New Romance of 3 Kingdom serial drama is out

[Alamaking]

For those who didn't know, Han Dynasty and Three Kingdoms history was deeply ingrained in Japan as foundation of Japanese civilisation. This is another solid song from Japanese Sanguozhi amime series. In Japanese, with Chinese subtitles.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98Ugv2KccI4

In fact, it's well acknowledged even in China today, that Japanese today behaves more closely to Han Chinese than Chinese in China elsewhere.

Yes, Japanese have Literature lesson based on 三国 and also in Thailand

 

[Ramseth]

Yes, Japanese have Literature lesson based on 三国 and also in Thailand

Yeah, I watched ROTK in Thailand. Liu Bei and Cao Cao etc. spoke in Thai, LOL!. But yeah, don't even need the dubbed TV series, ROTK Thai translated version available in many bookshops in Thailand you can find. If you can't find, call Tonychat find for you.

 

[busdriver111]

"But i am irreplaceable. The best man for Zhuge Liang's role."


​

• Name: 唐国强 / Tang Guo Qiang
• Profession: Actor, director and producer
• Birthdate: 1952-May-04
• Birthplace: Qingdao, Shandong, China
• Height: 178cm
• Star sign: Taurus
• Chinese zodiac: Dragon
• Blood type: B
• Family: Wife/actress Zhuang Li (1993), son (1997) and daughter (1983, from a previous marriage)

​

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Ah... Tang Guoqiang. I think he acted very well as Emperor Yongzheng.

Any fans of that series - Yongzheng Wangchao ?

 

[littlefish]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98Ugv2KccI4

In fact, it's well acknowledged even in China today, that Japanese today behaves more closely to Han Chinese than Chinese in China elsewhere.

This version for those who understand Japanse:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdTdkzh2Kww&feature=related

Many thanks, Ramseth. I was searching for these songs on the internet many years ago but there was no youtube then.

 

[Alamaking]

For those who didn't know, Han Dynasty and Three Kingdoms history was deeply ingrained in Japan as foundation of Japanese civilisation. This is another solid song from Japanese Sanguozhi amime series. In Japanese, with Chinese subtitles.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98Ugv2KccI4

In fact, it's well acknowledged even in China today, that Japanese today behaves more closely to Han Chinese than Chinese in China elsewhere.

This version for those who understand Japanse:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdTdkzh2Kww&feature=related

I have the anime

 

[littlefish]

For those who didn't know, Han Dynasty and Three Kingdoms history was deeply ingrained in Japan as foundation of Japanese civilisation.

Some historians have pointed to the 宋 dynasty as heralding the decline of the Han Chinese. The killing of 岳飞 was probably the final straw.

 

[Ramseth]

Some historians have pointed to the 宋 dynasty as heralding the decline of the Han Chinese. The killing of 岳飞 was probably the final straw.

Yeah, Tang Dynasty is usually marked as the peak and Song Dynasty is usually marked as the trough. The northern half of China fell to Jin Tartars, followed shortly by Mongolians overrunning Jin Tartars and the whole of China. Although Han Chinese made a comeback with Ming Dynasty, a few hundred years later, the Jin Tartars made their own comeback.

Many don't realise that most Manchurians were actually descendants of Jin Tartars who fled north-east during the Mongolian conquests. They quietly built their little kingdom with new hairstyle and costume, trained their soldiers and bided their time. When time came, they overran whole China at blitzkrieg speed unlike the long drawn warfares the old Jin Tartars had with Mongolia and Song China. That was of course Qing Dynasty.

Anyway, by the time of Song Dynasty, Japanese culture has been fully developed and matured, taking in not much more influence from China anymore. It was the period between Han and Tang dynasties that development of Japanese culture was heaviest influenced by Chinese.

 

[littlefish]

Yeah, Tang Dynasty is usually marked as the peak and Song Dynasty is usually marked as the trough.

It is not as simple as that. The historians are painting the 宋 dynasty as the period when Han Chinese started to turn against each other even when faced with a formidable external enemy. That is, it is the period when values like honour, courage and integrity started to be viewed as almost worthless because the people witnessed how those who displayed such values were punished rather than rewarded on a massive scale. There was a brief revival with the 明 dynasty but it was not really much better than the 宋 dynasty and the views have become too deeply ingrained by then.

 

[Ramseth]

Those who thinks Liu Bei and the gang are the good guys and Cao Cao is a villain, i PUI! you

Liu Bei declared himself as Han Zhong Wang, while Cao Cao never declared himself as a King. So who's the traitor of Han dynasty in the end?

There were no heroes. Heroes are figments of romanticisation. Both were warlords and politicians.

Liu Bei claimed title King Han Zhong as he conquered Han Zhong and claimed the same as his ancestor Liu Bang (who began serious power as King Han Zhong too), also founder of Han Dynasty and ancestor to Liu Xie, then current Emperor Han Xiandi, who addressed Liu Bei as uncle.

Cao Cao claimed title of King Wei too. Both Liu Bei as King Han Zhong and Cao Cao as King Wei were officially sanctioned by the Emperor. That is, they petitioned the Emperor and the Emperor approved and conferred. Proper titular awards to Liu Bei as Imperial Uncle who reclaimed Han Zhong, and Cao Cao as Prime Minister who acted as Imperial Protector, both then still acknowledging the Emperor of the Han Dynasty.

It was Cao Pi (son of Cao Cao) who usurped the Imperial Throne and proclaimed himself Emperor Wei Wendi of the new Wei Dynasty (also conferring posthumous title of Emperor Wei Wudi on Cao Cao). In order to upkeep continuance of Han Dynasty at least in name, Liu Bei countered by proclaiming himself Emperor Han Zhaolie in succession of the Han imperial lineage. Followed by, Sun Quan, King of Wu acknowledging the previous Han Emperor but not Liu Bei, proclaimed himself Emperor Wu Dadi. Technically, that's the real beginning of the three kingdoms, after Cao Cao's death and three emperors emerged.

Cao family was usually slandered as fosters of eunuchs. However, Cao Cao and Cao Zi (another son of his) left behind two of the greatest poems in three-kingdom era. Cao Cao's Duange Xing and Cao Zi's Qibu Shi.

 

[makapaaa]

http://tv.sohu.com/20100502/n271886821.shtml

 

[Wang Ye]

Those who thinks Liu Bei and the gang are the good guys and Cao Cao is a villain, i PUI! you

Liu Bei declared himself as Han Zhong Wang, while Cao Cao never declared himself as a King. So who's the traitor of Han dynasty in the end?

Cao Cao beheaded those historic writers who only wrote his achievements but never wrote his ruthlessness.

Cao Cao only bow down to 1 person, its not the King, but to his 1st wife who left him because she was tired travelling with him and he regrets for letting her go.

Heeheehee I sense someone trying to test my SGZ

Actually his wife left him because she never forgave him for causing the death of her son Cao Ang (adopted by her and was treated like her own son) at the hands of Zhang Xiu. Even after pleading with her still she refused to forgive him and return to him. Even in death he still felt he had let her down.

 

[Alamaking]

There were no heroes. Heroes are figments of romanticisation. Both were warlords and politicians.

Cao Cao claimed title of King Wei too. Both Liu Bei as King Han Zhong and Cao Cao as King Wei were officially sanctioned by the Emperor. That is, they petitioned the Emperor and the Emperor approved and conferred. Proper titular awards to Liu Bei as Imperial Uncle who reclaimed Han Zhong, and Cao Cao as Prime Minister who acted as Imperial Protector, both then still acknowledging the Emperor of the Han Dynasty.

You are wrong bro, Cao Cao died, Cao Pi declared himself as Wei Wang, followed by Liu Bei as Hanzong Wang, Sun Quan followed DongWu Wang. Cao Cao never proclaimed himself as a king.

 

[Alamaking]

Heeheehee I sense someone trying to test my SGZ

Actually his wife left him because she never forgave him for causing the death of her son Cao Ang (adopted by her and was treated like her own son) at the hands of Zhang Xiu. Even after pleading with her still she refused to forgive him and return to him. Even in death he still felt he had let her down.

Ah yes.. thats part of the reason too, you are right :p:p:p

 

[Alamaking]

Cao Cao's 5 great Strategist:
郭嘉
程昱
荀彧
荀攸
賈詡

All died young except 程昱 and 賈詡, 郭嘉 died of illness, 荀彧 and 荀攸 were beheaded by Cao Cao because they opposed Cao Cao of building Wei Empire, they want to restore the Han Dynasty.

 

[po2wq]

tis 1 no goot meh? ... 司马懿 ...

 

[Alamaking]

tis 1 no goot meh? ... 司马懿 ...

司马懿 only appear after 三分天下已定, he served more time with Cao Pi and Cao Rui

 

[Ramseth]

You are wrong bro, Cao Cao died, Cao Pi declared himself as Wei Wang, followed by Liu Bei as Hanzong Wang, Sun Quan followed DongWu Wang. Cao Cao never proclaimed himself as a king.

Sorry bro, despite your obvious passion about three-kingdom history, it's you who're wrong this time. Check your history books. Cao Cao was King Wei. It's common during that era for Emperor to confer kingships on high achievers. Nothing treacherous about that as long in formality and title. This practice persisted all the way to Ming and Qing. Wu Sangui, for example, was conferred King Pingnan by the Qing Emperor. Even in the west, in Roman Empire, there was King Herod of Judea under Emperor Caesar.

However, in later part of Chinese history, a Wang in title without an autonomous kingdom-sized territority, was considered honorary titular king only, and often translated as Prince instead of King.

 

[Alamaking]

Sorry bro, despite your obvious passion about three-kingdom history, it's you who're wrong this time. Check your history books. Cao Cao was King Wei.....

I think its the difference between 王 and 帝 bah, from what i've read, Cao Cao never wanted to be the ruler in China, or maybe he couldnt do it in his life, who knows? LOL

 

[Ramseth]

I think its the difference between 王 and 帝 bah, from what i've read, Cao Cao never wanted to be the ruler in China, or maybe he couldnt do it in his life, who knows? LOL

Yes, that's the difference, now you've got it.

Ultimately, it's about sovereign monarchy 君主 or 天子. Cao Cao didn't want that, cause that won't mean treachery to Han Emperor. That part you're right.

 

[elephanto]

I think its the difference between 王 and 帝 bah, from what i've read, Cao Cao never wanted to be the ruler in China, or maybe he couldnt do it in his life, who knows? LOL

Wah, so many biculturalists here !

I remember reading in the ROTK, when Cao was feeling supreme at his peak, his advisors did prompt him on declaring himself as Sovereign since power was effectively in his hands & his fame & respect were deemed widespread enough.

Cao, did contemplated & mused on this issue for quite a while.
I believe in the end, he smiled but did not take on the advice.

When queried, I think he said words to the effect that he won't do it, perhaps it is up to his descendents to do so.

I think it is not for lack of ambition - he was a traditionalist who was brought up on the Confucian notions of Heavenly Emperor & Subjects concepts... besides he had fought for Emperor against tyrannical ministers all his life - against the 10 Eunuchs, General Ho, then General Dong Zhuo. So I think he really can't bring himself to usurp the Han Throne, also mindful of how historians will judge him. After all, he is already 一人之下，万人之上 and Emperor is his puppet & real power is in his hands, so, retaining a good loyal name is a more desirable goal. He still needs the moral authority to issue edicts to the other warlords in the Emperor's name.

As to the apparent difference of opinion here whether Cao had declared himself King of Cao, I feel the confusion here is the Chinese word 王。Can be interpreted as 'Lord', 'Duke' of a province, or a high hereditary title.

It is true Cao was bestowed by the Emperor (wayang of course) the title of Lord/Duke/'King' Wei. That is how Wei came to be associated with his family's kingdom title.

These titles are more or less self-engineered - whether Wei, HanZhongWang or WuHou.

As for declaring the title Emperor 帝 upon oneself - was it Liu Bei who did it first or Cao Pi ? Can't remember, think it is Liu.

Of course Liu died early, so his stupid son Ah Dou became Emperor...

Cao Pi tulan also declared himself Emperor. Unlike his Dad, he had no qualms asking the last Han Emperor to abdicate in his favour.

Sun Quan actually is of the same generation as Liu Bei & Cao Cao, but he is the longest living among them - so i think he is last to declare Emperor for himself.

Tio Boh ? salah peiseh !