Please discuss your views about the current Tension between CHINA & PHILIPPINES

[jubilee1919]

What rubbish are you talking about? The Chinese name those islands 2000 years ago. China has the right to those islands according to international laws. What makes you think the uncivilized pinoz have a claim too?

Any links to confirm that China owns those islands?

 

[Orion]

Re: Jade Seal Of Ching

That's why i say it's wearing the backside skin of another culture on their faces. When you wear the backside skin of someone else on your face you actually assume you are that person or culture. In short you are emulating them and subconsciously think you are one of them. That's the type of mentality indians have. They think that all cos they look more ang moh they can somehow become a white person preferably a western european and then share in their glory of best country in the world and highly fawned over but of course they aren't real whites just pretending to be whites in short wearing the butt skin of the whites.

The pinoys think in that sort of manner. They subconsciously see themselves as pseudo americans, japs and spanish since they cannot beat them so why not just join them who cares about pride or self respect when you change your surname to a spanish one and start getting ang moh blood in your bloodline.

Actually the pinoz earned their bad reputation deservely. As a christian country, if you go read yahoo news, it full of pinoz condemning Singaporeans and Chinese alike. That is not the way a Christian behave. The pinoz are unfortunately the most racist race in the world. They look down on all the other races if you been to their discussion board. Just like the Germans and Japs think they are so superior during WW2; that because they have an inferior complex and is trying to convince others that they are.

 

[Kinana]

Re: Vietnam's ?

You know what's 200 k.m.? It's about from Singapore to Malacca. At open sea, that's international water already.

If its international waters, what claim does China have?
200km out is international law. It does belong to pinoys.

 

[jubilee1919]

Re: Nuke Subs Of US Not War Ready ?

ASEAN was set up for the sole purpose of economic, social and cultural cooperation among its regional member states. It is not a political or military entity like WARSAW Pact or NATO organisations.

The best ASEAN can do is for its Secretariat or individual leaders to issue a call for restrain and peaceful resolution through diplomatic channels. Philippines is trying to capitalise on ASEAN for its own political purpose.

Thanks for the information. I thought we do have military exercises with our allies.

 

[Orion]

Any links to confirm that China owns those islands?

China: Philippines' sovereignty claim over Huangyan Island "illegal"
Backgrounder: Basic facts on China's sovereignty over Huangyan Island

BEIJING, May 10 (Xinhua) -- Historical evidence and international laws strongly support China's sovereignty claim over Huangyan Island in the South China Sea, said an article carried by the PLA Daily Thursday.

Based on general practice in international affairs, historical evidence and laws are two inseparable factors to judge and prove a country's sovereignty over a certain territory, said the newspaper, the mouthpiece of the People's Liberation Army (PLA).

For centuries, China has claimed sovereignty over Huangyan Island while the Philippines' recent arguments were simply tricks and self-contradictions, according to the article.

CHINESE FIRST DISCOVERED HUANGYAN ISLAND

According to many historical documents, Chinese first discovered the group of reefs and islets about 550 sea miles south of Hainan Island, and the surrounding waters in the South China Sea, and named the area "Zhanghai," or the Rising Sea, as early as over 2,000 years ago.

From the Song Dynasty (AD 960-1279) to the Qing Dynasty (AD 1644-1912), Chinese called these islands "Shitang" and "Changsha," which included Huangyan Island, as part of the Zhongsha Islands.

In the 13th century, Emperor Kublai Khan of China's Yuan Dynasty assigned an astronomer named Guo Shoujing to conduct a territory survey to unify the calendar nationwide, said Li Guoqiang, deputy director of the Research Center for Chinese Borderland History and Geography of the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences, a government think tank.

Huangyan Island was chosen as one of the 27 measuring locations in the survey in 1279, which was clearly recorded in the official historical documents, said Li, quoted by the newspaper.

CHINESE HAVE LONG COLONIZED HUANGYAN ISLAND

The waters around Huangyan Island are traditional fisheries for Chinese fishermen. They have not only fished in the waters but also built docks and other facilities on the islets.

The Chinese government has also sent several expeditions to Huangyan Island. In October, 1977 and June, 1978, scientists from the South China Sea Institute of Oceanology under the Chinese Academy of Sciences twice conducted field surveys on the island.

In April, 1985, the South China Sea Branch of the State Oceanic Administration sent a research team to the island for a comprehensive investigation.

In 1994, a research team erected an 1-meter-high cement monument on the island.


CHINA HAS LONG EXERCISED JURISDICTION OVER HUANGYAN ISLAND

China's long-term effective jurisdiction over Huangyan Island offers an important proof for its sovereignty claim. There were a number of government actions involving the island, for instance, the territorial survey in the 13th century, the newspaper article wrote.

Li Hongyun, expert with the Law School of the Peking University, told the newspaper that the Chinese government officially announced the name of Huangyan Island respectively in 1935, 1947 and 1983 and all the official maps published by Chinese governments in different historical periods marked Huangyan Island as Chinese territory.

The island has been consistently under administration of China's Guangdong province first and Hainan province later. It is currently administered by the administration office for the Xisha Islands, Zhongsha Islands and Nansha Islands under Hainan province.

Since the 1970s, the Chinese government has approved many applications from foreign adventurers requesting to visit the island, Li said.

These actions are entirely official and governmental, which directly proves China's sovereignty over the island, Li said.

INTERNATIONAL TREATIES EXCLUDE HUANGYAN ISLAND FROM THE PHILIPPINES

The territory of the Philippines is set by a series of international treaties due to its special history.

Zhang Haiwen, deputy director with the China Institute for Marine Affairs, told the newspaper that all the related international treaties, including the Treaty of Paris (1898), the Treaty of Washington (1900) and the Treaty between Great Britain and the United States (1930) have stated clearly the west limit of the Philippine territory is 118 degrees east longitude, while Huangyan Island, located 117 degrees 48 minutes east longitude, is outside this limit.

Moreover, the 1946 Treaty of General Relations between the United States of America and the Republic of the Philippines, the 1952 U.S.-Philippines Mutual Defense Treaty, the 1961 Republic Act No.3046 and the 1968 Republic Act No.5446 have reaffirmed the legal effects of the above-mentioned treaties and once again expressively defined the Philippine territorial limits which never included Huangyan Island.

OFFICIAL PHILIPPINE MAPS LONG EXCLUDE HUANGYAN ISLAND

"During a rather long period, the Philippine legal documents, official papers and national maps never involve Huangyan Island," said Li Guoqiang.

Under the Philippines domestic laws and regulations, including the 1935 Constitution of the Republic of the Philippines, Huangyan Island is outside the territory of the Philippines and even the baseline points and baseline of the Philippine territorial waters have never touched upon Huangyan Island.

Philippine maps published in 1981 and 1984 also indicate that Huangyan Island is outside the country's territory.

Until 1997, the Philippines never challenged China's jurisdiction over Huangyan Island and repeatedly stated that Huangyan Island was not part of its territory.

The documents issued by the National Mapping and Resource Information Authority of the Philippines on Oct. 18, 1994, and by the Philippine Amateur Radio Association to the American Radio Relay League on Nov. 18, 1994, both confirmed that the Philippine border and sovereignty was stipulated by the Article 3 of the Treaty of Paris (1898) and Huangyan Island is outside of Philippine territory.

NO LEGAL BASIS FOR PHILIPPINES' DEMAND

The Philippines argued that Huangyan Island was its "inherent territory" because the island was in its 200-nautical-mile Exclusive Economic Zone.

Li Hongyun told the newspaper that, as a basic principle clearly stated by the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, a country must have sovereignty over the land before it claims sovereignty over the adjacent sea waters.

The Philippines claimed sovereignty over the waters before making a claim for the land, which was obviously wrong, Li said.

It recently claimed sovereignty over Huangyan Island on the basis of exercising jurisdiction on the island and cited the case of the Island of Palmas, which confirmed the principle that a country could claim sovereignty for its long-term and effective jurisdiction over the land.

"China agrees on the principle and, it is based on the principle that China has sovereignty over Huangyan Island for it has implemented long-term and effective jurisdiction," Li said.

In addition, geographic proximity, which formed part of the Philippines' claim, is no solution to territorial entitlement as international laws and practices have early defined.

Such examples can be found everywhere in the world that a country owns a remote land that is geographically nearer to other nations, the article said.

The principle of geographic proximity would no doubt cause big chaos if it was applied in territorial affairs, the article said.

That is why the US and Asean have already declared they would not meddle in this affair. It is because China has the backing of the international law behind it. The first to discover, name and have government laws over it is the rightful owner. The Philipines is having an election soon, they want to make it big to win voters only. If the Philipines insist on pushing China which they already did by trying to retaining their fishermen for the past 1 month, the Philipines is courting their own troubles. Instead of China bullying them, everyone now could see it is the Philipines that is trying to bully China. China have the right to send in their warships now. And forget the UN, China is the big 5 of the UN and knows the laws very well.

 

[Orion]

Re: Nuke Subs Of US Not War Ready ?

Thanks for the information. I thought we do have military exercises with our allies.

Not really. Singapore armed forces is anti-malay and will never conduct any miltary exercises with them or share in the technology. That is the reason why Sg got the F15s while Malaysia and the others do not. By US laws and restrictions, Sg cannot share any information and technology with its neighbours. Thailand is treated slightly better. Each Asean members got their own restrictions decree by the US that forbid technology and military sharing.

 

[myo539]

Re: Nuke Subs Of US Not War Ready ?

Thanks for the information. I thought we do have military exercises with our allies.

Our military training and exercises have always been on a bilateral basis - one on one.
This is allowed for because Singapore - notwithstanding its being a member of ASEAN - is an independent country like all other countries, It carries and promotes its own national agenda and interest.

The military organisation that Singapore belongs to is the Five Power Defence Agreements (FPDA) comprising Malaysia, Great Britain, Australia and New Zealand. This Agreement allows for members to come to the aid of other members in time of war or hostility.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Power_Defence_Arrangements

So other than building military ties with many countries including USA and China, Singapore also builds up its own defence capabilities. It spends billions on weapons and ensures that every 18-year old men is a soldier or ancilliary militia. This is money well-spent because it still has to depend on itself.

The country has to prepare for war in time of peace. Those who think that we've spent too much on weapons or NS is simply commiting suicide for the future generation of citizens.

 

[sleaguepunter]

China's political strength is gaining speed, with all the Ang Mo countries in economic instability... USA and EUROPE are in huge debts crisis now... and these ANG MO Countries don't have money to pay back to China. They can only use their technology to "sell" to China...

China is gaining Regional Influence... not just the Region, globally. Economist are already toying the idea of having Yuan as a global currency.

i think u misunderstood. electronic data collection is very important, it allow one to access another technologies capabilities so as to find a mean to defeat it. for example, if USN get to know how powerful the PLAN radar is, then USN can find a way to jam the radar while sending carrier based F18 to blow the PLAN ship off the water. There no need to steal plans or designs of the radar but just provode an incident so that a ELINT ship or plane nearby can get the strength of the radar while allow USN to estimate how the radar work.

if ah tiong play it smart and only send "unarmed" ships and somehow get the pinoy to fire the first shot, then everything will steady pom pee pee and give PRC legitimate excuse to take over the island/islands for force.

this call the big lie tactic, hitler use it as an excuse to invade poland.

 

[Fook Seng]

Another classic example here is Sam Leong, your host. He will be most proud - and useful - to have such a name in his adopted land. (not to be mistaken for abbreviation for "Sammy")

If he uses Sammy Leong, it could be read as See My Long or Si Mi Long. So Sam Leong sounds just right. Leongsam somehow makes him sound more Asian.

 

[myo539]

U.S. plans 10-month warship deployment to Singapore

(Reuters) - The first of a new class of U.S. coastal warships will be sent to Singapore next spring for a roughly 10-month deployment, the Navy said on Wednesday, spotlighting a move that may stir China's fears of U.S. involvement in South China Sea disputes......

Whatever our view or perception is of the Singapore government, we must take our hats off to the government for its pragmatic diplomacy.

The Philippines and other countries including Japan are always scratching their head wondering why the Chinese do not KPKB when Singapore is hosting US military deployment on the island. Do it in their country, and there will be hostile noises emanating from the Mainland. Call it by whatever name or phrase, it's still military depoyment of personnel and weapons - includng nuclear-powered aircraft carriers.

Singapore SM Goh Chok Tong now visiting China is not a "chiat hong" trip. Steven Covey in its 7 Habits of Highly Effective Leadership would call it the depositing into the "emotional bank account" - the maintaining and improving of [future] relationship. Singapore is according to him always "Proactive" and "Sharpening its saw". Detractors may label it the Singapore's "kiasu" and "kiasi" mentality. I simply call it "insurance". This is an example of what the MIW has always been saying "seeing the big picture" and "working for the long term goal". Seeing it from this perspective, the generous inflow of PRC FTs, PRs and ordinary citizens serves its long term goals.

Kungfu skill was not mastered in one day - just as Rome was not built in a day.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Seven_Habits_of_Highly_Effective_People

 

[Fook Seng]

If its international waters, what claim does China have?
200km out is international law. It does belong to pinoys.

If that is the only criterion, then Singapore is part of Malaysia and BN the ruling party and PAP only a GRC seat warmer.

 

[Ramseth]

If that is the only criterion, then Singapore is part of Malaysia and BN the ruling party and PAP only a GRC seat warmer.

Singapore was part of Malaysia twice in its history. First as part of the Johor Sultanate before it was signed over to Sir Stamford Raffles in 1819 (that was the original fishing village part of history), then during the 1963-65 Merger (that was LKY version of a fishing village). So distance isn't in question. It's all formalized and legit. From the Ming Dynasty Admiral Zheng He era, China had unformalized but at time widely acknowleged claims over all of South China Sea shoals and islets not formally incorporated into a country recognized by China. Those days, SEA boats had difficulty sailing and surviving 20 k.m., 200 k.m. away was outerspace. Even in recognition of such open sea as international water, the Pinoys have no rights to stop Chinese or other ships to sail. explore or fish there.

 

[wikiphile]

Let's take a look at the current naval/aerial capabilities of PLA vs Pinoy AF

PRC
Carrier 1 (under testing)
LST - 30
Destroyers - 26
Frigates - 21
Missile boats - 120
Mineships - 52
submarines - 64
Gunboats - 231

Pinoy
Frigate - 2+1 (ex USCG cutter with no missiles)
Corvettes - 11
Patrol craft - 41
LST/LSU - 16
Patrol boats - 33

I won't even go into the aviation part, the pinoys have 0 fighter jets and unarmed helicopters, air superiority or point defense is a foregone conclusion while the chinamen will have air domination if not air supremacy. How to fight?

Geezus, i thought TNI-AL was the laughing stock of the region until i saw the pinoy navy

 

[Sideswipe]

​

Li Hongyun told the newspaper that, as a basic principle clearly stated by the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, a country must have sovereignty over the land before it claims sovereignty over the adjacent sea waters.

That is why the US and Asean have already declared they would not meddle in this affair. It is because China has the backing of the international law behind it. The first to discover, name and have government laws over it is the rightful owner. China have the right to send in their warships now. And forget the UN, China is the big 5 of the UN and knows the laws very well.

i think China claims to the sea is ambiguous. the islands or reefs/rocks claimed do not support life or economic activities. hence under UNCLOS clause (which China is a signatory), one do not enjoy a 200km special economical zone and hence do not have rights on the sea lane or claim to the natural resource. in fact China use this clause against Japan claims of economical rights around Diaoyutai. so why the double standards in Diaoyutai and South China Sea?

 

[Ramseth]

Even Singapore Navy would win if Singapore invades Pinoyland. They're clueless as to what defence is and make noise during peacetime. When some foreigners got pissed and invaded, they'd just say sorry and surrender. Call you sir, call you madam, call you papa, call you mama, etc. It's Pinoy tradition for over 500 years.

 

[Sideswipe]

So distance isn't in question. It's all formalized and legit. From the Ming Dynasty Admiral Zheng He era, China had unformalized but at time widely acknowleged claims over all of South China Sea shoals and islets not formally incorporated into a country recognized by China. Those days, SEA boats had difficulty sailing and surviving 20 k.m., 200 k.m. away was outerspace. Even in recognition of such open sea as international water, the Pinoys have no rights to stop Chinese or other ships to sail. explore or fish there.

the Qing government apparently did not make any counterclaim when the French claimed those shoals and islets as part of the French IndoChina territories.

 

[devilblue]

​

i think China claims to the sea is ambiguous. the islands or reefs/rocks claimed do not support life or economic activities. hence under UNCLOS clause (which China is a signatory), one do not enjoy a 200km special economical zone and hence do not have rights on the sea lane or claim to the natural resource. in fact China use this clause against Japan claims of economical rights around Diaoyutai. so why the double standards in Diaoyutai and South China Sea?

Simple, Middle Kingdom exists since 5000+ years old ago. Nippon at least 1500+ years. Philippines (named after King Philip of the Spanish empire) independent only less than 4 generations. If without those early Spaniard conquistadors, they'll be ethnically popularly known as Malay.
Aquino III is now holding a hot potato on hand.

 

[Ramseth]

I won't even go into the aviation part, the pinoys have 0 fighter jets and unarmed helicopters, air superiority or point defense is a foregone conclusion while the chinamen will have air domination if not air supremacy. How to fight?

Geezus, i thought TNI-AL was the laughing stock of the region until i saw the pinoy navy

Pinoy Air Force is a joke. Most of its planes are discards donated by US and Thailand to save costs of scrapping them. They still haven't figured out how to fly them properly. The major defence manufacturers are reluctant to sell them new aircraft because of uncertainty if they could keep up with payment schedule and certainty that their flight safety record word adversely affect their brandname reputation. Singapore Air Force could blow the hell out of Manila before any Pinoy pilot could locate Singapore. And they want to fight PRC? My goodness! How stupid can these people get? They make GCT and LHL look very smart, just hire them as maids!

 

[myo539]

Re: Nuke Subs Of US Not War Ready ?

Not really. Singapore armed forces is anti-malay and will never conduct any miltary exercises with them or share in the technology. That is the reason why Sg got the F15s while Malaysia and the others do not.....

It's unbelievable that an intellingent person like you can propagate such misinformation, bordering mischief ! I don't think you are ignorant of the happenings around you, nor proud of your simplistic deduction.

Singapore and Malaysia routinely conduct joint military exercises to enhance security in both countries - especially the Malapura exercies. The most recent one between the Malaysian and Singapore's Navies just ended on 7 March 2012.
http://navaltoday.com/2012/02/27/rsn-rmn-conduct-exercise-malapura/

Malaysia and Singapore are also partners in the military alliance FPDA which conduct regular exercises with other members as well. Singapore just hosted the Bersama Lima, a major FPDA joint exercise involving sophisticated aircraft, maritime and land forces which ended 4 November 2011.
http://www.straitstimes.com/BreakingNews/Singapore/Story/STIStory_724246.html

Singapore is able to afford sophisticated aircraft and submarines because it takes its defence and security very seriously and is willing to spend more to ensure that. Simple as that.

Note : Be careful of how you use the word "never".

 

[Clone]

Last night got one ATB asked me what's my view on this issue. I got stumped. So I told her "won't fight one lah".

I am impressed by the nationalistic fervour instilled into the PRC youths by the CCP.