lot better. Then it's attractive to just rent out HDB and live in Johor! Wish they had something like an MRT that goes through Puteri Harbour, Medini, Bukit Indah, Danga Bay, etc. That would be cool. Without a convenient form of transportation within the next decade, it's hard for most working Singaporeans to consider the option of living in JB.

You would be screwed if you took your agent advice because you wanted to buy property to invest spare cash, and not to end up pua zhu from selling HDB to buy condo.

When I wanted to sell my HDB my agent said it would be foolish to sell, better to rent it out if my intention was to move to JB. I don't know why he would sacrifice his commission but it was the best advice from a property agent so far.

Property prices back then we expensive, now is lagi more expensive! I think the SG govt has failed if HDB prices are allowed to skyrocket and yet they can say HDB meant to be affordable...

As for living in JB, it would certainly be good if causeway woes are solved. But a better causeway movement would go in favour of Iskandar, which maybe the SG govt does not want.

 

[xebay11]

You would be screwed if you took your agent advice because you wanted to buy property to invest spare cash, and not to end up pua zhu from selling HDB to buy condo.

When I wanted to sell my HDB my agent said it would be foolish to sell, better to rent it out if my intention was to move to JB. I don't know why he would sacrifice his commission but it was the best advice from a property agent so far.

Yep, yep. Condos in Singapore, especially 99 yr lease ones are an exercise in vanity and serve no purpose, I owned one and lived from 2004 to 2009 and sold off at a profit and told myself, never again. Now only FH condo, landed and HDB.

 

[sgcount]

Don't scold me. I am at a loss. Really Tak Boleh Tahan la. But ever since I moved to my S$150,000 condo with my 25 year old pretty Malaysian mistress near Medini, every other day I still shout Tak Boleh Tahan la

There is one thing I know you must shout "BOLEH TAHAN!" That's when you spend time with your pretty mistress. Otherwise how to last the "session"?