I hate to say "I told you so" but the fact is that masks do nothing to stop the spread of Covid

[Leongsam]

that's why I put the very question in the beginning

are surgeons fucking stupid all over the world wearing a mask during an operation

if you are proven right over your claim that mask means nothing statistically than all surgeons around the world need to answer too

The public has a perception that masks protect the patient. Doctors have to pander to public perceptions or risk having their careers shortened.

 

[Nice-Gook]

Agreeing with him is hardly "hiding behind him". I certainly endorse his statement that masks can make things worse.

why are you selective here ?

the gist was perfect protection not nil protection of wearing mask .

is that what Fauci said ?

 

[tanwahtiu]

It works in China.

In the West they are always trying to cause animosity and use anti trust law to dispute the products.

In Christainity they have over 3000 denomination of groups disputing over the Bible.

Wearing masks helps peopel feel like they are doing something to help. Otherwise all helpless very scary.

Humans like to feel they are in control.

A false sense of security is better than no sense of security.

This is why the placebo effect is real.

 

[Nice-Gook]

The public has a perception that masks protect the patient. Doctors have to pander to public perceptions or risk having their careers shortened.

i am not talking about doctors ,I am talking about surgeons doing surgeries as operations

why are they wearing masks ?and why do these surgeons need to fool the public since surgeries is not a spectator sports?

 

[Leongsam]

i am not talking about doctors ,I am talking about surgeons doing surgeries as operations

why are they wearing masks ?and why do these surgeons need to fool the public since surgeries is not a spectator sports?

The answer to that is contained in the article about mask use in surgery.

 

[Leongsam]

why are you selective here ?

the gist was perfect protection not nil protection of wearing mask .

is that what Fauci said ?

Nothing is perfect in this world. The way I read his statements is that the downsides outweighed the protection provided.

 

[tobelightlight]

Shall we all put down our masks and rebel against those social distancing officers? Is that what you think we should do?

The law climate in Sg doesn't really allow people to put down their mask, due to fear of fine and punishment, if that don't work, they use reasoning of why you need to put on mask for the protection of others and all these craps, unless everyone do it at the same time.

 

[sweetiepie]

After all the noise on both sides of the mask argument re covid-19...generally I think masks don't protect the wearer from getting the virus but it does protect healthy people from getting infected from someone with the virus who wears a mask...so everyone wearing masks does indeed help, save for those who have proven immunity...no doubt wearing a mask is inconvenient but a small price to pay to help the community at large...

KNN my uncle also think this is the correct conclusion KNN but the problem is people will start to think since everyone is wearing then I am safe not wearing KNN

 

[Leongsam]

Shall we all put down our masks and rebel against those social distancing officers? Is that what you think we should do?

The law climate in Sg doesn't really allow people to put down their mask, due to fear of fine and punishment, if that don't work, they use reasoning of why you need to put on mask for the protection of others and all these craps, unless everyone do it at the same time.

The answer to that is that you just have to comply. There are a ton of laws that I feel are illogical but that does not alter the fact that if they are broken you'll end up in trouble.

In Auckland there are wide streets running through sparsely populated areas where the speed limit is 50kph. At the same time there are streets which are congested and running through residential areas where the speed limit is 60kph. However the speed cameras don't care they generate evidence and summonses which have to be paid.

 

[mojito]

Said many times mask is protect other from YOU. I rest my case.

 

[Leongsam]

Said many times mask is protect other from YOU. I rest my case.

This is a fallacy because there is no actual evidence that supports this. It is just a theory based upon the initial assumption that droplet infection was the main driver of Covid-19 transmission.

However the evidence is piling up that aerosol transmission is the major factor in the spread of coronavirus. Cloth masks and loosely fit surgical masks offer zero protection against this mode.

This explains why countries which implemented a mask mandate at the start of the pandemic fared no better than countries were masks were not required.

https://english.elpais.com/society/...he-coronavirus-is-spread-through-the-air.html

 

[nightsafari]

This is a fallacy because there is no actual evidence that supports this. It is just a theory based upon the initial assumption that droplet infection was the main driver of Covid-19 transmission.

However the evidence is piling up that aerosol transmission is the major factor in the spread of coronavirus. Cloth masks and loosely fit surgical masks offer zero protection against this mode.

This explains why countries which implemented a mask mandate at the start of the pandemic fared no better than countries where masks were not required.

https://english.elpais.com/society/...he-coronavirus-is-spread-through-the-air.html

that is an excellent article.

I particularly found it interesting that the article states there is no transmission via fomites.

However, I'm a bit dubious that aerosol transmission is the primary vector as per the article. Reason being that in some countries where bars and restaurants where distancing and other measures are practiced, publicly state that those facilities are not responsible for the rise in cases / 2nd wave occurring. Rather, they were in-house events or big groups (eg wedding). If the enclosed space+aerosols was sufficient, you would expect all those sealed up restaurants in colder climates to cause quite a number of transmission events. It's publicly stated that they have not.

 

[nayr69sg]

Wait for the vaccine and all the problems that might come with it.

Those anti vaxxers and conspiracy theories.

And the actual problems with a rushed to market vaccine.

Medicine world has gone to shit honestly.

 

[tobelightlight]

Delete

 

[tobelightlight]

This is a fallacy because there is no actual evidence that supports this. It is just a theory based upon the initial assumption that droplet infection was the main driver of Covid-19 transmission.

However the evidence is piling up that aerosol transmission is the major factor in the spread of coronavirus. Cloth masks and loosely fit surgical masks offer zero protection against this mode.

This explains why countries which implemented a mask mandate at the start of the pandemic fared no better than countries were masks were not required.

https://english.elpais.com/society/...he-coronavirus-is-spread-through-the-air.html

What's the difference between droplet transmission and aerosol transmission?

 

[Leongsam]

What's the difference between droplet transmission and aerosol transmission?

It's defined in the article.

 

[mojito]

This is a fallacy because there is no actual evidence that supports this. It is just a theory based upon the initial assumption that droplet infection was the main driver of Covid-19 transmission.

However the evidence is piling up that aerosol transmission is the major factor in the spread of coronavirus. Cloth masks and loosely fit surgical masks offer zero protection against this mode.

This explains why countries which implemented a mask mandate at the start of the pandemic fared no better than countries were masks were not required.

https://english.elpais.com/society/...he-coronavirus-is-spread-through-the-air.html

Eh? Drop let? Airy soil? It suggest problem is lousy mask no? Then solution is better quality mask like hospital use yes? That is one hypothesis from study. Wear mask can prevent spread also not conclusively debunked.

 

[Leongsam]

Eh? Drop let? Airy soil? It suggest problem is lousy mask no? Then solution is better quality mask like hospital use yes? That is one hypothesis from study. Wear mask can prevent spread also not conclusively debunked.

The best way to see if something works or doesn't is to examine the outcomes.

townhall.com

Death Rate In Peru Proves That Lockdowns Won't Stop COVID-19
Alex Corey

4-5 minutes


As of Thursday, Peru reported over 498,000 COVID-19 infections and over 21,000 deaths. More than 27,000 additional deaths are under investigation to see if they are related to the virus.

The South American country implemented one of the first lockdowns starting on March 16, and it became one of the longest worldwide, lasting a total of four months.

While the lockdown ended on July 1, the number of COVID-19 related deaths for the country had already risen to over 12,000 and. The highest daily average for cases for the country was on May 31 at 8,805 infections; the lockdown was still in full force at this point.

Investigative journalist Jordan Schachtel questioned why the country's failed lockdown has not been covered by the media.

Throughout the stringent four-month lockdown, Peruvians were forbidden to leave their homes unless they needed essential goods; nighttime curfews were enforced, borders were closed, businesses shut down, and a mask order was implemented.

A national mask mandate went into effect on April 7; the government even sent out masks to all people not willing to buy their own. Presumed Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden and his VP pick Sen. Kamala Harris suggested a federal mask mandate just this afternoon.

But even with all the stringent measures, many of which have been suggested by Democrat lawmakers in the United States, Peru has one of the highest fatality rates of COVID-19 in the world at 4.4 percent, even though it was under strict lockdown. Therefore, other factors must be contributing to the nation's status as one of the hardest hit by the pandemic.

One factor, some have said, could be Peru's income vulnerability. The country relies heavily on industries like tourism, commerce, and transport, all of which contribute to an informal economy. Since many jobs within these fields have been shut down or severely reduced since March, a majority of the country has struggled with income. On average, more Peruvians are worried about lost income than contracting the virus.

Peru also has a low-quality health system, making it significantly harder to treat those who become infected with the novel coronavirus. The nation lacks key medical resources like hospital beds, intensive care units, and health care professionals.

Many in the country also live in poor conditions. Most do not own refrigerators, therefore, with curfews in place and businesses operating at limited hours, crowding is common at markets, turning them into possible hotspot locations.

Peruvians are also incredibly skeptical of their government's decision making. On August 6, President Martin Vizcarra swore in Walter Martos as the new prime minister, the fifth in his two-year leadership. While Vizcarra had a record approval rating of 87 percent in March, by June this figure fell by 17 points, as instability from the pandemic grew.


A distressing point of mystery in Peru lies in the disappearance of 1,200 women and girls since the start of the pandemic. Many fear these females to be dead.

Jacqui Hunt of Equality Now, a non-governmental organization that promotes the rights of women and girls, told The Independent the number of women and girls going missing in Peru is both “staggering and horrific”.

"Peru has one of the highest rates of violence against women in Latin America, and the coronavirus pandemic has worsened what was already a dire situation," she said. "Covid-19 response measures introduced by the Peruvian government must address the particular vulnerabilities of women and girls."

Since the start of the pandemic, domestic violence in Latin America has soared due to government lockdowns.

As of today, the current daily COVID-19 infection rate in the country stands between 6,000-8,000 cases on average. Its population is just over 33 million people.

Vizcarra plans to reimplement some strict lockdown policies starting Sunday, hoping it will curb back cases and slow the mortality rate.

 

[nayr69sg]

So...

The "correct" thing to say and do was

" Nothing we can do will stop this virus from spreading. So we will change nothing and do nothing different and carry on as everything is normal. If you catch the virus then hopefully you recover or else you might die. "

Really? People will accept?

It is like you to to doctor and they say sorry nothing absolutley nothing we can do. Too bad so sad.

Who would ever do such a thing? Bad for business. Bad for reputation. Bad for image. Bad for news.

It is all political.

 

[Leongsam]

So...

The "correct" thing to say and do was

" Nothing we can do will stop this virus from spreading. So we will change nothing and do nothing different and carry on as everything is normal. If you catch the virus then hopefully you recover or else you might die. "

Really? People will accept?

It is like you to to doctor and they say sorry nothing absolutley nothing we can do. Too bad so sad.

Who would ever do such a thing? Bad for business. Bad for reputation. Bad for image. Bad for news.

It is all political.

They could have just said "The virus causes only a mild infection in the vast majority of those infected so don't worry about it.".

That's what I have been saying since day one and I believe myself totally.