HDB 101 : What the PAP don't want you to know.

[Papsmearer]

so dat, in turn, ze gahmen has sufficient moni 2 finance obscenely hi salaries 2 ze world's bestest paid politicians ...

No lah, the PAP pays themselves this high salary because they rewarding themselves for coming up with this scheme to fleece the populace.

 

[Papsmearer]

Ng Teng Fong was not the King of real estate. Mah Bow Tan is, and for a paltry 1.5 million dollars a year. Yup, the ability to manipulate demand and effectively raising the price and inevitably generating high profits is the true mark of a real estate tycoon. Why isn't Mah Bow Tan in the private sector making billlions instead of staying on with the PAP and getting fucked by Lee Kuan Yew? Is it because only in Government can one constantly manipulate the conditions in one's favour? Maybe Mah Bow Tan is no genuine talented real estate tycoon after all. He need to operate under the PAP Mafia strong arm no protest tactics. Salut!

U are assuming that Mah BT came up with all this plan highlighted above? No, he is not that smart. The person who thought of this is an evil genius. Even Ng Teng Fong could not come up with a better plan.

 

[Zombie]

The govt. does print money but not in the literal sense. All govts do that, they just increase and decrease the money supply thru the various means they have at their disposal.

I think you are using this in the wrong context...

as if, whenever there is surplus hdb buying, the govt will print the extra money to lend... and whenever there is a a drop, the govt will reduce the money supply... as if we have monetary policy tied to hdb buyers...

anyway, i thought we only have fiscal policy..

 

[Zombie]

..however, there are many in SGP who are 35 and above, not married, earning more than SGD 3000 per month, want to buy 3 room flat,

No matter how much you earn, you can buy a 3 room flat from open market.

Income ceiling applies to the hdb grant/loan, and not the flat.

http://www.hdb.gov.sg/fi10/fi10321p.nsf/w/BuyResaleFlatSingleScheme?OpenDocument

http://www.hdb.gov.sg/fi10/fi10321p.nsf/w/BuyResaleFlatCPFGrantSingles?OpenDocument

 

[crazyhendrix]

One of the most mind blowing thread I've ever read. I learnt a lot today. Thanks to those who contributed to the discussion. Keep it going.

 

[lockeliberal]

The rest of the 2.5% goes to the gov because it has to pay the CPF board bondholders. Please refer to the HDB annual report 2008/2009. Of the total loans outstanding as of 2008/2009. 87.6% are low interest gov loans pegged to the CPF rate. or slightly lower by my estimation. Whilst I agree that the gov is paid for its loans, its cost of funds is not free as it cannot print money due to central bank and currency board requirements

Your question is how much does the HDB loan out at market versus the low interest rates ? Well the latest stats from 2008/2009 indicate that 2.5% of new flat buyers in bought flats under market rates and the vast majority bought flats under the HDB concession loan scheme.

How did u arrive at that over 10 billion figure not at sweet heart rate ? The total mortgage loan book from the gov outstanding is at 57.8 billion on the HDBs books ? comprised of two sorts both low interest at CPF and below Normal Mortage rates. Earlier reports if memory serves me indicated that over 40 billion was in fact at CPF rates. ?


Locke

 

[theDoors]

U are assuming that Mah BT came up with all this plan highlighted above? No, he is not that smart. The person who thought of this is an evil genius. Even Ng Teng Fong could not come up with a better plan.

Lai CF says the architect of this system is Goh Keng Swee.


http://www.findsingapore.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=112892&sid=76650712922d88117c2c3538ed075291
During the Booming 80s, all Singaporeans were clamoring to upgrade from a 700 sq. ft. 3-room to a 1,200 sq ft. 5-rooom.

To cater for the middle-class in the late-70s, HUDC was formed and 1,700 sq. ft. apartments at MArine PArade, Lake VIew, Braddell VIew, etc were sold at S$85,000.00.

And HDB introduced an intermediate executive apartments (income ceiling - S$10,000 pm) at about 1,500 sq. ft.

No aircond edges, no Civil Defence shelter, "pure" apartment space.

And in come DPM Goh CHok Tong and DHanabalan (MND Minister).

This Terrible Twin decided that HDB "car-parks' were under-priced and HDB dwellers must pay "the actual value of land".

And SIngapore is running out of land - and we must move to "densely packed" built-up environment - with Hougang and Bishan the "first model" in the 80s.

And (D)PM Goh CHok Tong said we will not be like Hong Kong living in "rabbit hutches".

Yes sirrah! SM Goh CHok Tong, you are sure correct and kept your "promise".

SIngaporeans indeed are not living in "rabbit hutches"; but are starting to live in "shoe boxes" and "car park lots".

And all these present malaise started in the late-70s when PM Lee Kuan Yew and Dr Goh Keng Swee started to re-structure SIngapore Eocnomy from labour intensive low-tech industries to capital intensive high-tech industries with the dictum that SIngapore workers must moved up the productivity, technological and skilled ladder in order not to compete against low-cost centres like China and India, as SIngapaore will not be able to compete against them in terms of "low costs".

And what do you know?

Come 21st Century and even our own NTUC Chief are emphasising on "cheaper, faster" blah blah SIngpaore workers to compete exactly agaisnt....what do you know again...CHinese, Indian, THai, Vietnamese, etc.

And so after 30-years of ramping up SIngapaore Economy to 1st World Standard and with property prices ramping up to beyond 1st World Level, we have an unique 21st Century SIngapore trend of "living to 1st World Cost & Standard of Living" on a "3rd World" salary.

And mind you, in Hong Kong, I was earning TWICE that in SIngapore for doing the same job in SIngapore.

The fundamental wrongness of today escalating HDB prices was frirst satrted in late-70s "Price to Market Value" policy basing on the assumption that SIngapore worekker salaries will reach 1st WOrld Standard to made them (expensive HDB flats) affordable.

And quite rightly so....as NWC then recommends double-digit increments then; such that majority of working class SIngpaoreans (dual family income averaging S$3,000 to $4,000 pm) can afford a HDB 5-room flat. which cost then S$199,000 in Bishan in the mid-80s.

Adn of course, 80s Recession put paid to all of them with theh cruellest cut of all when PM Goh CHok Tong then reduced CPF EMployer's contribution from 20% to 16%; and worse...CPF maximum rate cut from S$6,000 to S$4,500...and still droppping..

And in summary, the solution is really simple and PAP Government does not have the political courage to make this simple decision:

HDB prices need to be reduced instead of being artifically boosted by "Land costs" and construction costs must be subsidised like S$100 per sq ft ot capped at S$150 to S$200 per sq ft as maximum selling price to SIngaporeans.

But then like his father in the 50s, PM Lee Hsein Looong is riding a "Propery Bubble" TIger now.

Dismount wrongly, SIngapore will have its very own "sub-prime" crisis with falling property prices and ageing baby-boomers at one stroke losing their pension immediately...... for listening to mawbowtan that "your HDB price will appreciate in time..and you sell 'em to reap capital gain for youur retirement".

But to continue riding this "Property Bubble" Tiger....PM Lee?



And what happen if you fall off this "Property Bubble' Tiger, PM Lee; especialy if like DUbai, a sudden pull-out by 500,000 PR and foreign workers due to slooooow pick-up of SIngapore Economy?


Or worse, speculators and Foreign Funds pulling our of Singapore Property Market?



WHo will be left holding the can?

Those living in "shoe boxes" and "car park lots" - which in a SIngapore "Credit Crunch" Crisis lliterally come truth for many SIngaporeans!!!



WHat now HDB Prices - Rise or Fall?

 

[tonychat]

Dear PAP

You forget that the spread that HDB makes from the loan is in fact 0.1 per cent not the full 2.6%, the other 2.5% goes to the CPF board.




Locke

Hey sinkie loser lock,

You are an irritating loser. You show to us a major sinkie behavior, that is to point out others mistake instead of looking into yourself.

This is such a wholesome and educated thread and you come in to pollute in with your sinkie behavior.

You forget this, your argument has a flaw, you miss out one point. etc..

Knn.. if you are so fucking good, i do not see much of a contribution from you or any of your post of much help to others.

The only thing i see is that your sinkie polluting self is starting to show and your ego cannot help it that someone enlightened and smart is helping here, but you have no quality to do that.

PLs, as a guy, dun be so petty and jealous. Even a woman behave better than the sinkie you. What a disgrace!!!!

 

[SIFU]

Hey sinkie loser lock,



You forget this, your argument has a flaw, you miss out one point. etc..

Knn.. if you are so fucking good, i do not see much of a contribution from you or any of your post of much help to others.

QUOTE]

CB kia tonychat,

then where the fuck is your contribution to this forum:oIo::oIo:

KNNB, you only know how to glorify ladyboy sex and suck ladyboy's balls..:oIo:

 

[kingrant]

Good nugget you found with a one page chronicle of PAP's cul-de-sacs.

Maybe we shld let Mah win after all and let him be the brave one to dismount and cause a sub prime crisis. Then we get to throw out the whole bunch with a resounding vote.

Lai CF says the architect of this system is Goh Keng Swee.


http://www.findsingapore.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=112892&sid=76650712922d88117c2c3538ed075291
During the Booming 80s, all Singaporeans were clamoring to upgrade from a 700 sq. ft. 3-room to a 1,200 sq ft. 5-rooom.

To cater for the middle-class in the late-70s, HUDC was formed and 1,700 sq. ft. apartments at MArine PArade, Lake VIew, Braddell VIew, etc were sold at S$85,000.00.

And HDB introduced an intermediate executive apartments (income ceiling - S$10,000 pm) at about 1,500 sq. ft.

No aircond edges, no Civil Defence shelter, "pure" apartment space.

And in come DPM Goh CHok Tong and DHanabalan (MND Minister).

This Terrible Twin decided that HDB "car-parks' were under-priced and HDB dwellers must pay "the actual value of land".

And SIngapore is running out of land - and we must move to "densely packed" built-up environment - with Hougang and Bishan the "first model" in the 80s.

And (D)PM Goh CHok Tong said we will not be like Hong Kong living in "rabbit hutches".

Yes sirrah! SM Goh CHok Tong, you are sure correct and kept your "promise".

SIngaporeans indeed are not living in "rabbit hutches"; but are starting to live in "shoe boxes" and "car park lots".

And all these present malaise started in the late-70s when PM Lee Kuan Yew and Dr Goh Keng Swee started to re-structure SIngapore Eocnomy from labour intensive low-tech industries to capital intensive high-tech industries with the dictum that SIngapore workers must moved up the productivity, technological and skilled ladder in order not to compete against low-cost centres like China and India, as SIngapaore will not be able to compete against them in terms of "low costs".

And what do you know?

Come 21st Century and even our own NTUC Chief are emphasising on "cheaper, faster" blah blah SIngpaore workers to compete exactly agaisnt....what do you know again...CHinese, Indian, THai, Vietnamese, etc.

And so after 30-years of ramping up SIngapaore Economy to 1st World Standard and with property prices ramping up to beyond 1st World Level, we have an unique 21st Century SIngapore trend of "living to 1st World Cost & Standard of Living" on a "3rd World" salary.

And mind you, in Hong Kong, I was earning TWICE that in SIngapore for doing the same job in SIngapore.

The fundamental wrongness of today escalating HDB prices was frirst satrted in late-70s "Price to Market Value" policy basing on the assumption that SIngapore worekker salaries will reach 1st WOrld Standard to made them (expensive HDB flats) affordable.

And quite rightly so....as NWC then recommends double-digit increments then; such that majority of working class SIngpaoreans (dual family income averaging S$3,000 to $4,000 pm) can afford a HDB 5-room flat. which cost then S$199,000 in Bishan in the mid-80s.

Adn of course, 80s Recession put paid to all of them with theh cruellest cut of all when PM Goh CHok Tong then reduced CPF EMployer's contribution from 20% to 16%; and worse...CPF maximum rate cut from S$6,000 to S$4,500...and still droppping..

And in summary, the solution is really simple and PAP Government does not have the political courage to make this simple decision:

HDB prices need to be reduced instead of being artifically boosted by "Land costs" and construction costs must be subsidised like S$100 per sq ft ot capped at S$150 to S$200 per sq ft as maximum selling price to SIngaporeans.

But then like his father in the 50s, PM Lee Hsein Looong is riding a "Propery Bubble" TIger now.

Dismount wrongly, SIngapore will have its very own "sub-prime" crisis with falling property prices and ageing baby-boomers at one stroke losing their pension immediately...... for listening to mawbowtan that "your HDB price will appreciate in time..and you sell 'em to reap capital gain for youur retirement".

But to continue riding this "Property Bubble" Tiger....PM Lee?



And what happen if you fall off this "Property Bubble' Tiger, PM Lee; especialy if like DUbai, a sudden pull-out by 500,000 PR and foreign workers due to slooooow pick-up of SIngapore Economy?


Or worse, speculators and Foreign Funds pulling our of Singapore Property Market?



WHo will be left holding the can?

Those living in "shoe boxes" and "car park lots" - which in a SIngapore "Credit Crunch" Crisis lliterally come truth for many SIngaporeans!!!



WHat now HDB Prices - Rise or Fall?

 

[Sperminator]

No matter how much you earn, you can buy a 3 room flat from open market.

Income ceiling applies to the hdb grant/loan, and not the flat.

http://www.hdb.gov.sg/fi10/fi10321p.nsf/w/BuyResaleFlatSingleScheme?OpenDocument

http://www.hdb.gov.sg/fi10/fi10321p.nsf/w/BuyResaleFlatCPFGrantSingles?OpenDocument

Dear Zombie,

Thanks for pointing this out.

Yes, indeed the income ceiling applies to the HDB grant/loan, and why should a single 35 years and above Singaporean (male or female), should pay for a higher interest rate in the open market banks?

If I am not mistaken, due to the high "WORLD CLASS" Standard cost of living in Singapore, plus, Expesive Pigeon Holes, there are getting more and more Singaporeans who are not getting married, and arising more and more people in their mid 30s (35 and above).

What is wrong with not getting married? Its a personal choice (not like some whiny ST writers, Sumiko Tan).

And aren't these single people who choose not to get married, equally contributing to the Singapore Society, by providing their knowledge, and skill sets, earning a decent income like everyone else (married or not)?

Another fact to mention is that when you look around, there are no longer 3-room apartments (pigeon holes) being built, but all "upgraded" to at least 4-room apartments which is obviously more expensive...

So, the challenge is this; why restrict the single people, who are earning MORE than SGD 3,000 from buying a less expensive and smaller HDB apartment, in this case, 3-room, USING HDB LOANS (which is a right of Singaporeans?)

But were forced to use open market bank loans, which are obviously having a market rate interest rate?

You do the financial calculations, and tell me.

This is really penalizing Singaporeans who decide not to get married, but are just financially intelligent, that's all, and what's wrong with that?

And in the first place, for people who do not earn more than SGD 3,000 per month, they don't even want to think about buying a HDB flat!

See the irony and paradox that I've been trying to bring out?

So, I feel that the rules specified in HDB is penalizing the singles, 35 and above, earning more than SGD 3,000 per month! for not allowing them to have the HDB loans which is obviously lower... go look at the open market interest rates, and knock yourself out., and do a financial calculations with a property agent, and you will see it for yourself.

 

[Papsmearer]

Dear Zombie,

Thanks for pointing this out.

Yes, indeed the income ceiling applies to the HDB grant/loan, and why should a single 35 years and above Singaporean (male or female), should pay for a higher interest rate in the open market banks?

If I am not mistaken, due to the high "WORLD CLASS" Standard cost of living in Singapore, plus, Expesive Pigeon Holes, there are getting more and more Singaporeans who are not getting married, and arising more and more people in their mid 30s (35 and above).

What is wrong with not getting married? Its a personal choice (not like some whiny ST writers, Sumiko Tan).

And aren't these single people who choose not to get married, equally contributing to the Singapore Society, by providing their knowledge, and skill sets, earning a decent income like everyone else (married or not)?

Another fact to mention is that when you look around, there are no longer 3-room apartments (pigeon holes) being built, but all "upgraded" to at least 4-room apartments which is obviously more expensive...

So, the challenge is this; why restrict the single people, who are earning MORE than SGD 3,000 from buying a less expensive and smaller HDB apartment, in this case, 3-room, USING HDB LOANS (which is a right of Singaporeans?)

But were forced to use open market bank loans, which are obviously having a market rate interest rate?

You do the financial calculations, and tell me.

This is really penalizing Singaporeans who decide not to get married, but are just financially intelligent, that's all, and what's wrong with that?

And in the first place, for people who do not earn more than SGD 3,000 per month, they don't even want to think about buying a HDB flat!

See the irony and paradox that I've been trying to bring out?

So, I feel that the rules specified in HDB is penalizing the singles, 35 and above, earning more than SGD 3,000 per month! for not allowing them to have the HDB loans which is obviously lower... go look at the open market interest rates, and knock yourself out., and do a financial calculations with a property agent, and you will see it for yourself.

Actually Sperm, this is not penalising single Sinkies, but is a blessing in disguise for them. By making it much harder for them to buy a HDB flat, they are saved from falling into the Big Scam. Singles who earn more than $3000 need to be more creative in their housing needs. When u are squeezed on one side by the HDB and squeezed on the other side by high prices of private property, u need to go someplace else. If I were single and earning that much money, I would move to JB. For $250K ringgit, I can buy a very decent freehold property. Buy a cheap car. Take the bus across the causeway and transfer to MRT at Woodlands and commute to work every day. I have friends who have been doing this for 6 years. No problem with crime or the other stuff the Shit Times is always scaring people about. In todays tech age, one can work from home too and save a couple of days of commute. To be more productive, you can surf the Blackberry during the commute. Living in JB will easily save $1000 every month in lower mortgage payments, living expenses, etc. And the main point is that I can afford to live in JB on my take home pay, hence preserving my CPF.

300,000 Malaysians do this every day. Why not these sinkies? This solution is not for everyone, people with children will have to think about schooling, childcare, etc. But for singles, its turning a negative into a positive. Just my thoughts.

 

[Papsmearer]

Lai CF says the architect of this system is Goh Keng Swee.


http://www.findsingapore.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=112892&sid=76650712922d88117c2c3538ed075291


HDB prices need to be reduced instead of being artifically boosted by "Land costs" and construction costs must be subsidised like S$100 per sq ft ot capped at S$150 to S$200 per sq ft as maximum selling price to SIngaporeans.

?

I never heard of this CF Lai chap, but I think he is living in a fantasy world. It will be a cold day in hell before the PAP will reduce the price of a HDB flat and make life easier for Sinkies. They are in it to make max profits out of the people. Reducing the price of a HDB flat will also have a ripple effect by reducing the prices of private property and the prices of existing flats. This is political suicide for them.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

I never heard of this CF Lai chap, but I think he is living in a fantasy world. It will be a cold day in hell before the PAP will reduce the price of a HDB flat and make life easier for Sinkies. They are in it to make max profits out of the people. Reducing the price of a HDB flat will also have a ripple effect by reducing the prices of private property and the prices of existing flats. This is political suicide for them.

PAP is basically being trapped and fixed by their own policy.

Now they are trapped... whether to lower HDB prices, change rules etc... They are the prisoners of their own success in convincing people to use their CPF funds to buy flats.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[Zombie]

Dear Zombie,

Thanks for pointing this out.

Yes, indeed the income ceiling applies to the HDB grant/loan, and why should a single 35 years and above Singaporean (male or female), should pay for a higher interest rate in the open market banks?

If I am not mistaken, due to the high "WORLD CLASS" Standard cost of living in Singapore, plus, Expesive Pigeon Holes, there are getting more and more Singaporeans who are not getting married, and arising more and more people in their mid 30s (35 and above).

What is wrong with not getting married? Its a personal choice (not like some whiny ST writers, Sumiko Tan).

And aren't these single people who choose not to get married, equally contributing to the Singapore Society, by providing their knowledge, and skill sets, earning a decent income like everyone else (married or not)?

Another fact to mention is that when you look around, there are no longer 3-room apartments (pigeon holes) being built, but all "upgraded" to at least 4-room apartments which is obviously more expensive...

So, the challenge is this; why restrict the single people, who are earning MORE than SGD 3,000 from buying a less expensive and smaller HDB apartment, in this case, 3-room, USING HDB LOANS (which is a right of Singaporeans?)

But were forced to use open market bank loans, which are obviously having a market rate interest rate?

You do the financial calculations, and tell me.

This is really penalizing Singaporeans who decide not to get married, but are just financially intelligent, that's all, and what's wrong with that?

And in the first place, for people who do not earn more than SGD 3,000 per month, they don't even want to think about buying a HDB flat!

See the irony and paradox that I've been trying to bring out?

So, I feel that the rules specified in HDB is penalizing the singles, 35 and above, earning more than SGD 3,000 per month! for not allowing them to have the HDB loans which is obviously lower... go look at the open market interest rates, and knock yourself out., and do a financial calculations with a property agent, and you will see it for yourself.

$3k for singles is almost the same as $8k for a family (2 adults and on ave 1 kid)

no doubt unmarried person can bear children, but here no really count one har....

check the prices for the last 20 years.. no singles were allowed to buy hdb at the beginning... whenever hdb relaxed the rules, prices gone up significantly because "speculation" took place...

if the market is so open that almost anyone above the age can get in to stir-fried the market (esp those who got high disposable income) , then let them finance the activities with their own spare cash or by commercial funding...and restrict the grant/loan benefits for poorer people who got real basic needs....

too lazy to check typo

 

[Papsmearer]

Hey sinkie loser lock,

You are an irritating loser. You show to us a major sinkie behavior, that is to point out others mistake instead of looking into yourself.

This is such a wholesome and educated thread and you come in to pollute in with your sinkie behavior.

You forget this, your argument has a flaw, you miss out one point. etc..

Knn.. if you are so fucking good, i do not see much of a contribution from you or any of your post of much help to others.

The only thing i see is that your sinkie polluting self is starting to show and your ego cannot help it that someone enlightened and smart is helping here, but you have no quality to do that.

PLs, as a guy, dun be so petty and jealous. Even a woman behave better than the sinkie you. What a disgrace!!!!

Unfortunately, people like this Locke are quite common in Singapore and I suspect one of the 66% that voted for the PAP. He called my post a "diatribe". Hahaha. I spend quite a little time putting it together and figuring all the pieces, hardly a diatribe. Than he says I have a basic flaw in my argument, and brings up Hong Kong situation to prove his point. What a clown. I find that his style is similar to PAP style where the picture is deliberately made obtuse and murky while avoiding the core problem. Quoting other country's situation is so PAP.

 

[Papsmearer]

PAP is basically being trapped and fixed by their own policy.

Now they are trapped... whether to lower HDB prices, change rules etc... They are the prisoners of their own success in convincing people to use their CPF funds to buy flats.

Goh Meng Seng

Yes, fundamentally, I believe this point to be true. And I should have brought this up as another point that the PAP does not want you to know. Even if the PAP truly wants to reduce the prices and lower the cost of housing for new and potential tenants, the side effect will be so drastic. it will cause the collapse of the housing market in S'pore overnight. Why would people buy an existing resale flat at todays' prices, when they can wait for a drastically cheaper flat (if the HDB decides to really lower prices). Ditto for private properties. So, yes, the PAP is trapped by this high price situation they caused.

Also on this point, applicable to you, even if the PAP were overthrown at the next election, how would the incoming new oppo govt. help the people by lowering the housing costs? Very difficult for them to decrease HDB prices by a meaningful amount. They would also face a housing collapse and people will blame them as being less competent than the PAP even though the PAP was the one who caused it. If you think about it, even the rumour of HDB lowering the prices will have a bad effect on the housing market. In the end, its necessary, but I am not sure sinkies can take the medicine at all.

 

[SotongMee]

Ditto I also upz TS points, what this PAPsmearer wrote is solid.

I'm speechless... I just up your points.

 

[Papsmearer]

very good post PAPsmearer... I am left speechless after reading it. I think you are one of the few forummers that are able to see through AND write about the the practices of the PAP/HDB. Thanks for starting this thread.

Thank you, now don't get me started about NS, and elections, etc. LOL.

 

[Papsmearer]

Don't dilute arguments against the tyrannical PAP and its HDB with issues regarding whether it is a lease or ownership or rental. It is a poor argment with chances of very little headway.

Better to hone in on the major and intrinsic issues with the HDB -
poor planning and construction
poor and yet high maintenance
riiculous grant amount that is not a true subsidy
deliberately hiding information from the public and refusing to answer to sincere and honest questions regarding costs
now HDB seems duty-bound to cater to FTs housing needs at the expense of locals
abuse of the CPF funds by 'forcing' locals to use it for housing needs

Whether the HDB makes .1% or 2.6%, the money goes into the garment coffers. Remember, the HDB magically loses billions each year. The money goes to other other garment agencies.

Chao, you have brought up a good point that the HDB does not want people to know. Namely the poor construction and planning. This is especially noticeable in HDB flats build in the 70s, and 80s. they seem to be build on "stilts" versus private condos build in the same period. The quality of materials is definitely suspect and so is the workmanship as evidenced by many instances of windows falling out, leaking ceilings and what now. Now I am not an engineer by training, but I would venture to say that HDB flats have a build in obsolescence period that is substantially shorter than 99 years. If you look at 99 year old high rises in NY, they are build solid.