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Mr Lee still says it is not his fault

If i may interrupt,

You are saying we should vote for a monkey just to balance the scales against the pap, but yet you recognize it is a monkey you are voting for.

What way out of this conumdrum? Democracy has always been decsribed as the tyranny of the majority. And the philosopher king is but a dream waiting to turn into a nightmare.

You know what would happen if you had a monkey for an MP? You would be able to get it to sign your deferment letter just by waving a banana at it. And you could deny Lim Swee Say a place in parliament. You see, I subscribe to the notion of self-interest. I do not believe that politicians or anyone else besides myself act with my best interests in mind. It's just cognitively impossible for them to do so. How many human lives have been ruined by the well-intentioned interests of benevolent dictators? My self-interest lies in weakening my oppressors e.g. PAP. If it takes a monkey to do that, so be it.

"Either fraternity is spontaneous, or it does not exist. To decree it is to annihilate it. The law can indeed force men to remain just; in vain would it would try to force them to be self-sacrificing." - Frédéric Bastiat
 
Bump for a great idea

Forcing people to eat fruits and vegetables is another great idea, I think. We should start with sheep like you. Meet the daily requirement for apples and broccoli or face severe fines and/or jail terms. :rolleyes:
 
Cruxx said:
1. There's a reason why they are called the "pseudo-opposition" rather than the "ruling party". They have to at least pretend that they are opposed to the PAP.

1. If what you described as the pseudo-opposition party is true, then the "true opposition" will only be 20% of the electorate. What a miserable figure it is? What right has it to make any noise?

2. Trust me. What Pritam Singh said about coalition govt, which other parties did not say but if all were to be given the offer, these other parties would not be the first to decline the offer because to be realistic, which party do you think will be offered the right to form a coalition govt? At it is the several opposition parties are fighting on several, varied platforms. Can anything useful come out of this? Don't be naive.

3. Regarding the Ministerial salaries, again let's be realistic even if you envy the million dollar salaries and which we all like to attack, including myself, what level could we realistic bring it down to, without being cynical? Given the rise of civil service salaries, albeit a bad idea but as the Chinese says it is already cooked rice, and GLC top salaries, not just the CEOs but the whole jing gang, can we realistic expect ministers to draw a lot less than all these?

As it is, some GLC CEOs today are in fact drawing salaries that are two, three times that of a top minister's pay. Yes, can we change this situation and adopt a salary structure similar to, say, the US govt (remember that Bernacke is only drawing around US$200k a year, much lower than a PS, DS or a director of a division's pay)? Technically yes, practically you need several years of gradual salary adjustment to get this done without causing a major problem particularly in the property and financial market but generally throughout the economy. Given this situation, I don't begrudge the Ministers their salaries but I will make noise about it for the way it is is after several years of wrong policies, something that cannot be reversed overnight.

I, therefore, do not blame the WP for not making more noise on this. To take from a Chinese saying again: If you are riding a tiger, it is very difficult to get down. I blame the WP for not benchmarking it against the median salary, a missed opportunity because I believe the median salary is where the bulk of our problem lies. Correct that and everything will fall in place, high end, low end. The rulers of this country should have this common link with the average guy. But when Prof Lim proposed his salary restructuring and when Prof Tommy Koh indirectly supported his proposal that it would have little impact on the competitiveness of our economy by differentiating tradable from non-tradable components of costs, again I heard a lot of noise, the key reason I gathered seemed to be these two gentlemen had been used by the govt to advance certain policies in the past.

Do we in the Opposition really knows what we are after? Do we know what we want? I am not fully convinced. If we want to remain forever as an opposition, perhaps making noise is the right approach to win votes. But if we wish to change Singapore and displace what we view as bad, we need to do a lot more.
 
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if there hadn't been 2child policy back then, maybe each couple will have 3 or more..or at least the % of them having 3 or more will be higher. these children then will be adults now, who are responsible for reproducing. if there are less "machines" now (because less being made previously), i can infer that its the 2 child policy back then that cause the problem.

LKY govt did not forsee this problem? they like short term measure - like how they flood singapore with imports without rgards to the infrastructure.

You wanna reduce the birth rate? Simple. Make the cuntry prosper. Prosperity is the best contraceptive. The more inclined people are to accumulate wealth, the less inclined they are to redistribute it to others, including their own family. Punishing people for wanting to have a family size of their choice is immoral. Kuan Yew himself didn't stop at two, did he? :rolleyes:
 
You wanna reduce the birth rate? Simple. Make the cuntry prosper. Prosperity is the best contraceptive. The more inclined people are to accumulate wealth, the less inclined they are to redistribute it to others, including their own family. Punishing people for wanting to have a family size of their choice is immoral. Kuan Yew himself didn't stop at two, did he? :rolleyes:

scandavian countries have high birth rates n they are prosperous too. it does not mean poverty = high birth rates. it can be done.
just whether they wanna do it or not.
 
1. If what you described as the pseudo-opposition party is true, then the "true opposition" will only be 20% of the electorate. What a miserable figure it is? What right has it to make any noise?

Because every human being, no matter how small and insignificant, has the right to do what's best for himself. What's the difference between 20% and 40% anyway? It's still the minority. Do you think you've no right to make any noise? :rolleyes:

2. Trust me. What Pritam Singh said about coalition govt, which other parties did not say but if all were to be given the offer, these other parties would not be the first to decline the offer because to be realistic, which party do you think will be offered the right to form a coalition govt? At it is the several opposition parties are fighting on several, varied platforms. Can anything useful come out of this? Don't be naive.

I've no qualms with people wanting to form coalitions. I was pointing out the fact that he, an opposition MP, had no scruples about vowing to form a coalition government to keep PAP in power. When is it ever the responsibility of any party to keep another party in power? :rolleyes:

3. The Ministerial salaries. Again let's be realistic even if you envy the million dollar salaries and which we all like to attack, including myself.

Realistic = false consciousness of the PAPzis. You wanna submit to the "reality" conjured up by the PAPzis, go ahead. The success of Team GB in the Olympics was a tight slap to the Sinkie notion that the talented can only be motivated by money. :rolleyes:
 
You wanna reduce the birth rate? Simple. Make the cuntry prosper. Prosperity is the best contraceptive. The more inclined people are to accumulate wealth, the less inclined they are to redistribute it to others, including their own family. Punishing people for wanting to have a family size of their choice is immoral. Kuan Yew himself didn't stop at two, did he? :rolleyes:

Remove the "Old fart" it will make the population prosper at the Maternity wards...maybe that is what we need, that incentive, better than money!
 
scandavian countries have high birth rates n they are prosperous too. it does not mean poverty = high birth rates. it can be done.
just whether they wanna do it or not.

As I've said, selfish people hate to redistribute their money. It's taboo in Scandinavia to aspire to great wealth. Why else do you think their taxes are so damn high? Socialist France has a similar culture. And surprise, surprise, their fertility rate is among the highest in Europe. But of course, this is just a crude correlation. Reality is much more nuanced than what I described.
 
Cruxx said:
Because every human being, no matter how small and insignificant, has the right to do what's best for himself. What's the difference between 20% and 40% anyway? It's still the minority. Do you think you've no right to make any noise?

Everyone can make noise however minor but we better hope it is 40% and not just 20% otherwise those voices will be drown out. And please don't let this 20% drown out the other 20%. It is counter-productive.

I am not replying to the other points because I believe I have said enough.
 
Cruxx said:
As I've said, selfish people hate to redistribute their money. It's taboo in Scandinavia to aspire to great wealth. Why else do you think their taxes are so damn high? Socialist France has a similar culture. And surprise, surprise, their fertility rate is among the highest in Europe. But of course, this is just a crude correlation. Reality is much more nuanced than what I described.

There is a lot of BS said about our TFR. I don't think this govt has done enough. Maybe they are just plain lazy.
 
LKY in the sixties mandated stop at two policy or else you pay thru the nose with the birth of your third child who may not get into school.... Then GCT era followed by LHL promulgated policies which adversely affected population growth due to their invested interests ,,,,, bigger bonuses for MIW....... like more FTs, sgians becoming third class citizens paying lots of money for everything while non citizens enjoy the fruits of our labour/
Now gahmen want to have our ideas how to fix this problems. What a joke. They fucked it up so badly over the decades while drawing mega bucks salaries n now asking someone else to fix the problem////
 
Remove the "Old fart" it will make the population prosper at the Maternity wards...maybe that is what we need, that incentive, better than money!

I think the LEE family claim superiority of their genes........ incl albino
 

The two child policy was great for singapore at that time. It ended a long time ago. So how can anyone possibly accuse him of our low fertility? Why blame others for your own failures?

Many fertile couple sterilised themselves after second child......... how to reverse?
 
LKY in the sixties mandated stop at two policy or else you pay thru the nose with the birth of your third child who may not get into school.... Then GCT era followed by LHL promulgated policies which adversely affected population growth due to their invested interests ,,,,, bigger bonuses for MIW....... like more FTs, sgians becoming third class citizens paying lots of money for everything while non citizens enjoy the fruits of our labour/
Now gahmen want to have our ideas how to fix this problems. What a joke. They fucked it up so badly over the decades while drawing mega bucks salaries n now asking someone else to fix the problem////

Mandated? In the 60s?
Pay thru the nose? My dad was a taxi driver and had 7 kids. He didn't have to pay thru the nose.
We were poor, didn't have much luxuries but all of us turned out great. There is no excuse for not having at least 2 kids per couple.
 
You know what would happen if you had a monkey for an MP? You would be able to get it to sign your deferment letter just by waving a banana at it. And you could deny Lim Swee Say a place in parliament. You see, I subscribe to the notion of self-interest. I do not believe that politicians or anyone else besides myself act with my best interests in mind. It's just cognitively impossible for them to do so. How many human lives have been ruined by the well-intentioned interests of benevolent dictators? My self-interest lies in weakening my oppressors e.g. PAP. If it takes a monkey to do that, so be it.

"Either fraternity is spontaneous, or it does not exist. To decree it is to annihilate it. The law can indeed force men to remain just; in vain would it would try to force them to be self-sacrificing." - Frédéric Bastiat

there is neither a right nor wrong way, but only the consequences of a way.

your perspective will change if you are the leader of singapore.

and perhaps you should be. or could be.
 
Forcing people to eat fruits and vegetables is another great idea, I think. We should start with sheep like you. Meet the daily requirement for apples and broccoli or face severe fines and/or jail terms. :rolleyes:

because man is no longer able to govern himself, so he should be governed. what difference to be governed by Man or God?

the powerful control, the powerless obey.

you can type all you want, but anarchism will not come to pass by typing. because the actions of sheep, are more powerful than the typing of intellectuals.
 
Kinana said:
Mandated? In the 60s?
Pay thru the nose? My dad was a taxi driver and had 7 kids. He didn't have to pay thru the nose.
We were poor, didn't have much luxuries but all of us turned out great. There is no excuse for not having at least 2 kids per couple.

Wah. Did you live in a burrow?
 
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