New Romance of 3 Kingdom serial drama is out

[Alamaking]

Lol, so far my analysist was based on Mr Yi Zhong Tian all along, I watched his 44th episode of his talk. He did said Liu Bei good at 2 things, 1 is run, 2nd is cry. When did Mr Yi Zhong Tian said Cao Cao was a sore loser. And to Mr Yi Zhong Tian analysist, he's a pro Cao Cao, that's why I'm surprised he gave me the link.

What's earthquake got to do with Chendu in 3 kingdoms? I reAlly dun understand. He keeps saying he went to Chengdu and what he said is right, what a joke

 

[Alamaking]

I never said Cao Cao is good, I said he accomplished the most in that era. You like to put words in other people's mouth. I said Ba Shu people dun support Liu Bei, u said I said Ba Shu people hates Liu Bei.

I never said zhuge is half pass seven, you said I said it, eeeeeeeee why u like that 1? Lol

 

[Maximilian Chua-Heng]

Lol, so far my analysist was based on Mr Yi Zhong Tian all along, I watched his 44th episode of his talk. He did said Liu Bei good at 2 things, 1 is run, 2nd is cry. When did Mr Yi Zhong Tian said Cao Cao was a sore loser. And to Mr Yi Zhong Tian analysist, he's a pro Cao Cao, that's why I'm surprised he gave me the link.

What's earthquake got to do with Chendu in 3 kingdoms? I reAlly dun understand. He keeps saying he went to Chengdu and what he said is right, what a joke

Think he meant Zhuge Liang had the foresight to make Chengdu the capital which was largely earthquake-proof despite being on a quake belt.

 

[Alamaking]

Think he meant Zhuge Liang had the foresight to make Chengdu the capital which was largely earthquake-proof despite being on a quake belt.

And you also believe his theory? Lol

 

[Subok]

And im surprise you you gave me the link to yi zhong tian bai jia jiang tan, you mean you dun agree with him that Cao Cao is the hero of that times? LOL
I dun think yi zhong tian ever mentioned Cao Cao was a sore loser, LOL

Please watch everything. Cao Cao as I had said was an accomplished STATESMAN but one that place his life above his own people IMHO will not count as a true Hero. And please followed through on other episodes. In fact even in this current episode I posted, the professor did say even Cao Cao regard himself without the demure of an emperor.

The more you go on, the more you are proving, "win the arguments at all cost".

In my replies put forth, I pay attention to WHAT I believe and WHAT history is as punctuated with "I believe" or "of the view" etc.

Ok if this make you happy, you win la. now you can go back playing your RTK 6 or 7.

Likewise IT WILL go down on HISTORY of Singapore that Mr LKY is the "Hero" of Singapore. Now would you dispute historical annals or based on your preference?

As for me, my stand is what history present will be the notarized truth, however how we choose to compartmentalized the truth as good or evil is very much subjective.

Historical records of Cao Cao using his own soldiers as "bridging tools" for his cavalries and his own entourage is a FACT not presented in the Romance of Three Kingdoms which seem you who "claimed" to had read the historical records did not refute nor agree. Hence leading to the conclusion that somewhat you are not totally truthful about facts or you chose to hide the facts not in favor of your preferred "Hero". That act alone disgust me.

Of recent/of late, there were a cliché in the christian community that they used when caught in situation that they are not sure what to do, they will ask themselves "WWJD" - What would Jesus do? Likewise, going back to the retreat march of Cao Cao after the defeat @ Chibi, using his own soldiers' bodies as foot slabs for his cavalry and if Liu Bei would to be switched to latter's position, WWLBD? What would Liu Bei do? I am not sure, BUT what I am SURE is, Liu Bei would not lay waste any lives especially those that fought wars with him to be used a mere foot slabs for his cavalry.

I guessed we had all witnessed, read, or even for some, experienced the authoritarian style of leadership, leaning towards oppression and even dictatorship, Liu Bei offers a more humane, benevolent styled leadership that the world rarely sees. This I believe is one of the key virtues that set Liu Bei - a gold standard of leadership.

And it is precisely of this virtue, Liu Bei attracts more talented generals than those of other warlords, who often attracts talent that were drawn to perhaps money, power rather than noble aspirations and virtuous ethics. This proved to be the stinking point where most people whether past or present is divided. Money and power put rice on the table, noble aspirations and virtuous ethics feed the soul but pauper the bodies.

 

[Subok]

And you also believe his theory? Lol

Sorry, it is not MY theory, it is a KNOWN wisdom among all dynasties. Before a city is fortified as a capital, the emperor will consult all the learned geomacers, astrologist etc before building it.

And this is the FACT that all fortified capitals of ancient dynasties ALMOST all if not all still standing strong today despite being in areas notorious for earthquakes.

*sigh* - so much for a learned opponent - .

 

[Maximilian Chua-Heng]

Finished watching Ep 28.

Wah piang.. tonight Yuan Shao flip-flopping until don't recognise home again.

Is this based on San Guo Zhi also?

 

[Subok]

I never said Cao Cao is good, I said he accomplished the most in that era. You like to put words in other people's mouth. I said Ba Shu people dun support Liu Bei, u said I said Ba Shu people hates Liu Bei.

I never said zhuge is half pass seven, you said I said it, eeeeeeeee why u like that 1? Lol

Please go on gerrymandering avoiding whenever possible. A kingdom build with own blood shed on own turf is not a kingdom but a tyrannized land. A kingdom build on mercy and benevolence rules beyond its boundaries.

You do not even know that capitals of almost all dynasties stood the test of natural calamities - NOT by chance, but by carefully calculated geographical considerations of all elements of wood, fire, earth, metal, and water. And please for goodness sake, I have no copyright to these established knwoledge then and it is definitely not "MY THEORY" as you claimed - notably due to your ignorance of such studies and HISTORICAL practices, which incidentally evidently displayed in almost all if not all of your arguments put forth.

And again I shall put forth in record boldly that what I know of the chronicles of the warring era is only worth a "penny" as compared to many others in this forum and beyond but enough to out-weights your "pound" worth of knowledge.

I concede.... to your "pound" wisdom and knowledge.

 

[Alamaking]

Please watch everything. Cao Cao as I had said was an accomplished STATESMAN but one that place his life above his own people IMHO will not count as a true Hero. And please followed through on other episodes. In fact even in this current episode I posted, the professor did say even Cao Cao regard himself without the demure of an emperor.

The more you go on, the more you are proving, "win the arguments at all cost".

In my replies put forth, I pay attention to WHAT I believe and WHAT history is as punctuated with "I believe" or "of the view" etc.

Ok if this make you happy, you win la. now you can go back playing your RTK 6 or 7.

Likewise IT WILL go down on HISTORY of Singapore that Mr LKY is the "Hero" of Singapore. Now would you dispute historical annals or based on your preference?

As for me, my stand is what history present will be the notarized truth, however how we choose to compartmentalized the truth as good or evil is very much subjective.

Historical records of Cao Cao using his own soldiers as "bridging tools" for his cavalries and his own entourage is a FACT not presented in the Romance of Three Kingdoms which seem you who "claimed" to had read the historical records did not refute nor agree. Hence leading to the conclusion that somewhat you are not totally truthful about facts or you chose to hide the facts not in favor of your preferred "Hero". That act alone disgust me.

Of recent/of late, there were a cliché in the christian community that they used when caught in situation that they are not sure what to do, they will ask themselves "WWJD" - What would Jesus do? Likewise, going back to the retreat march of Cao Cao after the defeat @ Chibi, using his own soldiers' bodies as foot slabs for his cavalry and if Liu Bei would to be switched to latter's position, WWLBD? What would Liu Bei do? I am not sure, BUT what I am SURE is, Liu Bei would not lay waste any lives especially those that fought wars with him to be used a mere foot slabs for his cavalry.

I guessed we had all witnessed, read, or even for some, experienced the authoritarian style of leadership, leaning towards oppression and even dictatorship, Liu Bei offers a more humane, benevolent styled leadership that the world rarely sees. This I believe is one of the key virtues that set Liu Bei - a gold standard of leadership.

And it is precisely of this virtue, Liu Bei attracts more talented generals than those of other warlords, who often attracts talent that were drawn to perhaps money, power rather than noble aspirations and virtuous ethics. This proved to be the stinking point where most people whether past or present is divided. Money and power put rice on the table, noble aspirations and virtuous ethics feed the soul but pauper the bodies.

I feel you talk a lot, but lack depth, LOL. Its not that i want to win in an arguments, Ramseth corrected me, did i argue with him? Your comment about Cao Cao being a sore loser also irks me

 

[Alamaking]

Sorry, it is not MY theory, it is a KNOWN wisdom among all dynasties. Before a city is fortified as a capital, the emperor will consult all the learned geomacers, astrologist etc before building it.

And this is the FACT that all fortified capitals of ancient dynasty ALMOST all if not all still standing strong today despite being in areas notorious for earthquakes.

*sigh* - so much for a learned opponent - .

"His' theory meant for Zhuge, not you, you think too highly of yourself

 

[Alamaking]

Finished watching Ep 28.

Wah piang.. tonight Yuan Shao flip-flopping until don't recognise home again.

Is this based on San Guo Zhi also?

Yuan Shao failed because of his indecisiveness, internal fights between generals, too many 奸人 besides him, hahaha...

 

[Subok]

"His' theory meant for Zhuge, not you, you think too highly of yourself

Where "HIS" or "mine" or Ah de Ah Gao, ah ngeow does not matter anymore. Throw a pebble into an empty vessel, it makes noise.

My sincere apologies for the resonating sound of emptiness from cavity above your brain stem caused by a penny.

 

[Subok]

Yuan Shao failed because of his indecisiveness, internal fights between generals, too many 奸人 besides him, hahaha...

I guessed you did not fail to prove your point.... I meant to say your "pound"

 

[Alamaking]

Where "HIS" or "mine" or Ah de Ah Gao, ah ngeow does not matter anymore. Throw a pebble into an empty vessel, it makes noise.

My sincere apologies for the resonating sound of emptiness from cavity above your brain stem caused by a penny.

Yeah right... you are so full of wisdom
5 Tigers, Sore loser, as you said, so true, LOL

 

[Subok]

I feel you talk a lot, but lack depth, LOL. Its not that i want to win in an arguments, Ramseth corrected me, did i argue with him? Your comment about Cao Cao being a sore loser also irks me

What I did irks about you or trigger the resonating sound from you, is my believe that Cao Cao is a sore loser and not because I stated categorically that a leader that uses his own army's bodies for his own stallion to gallops upon is no leader to me.

A leader leads his followers not had them as footstools.

BTW any deeper, you will get lost as it is now, you are gerrymandering OUTSIDE the arguments. You choose to based your FACTS on FINE details WHICH do not add or subtract in anyway in a given notion put forth. In short summary for your benefit, "Just as the 5 "tigers" held Liu Bei in high regards, so do I" - As a worthy opponents or learned opponent as your per claim of being thorough breed of those who read the chronicles of warring era rather than watch the romanticized version on CCTV, you should put forth arguments that "these tigers DID NOT hold Liu Bei in high regards" and not hold hostage the technicality of my statement that it was only 4 "Tigers" therefore statement out forth by me thereafter is flawed.

How conveniently you "wisely" adverted others from hearing the resonating echoes - ..... ..... ..... ..... ... . .. . . . . .

Lest I be seen not being benevolent taking to task the ignorance and bigotry of a self styled learned experts on the chronicles of the era of the warring state, please forgive my penny worth Vis-à-vis your pound weighted wisdom.

I rest my case.

 

[Alamaking]

What I did irks about you or trigger the resonating sound from you, is my believe that Cao Cao is a sore loser and not because I stated categorically that a leader that uses his own army's bodies for his own stallion to gallops upon is no leader to me.

A leader leads his followers not had them as footstools.

BTW any deeper, you will get lost as it is now, you are gerrymandering OUTSIDE the arguments. You choose to based your FACTS on FINE details WHICH do not add or subtract in anyway in a given notion put forth. In short summary for your benefit, "Just as the 5 "tigers" held Liu Bei in high regards, so do I" - As a worthy opponents or learned opponent as your per claim of being thorough breed of those who read the chronicles of warring era rather than watch the romanticized version on CCTV, you should put forth arguments that "these tigers DID NOT hold Liu Bei in high regards" and not hold hostage the technicality of my statement that it was only 4 "Tigers" therefore statement out forth by me thereafter is flawed.

How conveniently you "wisely" adverted others from hearing the resonating echoes - ..... ..... ..... ..... ... . .. . . . . .

Lest I be seen not being benevolent taking to task the ignorance and bigotry of a self styled learned experts on the chronicles of the era of the warring state, please forgive my penny worth Vis-à-vis your pound weighted wisdom.

I rest my case.

Yes, i agree, you wisdom greatly inspire me, i'm just an empty vessel.
5 tigers generals do exist, and Cao Cao was a sore loser, great analysist

 

[Alamaking]

All these wrote by Busok about 三国志 in this thread, i never edit hor :p

Cao Cao did not succeed because he do not enjoy populace support. He was a sore loser and sore at being a loser therefore he "rather killed the wronged than to be let the wronged go"

I bought the entire VCD Collections YEARS back and watched over 4 times already.
I even did my "ON PAPER TALK SOLDIER" by taking it as far as visiting the capital of Shu Kingdon a.k.a. Ba Shu a.k.a Sichuan Province - Chengdu. Had you?

Many even today and even some on this forum speak ill of Liu Bei as a simpleton, useless and attained nothing in his reign. But I would defer largely on the grounds that since Guan Yu, Zhang Fei and the others in the 5 tigers Generals league, ascribed to Liu Bei's leadership, speaks voluminous.

Not only Liu Bei's tomb was well kept, the people of Chengdu refused any archaeological work to be done to the tomb. One of the tomb believed to be inside the Temple WuHou Shi where he was buried with his wife, Xiao Qiao. (I believe should be 甘夫人:Alamaking)

Yes, i love noises Me empty vessel. Great analysis by Subok, bravo :p:p:p
I rest my case also, LOL

 

[goldenmonkey]

1st, san guo yan yi and san guo zhi is clearly different. In yan yi, as they said, it is 70% history 30% fiction.

The worship of Zhuge/Guan Yu/Liu Bei etc were inspired by later dynasties who thought supporting the "true bloodline of Liu" was important. Surely, as one can think, historians cant write Shu as "holy" during Wei or Jin rule right?

Guan Yu himself was "promoted" by emperors several times after his time and elevated to the level of goddness. Similarly, what we see of Zhuge nowadays has been the work of later dynasties.

I have been greatly inspired by the "borrowing of eastern wind", "setting fire at Changban", "empty castle trick", "Zhuge mimicking god to ward off Wei" since young, however I need to concede they are works of drama-style writtings.

Zhuge, however, was a man of great achiever for the following';
1. He was a man of primer minister callibre, because he had great political charm and ability to accept differences in opinions (Yi Zhong Tian acknowledge this)
2. He was a great inventor of science (works of Kong min lantern, making salt in the poverish state of Shu, the triple-firing bow, the "wooden cow flowing horse" style cart - which was lost)
3. He was a great astronomer and skilled in fortune teller(His work on Zhuge Shenxun was still very popular among fortune teller - I am a fan)
4. He was a upright and rightoues person (but the problem was he expect the same for ALL his officials, which left Shu with a medicore front general named Liao Hua near the end of his reign as Prime minister. Jiang Wei played his role after that)
5. The subdue of nanman Kings such as Meng Huo is true. And they did not rebel again during Han control of Shu. (the 7 captures might be fictional?)
6. His idea to restore the kingdom to the rightful "Han decesadants - Xian di" rather than for Liu Bei to claim king might have caused the bad blood between the two (Yi Zhong Tian).


Frankly, I do think Yi Zhong Tian bullshit a little even though I admire his in-depth knowledgh of the 2 books. He also made the history part more interesting. Same for the romance of the 3 kingdoms, which had reached much more further than actual records and made many to believe it as the actual records.

No more fightings or nasty reply to me pls

 

[Alamaking]

1st, san guo yan yi and san guo zhi is clearly different. In yan yi, as they said, it is 70% history 30% fiction.

The worship of Zhuge/Guan Yu/Liu Bei etc were inspired by later dynasties who thought supporting the "true bloodline of Liu" was important. Surely, as one can think, historians cant write Shu as "holy" during Wei or Jin rule right?

Guan Yu himself was "promoted" by emperors several times after his time and elevated to the level of goddness. Similarly, what we see of Zhuge nowadays has been the work of later dynasties.

I have been greatly inspired by the "borrowing of eastern wind", "setting fire at Changban", "empty castle trick", "Zhuge mimicking god to ward off Wei" since young, however I need to concede they are works of drama-style writtings.

Zhuge, however, was a man of great achiever for the following';
1. He was a man of primer minister callibre, because he had great political charm and ability to accept differences in opinions (Yi Zhong Tian acknowledge this)
2. He was a great inventor of science (works of Kong min lantern, making salt in the poverish state of Shu, the triple-firing bow, the "wooden cow flowing horse" style cart - which was lost)
3. He was a great astronomer and skilled in fortune teller(His work on Zhuge Shenxun was still very popular among fortune teller - I am a fan)
4. He was a upright and rightoues person (but the problem was he expect the same for ALL his officials, which left Shu with a medicore front general named Liao Hua near the end of his reign as Prime minister. Jiang Wei played his role after that)
5. The subdue of nanman Kings such as Meng Huo is true. And they did not rebel again during Han control of Shu. (the 7 captures might be fictional?)
6. His idea to restore the kingdom to the rightful "Han decesadants - Xian di" rather than for Liu Bei to claim king might have caused the bad blood between the two (Yi Zhong Tian).


Frankly, I do think Yi Zhong Tian bullshit a little even though I admire his in-depth knowledgh of the 2 books. He also made the history part more interesting. Same for the romance of the 3 kingdoms, which had reached much more further than actual records and made many to believe it as the actual records.

No more fightings or nasty reply to me pls

Well said, as i've said before, his greatest achievements was on his later part of his life, as the Prime Minister of Shu.

So is Zhuge a great strategist in wars? to me, i dun think so

 

[elephanto]

wow ! subok vs alamaking, even right into the night 3+am, gosh !

Many disputes among forummers on this subject arise because it's an apples vs orange argument.

Everyone knows there is San Guo Zhi & there is San Guo Yan Yi.

If the subject thread here is discussing the TV serial based on San Guo Yan Yi then even if it is part fiction, let's ascribe to the characters their characteristics according to the novel (historical fiction).

Yes, interesting to know historically, it is not like this or like that, but thank you very much, that's another subject altogether. We are talking about Romance of 3 kingdoms. If there are 5 tigers in ROTK, then let's stick to 5 even though it is good to know SanGuoZhi says only 4 Tigers or stuff like that.

Only when one engage like with like then is the discussion meaningful.

As for the 'I have visited Chengdu, have you?' type of repose, really uncalled for. If you had the means & interest to have visited such & such a place, good for you.

In any case, everyone is entitled to how they want to interpret characters/events & where/what their prefer or favour. However, they should be sporting enough if others correct any typo or data inaccuracies (e.g. whether it is XiaoQiao or Gan FuRen)