New Romance of 3 Kingdom serial drama is out

[Alamaking]

.....
As for declaring the title Emperor 帝 upon oneself - was it Liu Bei who did it first or Cao Pi ? Can't remember, think it is Liu.

Of course Liu died early, so his stupid son Ah Dou became Emperor...

Cao Pi tulan also declared himself Emperor. Unlike his Dad, he had no qualms asking the last Han Emperor to abdicate in his favour.

Sun Quan actually is of the same generation as Liu Bei & Cao Cao, but he is the longest living among them - so i think he is last to declare Emperor for himself.

Tio Boh ? salah peiseh !

Few misconceptions
It was Cao Pi who declared himself as 帝 1st, followed by Liu Bei, then Sun Quan.

Among the 3, Cao Cao was the oldest, Sun Quan the youngest.

 

[Alamaking]

if you guys really interested in 三国志, i suggest you guys watch 百家讲坛 易中天品三国.

Very inspiring, his version of 三国志 was based on 陈寿, 裴松 historical writings and his own philosophy.

Dun look down on 易中天 this old uncle, his female fans wont lose to F4 fans in China, LOL

Enjoy

http://www.tudou.com/playlist/playindex.do?lid=8349636

 

[Ramseth]

Wah,It is true Cao was bestowed by the Emperor (wayang of course) the title of Lord/Duke/'King' Wei. That is how Wei came to be associated with his family's kingdom title.

The titles are not the same. 帝 = Emperor, 王 = King, 公 = Duke, 侯 = Lord, 伯 = Baron, 子 = Master, 男 = Mister. Untitled are commoners.

Only Emperor or King are entitled to claim sovereignty over realm. If there's an Emperor, no King shall lay such claim. Duke and Lord entitled to claim autonomous territory including own army. Baron is entitled own penal code laws within compound of own landed property. Master and Mister have no property and proprietary rights. These are honorary titles out of respect and recognition, something like our Doctor title today. For example, most scholars, including Confucius, are titled Master 子。

Ancient civilisation hierarchy and protocol were not as simple as many think. The above is just a cursory summary. It applied in the West too.

 

[elephanto]

The titles are not the same. 帝 = Emperor, 王 = King, 公 = Duke, 侯 = Lord, 伯 = Baron, 子 = Master, 男 = Mister. Untitled are commoners.

Nin Na Bei , did you just teleport from that era ? :p

Next I would be expecting you to enlighten us on the NMP & NCMP schemes in the Han Court during the 3 Kingdoms period !

 

[elephanto]

百家讲坛 易中天品三国.

agree this chap is witty & knowledgeable.
used to enjoy watching him every Sun morning on Ch 8 ....

 

[Ramseth]

Nin Na Bei , did you just teleport from that era ? :p

Next I would be expecting you to enlighten us on the NMP & NCMP schemes in the Han Court during the 3 Kingdoms period !

In Han era, a rough equivalent to MP would be 县令 (prefecture magistrate)。It combined the role of MP and judge as there was no independent judiciary. He reported local matters and sentiments upward to his 郡守 (district mayor) and ajudged both criminal and civil cases in his prefecture. Serious matters or cases might be referred upward too.

There was also no election, all 县令 were nominated by someone of 郡守 rank or above. 县令 ran his own police constabulary too, but had no army. 郡守 was the minimum rank that's allowed to run an army.

 

[Wang Ye]

if you guys really interested in 三国志, i suggest you guys watch 百家讲坛 易中天品三国.

Very inspiring, his version of 三国志 was based on 陈寿, 裴松 historical writings and his own philosophy.

Dun look down on 易中天 this old uncle, his female fans wont lose to F4 fans in China, LOL

Enjoy

http://www.tudou.com/playlist/playindex.do?lid=8349636

Bought the pirated DVD version a few years ago. Got to love his lectures. Then again that's probably because I agree fully with his assessment of my hero Cao Cao!

 

[Maximilian Chua-Heng]

Enough talk about the dong dong chiang 90s ROTK version.

The new San Guo is good enough for me to devote 90 minutes of my time to watch it nightly online.

The new serial is more pacy and does not tie itself down with the originality of ROTK novel since it is not ROTK but San Guo.

I particularly like the actor portraying Cao Cao (陈建斌).

I like the new angle on Liu Bei, protrayed as more scheming than genuinely noble.

That's all for now.

 

[Ramseth]

Three-Kingom Academy Awards 三国金像奖

My nominees are...

最佳战将 ：吕布，马超

最佳将领 ：周瑜，司马懿

最佳美女 ：貂蝉，小乔

最佳军师 ：诸葛亮，郭嘉

最佳立业 ：孙策，刘备

最佳失败 ：袁绍，刘禅

Feel free to add on your favourite nominees and/or award categories.

 

[Tadakatsu Honda]

Enough talk about the dong dong chiang 90s ROTK version.

How many dicks you have?

http://www.singsupplies.com/showthread.php?t=8313&highlight=obama+wins

 

[Maximilian Chua-Heng]

最佳失败 ：袁绍，刘禅

Liu Shan, giving the circumstances he's in, he did a good job saving his own ass.

Come on, there's no way Shu Han would win in the end.

SO Liu Shan is not "fail", at least not amongst the best "fail" for sure.

 

[elephanto]

Strange, even when i was young coming into contact with ROTK for the 1st time, I never had the impression that Liu Bei is a super goody guy.

To me, he is like Song Jiang of Water Margin. Fake Jun Zi !

Visit KongMing 3 times is to show his sincerity.
Run here run there in the end, take over Liu Biao's Jin Zhou .... just lke any politician.

I find him despicable when he tried to show KongMing who's Boss when he ignored advice & then on death bed, so worried that ZhuGe can outplay his son any time that he had to use his last cunning to make his advisor commit to 'serving with loyalty till death'. A cowardly scum.

Cao Cao may be depicted as 'xiao ren' but at least he is an authentic 'xiao ren' who can honestly declare: Rather I wrong the whole world than let the whole world wrong me !

He had fun when he scared the shits out of Liu Bei when he likened Liu & himself as the only true heroes of the land - then thunder struck & Liu Bei used that as excuse for his shocked dropping of chopsticks! Ha ha !

If I had a hero, then only ZhuGeLiang & Zhao Yun are my favourites - even had a porcelain figurine of Kong Ming on my desk many years back...

 

[elephanto]

Three-Kingom Academy Awards 三国金像奖

My nominees are...

最佳战将 ：吕布，马超 许诸，典韦, 赵云

最佳将领 ：周瑜，司马懿 陆逊，吕蒙，邓艾

最佳美女 ：貂蝉，小乔

最佳军师 ：诸葛亮，郭嘉

最佳立业 ：孙策，刘备

最佳失败 ：袁绍，刘禅 何进 （Ho Jing) ， 陈留王/汉献帝

Feel free to add on your favourite nominees and/or award categories.

 

[Alamaking]

To me Zhuge Liang is overrated lah, he's only good as prime minister of Shu in later stage.

His younger days, maybe only "隆中对" and his liasing job with Dong Wu in the battle of Red Cliffs worth mentioning, other than that, nothing

 

[wikiphile]

Wah, so many biculturalists here !

I remember reading in the ROTK, when Cao was feeling supreme at his peak, his advisors did prompt him on declaring himself as Sovereign since power was effectively in his hands & his fame & respect were deemed widespread enough.

Cao, did contemplated & mused on this issue for quite a while.
I believe in the end, he smiled but did not take on the advice.

When queried, I think he said words to the effect that he won't do it, perhaps it is up to his descendents to do so.

I think it is not for lack of ambition - he was a traditionalist who was brought up on the Confucian notions of Heavenly Emperor & Subjects concepts... besides he had fought for Emperor against tyrannical ministers all his life - against the 10 Eunuchs, General Ho, then General Dong Zhuo. So I think he really can't bring himself to usurp the Han Throne, also mindful of how historians will judge him. After all, he is already 一人之下，万人之上 and Emperor is his puppet & real power is in his hands, so, retaining a good loyal name is a more desirable goal. He still needs the moral authority to issue edicts to the other warlords in the Emperor's name.

As to the apparent difference of opinion here whether Cao had declared himself King of Cao, I feel the confusion here is the Chinese word 王。Can be interpreted as 'Lord', 'Duke' of a province, or a high hereditary title.

It is true Cao was bestowed by the Emperor (wayang of course) the title of Lord/Duke/'King' Wei. That is how Wei came to be associated with his family's kingdom title.

These titles are more or less self-engineered - whether Wei, HanZhongWang or WuHou.

As for declaring the title Emperor 帝 upon oneself - was it Liu Bei who did it first or Cao Pi ? Can't remember, think it is Liu.

Of course Liu died early, so his stupid son Ah Dou became Emperor...

Cao Pi tulan also declared himself Emperor. Unlike his Dad, he had no qualms asking the last Han Emperor to abdicate in his favour.

Sun Quan actually is of the same generation as Liu Bei & Cao Cao, but he is the longest living among them - so i think he is last to declare Emperor for himself.

Tio Boh ? salah peiseh !

Cao Cao did not wanted to declare himself Emperor despite holding the reins of power in the by-now puppet court of the Eastern Han Dynasty. He probably knew that it would be much more convincing for his posterity to take the throne and he compared himself to King Wen of Zhou 周文王。
In truth, Cao Cao already was the power behind the throne and effectively controlled Central and North China and from this point onwards already has effectively build up his own power base and need no longer hold the emperor hostage as Emperor Xian is merely a figurehead for a fast crumbling dynasty (狭天子令诸侯)

It was Cao Pi who first declared himself Emperor by forcing Emperor Xian to give up his throne. The ex Emperor however was not killed and was 'demoted' to Duke of Shanyang.

In Shu, Liu Bei upon hearing of the end of the Han Dynasty and the apparent death of Emperor Xian (or merely pretended to), declared himself the Emperor of the 'new' Han Dynasty justifying himself as a descendant of Emperor Gaozu of Han.

Sun Quan at this stage did not immediately declared himself Emperor or even king, merely adopting a wait and see situation. In fact, even at this stage he was still known as 吴侯 or Marquis of Wu until events later finally allowed him to break free of the pretense of loyalties to the fading dynasty and assumed statehood of his territories

 

[Alamaking]

My fav strategist are 郭嘉 and 賈詡

賈詡 contributed a lot in Guandu Battle. He told Cao Cao not to prolong the battle, seize any opportunities to shorten the battle. Cao Cao managed to burn the armies supplies of Yuan Shao and won the battle.

He disapproved Cao Cao fighting in the Red Cliff and also told 曹丕 to stabilize the country 1st before attacking 东吴, both battles ended in defeat.

著名三国评论家易中天在《百家讲坛》中评论到：贾诩能在乱世中审时度势，自己是活得时间最长的，还保全了家人。这才是真正的大智慧，贾诩可能是三国时期最聪明的人。

He was conferred as 太尉，谥曰肃候

 

[wikiphile]

To me Zhuge Liang is overrated lah, he's only good as prime minister of Shu in later stage.

His younger days, maybe only "隆中对" and his liasing job with Dong Wu in the battle of Red Cliffs worth mentioning, other than that, nothing

隆中对 was a flawed strategy from the beginning, by retreating behind a defensible but backward region, Shu was never in a positon to influence events happening on the Central Plains proper.

What he merely did was to prolong the chaos and the inevitable reunification of China via force-of-arms by the strongest state in existence - Cao Wei

 

[Alamaking]

隆中对 was a flawed strategy from the beginning, by retreating behind a defensible but backward region, Shu was never in a positon to influence events happening on the Central Plains proper.

What he merely did was to prolong the chaos and the inevitable reunification of China via force-of-arms by the strongest state in existence - Cao Wei

This 1 i agree

 

[Ramseth]

In 隆中对，诸葛亮 already pointed out diplomatically, there's no possibility of 刘备统一天下，匡扶汉室。Only the possibilty 三分天下有其一。That's why he kept refusing the offer to be 军师， not out humility or arrogance, by out of his own judgment that it'd all be in vain. He was persuaded to take up the task as 三分天下有其一好过一无所有。天时人和地利，总会随时局而变。In the end, the winds of change didn't blow his way.

 

[elephanto]

alamak, spurred by curiosity, just seen Ep 1 of the new ROTK on tudou, is the actor for Zhang Fei, the one you said quite odd, is he the same actor as the one who played 'Black Typhoon' Li Kui in Water Margin ?

Based on Ep 1, I feel this production not so commercially slick like the HK/modern China TV Production. Together with the narrative & background music, very 'China' feel.

Ha ha when the trio introduce themselves, Liu Bei revealed he is presently 28 yrs old - wah, actor looks older than 28 mah ! Anyway, so funny to see them all start to have tears flowing down their cheek, then Zhang Fei pledged his property & loyalty, Guan also, so 3 decided to be sworn bros. So touching !

Yeah, on closer examination ... I believe same actor played Li Kui & Zhang fei here.
Just baidu & check out, alas, despite the similarity, they were actually different actors....