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Leong Sze Hian wacks HDB hard at Hong Lim Park !!

theblackhole

Alfrescian (InfP)
Generous Asset
wow first time heard this mr leong.very impressive and very down to earth. he is ministerial calibre man! well done mr leong and thank you mr avantas for posting this.
how many experts dare to share their knowledge and expertise with peasants in singapore. he talks with so much knowledge and expertise. so convincing from his heart. how lidat hdb?
 
Z

Zombie

Guest
Excerpts from Mr Leong Sze Hian’s speech:

At the height of the subprime crisis in U.S., according to a local newspaper, the deliquency rate over 90 days was only 5% and here in Singapore, for HDB loans, we have 8%. So is the subprime problem more serious here in Singapore than over in the U.S. ?”

Which figure is correct?

http://www.reuters.com/article/gc06/idUSN1240022720080612?sp=true

Subprime delinquencies may rise into 2009: NAR
Thu Jun 12, 2008 1:29pm EDT Email | Print | Share| Reprints | Single Page | Recommend (0) [-] Text [+]
By Jim Loney

CORAL GABLES, Florida (Reuters) - The delinquency rate on U.S. subprime mortgages may continue to rise into next year, the National Association of Realtors' chief economist said on Thursday.

However, there are signs the subprime crisis may be peaking, Lawrence Yun told a meeting of real estate professionals in Coral Gables, Florida.

"I anticipate the subprime delinquency rate to continue to rise for the rest of the year and probably into the first quarter of next year," Yun said during a presentation on current market conditions.

The delinquency rate on subprime loans is running around 20 percent.
"I would not be surprised if it reached even closer to 25 percent," he said after the speech. "But the pace of increase will be moderating."

How much, he said, will depend largely on housing prices.

The bursting of the U.S. housing market bubble has thrust the U.S. economy to the verge of a recession as lenders sharply curtailed credit, foreclosures soared and consumers, a main engine of economic growth, began to ease back on their spending. The reverberations have been felt around the world.

Yun said that among the positive signs that delinquencies may be nearing a peak was the drop in the number of adjustable rate loans that were resetting and the rise in the number of safer Federal Housing Administration loans.

In addition, many speculators have already defaulted and rates on so-called "jumbo-conforming" loans -- big mortgages that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were authorized by recent legislative changes to finance -- are improving, he said.

With U.S. housing market activity at a 10-year low, pessimistic "psychology" is driving the market, said Yun, who represents the largest U.S. real estate agents group and is known for his optimism despite the worst housing downturn in generations.

"There are many people who probably have the capacity to buy a home but they are not buying, they are sitting on the fence," he said.

Foreclosure rates nationwide, historically around 1 percent, are now running around 2 percent, he said.

According to NAR statistics, the cities with the highest subprime origination rates were Detroit, Miami, Riverside in California, Cape Coral in Florida, Orlando, Las Vegas and Phoenix.

He called Florida's property market turmoil a "short-term slump" resulting in part from "gamblers" speculating on real estate, and from a "short-term oversupply."

The south Florida market has been one of the hardest hit in the nation, due in part to the overbuilding of condominium units, subprime lending and widespread mortgage fraud.

At one point during the peak of the market, Miami, a city of about 400,000 people, had 60,000 condo units in some stage of planning or construction. Thousands of those units are due to come to the market in the next 12 months.

Yun said an NAR analysis found a huge variation in south Florida neighborhoods. Prices in those with few subprime loans were holding up well, while others with large subprime exposure had fallen more than 35 percent.

"Location, location, location is making a bigger difference than ever," he said, forecasting that by 2013 property owners in Miami could see price appreciation of 20 percent or more from today's levels.

Yun spoke at a real estate congress sponsored by the Realtor Association of Greater Miami and the Beaches.

(Editing by Michael Christie; Editing by Tom Hals)
 

cass888

Alfrescian
Loyal
Stop calling people moron when you yourself are one. Ask any law student in the US/UK/Commonwealth whether a leasehold is property and they will tell you yes.

U are such a fucking moron. NOBODY owns their flats in S`pore. Its called a 99 year LEASE. That means u are renting it on a long term basis. By paying the money for the flat, u are basically prepaying your rent for 99 years. After 99 year or less, u have to RETURN the flat to the HDB. Or at anytime, they can demand it back. Does that sound like u own it! If u lease a car, do u own it or do u return it at the end of the lease. Please read your HDB contract. If u live in a freehold condo, u own it. But HDB flats are leasehold. So, the fact is that S`pore has one of the lowest homeownership in the world. I am really dissappointed the MHA is hiring stupid retards like u these days.
 

HakkaThaileen

Alfrescian
Loyal
Thank you for posting the video recording of Leong Sze Hian's speech.

This guy is a good public speaker. He spoke with passion and that is why he could deliver the speech in an off-the-cuff manner. It's not a easy task especially with so many statistics woven into the text

I think none of the ruling politicians / MPs could deliver their speech the same way as Leong did. Typically, what they would do is to arrange for a power point presentation and they just read out the text with another division one officer to assist in operating the computer. Very dull, very monotonous.

Well done!! Mr Leong.. Keep up the good work!
 
Z

Zombie

Guest
Yes, citing the source of data is important...

Where did Leong get the rate 5%?

This is the TOC article he wrote:
http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/10/hdb-and-power-companies-whats-happening/

In comparison, even at the height of the sub-prime crisis in the United States, the estimated delinquency rate is 5.12 per cent for home mortgages (“A simple, painless way to tackle the credit crisis”, ST, Sep 22).

The ST article can be found at:
http://www.mynetbizz.com/travelweb/...ple-painless-way-to-tackle-the-credit-crisis/

Plunkett Research has shown some information from federal agencies that the total outstanding mortgages stood at US$14 trillion updates as of the 2nd quarter of 2007. With the approximate delinquency rate going at 5.12%, that means around US$717 billion value of homes are facing foreclosure.

Note that the figure refers to all mortgage loans, at Q2 2007.

And 5.12% can be found at:
http://www.mortgagebankers.org/NewsandMedia/PressCenter/56555.htm

The delinquency rate for mortgage loans on one-to-four-unit residential properties stood at 5.12 percent of all loans outstanding in the second quarter of 2007 on a seasonally adjusted (SA) basis, up 28 basis points from the first quarter of 2007, and up 73 basis points from one year ago, according to MBA’s National Delinquency Survey.


BUT

Leong has used the figure (5%) in the wrong way, or in the wrong comparison.

1) 5.12% is not "at the height of the sub-prime crisis in the United States".

The figure is also outdated.

While Leong was writing the TOC article above, the latest figure available then was 6.41% for Q2 2008.(http://www.mortgagebankers.org/NewsandMedia/PressCenter/64769.htm)

While Leong was speaking at HL on Dec 6, the latest figure of 6.99% for Q3 2008 had just been released.
(http://www.mortgagebankers.org/NewsandMedia/PressCenter/66626.htm)


2) US's 5.12% is for Q2 2007.

But Singapore's 8% is for October 2008.
(http://forum.channelnewsasia.com/viewtopic.php?p=2389647&sid=079a58eda4392865451cdbe5d678c0c1)

As of October 2008, some 33,000 flat owners owed HDB arrears of three months or more. They make up less than 8 per cent of the 420,000 households with outstanding HDB loans.


3) US's 5.12% is for all loans in United States ie subprime loans and all other types of mortgage loans.
But Singapore's 8% is for HDB concessionary loans only.

Leong had for a while, been comparing Subprime and HDB, which can be seen in his TOC article (http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/10/hdb-and-power-companies-whats-happening/.)

Sub-prime and HDB
Are there parallels, historical similarities, contrasts and comparisons, between the bailout of F & F in the United States, and Singapore - in the context of housing policy ?
F & F were founded with the primary aim of helping more Americans to own homes.
The HDB was set up with a similar objective.
Just as F & F enabled poorer Americans to get home financing, where banks had historically been hesitant to lend, by guaranteeing loans, the HDB actually went even further by building the flats and providing the loans.

But he lacks the consistency, for not using a deliquency rate strictly relating to the subprime loans only.

5.12% is a heavily averaged-down figure that does not represent the "poorer Americans".
 

shelltox

Alfrescian
Loyal
At least HDB has a lease of 99 years but you are lucky you may leave up to 80 years old. So why do you need to have a free hold property? Even your life is lease hold.
 

annexa

Alfrescian
Loyal
U are such a fucking moron. NOBODY owns their flats in S`pore. Its called a 99 year LEASE. That means u are renting it on a long term basis. By paying the money for the flat, u are basically prepaying your rent for 99 years. After 99 year or less, u have to RETURN the flat to the HDB. Or at anytime, they can demand it back. Does that sound like u own it! If u lease a car, do u own it or do u return it at the end of the lease. Please read your HDB contract. If u live in a freehold condo, u own it. But HDB flats are leasehold. So, the fact is that S`pore has one of the lowest homeownership in the world. I am really dissappointed the MHA is hiring stupid retards like u these days.

Hahahahahahaha 99 Year?! Please lar, they usually tell you to screw off and buy new one by year 40!
 

ArtBoon

Alfrescian
Loyal
Did not do any analysis, but I note that LSH is talking about delinquency over 90 days, a sub set of the sub prime loan.

Where did Leong get the rate 5%?

This is the TOC article he wrote:
http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/10/hdb-and-power-companies-whats-happening/



The ST article can be found at:
http://www.mynetbizz.com/travelweb/...ple-painless-way-to-tackle-the-credit-crisis/



Note that the figure refers to all mortgage loans, at Q2 2007.

And 5.12% can be found at:
http://www.mortgagebankers.org/NewsandMedia/PressCenter/56555.htm




BUT

Leong has used the figure (5%) in the wrong way, or in the wrong comparison.

1) 5.12% is not "at the height of the sub-prime crisis in the United States".

The figure is also outdated.

While Leong was writing the TOC article above, the latest figure available then was 6.41% for Q2 2008.(http://www.mortgagebankers.org/NewsandMedia/PressCenter/64769.htm)

While Leong was speaking at HL on Dec 6, the latest figure of 6.99% for Q3 2008 had just been released.
(http://www.mortgagebankers.org/NewsandMedia/PressCenter/66626.htm)


2) US's 5.12% is for Q2 2007.

But Singapore's 8% is for October 2008.
(http://forum.channelnewsasia.com/viewtopic.php?p=2389647&sid=079a58eda4392865451cdbe5d678c0c1)




3) US's 5.12% is for all loans in United States ie subprime loans and all other types of mortgage loans.
But Singapore's 8% is for HDB concessionary loans only.

Leong had for a while, been comparing Subprime and HDB, which can be seen in his TOC article (http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/10/hdb-and-power-companies-whats-happening/.)



But he lacks the consistency, for not using a deliquency rate strictly relating to the subprime loans only.

5.12% is a heavily averaged-down figure that does not represent the "poorer Americans".
 
Z

Zombie

Guest
Did not do any analysis, but I note that LSH is talking about delinquency over 90 days, a sub set of the sub prime loan.

The answer is in my last post.

This is what he wrote just two months ago
http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/10/hdb-and-power-companies-whats-happening/

In comparison, even at the height of the sub-prime crisis in the United States, the estimated delinquency rate is 5.12 per cent for home mortgages (“A simple, painless way to tackle the credit crisis”, ST, Sep 22).

The 5.12% deliquency rate that Leong took from ST, includes all defaulting periods and for all types of mortgage loans in United States.

But Leong used the figure to compare with his HDB Bank loans in arrears > 3 months.

That is clearly a lack of comparability.

He was probably doing it again at HL.
At the height of the subprime crisis in U.S., according to a local newspaper, the deliquency rate over 90 days was only 5% and here in Singapore, for HDB loans, we have 8%.

Maybe, he was just using the 5% as a ballpark figure, but he should inform his readers.
 

ArtBoon

Alfrescian
Loyal
Err... if in US delinquency rate for all loan is 5+% and in Singapore delinquency rate for 90 days loan is ALREADY 8%.. then doesn't that mean the situation in Singapore is much worse...? I suppose not... need to compare apple with apple...

I think Leong is comparing 5+% 90 days delinquency rate in US against 8% in Singapore...

If the ST article 5+% is for all loan/ delinquency period, then how come there is another Reuter report (earlier) that talked about 20%...

So which one is correct?

The answer is in my last post.


The 5.12% deliquency rate that Leong took from ST, includes all defaulting periods and for all types of mortgage loans in United States.

But Leong used the figure to compare with his HDB Bank loans in arrears > 3 months.
 

Ah Guan

Alfrescian
Loyal
Thank you for posting the video recording of Leong Sze Hian's speech.

This guy is a good public speaker. He spoke with passion and that is why he could deliver the speech in an off-the-cuff manner. It's not a easy task especially with so many statistics woven into the text

Exactly... Mr Leong made it a point to illustrate what the statistics mean -- very important for a layperson to understand the workings of finance.

Even without going into politics I'm sure a person of his calibre leads a very comfy life.

Yet he speaks out for our financial welfare.

*ATTEN-TION*

*SA-LUTE*
 

Porfirio Rubirosa

Alfrescian
Loyal
I think you are misconceived on this issue. The HDB 99 year lease is totally different from a mere "rental". The "leasehold" can be sold on the market subject to conditions whereas a "rental" cannot.

U are such a fucking moron. NOBODY owns their flats in S`pore. Its called a 99 year LEASE. That means u are renting it on a long term basis. By paying the money for the flat, u are basically prepaying your rent for 99 years. After 99 year or less, u have to RETURN the flat to the HDB.
 

2lanu

Alfrescian
Loyal
Housing in SG is made to appreciate higher and higher. It is already planned as LKY said on TV. If one cannot afford, the white scum will take care of them by relocating them to Boon Lay and maybe P.Ubin who know?

Can it still go higher? Of course it's for anybody guess and take the risk.
 
Z

Zombie

Guest
So which one is correct?

Maybe, someone should ask Leong to work a little bit harder to find the correct figure, then to rely on ST's 5% figure meant for a totally different purpose.
:biggrin:
 
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