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I hate to say "I told you so" but the fact is that masks do nothing to stop the spread of Covid

why are you selective here ?

the gist was perfect protection not nil protection of wearing mask .

is that what Fauci said ?

There is a name for it, some kind of a bias. You look for the 'correct' findings to prove you are right.

Boss sam's stand on dr fauci proves this.

When fauci says masks don't work, he is right.

When fauci says masks work, he is wrong.

The most plausible explanation is that dr fauci used to think masks don't work, now he believes they do!

It's a fact that masks work. What if a non mask weraring doc sneezes into a patient's open asshole during a rectum examination? Can lead to all kinds of infections!
 
There is a name for it, some kind of a bias. You look for the 'correct' findings to prove you are right.

Boss sam's stand on dr fauci proves this.

When fauci says masks don't work, he is right.

When fauci says masks work, he is wrong.

The most plausible explanation is that dr fauci used to think masks don't work, now he believes they do!

It's a fact that masks work. What if a non mask weraring doc sneezes into a patient's open asshole during a rectum examination? Can lead to all kinds of infections!

A far more plausible explanation is that Dr Fauci thinks that masks don't work based upon his decades of practicing medicine. However he has been forced to publicly state the contrary when Covid becomes a political issue rather than a medical issue.

And there will always be far more harmful bacteria in a patient's asshole than in a sneeze.
 
facebook censored this truth in this post that can be backed by thousands of professionals around the world.
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Rick Jewers
YtSeasptSSereodnsaiyuS iaoft h9n:mmoo55ladr dfAteMd ·
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By wearing a mask when One has Flue symptoms, or virus symptoms, the body becomes a huge and powerful incubator for Flue or virus. The mask allows the virus to mutate rapidly beyond most human bodies capacity to build an immunity. The mask weakens the immune system through the lack of oxygen allowing for the virus to take complete control of the body. One in 5 coming out of a viral infection, are now finding brain damage as a result of the lack of oxygen caused by wearing the mask during infection.

The PCR testing accelerated a viruses ability of entering the body by scraping away the protective mucous and giving the virus a more easy and direct point of entry into the body. The spread of the virus was accelerated on the lower timeline by these two intentional components of which nefarious expert physicians already knew would have the most effect. The above is a common knowledge by physicians and for governments to act as they did, blatantly revealed their true intent. A plea of ignorance has completely no merit, meaning there is nothing to judge, only a sentencing of all that imposed, supported and coerced these dangerous health measures upon

Others. Other entities like Facebook, that suppressed and labeled Our information false, contributed to this huge crime against humanity. By fact checkers judging material when they are not experts in the field, is misleading and dangerous to a public, which is the crime fraud, among other serious infractions causing bodily harm and even death. Even the job of fact checkers is an actual illegal job when discerned from the simple basis of law.

Love and Light
Rick
 
They could have just said "The virus causes only a mild infection in the vast majority of those infected so don't worry about it.".

That's what I have been saying since day one and I believe myself totally. :smile:

Political.

If you worked in Sweden ok.

If you work in canada you can kena complaint fo college.

Political.

Medicine is crap because it is bullshittkng people about being honest and ethical what shit. Just as political.
 
They could have just said "The virus causes only a mild infection in the vast majority of those infected so don't worry about it.".

That's what I have been saying since day one and I believe myself totally. :smile:
It caused Trump his presidency. :unsure:
 
There is a name for it, some kind of a bias. You look for the 'correct' findings to prove you are right.

Boss sam's stand on dr fauci proves this.

When fauci says masks don't work, he is right.

When fauci says masks work, he is wrong.

The most plausible explanation is that dr fauci used to think masks don't work, now he believes they do!

It's a fact that masks work. What if a non mask weraring doc sneezes into a patient's open asshole during a rectum examination? Can lead to all kinds of infections!
Dr Fauci is just one mere man and why should he be taken as the golden standard to begin with ?

in any issue , whether medical or legal or otherwise , there always be contrasting views ....one expert will say A and another will say exactly the opposite ...and both are experts too

even in our courts , I had came across a lower court judge ruling overturned by higher court and on appeal the higher court ruling overturned by Supreme Court and on further appeal the Privy Council finally reinstated the findings of the lower court ...and all the judges are learned lot and in no way we can say any of the judges are ignorant ....believe me , it’s an actual case I went through myself when appeal to Privy Council in London was accepted

if such a varied degree of opinion can exist in judiciary which sometimes even oversee our very parliament, the highest authority of law , what can you and I say of contrasting takes on the question of masks

so , what gives ?

firstly , as the Yankees would say why fix if its ain’t broken ? In sort , masks might just be a placebo but does not wearing makes you any better ?

secondly , which I consider the most important thingy , even if wearing a mask provided you just 30 % protection , why not ? Because than at least you are 30% protected than nothing

this is where Sam , talks cock , arguing for argument sake , as if the whole world of medical professionals and everyone else are idiots and he is the messiah ...this sort of argument had its origin from the onset of USENET where we entered into an argument and we must hold the ground on all account and the guy who can better search and show prove wins the argument

but reality may well be far from it
 
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Hey Sam. What's your take on the new mrna vaccines?

I know this tech would not have been approved so fast if not for covid.

I think the older folks should be first to take it. They have better benefit risk ratios.

Young children especially should be last to be treated.
 
Dr Fauci is just one mere man and why should he be taken as the golden standard to begin with ?

in any issue , whether medical or legal or otherwise , there always be contrasting views ....one expert will say A and another will say exactly the opposite ...and both are experts too

even in our courts , I had came across a lower court judge ruling overturned by higher court and on appeal the higher court ruling overturned by Supreme Court and on further appeal the Privy Council finally reinstated the findings of the lower court ...and all the judges are learned lot and in no way we can say any of the judges are ignorant ....believe me , it’s an actual case I went through myself when appeal to Privy Council in London was accepted

if such a varied degree of opinion can exist in judiciary which sometimes even oversee our very parliament, the highest authority of law , what can you and I say of contrasting takes on the question of masks

so , what gives ?

firstly , as the Yankees would say why fix if its ain’t broken ? In sort , masks might just be a placebo but does not wearing makes you any better ?

secondly , which I consider the most important thingy , even if wearing a mask provided you just 30 % protection , why not ? Because than at least you are 30% protected than nothing

this is where Sam , talks cock , arguing for argument sake , as if the whole world of medical professionals and everyone else are idiots and he is the messiah ...this sort of argument had its origin from the onset of USENET where we entered into an argument and we must hold the ground on all account and the guy who can better search and show prove wins the argument

but reality may well be far from it

I'm giving my views of the whole Covid fiasco based upon my assessment of what is going on. I don't know why you get so worked up just because you happen to have a different opinion.

I expect the majority to disagree with me. I'd be very worried if they didn't.
 
Hey Sam. What's your take on the new mrna vaccines?

I know this tech would not have been approved so fast if not for covid.

I think the older folks should be first to take it. They have better benefit risk ratios.

Young children especially should be last to be treated.

It probably won't work very well for the older folk. I think it would be better to vaccinate those which are most likely to spread the virus ie the young up to the middle aged.
 
theconversation.com

Why vaccines are less effective in the elderly, and what it means for COVID-19
Shayan Sharif

7-9 minutes


As the global spread of severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus (SARS-CoV-2) — the cause of COVID-19 — continues, we learn more about the effects of this new virus.

For many respiratory pathogens, including influenza viruses and respiratory syncytial viruses, the elderly experience the most severe forms of disease and the highest death rates. For example, for every 10,000 Americans between 18 and 49 years old, only 0.4 people die from the annual flu. That number increases to 5.9 people per 10,000 for those aged 65-74 years, and 47.5 people for those over 74 years old. However, most of these diseases can also have a predilection for causing severe disease in the very young.

In this respect, COVID-19 is very different. Data from relatively early in the COVID-19 pandemic showed a dramatic difference in the rates of age-associated deaths, with a case fatality rate of 4.5 per cent for patients ages 60 and older versus only 1.4 per cent for those under 60 years old, with those under 30 years ranging from zero to 0.19 per cent.

Immunosenescence

We are immunologists with research programs devoted to developing vaccines. With COVID-19 placing a spotlight on the elderly as the age demographic most in need of a vaccine, we have felt compelled to evaluate how well scientists are doing at tailoring immunization strategies for this population. Our conclusion is that vaccinologists, ourselves included, have largely failed to focus their research on tailoring vaccine technologies to induce robust immune responses in the elderly.
A critical factor that makes the elderly more susceptible to infectious diseases is what immunologists call “immunosenescence”: the decline in the immune system’s functionality as people age. This is also associated with an increase in the incidence of inflammatory diseases, because an elderly body tends to be in a state of chronic low-grade inflammation. This “inflamm-aging” is one reason why older people have tendencies to develop more severe forms of respiratory diseases.

Health-care worker prepares a syringe for injection.

Older people have a diminished responses to vaccinations because of immunosenescence. (Pexels/Retha Ferguson)

The key problem with SARS-CoV-2 infection is inflammation in the respiratory tract, which can be exacerbated in individuals predisposed towards potent inflammatory responses.

Immunosenescence also results in diminished responses to vaccination. Indeed, annual flu vaccines are notoriously less effective in the elderly. This phenomenon is very important in the context of the massive efforts and funds being invested worldwide into the ultra-rapid development of vaccines for COVID-19.

The fact that elderly people do not respond well to immunizations has largely been ignored in most discussions of COVID-19 vaccines, despite this being the group in greatest need. Most of the scientific community’s experience with vaccine development for any disease has been focused on vaccinating the relatively young.

Young mice and elderly humans

Here is an interesting exercise for people reading this article: find as many original research articles as you can on the topic of vaccine development that have used animal models (it could be for any disease). Then look in the subsection of the “materials and methods” section and check the age of the animals. We were shocked by what we found.

Mice are the most common animals used in preclinical vaccine research and the overwhelming majority of these are 12 weeks old or younger. This is equivalent to people 20 years old and younger. It is comparatively much rarer for studies to use immunosenescent mice that are at least 18 months old and equivalent to an elderly human.

Translational studies that take promising preclinical discoveries and move them towards clinical trials often use non-human primates such as Rhesus macaques. In the majority of cases these are around three to six years old, which is equivalent to an adolescent or young-adult human. The same trend applies to all other animals used in vaccine research.

Early-phase clinical trials focus on safety, not efficacy of vaccines. Therefore, far too many vaccines never get tested in the context of aged immune systems until Phase 2 and 3 clinical trials. The time to find out that a vaccine does not work well in the context of immunosenescence is not at this extremely late stage, when it is too late to fix the problem. This testing should begin in the preclinical phase where an iterative process can be followed to tailor a vaccine for a senescent immune system.

The gloved hand of a lab worker holding a C57BL/6 mouse, a type commonly used in research.

A C57BL/6 mouse. (Shutterstock)

Interestingly, many commercial suppliers of animals that are purpose-bred for research do not have adequate inventories of old animals. Of concern, most old mice that are readily available are of the C57BL/6 strain. This is the most common strain used in research, and is known to have an immune system with a strong bias towards effective responses against viruses.

Intriguingly, aged mice experience a more severe form of SARS after infection, akin to elderly humans. The excessive use of young mice with immune systems that are optimal for antiviral responses, and that experience less severe disease, could bias results in a way that overestimates the potential of vaccines to perform well in the elderly.

Developing vaccines for a key demographic

People age 65 and over suffer the most severe cases of COVID-19 and have the highest associated mortality rate. If the goal is to have COVID-19 vaccines ready for public use by early 2021, the only ones that have a chance are those that are currently in clinical trials. It is likely that most of these did not undergo preclinical optimization for an elderly population, meaning these first-generation COVID-19 vaccines may perform poorly in the people that need them most.

For the COVID-19 pandemic, it is too late to go back and build these considerations into preclinical testing. However, it is imperative that researchers still in the preclinical phase incorporate head-to-head testing of their vaccine candidates in young versus aged animals and develop strategies to optimize them in the latter. This will help the world prepare for the next outbreak of a dangerous coronavirus.

For that matter, a focus on the elderly should be incorporated into other vaccine development programs, including those to treat cancers, which have the highest incidence in older people.

There are viable strategies to improve the effectiveness of vaccines in older people, including changes in formulations, doses and routes of administration. However, it takes substantial time and appropriate animal models to conduct this research. It is possible that the elderly may need fundamentally different vaccination regimens than younger people.

Although a few researchers do conduct vaccine studies in old animals, considerations for the elderly need to be adopted by far more vaccinologists. This is of growing importance for countries with aging populations. This will mean changing the current philosophy of the field of vaccine development and incorporating age as a critical variable.
 
I'm giving my views of the whole Covid fiasco based upon my assessment of what is going on. I don't know why you get so worked up just because you happen to have a different opinion.

I expect the majority to disagree with me. I'd be very worried if they didn't.
Offence is the best form of defence eh ?

you are taking a stand on mask , I don’t ?

guess , who is getting worked up, pal ?

and it’s not only this thread by you , but many many were too

there must be something that got you all worked up
 
Offence is the best form of defence eh ?

you are taking a stand on mask , I don’t ?

guess , who is getting worked up, pal ?

and it’s not only this thread by you , but many many were too

there must be something that got you all worked up

I'd be worked up if my threads did not work others up and nobody bothered to respond.
 
I think you should go fuck yourself and stop spreading shit like your idol Donald.
 
I think you should go fuck yourself and stop spreading shit like your idol Donald.

That's what the establishment said to Galileo when he had the gall to suggest that the earth revolved around the sun.
 
fee.org

How Finland and Norway Proved Sweden’s Approach to COVID-19 Works | Jon Miltimore
Jon Miltimore

6-8 minutes


The coronavirus is back in force. Many nations around the world are seeing alarming rises in cases and deaths, totals that in many instances exceed the highs reached in March, April, and May.
From the beginning of the pandemic, governments around the world have tried to tame the virus. All have failed, to varying degrees.
Whether governments implement draconian lockdowns, modest lockdowns, or no lockdowns at all, the virus has spread. Some countries with harsh lockdowns have fared better; many have fared worse. As some have pointed out, the virus doesn’t seem to care what policies you put in place.
Belgium, for example, has the second highest COVID-19 death rate in the world even though it implemented one of the strictest lockdowns in the world (81.5 stringency). Italy and Spain had even harsher lockdowns, and both countries are also among the most devastated by the virus. (Italy’s current death rate is lower than that of Belgium and Spain, but the country is facing a resurgence of the virus that looks positively frightening.)
We can measure lockdown stringency because of a feature created by Our World in Data, a research team based at the University of Oxford that produces information in all sorts of wonderful charts and graphs.
While most of the world went into lockdown in March, Swedish officials chose to forgo a full lockdown, opting instead for a “lighter touch” approach that relied on cooperation with citizens, who were given public health information and encouraged to behave responsibly.
Our World in Data shows Sweden’s government response stringency never reached 50, peaking at about 46 from late April to early June. (As a point of reference, the US averaged a stringency of about 70 from March to September.) This is well below the top stringency of Spain (85) and Italy (94).
Yet, Sweden’s per capita death rate is lower than Spain, Belgium, Italy and other nations despite the fact that it did not initiate a lockdown. As a result, Sweden’s economy was spared much of the damage these nations suffered (though not all).
Despite the apparent success of Sweden’s strategy, the Swedes have found themselves attacked. The New York Times has described Sweden’s policy as a “cautionary tale,” while other media outlets have used it as an illustration of how not to handle the coronavirus.
Critics of Sweden’s policy point out that although Sweden has experienced fewer deaths than many European nations, it has suffered more than its Nordic neighbors, Finland and Norway.
This is true, but it needs to be contextualized.
Norway and Finland have some of the lowest COVID-19 death rates in the world, with 54 deaths per one million citizens and 66 per million respectively. This is well below the median in Europe (240 per million) and Sweden’s rate (605 per million).
What these critics fail to realize is that both Finland and Norway have had less restrictive policies than Sweden for the bulk of the pandemic—not more lockdowns.
Norway’s lockdown stringency has been less than 40 since early June, and fell all the way to 28.7 in September and October. Finland’s lockdown stringency followed a similar pattern, floating around the mid to low 30s for most of the second half of the year, before creeping back up to 41 around Halloween.
When people compare Sweden unfavorably to Finland and Norway to dismiss its laissez-faire policy, they are drawing the opposite conclusion from what the data point really reveals. Yes, Finland and Norway have lower deaths than Sweden—but they have actually been more laissez-faire than their neighbor for the majority of the pandemic.
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Join us in preserving the principles of economic freedom and individual liberty for the rising generation
Since June, Finland and Norway have had less restrictive government policies than Sweden, and both nations have endured the coronavirus remarkably well. They have been among the freest nations in the world since early June, and COVID-19 deaths have been miniscule.
Neither country even has a mask mandate, though both implemented mask recommendations in August. In Norway, private gatherings in public places are still permitted, though the capacity was recently reduced to 50 people (down from 200).
In Finland, people say daily life hasn’t changed very much.
“My daily life actually hasn’t been affected too much,” healthcare assistant Gegi Aydin told one local news station.
The lighter touch approach can be seen in their economies, as well. In the second quarter of 2020, Norway and Finland saw their economies contract by 6.3 percent and 6.4 percent respectively. That’s about half the 11.8 percent drop of the European Union, and well below that experienced by Spain (-18.5%) and the United Kingdom (-19.1%). It’s even lower than that of Sweden, which saw a decline of 8.6 percent.
Despite their low lockdown stringency, Norway and Finland are among the only places in Europe you’ll find considered safe for travel.
As I’ve pointed out before, people aren’t attacking the results of Sweden’s policies. They are attacking the nature of its policies. Of course, there are many nations that have been hit much harder than Sweden. But these nations are ignored because they don’t threaten the narrative that government lockdowns work, and that millions more would have died without them.
Norway and Finland show that the coronavirus doesn’t care about government policy. Their numbers have remained low with moderately strict lockdowns and with laissez-faire policies.
With the coronavirus resurging around the world, there is talk of implementing another round of crippling lockdowns. World leaders are facing immense pressure to “do something.”
This would be a mistake. Lockdowns come with severe and deadly unintended consequences. Moreover, they have proven utterly ineffective at taming the virus—which is why the World Health Organization is now advising against their use.
The reality is, humans are unwilling to accept how powerless they are to stop this virus. They are unwilling to admit they cannot control it.
Decades ago, in his Nobel Prize acceptance speech, the economist F.A. Hayek warned of the dangers of such hubris. If man continued to live in ignorance of the limits of his knowledge, it would breed a “fatal striving to control society – a striving which makes him not only a tyrant over his fellows, but which may well make him the destroyer of a civilization…”
It’s a lesson that has never been more important. We’ll soon know if it's one we’re finally prepared to learn.
 
It probably won't work very well for the older folk. I think it would be better to vaccinate those which are most likely to spread the virus ie the young up to the middle aged.
I think there is going to be a problem with take up of the vaccine.

Nobody wants to be the first ones to get it.

Ask around my doctor friends classmates and colleagues all say if you can try to wait for a while.

So......

Who's going to be first?
 
I think there is going to be a problem with take up of the vaccine.

Nobody wants to be the first ones to get it.

Ask around my doctor friends classmates and colleagues all say if you can try to wait for a while.

So......

Who's going to be first?

The virus causes only minor symptoms in most. It is not worth being a Guinea Pig for big pharma. It would be different if Covid was lethal like SARS1 and Ebola where the risk of dying for outweighed the risk of adverse effects from a vaccine.
 
The virus causes only minor symptoms in most. It is not worth being a Guinea Pig for big pharma. It would be different if Covid was lethal like SARS1 and Ebola where the risk of dying for outweighed the risk of adverse effects from a vaccine.
I agree.

Also if you dont go out and interact with people close up the chances of contracting it is low.
 
More data from Europe that shows mask mandates having no effect whatsoever on the number of cases per million population. If anything they seem to make things worse.

1605850116272.png
 
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