How Will The PAP Respond?

[TracyTan866]

And this is why there is definitely a political dimension to it. The PAP is now quietly embarrassed by these 2 cases coming so soon after a series of mis-steps eg MRT, DNA testing, under-reporting of drug cases, Orchard Rd ponding. And they must be cursing under the breath why all these are happening so soon one after another while at the same time knowing that their credibility has taken another severe knock. Some peoplle had even commented to me that they are suffering from PAP's failure fatigue.

Singaporeans are tired of the pap...we need a change

 

[TracyTan866]

Why do you and so many others here split hairs over the most trivial of issues. Don't you have real problems to worry about?

We nip problems in the bud...that's the difference between a true blue Singaporean and an ex Singaporean.

To many of us, these two cases are not trivial that can be swept under the carpet. On the contrary, we see them as severe betrayal of trust at a very high level.

 

[ashjaw]

Mr Sam, we all know you are trying to make this forum more balanced by encouraging more PAP fans to speak out but you are kind of like overdoing it and somehow it seems that you are trying too hard and it comes across as quite fake. But hey, *clap clap* for your hard work .

Opposition parties make martyrs of themselves. They tell the police where they will be and say... "Please come and arrest me".

Many view the Mas Selamat case as government incompetence. However, I see it as a case of "blood is thicker than water" and this is one of the real problems that Singapore will have to deal with in the years to come. It's something that all non Muslim Singaporeans should be worried about. Instead, they constantly aim their gun sights on issues that are not important.

 

[kukubird58]

To many of us, these two cases are not trivial that can be swept under the carpet. On the contrary, we see them as severe betrayal of trust at a very high level.

hahaha......yes, papee agrees with u so they were reported in the msm and not swept under the carpet....
but we are real jokers.....don't know head and don't tail and start yak, yak.....away....it is fashionable to start a thread on this.....
as regards to betrayal.....i guess we are no saint; including me.....i see both married men and women having affairs, visiting the whore houses and places of entertainment like nobody business.....the marriage vow is like the singapore pledge...all hot air....it is about time we look ourself in the mirror and stop being hypocrates.

 

[rusty]

Singaporeans should give the PAP their full support because 99% of other countries are a lot worse.

If there are any PAP members or supporters reading this forum, I would like to take the time to point out that the anti PAP view here is held by a very small minority of mentally challenged citizens who congregate here simply because I allow them to have their say. They are in no way representative of the majority view.

I would also like to point out that I know many intelligent and hardworking Australians and New Zealanders who support the way the PAP runs the country and I can assure you that they would love to move to Singapore to work and bring up their families in a safe and secure environment that Singapore provides. If you want names and references, I would be only too happy to provide them. All those I recommend would be a credit to the country. PM or email me.

Wow! this is a master piece for ailibi in case ISD invites you for tea but seriously I don't believe you are what is portrayed here.

 

[Fook Seng]

YOG had a few minor hiccups and went over budget.... hardly a hanging offense. It happens in all countries. The cost of hosting the rugby world cup in NZ went way beyond budget too. The opening ceremony was a fiasco.

The YOG just went over budget? OMG.

The Asian Youth Games was meant to be a rehearsal for the real thing. In that they could not even get the Ministry of Education to bring the school kids to the Games, a simple coordination matter between two ministries. I remember the look of the PM's face when he saw the crowd, or rather the lack of it, at the Opening Ceremony.

You would think that with this fiasco, the YOG would have been perfect. I remember staring at the stadium stands. It was one Olympics Games where you did not see any banner from sponsors for the Games. There was also no telecast, live or delayed, in any of the major sports channels. It was as if someone had forgotten to put it down as a planning item.

You spent so much to bring in an event like this and what did you get? A domestic event, something like 2 times over budget. The least mentioned about this event the better.

 

[Fook Seng]

The remarks about not encouraging dependency on welfare handouts has nothing to do with the PAP. It's because I've seen the harm it can do in the UK, in OZ and in NZ.

Before I lived and worked in these countries, I held the same view that you do.. that the government should be responsible for making sure that the lower echelons of society were taken of.

Who is talking about following UK, OZ and NZ to the letter? What "same view" are you referring to? In OZ, 85% of new immigrants are in assistance and only one third have jobs. They are stupid to do this for FWs.

Here the people are saying, don't do so much for the FT/FW, giving them free rides on the Singapore Flyer and NDP tickets which our own citizens 
have to queue up overnight for. Also those scholarships and places in the local universities given to foreigners, depriving local citizens of the chance of a local tertiary education. Instead they are forced to go to lousy places like OZ and NZ to get their lousy education and migrate there.

What people are saying is: use the money instead to support our old and sick folks with a couple of hundred dollars more per month so that they would have a proper and balanced three meals a day. How many of such people are there?

Why don't we depend on volunteers? From what I know, the ones who contribute the most with their hearts and souls to this needed group are themselves in the lower strata of society, people who can empathize with their situation. Where are the elites? Sad to say, they cannot even give a proper handshake.

 

[freedalas]

Who is talking about following UK, OZ and NZ to the letter? What "same view" are you referring to? In OZ, 85% of new immigrants are in assistance and only one third have jobs. They are stupid to do this for FWs.

Here the people are saying, don't do so much for the FT/FW, giving them free rides on the Singapore Flyer and NDP tickets which our own citizens 
have to queue up overnight for. Also those scholarships and places in the local universities given to foreigners, depriving local citizens of the chance of a local tertiary education. Instead they are forced to go to lousy places like OZ and NZ to get their lousy education and migrate there.

What people are saying is: use the money instead to support our old and sick folks with a couple of hundred dollars more per month so that they would have a proper and balanced three meals a day. How many of such people are there?

Why don't we depend on volunteers? From what I know, the ones who contribute the most with their hearts and souls to this needed group are themselves in the lower strata of society, people who can empathize with their situation. Where are the elites? Sad to say, they cannot even give a proper handshake.

Dear Fook Seng

I'm very heartened and encouraged by what u had posted. My fellow volunteers and I earnestly hope that there are many more like u who
truly understand the circumstances of those in the lowest strata of our society and that they are totally helpless on their own. It's very easy for those who had not seen or be with these people to brand as lazy and useless else they can stand on their own feet. It's only after spending some time with them that one will realise that many of them are entrapped in circumstances beyond their control of which they can do little to change. One huge obstacle is the many many conditions that govt imposes before they can even get any form of aid. Even if we want these people to become independent, they must first be helped and only after some time of such assistance can they find their way. But the govt has look the other way all these time with the convenient excuse that once u start helping them, S'pore will turn into a welfare state. Thanks again for your posting that I hope many forummers will read and understand.

 

[Leongsam]

The YOG just went over budget? OMG.

The lack of crowds isn't the fault of the minister. It's because Singaporeans have their priorities wrong. Before Singaporeans start calling their ministers incompetent. They should take a look at themselves.

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

I dont think the pap will agree that it is not a political issue.

Such high profile crimes have huge political implications.

Already TCH sees it fit to comment. I am sure it will result in some PAP soul searching. And such searching is good for Singapore and the pap

Hardly the first time estab figures have been caught corrupt. Will be dealt with by the law, the PAP will be all aglow about vigilance and the need for an honest civil service, the MSM will play its part by painting the govt as proactive and responsive in dealing with such cases, and then all returns to normal.

Why should it be any different this time?

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

The lack of crowds isn't the fault of the minister. It's because Singaporeans have their priorities wrong. Before Singaporeans start calling their ministers incompetent. They should take a look at themselves.

You still have the priorities wrong. It is the job of the electorate to put the feet of those in power to the fire. If not we might as well sack all politicians and go back to village feudalism.

 

[Leongsam]

It's only after spending some time with them that one will realise that many of them are entrapped in circumstances beyond their control of which they can do little to change.

That's rubbish. They may be entrapped but it's in circumstances that they created themselves usually as a result of greed or stupidity or both.

To the rest of you following this thread please do not allow these sorts of sorry tales spun by these so called "do gooders" to influence rational thinking. I too have helped the disadvantaged in society. I too used to think that they were innocent victims of circumstance. However, after a couple of years of doing social work and debt counseling, I realised that the predicaments they were in were entirely of their own doing.

Besides Singapore does not abandon these people. All they do is make it difficult to get help and that's the way it should be. If it was easy to get help, nobody would bother to work hard.

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

Already TCH sees it fit to comment. I am sure it will result in some PAP soul searching. And such searching is good for Singapore and the pap

The minister commenting is normal protocol when high profile corruption cases emerge. It is the job of the minister to assuage public opinion (my highfalutin way of saying "wayang"), manage staff morale, and clear up the mess left behind by the 2 sorry arses. It does not mean PAP is ready to do soul searching. If that were so, the soul searching would have begun in the 1970's.

 

[Ramseth]

The lack of crowds isn't the fault of the minister. It's because Singaporeans have their priorities wrong. Before Singaporeans start calling their ministers incompetent. They should take a look at themselves.

The lack of crowd in YOG is exactly the fault of the minister. Give the people want they want and need, not something they neither want nor need. Worse, use their money to pay for something they neither want nor need severalfolds over budget. I can agree that PAP had did quite a lot of good on the balance to keep this country viable. But this example you cite, bad mistake like egg on your face. What's wrong with citizenry priorites? Go for sports before food on table and roof over head?

 

[Leongsam]

The lack of crowd in YOG is exactly the fault of the minister. Give the people want they want and need, not something they neither want nor need. Worse, use their money to pay for something they neither want nor need severalfolds over budget. I can agree that PAP had did quite a lot of good on the balance to keep this country viable. But this example you cite, bad mistake like egg on your face. What's wrong with citizenry priorites? Go for sports before food on table and roof over head?

YOG was an attempt to put Singapore on the sporting map. It shouldn't be viewed a single "failed" event. It should be taken as part of a long term strategy to promote the country internationally. There were hiccups but it was a first for Singapore and the govt should be commended for taking on the challenge and learning a few invaluable lessons along the way. It will put Singapore in good stead for the future.

Young athletes from all over the world came to Singapore. Many arrived knowing nothing about Singapore. If they left with a good impression, a seed has been planted that will benefit Singapore sometime in the future.

The PAP does not go for instant gratification. It plans for the long term. I commend Dr Vivien B for a job well done.

 

[Charlie99]

hahahaha..you know Tan Teck Khim? Goh Yong Hong? Tee Tua Bua? Koh Boon Hui?

Khoo Boon Hui, from ACS, SAFOS scholar, and after an AWOL incident in the SAF, Chua Chin Kiat (or Keat) and KBH were seconded to the SPF.

 

[scroobal]

Watched this thread for sometime. The best post and most accurate that I feel is the one below by Seee3. Also agree with the labelling of the characters. The only disagreement is the last category where it may not be blatant corruption but perks and reward systems that I would classify as immorally excessive that comes with the position and not reflected or revealed publicly. Not all of them dip into this. A minority actually refrain from it . So 1% is a bit low.

Some other comments ;

1. The recent incident involving the 2 is politically insignificant. The actions so far revealed does not indicate any structural issues or a breach of core operating principles. They reflect character flaws that is closer to inappropriate or immoral behaviour. In the corporate world, they would probably be told to zip up their pants. There is also no national security implications.

2. My guess is that the SCDF contract would still have gone thru. You cannot just walk away from a GLC contract or relationship without the big boys getting involved. At this stage it appears to be a case of overzealous relationship management by the lady that has resulted in civil servants seeking gifts, trips and entertainment.

3. There has been some change in handling such matters as such cases never see day light but handled internally. Eric Tan, CPIB head, Tan Tee How, Perm Sec MHA and Teo Chee Hean are all new to the post. There is a heavier burden on Teo Chee Hean as head of civil service and concurrently Minister in MHA to show greater resolve and justify the renumeration model after the recent salary review debacle.

4. There is also some dynamics involved which I did not realise earlier but might have helped steer the recent events into the public domain. Both Eric Tan, CPIB and Tan Tee How PS pretty much rose thru the ranks and did not have privileges of the scholat gravy train. They are highly competent though the former tends to be cocky but confident and the moral compass is true. They know each other very well before they even joined the civil service. I guess they decided to raise the bar together the new MHA minister who frankly comes from wealthy background and does not need a penny from his salary. Teo Chee Hean is also rare among the ministers as his sons have taken OMS while children of other ministers despite being eligibile have no desire to serve in public service.

5. If this is the new trend, it can only be good. It will flush out undesirable conduct which in the past was not blatant corruption and therefore difficult to slot within the criminal paradigm.

6. Hopefully it will lead to more transparency but I suspect not to the extent that is generally acceptable or required of a public service. I would certainly not hold my breath.

Don't think they will opening talk about the root causes. However, just for chit chat, I feel no. 2 is the main culprit and would like to change "Attracting" to "Selecting.."There is no question on the intelligence of those selected. "Character" is the main concern. imo I would roughly breakdown their catch into the following categories by characters :1. Sincerely serving (1%) e.g. HCH2. Serving intelligently and cleanly (5%) e.g. PO, HSK3. Mercenary + porlumpar + Kiasi (60%)4. Mercenary + porlumpar + +kiasi + yeow kiu (33%)4. Really Corrupt (1%)So personal corruption is not the real problem. It is the 90% that sway with the wind, doing things that they know is not right but because (1) it's the boss's idea, (2) do not wish to rock the boat (3) the problem will be passed to others... that is corrupting the system.

 

[scroobal]

Nothing to do with putting Singapore on the sporting map.

Ng Ser Miang sits on the executive board of IOC and is one of the VP. A powerful position. When you take such a position, you are required to do a sort of national service and he was handed this to be done. It was experimental and the first of its kind.

The Singapore Govt and EDB had identified large non profit organisations as a segment to attract and set up their regional or international headquarters here. These includes NGOS, Charities and Sporting Bodies. There is a bigger goal here and not just the YOG which is basically a non event. As you know, this govt has never been bothered about sports. Sports has never been on their agenda. Many such organisations are based in Switzerland. You will never get IOC to move but you certainly can tempt all other international sports bodies such as IAAA etc. Its a billion dollar business with broadcasting dollars going thru the roof.

This will tell you how important this is. Ng Ser Miang was considered as Full Time ambassdor for a key country and I think it was China. The cabinet felt that his IOC position should not be jeopardised as the synergies are tremendous. By the way members of Exec Committee have extensive commitments.

The irony that is not lost on any Singaporean is why the hell IOC gave a VP post to a country that cannot be bothered about sports, never achieved anything in the International arena etc. Welcome to the wider world of sports corruption. There is nothing like a little grease on the palm to get Sports administrators to do what you want.

YOG was an attempt to put Singapore on the sporting map. It shouldn't be viewed a single "failed" event. It should be taken as part of a long term strategy to promote the country internationally. There were hiccups but it was a first for Singapore and the govt should be commended for taking on the challenge and learning a few invaluable lessons along the way. It will put Singapore in good stead for the future.The PAP does not go for instant gratification. It plans for the long term. I commend Dr Vivien B for a job well done.

 

[scroobal]

Excellent and soup for the soul.

Who is talking about following UK, OZ and NZ to the letter? What "same view" are you referring to? In OZ, 85% of new immigrants are in assistance and only one third have jobs. They are stupid to do this for FWs. Here the people are saying, don't do so much for the FT/FW, giving them free rides on the Singapore Flyer and NDP tickets which our own citizens 
have to queue up overnight for. Also those scholarships and places in the local universities given to foreigners, depriving local citizens of the chance of a local tertiary education. Instead they are forced to go to lousy places like OZ and NZ to get their lousy education and migrate there. What people are saying is: use the money instead to support our old and sick folks with a couple of hundred dollars more per month so that they would have a proper and balanced three meals a day. How many of such people are there? Why don't we depend on volunteers? From what I know, the ones who contribute the most with their hearts and souls to this needed group are themselves in the lower strata of society, people who can empathize with their situation. Where are the elites? Sad to say, they cannot even give a proper handshake.

 

[Leongsam]

Nothing to do with putting Singapore on the sporting map.

Ng Ser Miang sits on the executive board of IOC and is one of the VP. A powerful position. When you take such a position, you are required to do a sort of national service and he was handed this to be done. It was experimental and the first of its kind.

You are far too cynical. You have this impression that the Singapore government has ulterior motives in everything that it is involved in. I, on the other hand, know that whatever the PAP does, it is for the long term good of Singapore and its people.

That's the reason for Ng Ser Miang having anything to do with the IOC in the first place. Contacts are important and networks are built upon these sorts of foundations. Ultimately, Singapore as a country benefits.

The country may not be a centre of sporting excellence at the moment but who is to say that things won't be different in 20 years time. The seeds have to be sown now.

Vivian was put in the hot seat and he rose to the occasion. Singaporeans should be proud of him.