Govt loses "hundreds of millions" of dollars building public flats: Khaw

[halsey02]

Talk is cheap. Open the books and get a full audit done.

Joshua Benjamin J. had asked this question some years ago..what was the answer? Their accounting practices we all know best, right pocket to left pocket to back pockets to...& set up many $2 companies but belonging to the same "parent" & tell you that it cost millions to build.

Simple, do they have to tender for the land in which the flats are to be built?? many of the land belong to HDB & many have been transferred to SLA, right out, left IN...& now Cow says Left charge right for the land..etc

Is Cow a vegetarian...ommm

 

[Tuayapeh]

Joshua Benjamin J. had asked this question some years ago..what was the answer? Their accounting practices we all know best, right pocket to left pocket to back pockets to...& set up many $2 companies but belonging to the same "parent" & tell you that it cost millions to build.

Simple, do they have to tender for the land in which the flats are to be built?? many of the land belong to HDB & many have been transferred to SLA, right out, left IN...& now Cow says Left charge right for the land..etc

Is Cow a vegetarian...ommm

NBCCB if the HDB spends less of its time giving away free money to companies to Sim Lian etc then maybe those "missing" millions could be accounted for .... WTF is a pyublic inquiry into such practices when you need it ? Why is it sp special that sim lian be the only company which gets the "privilege" to build flats so that thwey can make free money for themselves thanks to the government?

WHY IS NOBODY ASKING THE QUESTIONS ABOUT SIM LIAN AND ALL THEIR MANY MILLIONS OF PROFITS???

 

[winners]

I would say this Mr Khaw is a very lousy liar. If he wants to lie, must also lie with better intelligence mah. Why?

Nowadays we can't help but notice that the HDB is recycling the same piece of land from their en-bloc acquisitions to build even taller blocks. We can see these in Toa Payoh, Teban Gardens, Clementi, The Pinnacle, to name but just only a few.

Previously, the blocks of flats in those areas were only 10 to 15 storeys high and with very large open-air carparks, which of course, is a waste of space. Based on that same piece of land area (together with the open-air carparks), which still belongs to the HDB, they are now building 40 to 50 storeys blocks with just 1 or 2 multi-storey carparks. So, the total proceeds which the HDB will receive from the sale of these taller blocks will inevitably be in multiples more as a result of the increased number of new flat units that can be built on that same piece of land. In addition, all those affected by the en-blocs are also not getting their replacement flats for free, but will still need to top up.

I would say this Mr Khaw is not honest in his assessment by saying that the HDB is losing money for every flat they build. My above examples are very clear-cut and I wonder how can he explain on this? At most, the HDB will only need between 10% and 15% to top up the lease with the SLA to its 99-years originality. And we all know that the selling price of new HDB flats are always much higher than their building costs. All these can be obtained from those contracts awarded by the private developers to their building contractors and SLA, be they the building costs or the lease top-up. So, how can Mr Khaw says the HDB is losing money? How to believe him?

 

[halsey02]

NBCCB if the HDB spends less of its time giving away free money to companies to Sim Lian etc then maybe those "missing" millions could be accounted for .... WTF is a pyublic inquiry into such practices when you need it ? Why is it sp special that sim lian be the only company which gets the "privilege" to build flats so that thwey can make free money for themselves thanks to the government?

WHY IS NOBODY ASKING THE QUESTIONS ABOUT SIM LIAN AND ALL THEIR MANY MILLIONS OF PROFITS???

"sim lian" is connected..in SINgapore, money, connection goes a long way...& remember join the Club's, RC, PA etc.. & don't don't forget, feed the poor with "MacDonalds', Abalone Porridge etc & get the wifey to join the taichi club, the karaoke sessions & the line dancers...you know what I mean..CONNECTION.

 

[garlic]

Khaw forgot one fundamental thing, all HDBs are leased to Sinkies.. it is like a 99 year loan, money exchanged for small space. Ownership is never transferred and sinkies dont own a thing....

 

[scroobal]

Bro, the accounting method used by this govt will always show a loss and thus the proverbial subsidy chestnut surfaces.

In nearly all countries, the taxes people pay goes to pay for the infrastructure - pipes, utilities, roads, bin centres, street lamps and common use areas. It is not charity by the govt. We paid for it. It came from the taxes.

Khaw clearly states that even reclamation work is factored in. This is shocking to say the least. And it is wrong. Except for land cost, he is on shaky ground.

Some years ago, a lady CEO in reply to a letter to the press wrote a disingenuous reply that was second only to Chan Sek Keong's a circle is a square argument. She never answered the question nor address the issues.

Also note that our Govt, Stat Board and public buildings and office are some of the best and expensive in comparison to many first world countries. Also look at the salaries. See the connection.

If the Chairman of Ho Bee (CCC chairman of Bradell) was asked to pay the same infrastructure cost for developing Sentosa Cove, he would not have made the margin that he did. Surely we can't be that silly.

I challenge this Govt to apply the same costing principles used for HDB on Sentosa Cove and get an independent accounting firm from outside this country to validate the figures. If what I am saying is untrue, they have nothing to fear.

Construction cost for BTO is about $120psf (for flat it self). Not included like,link walk way, play ground........
So do the math.
The Mr. Khaw said quite truth.But Citizen dont want to hear the truth.

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

Bro, the accounting method used by this govt will always show a loss and thus the proverbial subsidy chestnut surfaces.

( ... snip ... )

Khaw clearly states that even reclamation work is factored in. This is shocking to say the least. And it is wrong. Except for land cost, he is on shaky ground.

Spot on, I believe that's the heart of the issue as well. Government accounting is highly fudgy as a general rule. In HDB's case, if they are really making a loss, ask them to open their books to be audited by an independent, internationally recognized firm.

Paying for land is just the left hand transferring money to the right hand. Its nonsense. Once you start playing around with land costs, and then factoring into the accounts, you're basically playing the numbers manipulation game. It also appeared KBW was saying they factor all sorts of opportunity costs into the equation, which would not be the case for the accounts books of a private developer.

The real reason for sky high HDB prices is the past linkage to the resale market and foreigners being allowed access to the local property market. That's why prices went up so much since 2005. 2005 was the year they opened the floodgates to FTs. The correlation is undeniable.

Why doesn't KBW address this issue rather than make it look like HDB is sweet and innocent and could not have stopped the present situation from developing. Thoroughly disgusting.

 

[jw5]

Khaw clearly states that even reclamation work is factored in. This is shocking to say the least. And it is wrong. Except for land cost, he is on shaky ground.

Scroobal: "Khaw will not run."

LOL.

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

MRT you cannot add because MRT collect fare , so do the car park bcos HDB collect parking fee.
You need to add in drainage, landscaping, park, playground, walk way. If add in I consider BTO average cost will be about $150~$200/psf without land cost.

That is not logical. Surrounding infrastructure is not developed by HDB. The cost is borne by other govt agencies and departments. HDB only develops flats. Why should surrounding infrastructure costs be factored into BTO prices?

That in fact is what KBW is suggesting (see my previous post on opportunity costs - an incorrect term, but still, my point stands). And it is dead wrong. In fact it is dishonest.

 

[jw5]

That is not logical. Surrounding infrastructure is not developed by HDB. The cost is borne by other govt agencies and departments. HDB only develops flats. Why should surrounding infrastructure costs be factored into BTO prices?

That in fact is what KBW is suggesting (see my previous post on opportunity costs - an incorrect term, but still, my point stands). And it is dead wrong. In fact it is dishonest.

Way Off The Mark. LOL.

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

Way Off The Mark. LOL.

** post removed, so as to avoid being seen as responding to jw5 in any fashion whatsoever **

 

[The_Hypocrite]

Another point I want to bring up is I heard that only LKY law firm is allowed to to do transfer of ownership when HDB flat is sold on the open market,,hence earning LKY and Gang millions in transfer fees. Other law firms cannot do that,,,hence LKY law firm has the monopoly,,,if this is not corruption i dont know what is

Honestly..i am worried..if there is any reason to migrate..this is one of them.... an unclean book..

They never openly tell us what is the transfer pricing for the land they build the HDB on..?

If they claim HDB have been losing money building all the 900,000 flats to date, the amount of money lost must be
colossal... Nor wonder our former president Ong teng Cheong could not open the books.

 

[The_Hypocrite]

What khaw might do is lower the selling price but restrict who can buy,,or maybe still sell at this price but allow the people to get loan from HDB at 0% interest rate. that way they can still earn their millions and the people might be more appeased.

Khaw claims that an average HDB flat, ie 4-br, is 113k now and plans to bring it down to $81.6k (4X annual median salary). How many people have bought 4-br flat at $113k now? If they don't sell it at $113k now, how are they going to be able to sell at $81.6k?

 

[andyfisher]

this is the same chap who say his heart surgery cost $8 or something.

I dont think math is his forte.

 

[I_Hate_Pappies]

I said before, this shorty is one hell of a Motherfucker! :oIo: The late Ramseth would have agreed with me. Come on Ram, if you are "around", please go hunt this Motherfucking Fake Buddhist!

 

[ILovePAP]

All you people are so ungrateful. If not for PAP, ypu Losers will be loving in SLUMS with no fresh and clean water. You probably need to bathe from well water and suffer from cholera outbreak.

 

[halsey02]

Scroobal: "Khaw will not run."

LOL.

Must be the vegetables that he ate...he is a incorrigible liar!

 

[myfoot123]

That Khaw peh is trying to create a topic to side track the most imminent issues at hand which he can't handle - AIM saga. Don't fall into his trap.

 

[winnipegjets]

All you people are so ungrateful. If not for PAP, ypu Losers will be loving in SLUMS with no fresh and clean water. You probably need to bathe from well water and suffer from cholera outbreak.

The PAP gave us crumbs while taking the meat from us. For that, we have to be grateful?

 

[laksaboy]

IPreviously, the blocks of flats in those areas were only 10 to 15 storeys high and with very large open-air carparks, which of course, is a waste of space.

Open air carparks are not a waste of space. There is no space/land scarcity in Singapore if it had not been for the irrational lust for economic/population growth.

There should be more open spaces. There used to be more of them, especially open fields. Now even secondary forests are not spared. They're getting cut down, acre by acre.